Earlier in the thread you said Hoge was going to be battling for the guard slot.
My changes on offense
- Thread starter hoopsstar12
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Being the best prospect doesn't mean that he'll turn out better than Zach Martin.
But when both Kelly and Heistand say that.....it means a lot.
You're simply off base with your assertions about Bars play last year and his potential. And trying to put a player like Hainsey ahead of him is foolish boarding on laughable.
Bars is the 2nd best OT prospect we have on campus right now, with Eichenberg being the only other OL at ND who has any level of hope of ever challenging Bars for an OT position.
(Lugg has the tools but is FAR to raw as a pass protector to have any hope of challenging Bars during their short shared tenure at ND)
That's just the way it is, straight from the coaches
I would expect Hoge to be in play at both the Center and Right Guard spots this off-season.
The staff has shown that they're mainly interested in finding the best 5 OLs and that they'll figure out a way to get those 5 players onto the field together afterwards.
(FWIW, I definitely think this is the correct way to do it)
Just because a guy is a great prospect it doean't mean he's a great player. The fact is that Alex Bars needs to play a hell a lot of better than he did last year (as does Mike McGlinchey) for ND's offense to meet the potential it has. Nobody is questioning that Bars has upside, but to act like he's accomplished jack shit at ND thus far would be completely overstating anything that he's accomplished.
You mentioned him in the same light as Stanley and Martin, not me. Bars has a long way to go in the consistancy to department before he's either of those players.
As for Hainsey, I don't think it's a reach to suggest that he has the makings of a dominant guard. So what that he's not a tackle? That doesn't change the upside at the position that he does play.
Bars has accoplished a lot already at ND, hell, he's won a starting spot on the OL as an underclassmen.
And you're wrong (again), it's not me that's mentioning Bars with the likely of Stanley, Martin, and McGlinchey.......that would be his own coaches
(calling him the best prospect they've ever coached, after coaching those guys)
Sorry buddy, you're just missing the boat on this one. The coaches see it. I see it.
It really doesn't matter that you don't see it.
Bars will continue to lock down an OT spot for as long as he's at ND (barring major injury) and then will move onto the NFL as a very quality OL
It's really quite simple.
Woahhhh... Huge difference between saying that a guy is going to the NFL vs talking about a guy in the same breath as the first OT taken in the NFL draft with a top 10 pick a year ago. As I said, I like Bars. He has a chance to be a really good one. That said, do I ever picture him being a top 10 NFL draft pick like Ronnie Stanley was? Not if he doesn't do a better job against edge rushers.
If Bars is the best OL Kelly and Hiestand have ever coached, he's a lock to become a 5 time Pro Bowler like 1st round pick Joe Staley. Or when he goes in the top 10 and is the first lineman off the board like Stanley was last year because he was so coveted, or when he goes 16th overall like Martin, despite being an interior OL and is All Pro in the NFL as a rookie.
Until then, we can argue circles around each other, and the only evidence we have is a single year of starting as a junior, when his team went 4-8, ND's running game regressed significantly, sack totals increased after Stanley's graduation and McGlinchey's move from right tackle to left tackle.
I only care about results. Based on your narrative about something Kelly said 3 years ago, you believe that Alex Bars is the best OL ND has had since Kelly's arrival. Also better than Joe Staley, a 5 time Pro Bowler and better than Olin Kreutz, the Chicago Bears 6 time pro bowl center who Hiestand coached with the Bears.
I sincerely hope you're correct on this one. Because If Alex Bars has as good of a senior season as Zack Martin (one in which he was borderline perfect), or out plays Joe Staley and Olin Kreutz, with 11 combined Pro Bowls, the right edge of ND's offensive line is likely in the hands of the best O lineman in all of college football. That would be awesome!
Sure. Personally I don't t think mcglinchey is a left tackle but right now he s the best they have there. The dropoff from Stanley was enormous.
Bars is ok., no more no less. If he s your worst starter your line is pretty good. If he s your best you re in trouble.
It's funny how you resort to hyperbole because you're no longer able to handle a discussion.
I said the Bars in a future NFL. That's me.
Kelly and Heistand, the coaches who see him (and their former prospects) every single day are the ones that put him in the discussion with Martin, Stanley, and McGlinchey.
So you're laughable rant isn't about my conclusions.....it's about theirs.
And no one said that he would be drafted higher than Stanley or have more Pro-Bowls than Martin.....just that he's a better OL prospect than either one was at the same point in their careers.
Additionally, he performed fairly well in his 1st full year as a starter, given the circumstances
(position change, coming off an injury, as a 1st Year starter)
That's why I pointed out that your criticisms were incorrect and not support by those that are actually in the "know"
Keep trying though buddy!
Bars will be an NFL draft pick, so I'd say you're understating by quite a bit.
Limit your phrasing to "rSo Bars, coming off an injury, in his 1st year starting" and then you're best/worst description at least comes close to holding water
Friendly wager that Alex grades out as the 3rd best OL on his own Oline in 2017?.. McGlinchey (despite his false starts last year) and Nelson are better players.
For the record, I don't need to resort to anything in order to have a football conversation with you. Ever.
You're the one suggesting that the kid is really good based on nothing but a year's worth of ok play, and some made by coaches that you then distant yourself from once someones poi ts out how premature those comments were and how far Alex is from being a starter in the NFL let alone pf the caliber of the players I listed.
I get your argument. Bars is an NFL Olineman. I'm not disagreeing that he has that upside... I simply think that Eich, Kraemer, Nelson, Hainsey and maybe even McGlinchey will be beter players during their career at ND.
You're the one bent out of shape about it. You a friend of the kid or something?
No. I just said it would t surprise me. saw liam live on more than one occasion. I believe his ceiling higher.
