ND didn’t sniff a point the last 41 minutes!!

[chaseball]

You think Buchner is in Stroud's league?

I think Buchner is really talented and would do some real damage with all of the factors in play that allow CJ Stroud at OSU to thrive.

e.g. having some 5+ WRs on the depth chart to throw to ranked in the top 50 overall in their respective recruiting classes (like CJ Stroud does) would be a good start

 

[Get Nasty]

Arm talent, arm strength, accuracy, athleticism is talent. Height is not

I know a lot of 6" 3" that cant throw a football 20 yards. Thats not talent

Like I said, moron

Ha ha ha …. You clearly have never played or coached sports

 

[mbd11]

You think Buchner is in Stroud's league?

I don’t know. He hasn’t played enough yet. But he’s a different style QB than Stroud. Better runner, but maybe not quite as good of a passer.

 

[Golson5]

Ha ha ha …. You clearly have never played or coached sports

You think height is talent. You are a moron

 

[mirer03]

We struggled vs fsu and Toledo due to freeman, oline, and Rees taking 6 weeks to make oline changes and realize zeke is terrible … here we go again with zeke and Lugg right behind him

Why are you even a Notre Dame fan? All you do is complain.

Let's put this in perspective. You want instant gratification with nothing but a fans eye vs a team of coaches making millions of dollars per year at their chosen profession (because they don't suck). You want them to disregard all of spring practice and summer workouts and make changes on the fly ...like that won't have negative consequences, which you would then bitch and complain about.

 

[Get Nasty]

You think height is talent. You are a moron

i didn't make up the saying you can't teach size and speed. Talent is god given ability, yes height is part of that, as is speed, arm strength.

 

[mbd11]

You think Buchner is in Stroud's league?

And if I had to make a comparison for Buchner with a college QB from the last 10 years, I'd go with Marcus Mariota. They have similar skill sets - dual threat.

Now Mariota won the Heisman and made the NCG. So that's a high bar to attain. But I think Buchner has a similar skill set. In Mariota's first season starting, he threw for 2677 yds and ran for 752.

 

[Get Nasty]

Why are you even a Notre Dame fan? All you do is complain.

Let's put this in perspective. You want instant gratification with nothing but a fans eye vs a team of coaches making millions of dollars per year at their chosen profession (because they don't suck). You want them to disregard all of spring practice and summer workouts and make changes on the fly ...like that won't have negative consequences, which you would then bitch and complain about.

At a point you must realize if a player does well in practice and earns starting spot but continues to struggle in games (3 years) they just aren't a gamer.

Coaches are stubborn at times due to exactly what you mention. Happened with zeke last year (took way too long to move him out), I hope it doesn't happen again this year.

It's not complaining, it's continuous improvement. What top athletes and coaches are always striving for and how I see ND because we aren't close to championship caliber especially on offense right now.

After a second look, Rees play calling wasn't great but it wasn't as bad as i originally thought. THe execution was absolutely terrible though, and Rees is responsible for execution of the offense. People didn't know where to get lined up, buchner made countless wrong reads, oline had no clue and didn't communicate (blown assignments), TEs looked clueless on who to block, rees didn't play tobias at all or any of the stud frosh on offense. Yeah his play calling was ok, but maybe his biggest issue is coaching, because the on field execution was lacking all over the offense. All this with 2 weeks specifically focused on the game plan and plays for OSU.

 

[Golson5]

i didn't make up the saying you can't teach size and speed. Talent is god given ability, yes height is part of that, as is speed, arm strength.

Being tall doesnt make you good at football. Plenty of tall guys out there who cant walk and chew gum at the same time.

And yes you can improve speed. And arm strength

 

[banmate6]

Being tall doesnt make you good at football. Plenty of tall guys out there who cant walk and chew gum at the same time.

And yes you can improve speed. And arm strength

To be sure, some physical attributes lend themselves to certain sports. Height matters in many football positions because taller often = stronger, arm length, lane coverage, which make a difference for, let's say, the lines.

