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No Way Oklahoma Is Ranked Ahead of ND!!!

Patterson absolutely made the right call in going for 2.
how so ? they had all the momentum on their side going into overtime. OU was on their heels and their backup QB was playing poorly. TCU made a great comeback to get to that point. patterson cheated his kids in my book.
 
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Beach, I don't know that your argument is all that clear cut.

Let's say ND wins Saturday, Nebraska beats Iowa, MSU beats PSU and then MSU beats Iowa. MSU would have wins over one-loss OSU, two-loss Iowa and three-loss Michigan. All three of those teams could have easily lost to Indiana, so I think that eliminates the "well ND could have easily lost to Virginia" argument (I know you aren't making that argument, but some have). ND would have wins over one-loss conference champ Navy, three loss possible conference champ Stanford, three-loss Pitt and three-loss Temple that hammered middle of the row BIG Penn St. Three of these teams (possibly four) would be ranked somewhere from 10 to 25 with Navy being ranked the highest.

Now throw in the fact that MSU lost to an average Nebraska team and ND lost by two points to the number 1 or 2 team in the country (assuming Clemson wins out) on the road and the argument for MSU over ND certainly is not a slam dunk.
I think it is. You overlook the extra game. the committee will not. Unless a schedule is miles better than another 12-1 beats 11-1, as it should.
 
The B1G has 5 teams in the top 17 of the rankings. They also hold wins over Stanford & Oregon who thumped USC in the PAC 12(This is what ND wants to present as its case beating 4 loss USC and 3 loss Stanford). It is plain silly to try and argue a 1 loss conference champion whoever it is from the B1G does not belong and they will go even if it is Iowa losing to Nebraska and then beating MSU.
if iowa loses to nebraska and beats mich st they'll enjoy their rose bowl trip. absolutely no shot of going to the playoff in that scenario. ahead of who ? iowa is the biggest paper tiger out there this side of the big 12.
 
I think the committee throws out the extra game when it is vs an FCS opponent.
USC and ND are the only teams that play only FBS schools. If either are 11-1 vs any other 12-1 PC school, (conference champs excluded) I think it's a wash in the eyes of the committee.
I don't think Bama gets credit for last Saturday scrimmage. In other words.
 
honestly beach i don't think the extra game is as big a factor as some make it out to be. it's the body of work.

I think Michigan states wins against Michigan, OSU and Iowa match up pretty well with ND's I think the extra game will matter in that case. I also can't see an undefeated Big 10 being left out. Your chance lie with the Big-12 which has no extra game. tonight should tell quite a bit. Unless you are out of the top four of Oklahoma is just one behind you, a Stanford win should put you in. remember Oklahoma has beaten a 9-2 TCU and a 9-1 Baylor this year. Beating a 10-1 Oklahoma State would be quite a resume boast.
 
I think Michigan states wins against Michigan, OSU and Iowa match up pretty well with ND's I think the extra game will matter in that case. I also can't see an undefeated Big 10 being left out. Your chance lie with the Big-12 which has no extra game. tonight should tell quite a bit. Unless you are out of the top four of Oklahoma is just one behind you, a Stanford win should put you in. remember Oklahoma has beaten a 9-2 TCU and a 9-1 Baylor this year. Beating a 10-1 Oklahoma State would be quite a resume boast.
Except the committee, rightly so IMO, doesn't give much respect to those Big12 teams. I think the committee looks at beating TCU and Baylor as good wins but not great. They look at their schedules and see a lot of points against some very awful opponents and they don't get any credit at all for those wins.

The Big12 will always struggle for respect until OkSt, Baylor and TCU each schedule at least 1 non-trash, non-conference opponent.
 
I think Michigan states wins against Michigan, OSU and Iowa match up pretty well with ND's I think the extra game will matter in that case. I also can't see an undefeated Big 10 being left out. Your chance lie with the Big-12 which has no extra game. tonight should tell quite a bit. Unless you are out of the top four of Oklahoma is just one behind you, a Stanford win should put you in. remember Oklahoma has beaten a 9-2 TCU and a 9-1 Baylor this year. Beating a 10-1 Oklahoma State would be quite a resume boast.
i guess that would depend on how the committee views those wins. i for one think the big 12 is a paper tiger other than oklahoma. out of conference schedules are a joke and they just beat each other because they are all the same. up tempo offense and no defense to speak of. a lot of "talking heads " are saying that the one thing the committee is doing is discussing how they think specific teams would fare against each other. none of us know if that is true but if it is i think it hurts the big 12 a lot.
 
i guess that would depend on how the committee views those wins. i for one think the big 12 is a paper tiger other than oklahoma. out of conference schedules are a joke and they just beat each other because they are all the same. up tempo offense and no defense to speak of. a lot of "talking heads " are saying that the one thing the committee is doing is discussing how they think specific teams would fare against each other. none of us know if that is true but if it is i think it hurts the big 12 a lot.
Those are good points but the committee has ranked them pretty highly, certainly higher than Temple and Navy.
 
