WAY better top to bottom.. and they play a pretty good out of conference schedule.Please, the PAC 12 is not better than the Big 12. That is what you want to be true to make a point you wish to be true.
how so ? they had all the momentum on their side going into overtime. OU was on their heels and their backup QB was playing poorly. TCU made a great comeback to get to that point. patterson cheated his kids in my book.Patterson absolutely made the right call in going for 2.
I think it is. You overlook the extra game. the committee will not. Unless a schedule is miles better than another 12-1 beats 11-1, as it should.Beach, I don't know that your argument is all that clear cut.
Let's say ND wins Saturday, Nebraska beats Iowa, MSU beats PSU and then MSU beats Iowa. MSU would have wins over one-loss OSU, two-loss Iowa and three-loss Michigan. All three of those teams could have easily lost to Indiana, so I think that eliminates the "well ND could have easily lost to Virginia" argument (I know you aren't making that argument, but some have). ND would have wins over one-loss conference champ Navy, three loss possible conference champ Stanford, three-loss Pitt and three-loss Temple that hammered middle of the row BIG Penn St. Three of these teams (possibly four) would be ranked somewhere from 10 to 25 with Navy being ranked the highest.
Now throw in the fact that MSU lost to an average Nebraska team and ND lost by two points to the number 1 or 2 team in the country (assuming Clemson wins out) on the road and the argument for MSU over ND certainly is not a slam dunk.
if iowa loses to nebraska and beats mich st they'll enjoy their rose bowl trip. absolutely no shot of going to the playoff in that scenario. ahead of who ? iowa is the biggest paper tiger out there this side of the big 12.The B1G has 5 teams in the top 17 of the rankings. They also hold wins over Stanford & Oregon who thumped USC in the PAC 12(This is what ND wants to present as its case beating 4 loss USC and 3 loss Stanford). It is plain silly to try and argue a 1 loss conference champion whoever it is from the B1G does not belong and they will go even if it is Iowa losing to Nebraska and then beating MSU.
honestly beach i don't think the extra game is as big a factor as some make it out to be. it's the body of work.I think it is. You overlook the extra game. the
honestly beach i don't think the extra game is as big a factor as some make it out to be. it's the body of work.
Except the committee, rightly so IMO, doesn't give much respect to those Big12 teams. I think the committee looks at beating TCU and Baylor as good wins but not great. They look at their schedules and see a lot of points against some very awful opponents and they don't get any credit at all for those wins.I think Michigan states wins against Michigan, OSU and Iowa match up pretty well with ND's I think the extra game will matter in that case. I also can't see an undefeated Big 10 being left out. Your chance lie with the Big-12 which has no extra game. tonight should tell quite a bit. Unless you are out of the top four of Oklahoma is just one behind you, a Stanford win should put you in. remember Oklahoma has beaten a 9-2 TCU and a 9-1 Baylor this year. Beating a 10-1 Oklahoma State would be quite a resume boast.
i guess that would depend on how the committee views those wins. i for one think the big 12 is a paper tiger other than oklahoma. out of conference schedules are a joke and they just beat each other because they are all the same. up tempo offense and no defense to speak of. a lot of "talking heads " are saying that the one thing the committee is doing is discussing how they think specific teams would fare against each other. none of us know if that is true but if it is i think it hurts the big 12 a lot.I think Michigan states wins against Michigan, OSU and Iowa match up pretty well with ND's I think the extra game will matter in that case. I also can't see an undefeated Big 10 being left out. Your chance lie with the Big-12 which has no extra game. tonight should tell quite a bit. Unless you are out of the top four of Oklahoma is just one behind you, a Stanford win should put you in. remember Oklahoma has beaten a 9-2 TCU and a 9-1 Baylor this year. Beating a 10-1 Oklahoma State would be quite a resume boast.
Those are good points but the committee has ranked them pretty highly, certainly higher than Temple and Navy.i guess that would depend on how the committee views those wins. i for one think the big 12 is a paper tiger other than oklahoma. out of conference schedules are a joke and they just beat each other because they are all the same. up tempo offense and no defense to speak of. a lot of "talking heads " are saying that the one thing the committee is doing is discussing how they think specific teams would fare against each other. none of us know if that is true but if it is i think it hurts the big 12 a lot.
true. can't disagree there. i just think the more the big 12 plays each other the more exposed they get. i don't think it's a matter of them all being good i believe it's a matter of them all except maybe oklahoma being okay. we'll know more tonight.Those are good points but the committee has ranked them pretty highly, certainly higher than Temple and Navy.
Agree there is no way an undefeated Iowa is left out.I think Michigan states wins against Michigan, OSU and Iowa match up pretty well with ND's I think the extra game will matter in that case. I also can't see an undefeated Big 10 being left out. Your chance lie with the Big-12 which has no extra game. tonight should tell quite a bit. Unless you are out of the top four of Oklahoma is just one behind you, a Stanford win should put you in. remember Oklahoma has beaten a 9-2 TCU and a 9-1 Baylor this year. Beating a 10-1 Oklahoma State would be quite a resume boast.
i can't give too much credit to wins over teams that refuse to play defense.Agree there is no way an undefeated Iowa is left out.
Disagree that Ok win over TCU was fantastic given Boykin and Docson were out. Or that their win over Baylor who lost their QB the week before. Their best win will be over a healthy OkState at bedlam. Let's see.
