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Missouri players

I view this claim as nonsense. More people than ever before in our country's history enjoy the freedoms which only some had before. Minorities, women and gays have access to more rights and privileges than they had fifty years ago, or even ten years ago. Obviously, there are some who view this as "destroying the country" or "destroying our freedoms." I think this is a rather skewed way of approaching the subject.

I agree and disagree ! You are correct that the groups that you mention are certainly enjoying more freedoms then they ever had before.
On the other hand, Political Correctness is trying to silence people who
Have views that are not ” Politically Correct. "
In a really free society, all ideas should be discussed openly !
No shouting down speakers on college campuses ! No telling people
That they must do things that violate their conscience or religious
Believes. No tearing down our monuments because sone minority
Atheist finds offense in what the majority of Americans believe.
I really don’t want to have transgender people , with male body parts
In female locker rooms !
In short, all minority groups should have freedoms, but so should
All other Americans as well !
 
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P


This post is exactly right. The president of a university lost his job because students didn't want to be offended. Introduce racism and there was no debate, the president never had a chance. Never mind the facts trickling out hat there may not have been any evidence corroborating this.

Anyone find it strange that Missouri students feel unsafe due to racial tension, at a school where students of all races filled a stadium to support the first black gay athlete coming out? Are our memories that short?
The president had multiple chances and choose not to engage because he didn't believe he had to. Students on a general level outside of the team didn't know Sam was gay until after the season. He came out to everyone outside of his team at the same time
 
I agree and disagree ! You are correct that the groups that you mention are certainly enjoying more freedoms then they ever had before.
On the other hand, Political Correctness is trying to silence people who
Have views that are not ” Politically Correct. "
In a really free society, all ideas should be discussed openly !
No shouting down speakers on college campuses ! No telling people
That they must do things that violate their conscience or religious
Believes. No tearing down our monuments because sone minority
Atheist finds offense in what the majority of Americans believe.
I really don’t want to have transgender people , with male body parts
In female locker rooms !
In short, all minority groups should have freedoms, but so should
All other Americans as well !


Come on. Americans of all kinds have some freedoms. Some groups, as a general rule, have more freedoms than others. The idea that, because one group gets increasingly more benefits, there is a reductions in benefits to another group, doesn't make sense to me.
 
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Undergraduate Financial Aid
All scholarships and grants are awarded on the basis of demonstrated financial need.

# of undergraduates who received scholarships/grants from Yale sources: 2,847
% of undergraduates who received scholarships/grants from Yale sources: 52%
Average need-based scholarships/grants from all sources: $44,785
Average need-based scholarships/grants from Yale sources: $41,780
Range of individual scholarships/grants from Yale sources: $500- $64,900
 
Come on. Americans of all kinds have some freedoms. Some groups, as a general rule, have more freedoms than others. The idea that, because one group gets increasingly more benefits, there is a reductions in benefits to another group, doesn't make sense to me.

Makes no sense to me either, and it should not be happening !
 
Undergraduate Financial Aid
All scholarships and grants are awarded on the basis of demonstrated financial need.

# of undergraduates who received scholarships/grants from Yale sources: 2,847
% of undergraduates who received scholarships/grants from Yale sources: 52%
Average need-based scholarships/grants from all sources: $44,785
Average need-based scholarships/grants from Yale sources: $41,780
Range of individual scholarships/grants from Yale sources: $500- $64,900
Again why does being on Financial Aid make you point of view invalid?
 
Am I seeing this nonsense spill over to college teams? No. At the same time, universities should expect that when they give student-athletes a tremendous amount of leverage, those student-athletes are occasionally going to stumble on a way to utilize that leverage.

The fact that Missouri doesn't have a good record is irrelevant. If I made seven figures, I'd probably quit bitching about my taxes - but the fact that I don't doesn't mean that I don't have a good argument for bitching about them now.

Missouri would be in a lot worse shape if they kicked all of their minority football players off the team and fired Pinkel. It would be a PR disaster.

Father Hesburgh was, in everything I've come across, sensitive to the issues of racial injustice. He never would have put himself in the position that the Missouri administration did in the first place.

A younger Father Hesburgh is the white guy in the picture below. The other guy is pretty recognizable. It was taken the same year Father Hesburgh was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his work on the US Civil Rights Commission. I don't know if anyone here is wise enough to know how he'd respond to the Missouri issue, but I'd like to think he'd encourage us to inform ourselves with reason and act according to our conscience.

ccr02.jpg



“Be the kind of person who not only understands the injustices of this life, but is also willing to do something about them.”Father Hesburgh, in the 1986 Commencement address at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln
 
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How do any of those examples invalidate the suffering and persecution of others? I don't know why extreme cases of basic human rights violations are the only persecution that matters. Since when did we use the middle east, Africa or North Korea as the measuring stick for the correct way to treat people? You are essentially saying since your life isn't as bad as it would be if you were under the rule of ISIS you do not have a right to complain.