Those are good points but the committee has ranked them pretty highly, certainly higher than Temple and Navy.
true. can't disagree there. i just think the more the big 12 plays each other the more exposed they get. i don't think it's a matter of them all being good i believe it's a matter of them all except maybe oklahoma being okay. we'll know more tonight.
 
I think Michigan states wins against Michigan, OSU and Iowa match up pretty well with ND's I think the extra game will matter in that case. I also can't see an undefeated Big 10 being left out. Your chance lie with the Big-12 which has no extra game. tonight should tell quite a bit. Unless you are out of the top four of Oklahoma is just one behind you, a Stanford win should put you in. remember Oklahoma has beaten a 9-2 TCU and a 9-1 Baylor this year. Beating a 10-1 Oklahoma State would be quite a resume boast.
Agree there is no way an undefeated Iowa is left out.
Disagree that Ok win over TCU was fantastic given Boykin and Docson were out. Or that their win over Baylor who lost their QB the week before. Their best win will be over a healthy OkState at bedlam. Let's see.
 
Agree there is no way an undefeated Iowa is left out.
Disagree that Ok win over TCU was fantastic given Boykin and Docson were out. Or that their win over Baylor who lost their QB the week before. Their best win will be over a healthy OkState at bedlam. Let's see.
i can't give too much credit to wins over teams that refuse to play defense.
 
Agree there is no way an undefeated Iowa is left out.
Disagree that Ok win over TCU was fantastic given Boykin and Docson were out. Or that their win over Baylor who lost their QB the week before. Their best win will be over a healthy OkState at bedlam. Let's see.
I understand but isn't Nd's best win Navy? I mean wouldn't Vegas pick TCU and Baylor u=over Navy and Temple?
 
I just don't agree with this whole acceptance by the CFB world that since the B12 intentionally backloaded their schedules to showcase their league (since they don't play a CC game), that they as a league are entitled to a representative in the Final four. They're all getting injured as soon as they started playing each other.
What if all four teams aren't that good/balanced? None of them play D except maybe OK.
 
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i understand that. in my opinion usc is a better team than all of the big 12 except maybe oklahoma records aside. the pac 12 is way better than the big 12.
i guess that would depend on how the committee views those wins. i for one think the big 12 is a paper tiger other than oklahoma. out of conference schedules are a joke and they just beat each other because they are all the same. up tempo offense and no defense to speak of. a lot of "talking heads " are saying that the one thing the committee is doing is discussing how they think specific teams would fare against each other. none of us know if that is true but if it is i think it hurts the big 12 a lot.

FWIW, Sagarin has the Big 12 second in average strength to the SEC.
 
I understand but isn't Nd's best win Navy? I mean wouldn't Vegas pick TCU and Baylor u=over Navy and Temple?
Yes but ND body of work. Navy Temple Pitt USC Clemson. Not just top win vs Top win.
I'm not sure what Vegas would make the Navy/TCU line at a neutral site but I know TCU and Baylor would get all they want from this Navy team. I see your point but TCU and Baylor now, without their QBs and injuries and lack of Defense may see Navy put 50 points up.
Again it's hard to gauge the B12 when they play No one out of conference. Id love to see Keenan Reynolds in a Big bowl game against one of these B12 fakers though.
 
Yes but ND body of work. Navy Temple Pitt USC Clemson. Not just top win vs Top win.
I'm not sure what Vegas would make the Navy/TCU line at a neutral site but I know TCU and Baylor would get all they want from this Navy team. I see your point but TCU and Baylor now, without their QBs and injuries and lack of Defense may see Navy put 50 points up.
Again it's hard to gauge the B12 when they play No one out of conference. Id love to see Keenan Reynolds in a Big bowl game against one of these B12 fakers though.

Everybody has a "body of work". And pretty much every contender has wins that match up very favorably vs Navy, Temple, Pitt and USC.
 
Except the committee, rightly so IMO, doesn't give much respect to those Big12 teams. I think the committee looks at beating TCU and Baylor as good wins but not great. They look at their schedules and see a lot of points against some very awful opponents and they don't get any credit at all for those wins.

The Big12 will always struggle for respect until OkSt, Baylor and TCU each schedule at least 1 non-trash, non-conference opponent.

TCU has Arkansas next year and a home and home with Ohio st. starting in 2018. Ok St. has Pitt next year and KSU has Stanford next year. Baylor has moved to get Duke on in 2017.
 
I understand but isn't Nd's best win Navy? I mean wouldn't Vegas pick TCU and Baylor u=over Navy and Temple?

Lets not use facts to destroy their case. You do not see any G5 champions in the playoffs nor will you probably ever but the ND case is built largely on 2 G5 victories.
 