Probably for QB too. More vision, angles, and time to parry defenses rushing at you. I agree everybody can improve all aspects of athleticism, but only by a certain %. So innate potential matters a lot.

The X factor, all things being equal, is sports IQ and psychology. To my earlier point, some are born with this, some develop it, but there is no substitute. Again, in my experience, the best certainly aren't academically focused in developing the necessary all round skills that translate into maximizing this swagger.

ND isn't getting enough of these kinds of athletes in depth. Hasn't since Holtz. Again, I am from Croatia and follow the NT soccer team. Know the game in and out. Know many players.

If you made these guys go to college, they never would have become world class soccer player in Chelsea, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, and Bayern.

 

[Golson5]

To be sure, some physical attributes lend themselves to certain sports. Height matters in many football positions because taller often = stronger, arm length, lane coverage, which make a difference for, let's say, the lines.

Probably for QB too. More vision, angles, and time to parry defenses rushing at you. I agree everybody can improve all aspects of athleticism, but only by a certain %. So innate potential matters a lot.

The X factor, all things being equal, is sports IQ and psychology. To my earlier point, some are born with this, some develop it, but there is no substitute. Again, in my experience, the best certainly aren't academically focused in developing the necessary all round skills that translate into maximizing this swagger.

ND isn't getting enough of these kinds of athletes in depth. Hasn't since Holtz. Again, I am from Croatia and follow the NT soccer team. Know the game in and out. Know many players.

If you made these guys go to college, they never would have become world class soccer player in Chelsea, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, and Bayern.

Yes being taller can definitely help. Its not a talent though

 

[IrishMike409]

It was so different watching under Holtz. He really won 2 NCs, as the gift to FSU was a farce. College football was even more corrupt than today.

I never felt out-manned by the opposition. I remember towards the end it got a little more difficult. I vividly remember Holtz on national media saying quickly he isn't getting the talent he used to...code speak for saying the academic standards are actually now being enforced and I cannot get the usual players.

Things have never been the same. As we discuss many times here, it got a lot worse. Much as I don't like CBK, I give credit where it is due: he got ND back to respectability, a top 5 - 15 team consistently. I feel this is the max a school like ND can do.

Like I keep saying, The Holtz days are never coming back until college football changes or ND does.

Holtz could run the ball, and largely control the entire game doing that. These ND teams don’t even attempt to run against the top teams (see GA game where we didn’t even try to run).

Same shit Saturday: couldn’t run. Couldn’t sustain a drive. tOSU eventually wore us down…..

 

[47WimanND]

Why can’t we run? With our OL and deep RB room, we should be able to lean on the run game.

OL did not get any push. I expected more from Heistand. Front 7 on D took the 2nd half off.

 

[4-4-3]

I think Buchner is really talented and would do some real damage with all of the factors in play that allow CJ Stroud at OSU to thrive.

e.g. having some 5+ WRs on the depth chart to throw to ranked in the top 50 overall in their respective recruiting classes (like CJ Stroud does) would be a good start

So, is that a YES or a MAYBE?

As for me, I'm far from certain he's in Stroud's league, but I will HEDGE MY BET until I see him play a) more and b) against another first-rate team.

Obviously, the play of the OL and WR group will also affect how he plays. Neither did well against OSU, particularly in the second half.

My sense of ND's offense after one game is that it's LESS THAN THE SUM OF ITS PARTS. Holtz always said that a team achieves its greatest degree of growth between games 1 and 2, so I'm eager to see what transpires on Saturday. Trouble is, I've no idea if Marshall is any good or not. And hence, no idea of whether or not they're an "appropriate" test-case opponent.

 

[4-4-3]

I don’t know. He hasn’t played enough yet. But he’s a different style QB than Stroud. Better runner, but maybe not quite as good of a passer.

I don't know either.

But Stroud seems to be a MIGHTY GOOD PASSER. Those two sideline throws may have won OSU that game. They were both on 3rd down, long-yardage plays. And pinpoint accurate.

Right now, I don't see Buchner making EITHER of those throws. So, if someone put a gun to my head, I'd go with Stroud as the better passer. He's also quick and great at extending the play. As for running upfield, there's no need. There are others to do that.