You asked me to define what real suffering is, and I did. It comes as no surprise that no matter what my answer would have been, it would have been unacceptable to you. Anyway, my heart isn't in this debate anymore watching what's going on in Paris right now.
 
The president had multiple chances and choose not to engage because he didn't believe he had to. Students on a general level outside of the team didn't know Sam was gay until after the season. He came out to everyone outside of his team at the same time
You don't have your facts straight and you aren't even reading these posts. The president handed the info over to the police to investigate (which they are finding no evidence of a poopsticka btw), the student on campus was suspended for his incident, and the last incident was off campus. He did everything within his power.
 
You don't have your facts straight and you aren't even reading these posts. The president handed the info over to the police to investigate (which they are finding no evidence of a poopsticka btw), the student on campus was suspended for his incident, and the last incident was off campus. He did everything within his power.

You might want to update your sources. The police report - stating the officer saw the swastika - and photos have been released. Most of the handful of media outlets that started the "no evidence" rhetoric have quietly updated their reports.

Yahoo Link
 
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You might want to update your sources. The police report - stating the officer saw the swastika - and photos have been released. Most of the handful of media outlets that started the "no evidence" rhetoric have quietly updated their reports.
Feel free to share your source on that, I haven't seen it but have seen it widely commented that there has been no evidence (edit: don't bother I searched and found). Again, the president did report the event to the police so regardless, he did his job so it doesn't change much. I can't believe we're wasting any more time on this with all that is going on. It's a tired subject.
 
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A younger Father Hesburgh is the white guy in the picture below. The other guy is pretty recognizable. It was taken the same year Father Hesburgh was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his work on the US Civil Rights Commission. I don't know if anyone here is wise enough to know how he'd respond to the Missouri issue, but I'd like to think he'd encourage us to inform ourselves with reason and act according to our conscience.

ccr02.jpg



“Be the kind of person who not only understands the injustices of this life, but is also willing to do something about them.”Father Hesburgh, in the 1986 Commencement address at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln
:cool:
 
Feel free to share your source on that, I haven't seen it but have seen it widely commented that there has been no evidence. Again, the president did report the event to the police so regardless, he did his job so it doesn't change much. I can't believe we're wasting any more time on this with all that is going on. It's a tired subject.

I added a link above. Feel free to use google too. That last thing this story needs is additional rumor and innuendo.
 
It's a tired subject but he wants to keep going at it. Focusing on singular reported events doesn't address the issue of purported systemic racism
 
1. That student who went on the hunger strike started the hunger strike after the calls to action were already being made by groups on campus so I don't believe you are getting your timeline right.

2. It doesn't do because he isn't talking about the student's political positions he is talking about the Professors'. In either case race here isn't being used to shut down opposition it is being used to address the opposition there is a difference. The student groups were saying that the administration was racists and therefore should be fired, rather their position was the administration doesn't do enough to address racism and therefore should be fired. In the first example racism is being used as a collateral attack against a position, in the second example a reference to racism is being used as the basis of a position.

1. No, my timeline is correct, and yours is wrong. Jonathan Butler (the one who went on the hunger strike) started protesting because he lost his insurance. That was the genesis of his beef. The ConcernedStudent1950 group has been around and has a general aim which has been around for sometime. What happened was that both sides got wind of each others' beefs, and it turned into a general protest.

2. Yes, race is being used to shut down opposition. Notice that the football players who disagreed with the boycott had to speak anonymously. They couldn't go on the record, because they would get tarred and feathered.

Regarding the president, race was used as a weapon by the protestors. Just because they claim the president didn't do enough to address racial issues doesn't mean it is so. That's what you don't get. Those students are not the arbiters of what is the correct reaction to racial issues. They can have their opinion, but their opinion is no more valid that anyone else's. They certainly are not the ones to judge in a case where people are being forced from their jobs.

As I said, the protestors used race as a weapon. They know that most people are deathly afraid of being labeled "racist," and will bend over backwards to avoid such label. That's why the president was pressured into resigning. He didn't do anything wrong, but was forced to leave anyway.

Again, how are you in a position to make that claim? Why are the examples provided the only way suffering/persecution exist in the world?

How are you in a position to make the opposite claim? You aren't there either. You don't know if the claims of the students are true. You just blindly accept the claims of the students without question. I don't. I don't give them a free pass because they are minorities. I judge each situation individually, based on the evidence. I don't go in with a bias for or against, as you do. I have looked at the reported evidence, and I see no evidence of "suffering" or "persecution" in this situation. I have seen evidence of a couple of random incidents that were properly dealt with by the university. I see some students who are politically motivated and are pushing for an agenda that has nothing to do with anything that can be deemed "suffering" or "persecution."

