Monty Williams fired

[Telx1]

You never had either as top 5 players in the league? Even when Harden was MVP and Luka the last 2 years? That's crazy

And so what is your Steph excuse because KD is still a much better defender than him right now

Who said never! Thought we were talking this season. Regardless, yes I thought KD was a top five player when he was at Oklahoma and The Warriors. He’d be at the end of my top ten today. But I’m not a basketball junkie that watches a ton of games. My opinion is based on seeing him play a dozen times or so this season. It is what it is.

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

He would never say it out loud. It's just the general expected reason. He got crushed for going to the warriors. He never got the respect for winning because it was way too easy. He wanted to and had to win on his own

The only guy excelling late in his 30s in basketball is Lebron and even he's not close to the defender he used to be

Steph and KD are the only others really excelling at 35 and Curry sure doesn't play D and he scores with the best of them too

If he never said it out loud, then the claim can't be made.

From where and whom did he NOT get respect for winning because it was too easy? He has always been respected as a great player. Even if he didn't get the respect, KD needs to pay no mind to any of those haters.

Nobody wins on their own. Every championship team needs 2-3 legit stars to win the title.

There have been many players who excelled into their 30s past and present. LeBron is not the only one.

Curry has never been expected to carry a big load on the defensive end. He's simply too small. To try to compare the expectations and capabilities of defensive play between KD and Curry is like trying to compare the swimming abilities of a shark and a goldfish. With that said, Curry is not a slouch on D either. He's known to get a few steals and disrupt the opposing offense. He's shown no signs of fading away from that, as he has aged.

 

[Golson5]

Who said never! Thought we were talking this season. Regardless, yes I thought KD was a top five player when he was at Oklahoma and The Warriors. He’d be at the end of my top ten today. But I’m not a basketball junkie that watches a ton of games. My opinion is based on seeing him play a dozen times or so this season. It is what it is.

No. That's why I brought up Garden because you said it's about defense. Harden Luka curry never played D

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

I remember him complaining that Steph got all the credit for their success and he was always number two. But in typical Durant fashion, he also said he didn’t need to be the number one guy to be happy. I think the move to Brooklyn to team with Harden and Irving was simply him thinking he would be happier playing with those guys than his Warrior teammates; and that he would be Viewed as instrumental to their success, rather than complimentary to the Warrior’s success. Didn’t work out very well.

Agreed for the most part. But my question for KD remains... is he more happy now?? I have my suspicions thats he's not.

 

[Golson5]

If he never said it out loud, then the claim can't be made.

From where and whom did he NOT get respect for winning because it was too easy? He has always been respected as a great player. Even if he didn't get the respect, KD needs to pay no mind to any of those haters.

Nobody wins on their own. Every championship team needs 2-3 legit stars to win the title.

There have been many players who excelled into their 30s past and present. LeBron is not the only one.

Curry has never been expected to carry a big load on the defensive end. He's simply too small. To try to compare the expectations and capabilities of defensive play between KD and Curry is like trying to compare the swimming abilities of a shark and a goldfish. With that said, Curry is not a slouch on D either. He's known to get a few steals and disrupt the opposing offense. He's shown no signs of fading away from that, as he has aged.

Most things aren't said out loud.... you rarely get the truth in words

Everyone said it. Im a fan of KD and I said it. Every talk show said it. The world said it. He joined a 73 win team.

He put himself in a cant lose situation. He went to one of the greatest teams ever and made them impossible to beat. It was said nonstop. I don't know where you were during that time?

Very rare for a player to excel at Durants age. He is 35. Over NBA history most players are done by this point. It's very rare to be elite at 35 and older. Very very rare

Curry is a below average defender at 6'3". Some of the best defenders in the nba were his size or smaller. Thats no excuse

 

[Golson5]

How are you comparing Steph and KD at this stage of their careers? One is the defending champ..It’s not close. You’re the only dude on the planet that thinks KD is a current Top 5 player.