 

[4-4-3]

i didn't make up the saying you can't teach size and speed. Talent is god given ability, yes height is part of that, as is speed, arm st

And if I had to make a comparison for Buchner with a college QB from the last 10 years, I'd go with Marcus Mariota. They have similar skill sets - dual threat.

Now Mariota won the Heisman and made the NCG. So that's a high bar to attain. But I think Buchner has a similar skill set. In Mariota's first season starting, he threw for 2677 yds and ran for 752.

That seems fair. But Mariota was as smooth as silk. This may sound strange but to me there's a kind of HITCH in Buchner's entire game. And a certain stiffness. My fear is that he's a candidate for a major knee or ankle injury. He runs extremely upright, making him a very clear TARGET.

 

[tbonesays]

Holtz could run the ball, and largely control the entire game doing that. These ND teams don’t even attempt to run against the top teams (see GA game where we didn’t even try to run).

Same shit Saturday: couldn’t run. Couldn’t sustain a drive. tOSU eventually wore us down…..

If that scheme was all we had then we shouldn't really try running the ball. I saw about three variations of the inside zone and two of them seemed to be outnumbered where the ball was going.

 

[TheSodFather]

I don't know either.

But Stroud seems to be a MIGHTY GOOD PASSER. Those two sideline throws may have won OSU that game. They were both on 3rd down, long-yardage plays. And pinpoint accurate.

Right now, I don't see Buchner making EITHER of those throws. So, if someone put a gun to my head, I'd go with Stroud as the better passer. He's also quick and great at extending the play. As for running upfield, there's no need. There are others to do that.

We do recognize this is a comparison of a guy making his first college start and a consensus top 5 draft pick in the 2023 NFL draft, who is consistently mocked as the 1st or second player taken? Right??

If Buchner maximizes his potential he may never be that good, but would still be the best QB to suit up for ND in the last 5 years

 

[banmate6]

I don't know either.

But Stroud seems to be a MIGHTY GOOD PASSER. Those two sideline throws may have won OSU that game. They were both on 3rd down, long-yardage plays. And pinpoint accurate.

Right now, I don't see Buchner making EITHER of those throws. So, if someone put a gun to my head, I'd go with Stroud as the better passer. He's also quick and great at extending the play. As for running upfield, there's no need. There are others to do that.

I thought the same. Stroud showed exceptional talent and ability in those clutch plays. I didn't see that at all from Buchner, who seems like a serviceable but not exceptional QB.

 

[4-4-3]

We do recognize this is a comparison of a guy making his first college start and a consensus top 5 draft pick in the 2023 NFL draft, who is consistently mocked as the 1st or second player taken? Right??

If Buchner maximizes his potential he may never be that good, but would still be the best QB to suit up for ND in the last 5 years

I, for one, recognize all of that.

I'm simply talking EYE-TEST raw ability. I've seen more of Buchner than of Stroud. But Stroud has CLEARLY been more MEMORABLE. He "appears to be" a GRADE A TALENT.

Buchner seems good but still somewhere between QUIRKY and a PROJECT. Not denying INNATE ABILITY of a certain kind, but there's something that seems to me UNORTHODOX about him, and I simply don't know how that will TRANSLATE.

As for being the best ND QB in five years, that's not exactly the highest bar out there. And that's why I'm sizing him up against Stroud and the other premier QB's in the game.

To my eye, for instance, both the FSU and LSU QB's looked significantly more dynamic yesterday night.

One thing IS for certain. He's NOT Johnny Manziel who excelled from MOMENT ONE as a freshman. And yet Buchner gets talked about as someone TRULY SPECIAL.

I'm not there yet.

 

[TheSodFather]

I, for one, recognize all of that.

I'm simply talking EYE-TEST raw ability. I've seen more of Buchner than of Stroud. But Stroud has CLEARLY been more MEMORABLE. He "appears to be" a GRADE A TALENT.