FWIW, Sagarin has the Big 12 second in average strength to the SEC
FWIW, Sagarin has the Big 12 second in average strength to the SEC.
Of the 30 non-conference games that the B12 scheduled in 2015, the entire conference plays as many games (eight) against 1AA opponents as they do against fellow power conference foes. The entire league plays 8 power conference teams all year. Baylor, OSU and K state scheduled NO power conference foes in 2015.
The B12 % of games against fellow Power conference schools is the lowest (.267) of any league except the SEC (.196).
So with all due respect to Sagarin and his fancy algorithms, his SOS rankings "imply" a strength in the B12 that can't be determined from them playing anyone outside of their own conference.
 
I understand but isn't Nd's best win Navy? I mean wouldn't Vegas pick TCU and Baylor u=over Navy and Temple?
Those two struggle this year to defend traditional offenses, can you imagine them trying to stop Navy? Yikes.
 
I don't know what Vegas has to do with it, but even after last weekend they still have us as 4th most likely to win the NC.
 
Vegas has your mighty Iowa as a 1pt fav over Neb.
Trying to find where I said Iowa was "mighty". Sometimes it is better to argue over things actually written. What I did write was that the committee would not leave out an undefeated Big 10 champ. If that were to happen it would mean they beat Nebraska and Michigan State which would improve their SOS dramatically. It is hard to understand how you could confuse that with saying that Iowa was "mighty".
 
Oklahoma lost by 1 score to their arch-rival, Texas. Beat TCU and Baylor. ND would have a real tough time beating these guts at this point.
 
Oklahoma lost by 1 score to their arch-rival, Texas. Beat TCU and Baylor. ND would have a real tough time beating these guts at this point.

Their arch rival is probably going to finish 4-8. So what of its their rival? ND beat their arch rival by 10 and beat another rival (BC) who is just as bad as Texas.
 
Well...we were all wrong. Some for thinking the Irish would stay in the top four, other (like me) for thinking it would take a couple of weeks. However, a win over Stanford could put you right back in.
 
OU plays all FBS opponents. Ohio State next two years. Then UCLA. Then Nebraska and LSU. It does schedule Tulsa regularly but also plays at Houston in Sept. Not like Baylor scheduling.
 
The bottom line is that @oSu and @Stanford are a wash quality-win-wise, so if both OU and ND win out there wouldn't be movement without other teams losing. However, I could see Iowa losing to NU and then beating Sparty, putting us both in the playoffs.

Another bottom line: we could both lose this Saturday (Baker and Prosise are neither 100% to even play right now) and see each other in an inconsequential Fiesta Bowl (or wherever).
 
The bottom line is that @oSu and @Stanford are a wash quality-win-wise, so if both OU and ND win out there wouldn't be movement without other teams losing. However, I could see Iowa losing to NU and then beating Sparty, putting us both in the playoffs.

Another bottom line: we could both lose this Saturday (Baker and Prosise are neither 100% to even play right now) and see each other in an inconsequential Fiesta Bowl (or wherever).

I'd like to see ND and OU matchup. Kind of like a rubber match after they split the 2012 and 2013 games.
 
Me too. But prefer Ala. in the Cotton Bowl semifinal. Only one week to go. At least for OU and the Irish.
 
Beach, I don't know that your argument is all that clear cut.

Let's say ND wins Saturday, Nebraska beats Iowa, MSU beats PSU and then MSU beats Iowa. MSU would have wins over one-loss OSU, two-loss Iowa and three-loss Michigan. All three of those teams could have easily lost to Indiana, so I think that eliminates the "well ND could have easily lost to Virginia" argument (I know you aren't making that argument, but some have). ND would have wins over one-loss conference champ Navy, three loss possible conference champ Stanford, three-loss Pitt and three-loss Temple that hammered middle of the row BIG Penn St. Three of these teams (possibly four) would be ranked somewhere from 10 to 25 with Navy being ranked the highest.

Now throw in the fact that MSU lost to an average Nebraska team and ND lost by two points to the number 1 or 2 team in the country (assuming Clemson wins out) on the road and the argument for MSU over ND certainly is not a slam dunk.
Remember I said if Iowa and Michigan State win Saturday THEN the winner of the championship game would get a spot.
 
Remember I said if Iowa and Michigan State win Saturday THEN the winner of the championship game would get a spot.
agreed. if nebraska wins saturday and then by some miracle iowa would win the big 10 championship game the big 10 will be left out.
 
agreed. if nebraska wins saturday and then by some miracle iowa would win the big 10 championship game the big 10 will be left out.

I don't think if Iowa loses a close one to Nebraska they drop them down much farther than the 7 range, then when MSU beats PSU they are 3 or 4. If Iowa beats MSU that is the ammunition needed to put them back in the top 4.

Iowa beat Northwestern who beat Stanford. Iowa would have beaten MSU in this scenario who beat Oregon who beat Stanford & USC. Iowa has one more win than ND and won a conference championship with the best record(a conference with 5 teams in the top 17).

The B1G champion with 1 loss won't be knocked out.

ND has to hope for a OU loss.
 
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