Friendly wager to the post I was responding to, obviously. Try to keep up buddy.
(in case your reading skills are still failing you, that would be "Eichenburg beating out Bars")
But you clearly need to rely on quite a bit to try and have a conversation, because this one is simply over your head
1. I pointed out what I claimed (Bars is an NFL caliber OL, and will continue to maintain his starting position as an OT on our OL, because of that quality)
2. I pointed out the positions of coaches who actually see each of these players on a daily basis
(Bars is the best OL prospect that Kelly and/or Heistand has ever coached, including Martin, Stanley, and McGlinchey)
3. I pointed out the reality of his play this year, especially relative to the sitaution, as a contrast to your inaccurate statements.
4. I simply laughed at your assertions that OLs that have never taken a CFB snap are better OLs than Bars
(though I love your current hedge of "may eventually develop into better players")
Like I said.....keep trying little buddy!!
The right side was below average last year. Nelson had a solid year. Everyone else was average at best. I expect significant improvement next year with some changes.
Oh please, you re not in IIO s league when it comes to the intricacies of the game. What s your pedigree ? I know his and its extensive and polished.
Glad that you realized the foolishness of your comment and are ready to publicly back off of it.
Quite wise.
Liam has a very high ceiling
But he has absolutely no chance at beating out Bars. Literally a 0% chance.
(his only hope his that Bars is removed from his path by an injury)
Eichenberg has a great ceiling, due to his fantastic frame, quality athleticism, and apparently strong mentality for the game.
But his lack of major CFB ready strength and technique will keep him from ever seriously competing with Bars, while both are at ND.
Eichenberg reminds me a lot of a Stanely or McGlinchey type of player (Lugg does as well).
Both have fantastic tools, but will need a little time to develop before showing all of that quality....and that time will keep him from ever unseating Bars
RG was terrible last year. It lacked quality play to start with, and then it was an injury-bugged turn-style.
The right side of the line should improve a ton by adding in a "now older" Kreamer, Hoge, or Ruhland at RG
Ahh yes the old:
"I can't counter what you're saying so 'Who the hell are you' argument"
Your ability to handle the discussion is really quite impressive.
What will you go with next?
I can list out the standard options for you:
1. "Shut up. I don't really care anyways"
2. "I was just trolling"
3. [Fail to respond to substantive comments, like a scared little girl]
I'm excited to see what you choose!
Decker-IIO's knowledge and expertise on this board is indisputable.
You really know your stuff too, but you're getting close to the line w the aggressive and personal messages. You guys could have a great great football convo. The quality levels on this board go up when guys like you are talking football.
FWIW- I remember Kelly and HH being really optimistic about Bars. Let's hope he's having a great and healthy off season.
You really know your stuff too, but you're getting close to the line w the aggressive and personal messages. You guys could have a great great football convo. The quality levels on this board go up when guys like you are talking football.
FWIW- I remember Kelly and HH being really optimistic about Bars. Let's hope he's having a great and healthy off season.
I just want to see our offensive line dominate. We have great talent and depth. No excuses. They should be bullies on the field
Totally agree. With Adams and Dex and the OL- we should be able to run up and down the field. Impose our will, bully people, and dominate in the trenches.
Julian Love is the best DB on the roster . He will start somewhere. IMO he should be a safety ... I hope Vaughn improves at CB because he is along athlete at 6-1 ... Crawford is a player but is he too damaged now ? ... My starting secondary goes like this :
SS Studstill/ Elliott
FS Love/ Robertson
CB Vaughn/ Pride
CB Crawford
SS Studstill/ Elliott
FS Love/ Robertson
CB Vaughn/ Pride
CB Crawford
I love Julian (pun intended). His hudl tape is unreal I had no idea how he wasn't a high 4 star. But yes I would no doubt start him at the other safety spot. Elliott doesn't make me confident at all. Maybe he will switch to safety but who knows
No way is JLove anything but a cover corner. Kid is another Bobby Taylor. He plays the run for TFL and has the speed to cover the best receiver. Move somebody else to safety.
Who do you have in mind moving to safety? I have 0 confidence in some guys on the roster being starters. Love played strong safety (along with corner and LB) in high school and tackled like a monster. If I'm the coach I put him at safety and have a starting backfield of Crawford Watkins/Vaughn at corner and Studstill Love at safety. I'd prefer Love at corner but that leaves a huge hole at safety. Although it doesn't look as of now he's moving but we both know things happen
Cover corners are rare and you dont move Neon Deion to safety. Kid was a frosh AA at corner. Are you related
to BVG?
to BVG?
I don't think he is a Bobby Taylor type of player physically. Taylot was a 6-1 rangy guy with great cover skills .. Love a a very versatile player . He can easily move to the FS position and make that a strength in the pass defense game. he can tackle well which makes him a perfect fit. I compare him more to a Mike Mitchell of the steelers then a Deon sanders . The coaches decisions will speak to our opinions . I really think the secondary over the middle has to be able to make plays ... break up passes etc. I don't see anyone on this roster right now based on last year able to do that.
we all expect the offense to carry the team; but, and there is always a but, what position or position group on the offense is so settled that we should expect dominance?
There is at least 1 new member of each position group. The offense may not gel right out of the gate.
We don't "need" maximum speed on offense.
We "need" help on defense. We "need" our defensive players to stay healthy.
Our problems are on the defensive side of the ball. Our offense is loaded and surely isn't hurting to the point where we'd steal defensive starters over to the offense.
Decker: "Bars is God!!"
Someone else with a dissenting opinion: "He's pretty good, but not that good"
Decker: [Flips out]
Psychotic much??
Someone else with a dissenting opinion: "He's pretty good, but not that good"
Decker: [Flips out]
Psychotic much??
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