Buchner seems good but still somewhere between QUIRKY and a PROJECT. Not denying INNATE ABILITY of a certain kind, but there's something that seems to me UNORTHODOX about him, and I simply don't know how that will TRANSLATE.

As for being the best ND QB in five years, that's not exactly the highest bar out there. And that's why I'm sizing him up against Stroud and the other premier QB's in the game.

To my eye, for instance, both the FSU and LSU QB's looked significantly more dynamic yesterday night.

One thing IS for certain. He's NOT Johnny Manziel who excelled from MOMENT ONE as a freshman. And yet Buchner gets talked about as someone TRULY SPECIAL.

I'm not there yet.

Johnny Manziel didn’t play as a true freshmam, he was a redshirt freshman. Even then he really didn’t begin to find himself until he hit the 1aa portion of the schedule.

If you wish to compare Buchner with Stroud I would suggest you compare the two at similar stages of their respective careers and revisit CJs game film from one of his first 3 games last season when their were massive questions as to if he could fill Just Fields shoes. Granted CJ had one of the most talented WR groups in college football history to help ease him into that rocky start.

 

[Get Nasty]

Johnny Manziel didn’t play as a true freshmam, he was a redshirt freshman. Even then he really didn’t begin to find himself until he hit the 1aa portion of the schedule.

If you wish to compare Buchner with Stroud I would suggest you compare the two at similar stages of their respective careers and revisit CJs game film from one of his first 3 games last season when their were massive questions as to if he could fill Just Fields shoes. Granted CJ had one of the most talented WR groups in college football history to help ease him into that rocky start.

Buchner will never be the passer stroud is, but he should be able to close the gap with his legs and the options that brings. Tommy has to utilize them though, he didn’t Saturday night other than a few plays.

 

[Rionegro]

I'm back for another season as my usual ND persona: a subway fan in his mid 50s who dreams of 1988 and Lou Holtz.

As always, I'll root for the Fighting Irish. But, I gotta say, yesterday again confirmed the Irish will never again win a NC in my lifetime. OSU slowly overpowered ND, just having too many better athletes in depth, especially offense.

Buchner looks like a good but not elite QB. I didn't see any elite play at skill positions. Tyree showed some flash and Estime was tough. But ND couldn't get a running game established, which was a hallmark of great teams back in the day...really of any great team today, especially the SEC guns.

The defense does look good. Kudos and a good on the recruiting. But obviously it's a game of units, offensive, defense, and special teams. Again, ND doesn't get elite QBs, running backs, and receivers anymore...well, tight ends are a different story.

ND leadership won't make academic accommodation whereas other schools do. That remains the decisive factor since the mid 1990s. I'll repeat what I've been saying posting here during the season for years: it would be a great social good for ND to have remedial academic paths so that the football can be top, preserving the academic brand.

But no. I guess the Priests won't allow it. Yes, I'm Catholic and graduated from a Jesuit university. I find this stand hypocritical but that's just my 2 cents.

I'll still follow and root for ND...in vain hopes of a miracle NC that I know rationally cannot happen anymore.

There’s plenty of academic accommodation. We have the same # of 5 star offers as Bama this year. Since 2015 we’ve offered more 5 stars then Clemson and virtually everyone else not named Bama or ga. Currently more top 300 kids committed then the entire PAC as a conference. We have easy majors for these guys, ( film and tv , lots of the guys seem to like that one), and virtually no STEM majors on the 2 deep. oh yeah and 200 tutors to hand hold. What exactly do you want the school to do?

 

[NDinNJ]

There’s plenty of academic accommodation. We have the same # of 5 star offers as Bama this year. Since 2015 we’ve offered more 5 stars then Clemson and virtually everyone else not named Bama or ga. Currently more top 300 kids committed then the entire PAC as a conference. We have easy majors for these guys, ( film and tv , lots of the guys seem to like that one), and virtually no STEM majors on the 2 deep. oh yeah and 200 tutors to hand hold. What exactly do you want the school to do?

It's going to take a few years. ND just stopped shopping down that different aisle and started shopping down every aisle. ND needs to continue to go after the elite athletes, and continue to have solid seasons. ND needs to breakthrough at some point and win a big game vs a top 5-10 team.