They both got eliminated in the 2nd round and in their 6th game in the series. Both will be top 10 players going to next year. One may be ahead of the other by a rank or 2. They are very close by anyone who follows the league

Durant averaged 30ppg 7rpg 5apg this year and 56% shooting which is just ridiculous

Curry averaged 29ppg 6rpg 6apg on 49% shooting

And Durant is still the better defender even though his D isn't as good as it used to be.

 

[BGI User 756]

This is mostly a complaint forum for trolls like me, please don’t clutter the board with rational thought, it makes me mad

For sure!

 

[BGI User 756]

So do you ever consider Curry, Harden or Luka a top 5 player. Because he is still a better defender right now then they ever were.

Harden is not a current top 5 player

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

Most things aren't said out loud.... you rarely get the truth in words

Everyone said it. Im a fan of KD and I said it. Every talk show said it. The world said it. He joined a 73 win team.

He put himself in a cant lose situation. He went to one of the greatest teams ever and made them impossible to beat. It was said nonstop. I don't know where you were during that time?

Very rare for a player to excel at Durants age. He is 35. Over NBA history most players are done by this point. It's very rare to be elite at 35 and older. Very very rare

Curry is a below average defender at 6'3". Some of the best defenders in the nba were his size or smaller. Thats no excuse

My point remains, if he didn't say it. The claim can't be made. This is the frustration I have with many folks today. People inferring truth with lack of clear evidence.

As I also said, I don't know anyone that didn't respect KD during his time with the warriors for winning. That was the point I am replying to. He got 2 finals MVPs. You don't get that unless people respect you. Now did he get disrespect for joining the warriors? Sure. But that is not what we're talking about.

Rare to be elite at 35? Fine. I said nothing about guys being elite at 35 and older.

Who is a modern day NBA player that is considered an elite defender at 6'3" or smaller? Even if you list some guys, he is a different breed of a player and can't be compared to many other players. There is no one else like him. Just like he can't be compared to KD for defense. Compare them on offense fine but even then they're different in how they play the game. Curry changed the way the game is being played for better or worse.

 

[Golson5]

Harden is not a current top 5 player

No kidding....

 

[Golson5]

Harden is not a current top 5 player

No kidding.

My point remains, if he didn't say it. The claim can't be made. This is the frustration I have with many folks today. People inferring truth with lack of clear evidence.

As I also said, I don't know anyone that didn't respect KD during his time with the warriors for winning. That was the point I am replying to. He got 2 finals MVPs. You don't get that unless people respect you. Now did he get disrespect for joining the warriors? Sure. But that is not what we're talking about.

Rare to be elite at 35? Fine. I said nothing about guys being elite at 35 and older.

Who is a modern day NBA player that is considered an elite defender at 6'3" or smaller? Even if you list some guys, he is a different breed of a player and can't be compared to many other players. There is no one else like him. Just like he can't be compared to KD for defense. Compare them on offense fine but even then they're different in how they play the game. Curry changed the way the game is being played for better or worse.

The claim can sure be made

We were talking about why he left. He left because he wanted to win on his own. With his own team. He got destroyed for joining a stacked team that couldn't lose. That's a fact

You said late into their 30s. That is very very rare

Chris Paul is one of the best guard defenders ever and he's 6 feet tall

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

No kidding.

The claim can sure be made

We were talking about why he left. He left because he wanted to win on his own. With his own team. He got destroyed for joining a stacked team that couldn't lose. That's a fact

You said late into their 30s. That is very very rare

Chris Paul is one of the best guard defenders ever and he's 6 feet tall

The claim can be made without clear evidence and KD never having said that? I respectfully disagree. The claim may even be correct but the lack of evidence is still there. It's concerning to me that the claim can decisively be made without evidence. But that's the world we live in.

Yes, we did talk about why he left. However, I'm referring to the point that he never got respect for winning. That is what I am disagreeing with.