I understand but isn't Nd's best win Navy? I mean wouldn't Vegas pick TCU and Baylor u=over Navy and Temple?Agree there is no way an undefeated Iowa is left out.
Disagree that Ok win over TCU was fantastic given Boykin and Docson were out. Or that their win over Baylor who lost their QB the week before. Their best win will be over a healthy OkState at bedlam. Let's see.
i understand that. in my opinion usc is a better team than all of the big 12 except maybe oklahoma records aside. the pac 12 is way better than the big 12.
i guess that would depend on how the committee views those wins. i for one think the big 12 is a paper tiger other than oklahoma. out of conference schedules are a joke and they just beat each other because they are all the same. up tempo offense and no defense to speak of. a lot of "talking heads " are saying that the one thing the committee is doing is discussing how they think specific teams would fare against each other. none of us know if that is true but if it is i think it hurts the big 12 a lot.
Yes but ND body of work. Navy Temple Pitt USC Clemson. Not just top win vs Top win.I understand but isn't Nd's best win Navy? I mean wouldn't Vegas pick TCU and Baylor u=over Navy and Temple?
How?
Yes but ND body of work. Navy Temple Pitt USC Clemson. Not just top win vs Top win.
I'm not sure what Vegas would make the Navy/TCU line at a neutral site but I know TCU and Baylor would get all they want from this Navy team. I see your point but TCU and Baylor now, without their QBs and injuries and lack of Defense may see Navy put 50 points up.
Again it's hard to gauge the B12 when they play No one out of conference. Id love to see Keenan Reynolds in a Big bowl game against one of these B12 fakers though.
Except the committee, rightly so IMO, doesn't give much respect to those Big12 teams. I think the committee looks at beating TCU and Baylor as good wins but not great. They look at their schedules and see a lot of points against some very awful opponents and they don't get any credit at all for those wins.
The Big12 will always struggle for respect until OkSt, Baylor and TCU each schedule at least 1 non-trash, non-conference opponent.
I understand but isn't Nd's best win Navy? I mean wouldn't Vegas pick TCU and Baylor u=over Navy and Temple?
Vegas has your mighty Iowa as a 1pt fav over Neb.I understand but isn't Nd's best win Navy? I mean wouldn't Vegas pick TCU and Baylor u=over Navy and Temple?
FWIW, Sagarin has the Big 12 second in average strength to the SEC
Of the 30 non-conference games that the B12 scheduled in 2015, the entire conference plays as many games (eight) against 1AA opponents as they do against fellow power conference foes. The entire league plays 8 power conference teams all year. Baylor, OSU and K state scheduled NO power conference foes in 2015.FWIW, Sagarin has the Big 12 second in average strength to the SEC.
Those two struggle this year to defend traditional offenses, can you imagine them trying to stop Navy? Yikes.I understand but isn't Nd's best win Navy? I mean wouldn't Vegas pick TCU and Baylor u=over Navy and Temple?
Vegas has your mighty Iowa as a 1pt fav over Neb.
Trying to find where I said Iowa was "mighty". Sometimes it is better to argue over things actually written. What I did write was that the committee would not leave out an undefeated Big 10 champ. If that were to happen it would mean they beat Nebraska and Michigan State which would improve their SOS dramatically. It is hard to understand how you could confuse that with saying that Iowa was "mighty".Vegas has your mighty Iowa as a 1pt fav over Neb.
Oklahoma lost by 1 score to their arch-rival, Texas. Beat TCU and Baylor. ND would have a real tough time beating these guts at this point.
The bottom line is that @oSu and @Stanford are a wash quality-win-wise, so if both OU and ND win out there wouldn't be movement without other teams losing. However, I could see Iowa losing to NU and then beating Sparty, putting us both in the playoffs.
Another bottom line: we could both lose this Saturday (Baker and Prosise are neither 100% to even play right now) and see each other in an inconsequential Fiesta Bowl (or wherever).
Remember I said if Iowa and Michigan State win Saturday THEN the winner of the championship game would get a spot.Beach, I don't know that your argument is all that clear cut.
Let's say ND wins Saturday, Nebraska beats Iowa, MSU beats PSU and then MSU beats Iowa. MSU would have wins over one-loss OSU, two-loss Iowa and three-loss Michigan. All three of those teams could have easily lost to Indiana, so I think that eliminates the "well ND could have easily lost to Virginia" argument (I know you aren't making that argument, but some have). ND would have wins over one-loss conference champ Navy, three loss possible conference champ Stanford, three-loss Pitt and three-loss Temple that hammered middle of the row BIG Penn St. Three of these teams (possibly four) would be ranked somewhere from 10 to 25 with Navy being ranked the highest.
Now throw in the fact that MSU lost to an average Nebraska team and ND lost by two points to the number 1 or 2 team in the country (assuming Clemson wins out) on the road and the argument for MSU over ND certainly is not a slam dunk.
huh ? they dominated the 4th quarter and the OU backup qb was totally ineffective. they did OU a favor.They were on the road and even though TCU had momentum OU is the better team. I think that's a good idea to go for 2 in those situations.
agreed. if nebraska wins saturday and then by some miracle iowa would win the big 10 championship game the big 10 will be left out.Remember I said if Iowa and Michigan State win Saturday THEN the winner of the championship game would get a spot.
agreed. if nebraska wins saturday and then by some miracle iowa would win the big 10 championship game the big 10 will be left out.