 

[4-4-3]

Johnny Manziel didn’t play as a true freshmam, he was a redshirt freshman. Even then he really didn’t begin to find himself until he hit the 1aa portion of the schedule.

If you wish to compare Buchner with Stroud I would suggest you compare the two at similar stages of their respective careers and revisit CJs game film from one of his first 3 games last season when their were massive questions as to if he could fill Just Fields shoes. Granted CJ had one of the most talented WR groups in college football history to help ease him into that rocky start.

Are you suggesting Tyler Buchner has Johnny Manziel level talent? If so, we saw no sign of it last year. Yes, the kid was good, but he's no Manziel. Or, on the basis of what I've seen, CJ Stroud.

And I'm talking purely CHOPS here. Which in a way is somewhat hard to evaluate as I see NOTHING PROTOTYPICAL in Buchner at all. To me, he's still in some ways a BLACK BOX. So, I'm by no means closing the book on him.

Still, I'm waiting to see, FIRST OF ALL, if he's anything more than, say, Brandon Wimbush level, i.e. serviceable and occasionally spectacular. Because that's, so far, the extent of what I've seen. And he did play a bit last year, so it's not that he's so RAW.

But, hey, let's see if he puts up Manziel's or Stroud's full first-year numbers. I'm not a better, but if I were, it's one I surely wouldn't take.

 

[sjb75]

Are you suggesting Tyler Buchner has Johnny Manziel level talent? If so, we saw no sign of it last year. Yes, the kid was good, but he's no Manziel. Or, on the basis of what I've seen, CJ Stroud.

And I'm talking purely CHOPS here. Which in a way is somewhat hard to evaluate as I see NOTHING PROTOTYPICAL in Buchner at all. To me, he's still in some ways a BLACK BOX. So, I'm by no means closing the book on him.

Still, I'm waiting to see, FIRST OF ALL, if he's anything more than, say, Brandon Wimbush level, i.e. serviceable and occasionally spectacular. Because that's, so far, the extent of what I've seen. And he did play a bit last year, so it's not that he's so RAW.

But, hey, let's see if he puts up Manziel's or Stroud's full first-year numbers. I'm not a better, but if I were, it's one I surely wouldn't take.

Advil, please.

 

[banmate6]

There’s plenty of academic accommodation. We have the same # of 5 star offers as Bama this year. Since 2015 we’ve offered more 5 stars then Clemson and virtually everyone else not named Bama or ga. Currently more top 300 kids committed then the entire PAC as a conference. We have easy majors for these guys, ( film and tv , lots of the guys seem to like that one), and virtually no STEM majors on the 2 deep. oh yeah and 200 tutors to hand hold. What exactly do you want the school to do?

Can you give any citations of this? I wouldn't mind revisiting the stats. Especially on how many 5 and 4 stars actually wind up playing. Especially skill positions.

ND actually puts enough players in the NFL. It just hasn't been the skill positions by and large. I'd guess OL represents well.

 

[4-4-3]

Can you give any citations of this? I wouldn't mind revisiting the stats. Especially on how many 5 and 4 stars actually wind up playing. Especially skill positions.

ND actually puts enough players in the NFL. It just hasn't been the skill positions by and large. I'd guess OL represents well.

From what I've read and been told by people who say or think they know, the offers to 5-stars are ROUTINELY HANDED OUT. Like trawling with a fishing net. Or flooding the zone.

It's like when a salesman calls on all of the BETTER COMPANIES in an industry yet realizes that few will actually bite as they're either on board with or headed to what they perceive as BETTER OFFERS.

One of the posters pointed out today that Alabama averages about 14 recruits a year from the top 100 whereas ND averages between 3 or 4.

Other things "being equal," there's your DIFFERENTIAL.

So, it's not about OFFERS. It's about ACCEPTANCES.

 

[ivan brunetti]

I don’t know. He hasn’t played enough yet. But he’s a different style QB than Stroud. Better runner, but maybe not quite as good of a passer.