I said play well. Not that rare to find guys who play well into their 30s. The claim was made that it's rare to find guys who play elite. And I agreed with that.

Chris Paul is indeed a good example. Now here's my question. Who has more success overall? Curry by FAR. I don't see how you can compare the two and label Paul as someone nearly as good or as accomplished as Curry. His impact on the game is so big, that he doesn't need to worry about making an impact on defense as much as Paul does. That is my point, in which Curry is a different breed of player and I don't know anyone else out there like him.

 

[Golson5]

The claim can be made without clear evidence and KD never having said that? I respectfully disagree. The claim may even be correct but the lack of evidence is still there. It's concerning to me that the claim can decisively be made without evidence. But that's the world we live in.

Yes, we did talk about why he left. However, I'm referring to the point that he never got respect for winning. That is what I am disagreeing with.

I said play well. Not that rare to find guys who play well into their 30s. The claim was made that it's rare to find guys who play elite. And I agreed with that.

Chris Paul is indeed a good example. Now here's my question. Who has more success overall? Curry by FAR. I don't see how you can compare the two and label Paul as someone nearly as good or as accomplished as Curry. His impact on the game is so big, that he doesn't need to worry about making an impact on defense as much as Paul does. That is my point, in which Curry is a different breed of player and I don't know anyone else out there like him.

He never got the credit for winning there as he would have anywhere else. He got credit for winning but it's not the same. Just like Lebron. He gets more credit for his 1 ring with Cleveland than he does for his 2 in Miami.... this is according to most not everyone so relax.

KD is playing elite still. And like I said thats very rare. What he is doing is rare

Chris paul is not as great as Steph Curry. But he made the top 75 players ever. Will be 1st ballot HOF. And is one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game. His accomplishments are vast and historic

You said who is a great modern defender under 6'3" and one of the greatest pgs ever in his era is one of them so its very possible

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

He never got the credit for winning there as he would have anywhere else. He got credit for winning but it's not the same. Just like Lebron. He gets more credit for his 1 ring with Cleveland than he does for his 2 in Miami.... this is according to most not everyone so relax.

KD is playing elite still. And like I said thats very rare. What he is doing is rare

Chris paul is not as great as Steph Curry. But he made the top 75 players ever. Will be 1st ballot HOF. And is one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game. His accomplishments are vast and historic

Again with the claims. Where is this said? Where is this listed?

First off, where did KD win anywhere else? He didn't. He only won championships with Warriors. So the claim can't be that KD never got credit with Warriors and not anywhere else. However, Is KD somehow less respected as a basketball player overall when he was on GSW compared to OKC, Brooklyn, or Phoneix? He's been a formidable force anywhere he went. The point we arguing about is that he doesn't put up effort on defense like he did with the warriors.

I'm trying to focus on one topic at hand and during the conversation other players and claims keep getting thrown into the argument for what purpose?

Now LBJ is in the conversation. Completely different from KD being that he has won on multiple teams. But Okay, where is it said that he has more credit for his championship in Cleveland compared to his 2 in Miami? LBJ had 2 co-stars on both teams; Bosh and Wade and then Iriving and Love. So why would LBJ have more credit for winning in Cleveland than winning in Miami? I don't the logic and the need to keep adding more players and claims.

I already said Paul is very overrated and disliked player league-wide, so let's not go there. If he was that good, he never would've been a trade prospect.

 

[Golson5]

Again with the claims. Where is this said? Where is this listed?

First off, where did KD win anywhere else? He didn't. He only won championships with Warriors. So the claim can't be that KD never got credit with Warriors and not anywhere else. However, Is KD somehow less respected as a basketball player overall when he was on GSW compared to OKC, Brooklyn, or Phoneix? He's been a formidable force anywhere he went. The point we arguing about is that he doesn't put up effort on defense like he did with the warriors.

I'm trying to focus on one topic at hand and during the conversation other players and claims keep getting thrown into the argument for what purpose?