Because suffering and persecution are serious words. You don't use the words flippantly with spoiled college kids trying to buck authority. I'll give you one example of the so-called "suffering." One girl claimed that she was discriminated against because another student switched seat in class. He was sitting next to her, and he switched seats to the other side of the room. She said she "just knew" it was because of her skin color. Right. Because it couldn't have been anything else. It couldn't have been that the guy wanted to go sit next to his friends, or he wanted a better view of the blackboard, or the desk was uncomfortable. It "had" to be because he was this frothing racist who was so incensed at a girl's skin color that he just had to move away from her. Yeah, that was it. What's her remedy to this? Is she suggesting that the university call security and physically force the kid to sit beside her? How is this hurting her anyway? The kid didn't do anything to her. He didn't say anything to her. He didn't take anything from her. He didn't touch her. He sat at another desk. This is "suffering" and "persecution" now?

That's my problem here. It's gotten to the point that simply doing anything a minority person doesn't like is now "racist," and it's deemed "persecution." Sorry, no, it doesn't work that way.
 
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I agree and disagree ! You are correct that the groups that you mention are certainly enjoying more freedoms then they ever had before.
On the other hand, Political Correctness is trying to silence people who
Have views that are not ” Politically Correct. "
In a really free society, all ideas should be discussed openly !
No shouting down speakers on college campuses ! No telling people
That they must do things that violate their conscience or religious
Believes. No tearing down our monuments because sone minority
Atheist finds offense in what the majority of Americans believe.
I really don’t want to have transgender people , with male body parts
In female locker rooms !
In short, all minority groups should have freedoms, but so should
All other Americans as well !

AMEN!!!!! May God help Save Our Country.....and World!!!
 
1. No, my timeline is correct, and yours is wrong. Jonathan Butler (the one who went on the hunger strike) started protesting because he lost his insurance. That was the genesis of his beef. The ConcernedStudent1950 group has been around and has a general aim which has been around for sometime. What happened was that both sides got wind of each others' beefs, and it turned into a general protest.

2. Yes, race is being used to shut down opposition. Notice that the football players who disagreed with the boycott had to speak anonymously. They couldn't go on the record, because they would get tarred and feathered.

Regarding the president, race was used as a weapon by the protestors. Just because they claim the president didn't do enough to address racial issues doesn't mean it is so. That's what you don't get. Those students are not the arbiters of what is the correct reaction to racial issues. They can have their opinion, but their opinion is no more valid that anyone else's. They certainly are not the ones to judge in a case where people are being forced from their jobs.

As I said, the protestors used race as a weapon. They know that most people are deathly afraid of being labeled "racist," and will bend over backwards to avoid such label. That's why the president was pressured into resigning. He didn't do anything wrong, but was forced to leave anyway.



How are you in a position to make the opposite claim? You aren't there either. You don't know if the claims of the students are true. You just blindly accept the claims of the students without question. I don't. I don't give them a free pass because they are minorities. I judge each situation individually, based on the evidence. I don't go in with a bias for or against, as you do. I have looked at the reported evidence, and I see no evidence of "suffering" or "persecution" in this situation. I have seen evidence of a couple of random incidents that were properly dealt with by the university. I see some students who are politically motivated and are pushing for an agenda that has nothing to do with anything that can be deemed "suffering" or "persecution."

Because suffering and persecution are serious words. You don't use the words flippantly with spoiled college kids trying to buck authority. I'll give you one example of the so-called "suffering." One girl claimed that she was discriminated against because another student switched seat in class. He was sitting next to her, and he switched seats to the other side of the room. She said she "just knew" it was because of her skin color. Right. Because it couldn't have been anything else. It couldn't have been that the guy wanted to go sit next to his friends, or he wanted a better view of the blackboard, or the desk was uncomfortable. It "had" to be because he was this frothing racist who was so incensed at a girl's skin color that he just had to move away from her. Yeah, that was it. What's her remedy to this? Is she suggesting that the university call security and physically force the kid to sit beside her? How is this hurting her anyway? The kid didn't do anything to her. He didn't say anything to her. He didn't take anything from her. He didn't touch her. He sat at another desk. This is "suffering" and "persecution" now?

That's my problem here. It's gotten to the point that simply doing anything a minority person doesn't like is now "racist," and it's deemed "persecution." Sorry, no, it doesn't work that way.
Because we aren't working from a skepticism based framework? It is said that persecution isn't happening, I say how do examples of other persecutions mean it's not happening. Your response is to have me prove it is? The only way that makes sense is if we assume all premises are false until proven true.
 
Anyone else seeing this nonsense spill over to other college teams including ND? I truly believe the Missouri players should have forfeited their scholarships and the coach canned. Father Hesburgh would never have caved in to this extortion. I guarantee this would never have occurred if Missouri had a good record. So happy I am done paying tuition to schools that ill prepare their students by filling their heads with liberal nonsense.

My new favorite team is anyone playing Missouri.
 
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I heard Michael Sam will


The President deserved to lose his job. He was a spineless coward who would not fight for the truth.
Most colleges are bastions of far left wing ,politically correct ,crazed ideologys that shut down discussion and TRUTH !! May all these bastards BURN IN HELL !!!
You need to PC your way back to your cable news of preference!:D
 
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