Stroud is a Heisman frontrunner and will be a first round pick in the next draft. They aren't anywhere close.

 

[banmate6]

From what I've read and been told by people who say or think they know, the offers to 5-stars are ROUTINELY HANDED OUT. Like trawling with a fishing net. Or flooding the zone.

It's like when a salesman calls on all of the BETTER COMPANIES in an industry yet realizes that few will actually bite as they're either on board with or headed to what they perceive as BETTER OFFERS.

One of the posters pointed out today that Alabama averages about 14 recruits a year from the top 100 whereas ND averages between 3 or 4.

Other things "being equal," there's your DIFFERENTIAL.

So, it's not about OFFERS. It's about ACCEPTANCES.

This is exactly why I asked, to get clarity on the statistics mentioned. I was suspicious of the term offer. I agree that it comes down to how many top players are actually on the team, playing, and pan out to their rating.

Like I said to that poster, I get ND produces some NFL talent. But it's not like back in the day when Montana, Theismann, Tim Brown, Bettis, and so rampaged in college and the NFL.

Again, there are many fine posts. And I appreciate younger posters keeping the faith. But I'm like you, a bit jaded...and I think we both see the bigger picture of a very changed college football landscape and how ND won't accommodate it.

BTW: my ND and Stanford colleagues tell me there are no easy majors. And there is a higher minimum in GPA and test scores, You have to be fully matriculated. I recall Tim Tebow at FL took 1 class in his final year. I read he had a 3.4 GPA in a major averaging higher than this.

At my Jesuit college, I was a teaching assistant final year. I remember helping the basketball players. I also was friends with many of the soccer players. They had to all take the core curriculum. Even in an environment where my professors discouraged giving Ds and Fs, some did so bad there was no point...and so they dropped out, not least because having such a low GPA and being on the razor's edge was soul sucking.

I'd love to hear from some recent alumni here. I have a cousin who's son graduated ND 3 years ago and confirms the academic rigor.

 

[TheSodFather]

Are you suggesting Tyler Buchner has Johnny Manziel level talent? If so, we saw no sign of it last year. Yes, the kid was good, but he's no Manziel. Or, on the basis of what I've seen, CJ Stroud.

And I'm talking purely CHOPS here. Which in a way is somewhat hard to evaluate as I see NOTHING PROTOTYPICAL in Buchner at all. To me, he's still in some ways a BLACK BOX. So, I'm by no means closing the book on him.

Still, I'm waiting to see, FIRST OF ALL, if he's anything more than, say, Brandon Wimbush level, i.e. serviceable and occasionally spectacular. Because that's, so far, the extent of what I've seen. And he did play a bit last year, so it's not that he's so RAW.

But, hey, let's see if he puts up Manziel's or Stroud's full first-year numbers. I'm not a better, but if I were, it's one I surely wouldn't take.

I see him as more of a Marcus Mariotta or Taysom Hill comp. Manziel played with the benefit of the Kliff Kingsbury system and was also a couple years older than his class. I just don’t think Manziel was the talent you seem to

 

[Golson5]

I see him as more of a Marcus Mariotta or Taysom Hill comp. Manziel played with the benefit of the Kliff Kingsbury system and was also a couple years older than his class. I just don’t think Manziel was the talent you seem to

He was an amazing talent in college

 

[4-4-3]

This is exactly why I asked, to get clarity on the statistics mentioned. I was suspicious of the term offer. I agree that it comes down to how many top players are actually on the team, playing, and pan out to their rating.

Like I said to that poster, I get ND produces some NFL talent. But it's not like back in the day when Montana, Theismann, Tim Brown, Bettis, and so rampaged in college and the NFL.

Again, there are many fine posts. And I appreciate younger posters keeping the faith. But I'm like you, a bit jaded...and I think we both see the bigger picture of a very changed college football landscape and how ND won't accommodate it.

BTW: my ND and Stanford colleagues tell me there are no easy majors. And there is a higher minimum in GPA and test scores, You have to be fully matriculated. I recall Tim Tebow at FL took 1 class in his final year. I read he had a 3.4 GPA in a major averaging higher than this.