Now LBJ is in the conversation. Completely different from KD being that he has won on multiple teams. But Okay, where is it said that he has more credit for his championship in Cleveland compared to his 2 in Miami? LBJ had 2 co-stars on both teams; Bosh and Wade and then Iriving and Love. So why would LBJ have more credit for winning in Cleveland than winning in Miami? I don't the logic and the need to keep adding more players and claims.

I already said Paul is very overrated and disliked player league-wide, so let's not go there. If he was that good, he never would've been a trade prospect.

Chris Paul is one the best 40 players in NBa history and one of the 7 best point guards to ever breathe

And Like I said, everywhere. Everywhere. You don't follow the NBA much? Are you a casual? That's fine if you are but if you don't know where some of this is said it means you are a causal

Kevin garnett got traded. So did Durant. Harden. Russ. Anthony Davis. The list is long. Shaq

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

Chris Paul is one the best 40 players in NBa history and one of the 7 best point guards to ever breathe

And Like I said, everywhere. Everywhere. You don't follow the NBA much? Are you a casual? That's fine if you are but if you don't know where some of this is said it means you are a causal

Kevin garnett got traded. So did Durant. Harden. Russ. Anthony Davis. The list is long. Shaq

I dont know anyone else that puts Paul in such a category, but its a free country. Those guys you listed wanted to be traded. Not the same thing as Paul being up for trades multiple times in his career, which should prove my point that he is overrated.

Now we're nowhere near to what started this conversation. No response to my comments about KD. No response about LBJ, who was brought into the thread for no apparent reason. I'm lost as to where this conversation is supposed to be going.

 

[bizzybecknd]

They both got eliminated in the 2nd round and in their 6th game in the series. Both will be top 10 players going to next year. One may be ahead of the other by a rank or 2. They are very close by anyone who follows the league

Durant averaged 30ppg 7rpg 5apg this year and 56% shooting which is just ridiculous

Curry averaged 29ppg 6rpg 6apg on 49% shooting

And Durant is still the better defender even though his D isn't as good as it used to be.

Real stat gazer..I wonder if Chase can pull an algorithm on clutch statistics. One of these guys is clearly not like the other when it comes to winning. One had to hitch his wagon to a dynasty built by Steph to get a ring.

 

[sluggo69]

Wow, Monty got paid!!

 

[Golson5]

I dont know anyone else that puts Paul in such a category, but its a free country. Those guys you listed wanted to be traded. Not the same thing as Paul being up for trades multiple times in his career, which should prove my point that he is overrated.

Now we're nowhere near to what started this conversation. No response to my comments about KD. No response about LBJ, who was brought into the thread for no apparent reason. I'm lost as to where this conversation is supposed to be going.

Everyone puts Chris Paul there. He made the top 75 team and hes way above that. Hes made 12 all star teams. 11x all NBA. 9X ALL NBA defense. Rookie of the year. Hes 3rd all time in assists in NBA history.

Hes the Point God. Hes easy top 40

Who doesnt put him there?

 

[Kelso86]

I dont know anyone else that puts Paul in such a category, but its a free country. Those guys you listed wanted to be traded. Not the same thing as Paul being up for trades multiple times in his career, which should prove my point that he is overrated.

Now we're nowhere near to what started this conversation. No response to my comments about KD. No response about LBJ, who was brought into the thread for no apparent reason. I'm lost as to where this conversation is supposed to be going.

"Now we're nowhere near to what started this conversation."

