More on ND's continuing (for a long time) independence

[NDSMC78]

I'll post whatever I like. If you don't like it, don't read it.

Notre Dame is a faux independent. Again, all your other sports are in a conference. Your bowl tie ins are through a conference. You have to play 5 games through a conference. If you were really "independent," then you wouldn't depend on a conference for all these things. So no, you aren't really independent. I get that Notre Dame wants to remain quasi-independent. That's fine. I'm just telling you it isn't real independence. Truth is the truth.

Look at any ACC football standings. You will not see ND there. Look at any listing of ACC football statistics. You will not see ND there. ND does not play an ACC 8 game schedule. ND does not play for the ACC championship. ND is not a member of the ACC for football. Period.

 

[Izo]

We are independent . We usually played Pitt ,Syracuse, and BC and sometimes a Miami before coming into the ACC in all sports but football . All we did was add 2 more ACC teams to our schedule . What really does it mean ? Again repeating myself,our position in the ACC allows us to continue scheduling USC, Navy ,Stanford and then go out and have 2 game series with Texas, Oklahoma. , Michigan State Michigan , and Georgia and maybe another SEC team, possibly Baylor , TCU.

 

[topdecktiger]

Look at any ACC football standings. You will not see ND there. Look at any listing of ACC football statistics. You will not see ND there. ND does not play an ACC 8 game schedule. ND does not play for the ACC championship. ND is not a member of the ACC for football. Period.

I didn't say you were a member of the ACC for football. I just said you aren't independent. Independents don't "depend" on a conference for anything. Notre Dame does.

We are independent . We usually played Pitt ,Syracuse, and BC and sometimes a Miami before coming into the ACC in all sports but football . All we did was add 2 more ACC teams to our schedule . What really does it mean ? Again repeating myself,our position in the ACC allows us to continue scheduling USC, Navy ,Stanford and then go out and have 2 game series with Texas, Oklahoma. , Michigan State Michigan , and Georgia and maybe another SEC team, possibly Baylor , TCU.

You aren't independent. You didn't add 2 more ACC games. You added 5 games that you are contractually obligated to play. That wasn't the case before. (By the way, Pitt and Syracuse were Big East teams when you usually played them. Same for Miami.)

You don't have your own bowl tie ins. Your other sports are part of a conference. You're contractually obligated to play 5 games with a conference. That's not the definition of "independent" at all. I understand you don't care. I'm just saying, Notre Dame's "independence" is more ceremonial than functional.

 

[11NCs]

I didn't say you were a member of the ACC for football. I just said you aren't independent. Independents don't "depend" on a conference for anything

You might want to spend some quiet time reflecting on why you are obsessed with defining ND's status. Obsession over trivial things is at best unhealthy.

 

[Izo]

Okay ,I agree .Semi,quasi independent . It doesn't make any difference . I do know that right now , Notre Dame has the ability to schedule some very good games with series against some Big 10 , Pac12, Big 12 , SEC teams .

I think Kelly is very confident that going outside the ACC we will have the players (2017 and 2018 recruits) to compete with the Michigans, Georgias ,etc

 

[NDSMC78]

I didn't say you were a member of the ACC for football. I just said you aren't independent. Independents don't "depend" on a conference for anything. Notre Dame does.



You aren't independent. You didn't add 2 more ACC games. You added 5 games that you are contractually obligated to play. That wasn't the case before. (By the way, Pitt and Syracuse were Big East teams when you usually played them. Same for Miami.)

You don't have your own bowl tie ins. Your other sports are part of a conference. You're contractually obligated to play 5 games with a conference. That's not the definition of "independent" at all. I understand you don't care. I'm just saying, Notre Dame's "independence" is more ceremonial than functional.

Yeah, we are. Whether you like it or not, we are.

 

[northvanole]

This is a weird argument. I stand by my earlier message which basically concludes that from a political and business perspective, ND is more independent now than it ever has been in its existence.

Prior to 1990, independent status was not considered unusual. In the 1980's, three independent schools won the football national championship (Miami, ND and Penn State) and another independent (FSU) was in the running towards the end of that decade. A team from a "smaller conference" also won in that decade - BYU. The NCAA controlled TV exposure until they lost the Supreme Court decision in 1984. Conference affiliation was not really needed until then, so independent status prior to that was not seen as unique.

In the 14 years of BCS era, ND was actually seen as a separate conference (to the anger of many, admittedly). The ND AD had as much voting power over the creation of the playoff as any conference commissioner. But the BCS also managed all the major bowls. Now the conferences do. The autonomy vote that created the P5, the contractual power of the conferences who arranged their deals with the Orange, Sugar and Rose, and the power of the playoff committee and its domination of members by the conferences has truly isolated ND in this version of the Game of Thrones. ND truly stands alone as the most unique and most independent of all college football teams. Its schedule and its collection of seemingly "permanent rivals" is irrelevant here. This sport is now led by the P5 commissioners and their power has been enhanced by the huge revenue streams they are now creating. ND has a great contract with NBC, but NBC is the most irrelevant network in all of college football. NBC does promote its ND relationship, but it has no other college football games being broadcast that can be used to advertise this relationship.

In the first ten years of being in the ACC, FSU fans hardly acknowledged that they were members. Our biggest games were out of conference. Our world has changed with these playoffs. Winning our division and our conference are critical and necessary steps to get to the playoff. Our paradigm has changed with the sport and the power of the conferences. Having Clemson in our division has only enhanced the perception of FSU. And the revenue wars have forced other ACC members to step up and higher better coaches. The "got the memo (finally)" that FSU and Clemson were not going to do all the heavy lifting and continue to share revenue equally.

But ND is truly independent. In college football, every game matters. But to a conference member, a conference game matters more. (That is why you are seeing more and more good OOC games being played early in the year). ND fans have no intermediate goals other than win every game. It has no ability to use a conference title to offset a regular season loss. And if you don't think that defines independence, then there is nothing more I can say.

 

[wny]

The fact is ND is INDEPENDENT. And has given up some of that football independence in order to accommodate the other sports. I believe ND would have preferred the "partial" arrangement with Big Ten but big ten was unwilling to accommodate a partial arrangement HOWEVER I SEE that change a coming. Hockey is the first toe in the door. Lacrosse may be next. The financial pressures are being felt by ALL TEAMS AND ALL CONFERENCES. NO MATTER HOW RICH BUSINESSES, corporations, individuals, and universities are they Always want more. It is the HUMAN CONDITION. So DOWN the road I can see the BIG TEN accepting a partial ND with ideally 2 West and two East teams per year playing ND. This is much better than ACC. 1)this really commits us to giving up one independent game per year. ( For many years we played THREE BIG 10 every year anyway) 2)ND was always blocked by the higher ups in big 10 (Mich paterno etc) who hated us. Like all things when you add more members, you add more voters, and less rigidity. I can easily see MD RUTGERS INDIANA PURDUE NEBRASKA ILLINOIS NORTHWESTERN MINN WISC and Iowa realizing the benefit of having FOUR MORE TRULY NATIONALLY TELEVISED GAMES PER YEAR. Games where their conference is watched in NYC WASH LA SF HST TAMPA MIAMI Atlanta and Not just Chicago and Midwest. The BIG TEN GIVES UP NOTHING. ND GIVES UP NOTHING. ND and BIG 10 BOTH BENEFIT. As an avid college football fan. As an avid ND football fan. This arrangement would be great. And bottom line with or without ACC or Big 10. 12-0 ND gets in to playoff EVERY YEAR. NO MATTER WHAT THE OTHER 120+ teams do.