At my Jesuit college, I was a teaching assistant final year. I remember helping the basketball players. I also was friends with many of the soccer players. They had to all take the core curriculum. Even in an environment where my professors discouraged giving Ds and Fs, some did so bad there was no point...and so they dropped out, not least because having such a low GPA and being on the razor's edge was soul sucking.

I'd love to hear from some recent alumni here. I have a cousin who's son graduated ND 3 years ago and confirms the academic rigor.

I take your points and regret how many posters see any criticism of the way ND operates as some kind of disloyalty.

Some, it seems, consider CFB a function of ND rather than vice versa. To me, this is NUTS.

As for recruiting, there's no way you can choose from the same pool if you're selection basis retains some connection to academics.

At the moment, ND appears to have achieved a level of performance just below the dominant programs. Yet, even with Freeman, I don't see how ND goes from 3 or 4 top 100 recruits a cycle to Alabama's 14.

My take on Kelly is that he thought he was enough of an OFFENSIVE GURU to overcome this DEFICIT but found out, SADLY, that he wasn't and that ND would not cut him any slack.

Over the long run -- if there's to be a long run -- I don't see why Freeman would do any better given the REALITIES of RECRUITING MATH as per THE VERY BEST PLAYERS.

ND's shortcomings are STRUCTURAL.

 

[4-4-3]

I see him as more of a Marcus Mariotta or Taysom Hill comp. Manziel played with the benefit of the Kliff Kingsbury system and was also a couple years older than his class. I just don’t think Manziel was the talent you seem to

If Tyler Buchner ever has a game like this, will you question his talent as well?

Johnny Manziel Defeating Bama

Of course, people rave about Buchner now, and he's done NOTHING comparable, let alone against Alabama.

Or, as already demonstrated, OSU.

By the way, MANZIEL won the Heisman that year AS A FRESHMAN. Are you expecting Buchner to win the Heisman this year?

Here's Manziel's stats for the two years he played:


��

Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	TD	Int	Rtg	Att	Yds	Avg	TD
Season	Team	Passing	Rushing
Total	595	863	68.9	7,820	63	22	164.1	345	2,169	6.3	30
2012	Texas A&M	295	434	68.0	3,706	26	9	155.3	201	1,410	7.0	21
2013	Texas A&M	300	429	69.9	4,114	37	13	172.9	144	759	5.3	9
Source:[44]

The graph is misaligned, but with a little work you can decipher it.

In any event, are you expecting comparable numbers from Buchner?

If so, seems like a STRETCH to me.

 

[Get Nasty]

After re watching there definitely is opportunities for Rees to call a more creative game and make it easier to execute, especially in the second half. With that said, the biggest issue is less about play calling and more execution. That falls on Rees as well. We weren’t even close to executing on the opportunities we had in the second half.

it makes sense that it would be much easier to call a great play then to coach a team on how to execute it. That’s where his inexperience to me is coming in. The middle of the oline was an absolute train wreck all game and Rees kept Buchner in the pocket allowing the middle of the oline to wreck the passing game, and also had a lot of run plays up the gut that got wrecked due to IOl. Ohio states middle of their D line was a weakness last year, and I don’t think it’s great now, probably improved. I think we were just that bad with zeke and Lugg. Weakness on weakness and ours was worse. Much much worse. I don’t know how they can think zeke and Lugg are the right options If they can’t even communicate together.

 

[mbd11]

I take your points and regret how many posters see any criticism of the way ND operates as some kind of disloyalty.

Some, it seems, consider CFB a function of ND rather than vice versa. To me, this is NUTS.

As for recruiting, there's no way you can choose from the same pool if you're selection basis retains some connection to academics.

At the moment, ND appears to have achieved a level of performance just below the dominant programs. Yet, even with Freeman, I don't see how ND goes from 3 or 4 top 100 recruits a cycle to Alabama's 14.