LOL -- yea, the thread started off about Monty Williams getting fired, now it is talking about Chris Paul, KD ... lol

 

[Kelso86]

Chris Paul is one the best 40 players in NBa history and one of the 7 best point guards to ever breathe

And Like I said, everywhere. Everywhere. You don't follow the NBA much? Are you a casual? That's fine if you are but if you don't know where some of this is said it means you are a causal

Kevin garnett got traded. So did Durant. Harden. Russ. Anthony Davis. The list is long. Shaq

"Chris Paul is one the best 40 players in NBA history and one of the 7 best point guards to ever breathe"

LOL -- you have made some ridiculous statements, but his one ranks up there

 

[Golson5]

"Chris Paul is one the best 40 players in NBA history and one of the 7 best point guards to ever breathe"

LOL -- you have made some ridiculous statements, but his one ranks up there

If you dont think so, you don't follow the sport

12x all star
11x all NBA
9x All Defense
3rd all time is assists
3rd all time in steals
Rookie of the year

Nba member of the top 75 all time NBA list

The Athletic ranked him the 30th best player in NBA history

If you dont think he's at that level, you arent watching basketball. Hes is all time, all time great player. Offense and defense.

The 2nd best PG of his era. Easily one of the greatest to ever do it

 

[TDIrish27]

No doubt a Top 75 all time player.

Durant is done-----body has broken down----hurt all the time.

Horrible investment by Phoenix given his money.

 

[Golson5]

No doubt a Top 75 all time player.

Durant is done-----body has broken down----hurt all the time.

Horrible investment by Phoenix given his money.

Definitely not done. Not as good as when he was young, obviously. But not close to done

 

[francade]

No shot Chris Paul is top 40 all time. He may be top 10 point of all time but he’s nowhere near top 40 player of all time. That’s absurd. He’s never won shit and has played on good teams & he’s always hurt, especially in the playoffs. No way, no how he’s top 40 or even 75 of all time.

 

[Golson5]

No shot Chris Paul is top 40 all time. He may be top 10 point of all time but he’s nowhere near top 40 player of all time. That’s absurd. He’s never won shit and has played on good teams & he’s always hurt, especially in the playoffs. No way, no how he’s top 40 or even 75 of all time.

You dont have a clue 🤣🤣

You are sounding like a true dope with that comment

 

[Golson5]

No shot Chris Paul is top 40 all time. He may be top 10 point of all time but he’s nowhere near top 40 player of all time. That’s absurd. He’s never won shit and has played on good teams & he’s always hurt, especially in the playoffs. No way, no how he’s top 40 or even 75 of all time.

Stockton Malone Ewing Miller Iverson Anthony McGrady Nash Barkley Baylor Wilkins Harden Gervin

Just some great players who never won a ring

Thats 13 great players right there

Espn ranked him 40th.

The Athletic has him at 30

He's a definite top 40 player

 

[francade]

I didn’t say “never won a ring”, I said “never won shit”, which describes Paul, but not the ones you mentioned. Those players you mentioned got really close more than once, Paul never got close. You’re the dope, but I knew that a long time ago.

 

[Golson5]

I didn’t say “never won a ring”, I said “never won shit”, which describes Paul, but not the ones you mentioned. Those players you mentioned got really close more than once, Paul never got close. You’re the dope, but I knew that a long time ago.

Thats another incorrect statement 🤣

Chris Paul played in an NBA finals

Nash never did. Anthony never did. McGrady never did. Wilkins never did. Gervin never did.

Ewing played in 1. Iverson played in 1. Barkley played in 1. Miller played in 1. Harden played in 1

You have no clue about the nba

Wow you were so wrong about thar comment

🤣🤣🤣

 

[francade]

You’re right, I stand corrected, I forgot about the suns finals in ‘21. That doesn’t change the fact that he's laid eggs throughout his entire career when he’s been on good teams. He’s a top point guard but there’s no way in hell he’s a top 40 player of all time, regardless of what you, espn or the athletic says.

 

[mrwigglesby21]

Paul played most of his career in a loaded west and has very little footage in the conference finals or finals. He does have elite mid-range, passing, defense and IQ. Hamstring has really cost him in breakthrough moments (for his legacy) the last 4 or 5 years.

Magic, Curry, and Isiah I'd definitely put ahead. John Stockton too. Top 5-10 PG could certainly be argued. Top 40 player overall feels high. More like 46 -54.

Monty will do good things in Detroit. Big $$.