My take on Kelly is that he thought he was enough of an OFFENSIVE GURU to overcome this DEFICIT but found out, SADLY, that he wasn't and that ND would not cut him any slack.

Over the long run -- if there's to be a long run -- I don't see why Freeman would do any better given the REALITIES of RECRUITING MATH as per THE VERY BEST PLAYERS.

ND's shortcomings are STRUCTURAL.

But Kelly's teams laid eggs in big games. I don't think the difference between Alabama and Clemson and ND was as big as the scores of some of those playoff games indicated.

Lou Holtz was a great motivator who was great at getting his teams up for big games. We're hoping Freeman takes after Lou more for that.

I thought our team looked up for the game Saturday and played really well in the 1st half. The problem was the offense sputtering out in the 2nd half. That's probably more on Rees than anyone. He got outcoached by Knowles in the 2nd half.

 

[d1042]

For a kid playing in a hostile environment in his first real game start in over 2 years TB responded with poise.
More so than some ND fans.

 

[TheSodFather]

If Tyler Buchner ever has a game like this, will you question his talent as well?

Johnny Manziel Defeating Bama

Of course, people rave about Buchner now, and he's done NOTHING comparable, let alone against Alabama.

Or, as already demonstrated, OSU.

By the way, MANZIEL won the Heisman that year AS A FRESHMAN. Are you expecting Buchner to win the Heisman this year?

Here's Manziel's stats for the two years he played:


��

Total	595	863	68.9	7,820	63	22	164.1	345	2,169	6.3	30
Season	Team	Passing	Rushing
Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	TD	Int	Rtg	Att	Yds	Avg	TD
2012	Texas A&M	295	434	68.0	3,706	26	9	155.3	201	1,410	7.0	21
2013	Texas A&M	300	429	69.9	4,114	37	13	172.9	144	759	5.3	9
Source:[44]

The graph is misaligned, but with a little work you can decipher it.

In any event, are you expecting comparable numbers from Buchner?

If so, seems like a STRETCH to me.

Just about every QB who played in the Mike Leach air raid in the early days put up video game number’s

Its was as much system as it was player

 

[4-4-3]

But Kelly's teams laid eggs in big games. I don't think the difference between Alabama and Clemson and ND was as big as the scores of some of those playoff games indicated.

Lou Holtz was a great motivator who was great at getting his teams up for big games. We're hoping Freeman takes after Lou more for that.

I thought our team looked up for the game Saturday and played really well in the 1st half. The problem was the offense sputtering out in the 2nd half. That's probably more on Rees than anyone. He got outcoached by Knowles in the 2nd half.

That's my point. Kelly overestimated what he could do at ND. There HAS BEEN that talent gap between ND and teams that go all the way.

Will that talent gap actually lessen with Freeman? I have no idea, but I doubt it if he doesn't win enough. We'll see.

ND did look better against OSU that they generally do against better teams, and I saw the game as similar to the two Georgia games when ND also played good squads at what appeared to be a higher level.

And yet, Freeman now is 0-2 againts two ranked teams. And so, THE BEAT GOES ON.

As for the OSU game, I think the final outcome was dictated by the fact that OSU realized IT COULD RUN ON ND and so it did. Plus, their D kicked in.

At crunch time their LINES were better on both sides of the ball.

 

[4-4-3]

Just about every QB who played in the Mike Leach air raid in the early days put up video game number’s

Its was as much system as it was player

MIke Leach was the head coach of Washington State in 2012 when Manziel won the Heisman at Texas A&M as a FRESHMAN. Beat out Manti Te'o. Mike Leach was NEVER the head coach of A&M, nor did he coach Manziel.

Manziel's success had nothing to do with Leach. The guy won the Heisman by putting up numbers and beating Alabama which then CRUSHED ND in the NC game. Along the way, Manziel ran for almost 1,500 yards. What system allowed him to do that? HIS OWN TALENT.

He threw for 26 TD's and ran for 21. That's not a SYSTEM, that's BALANCE.

Let's see how Buchner does. His freshman year has already passed, and I note he DIDN'T win the Heisman. Let's see if he wins it this year.