bottom line is as a college coach brian kelly has achieved significantly more than jim harbaugh has . kelly has two losing seasons in 27 years. harbaugh has two in ten. kelly has national championships at a lower level, harbaugh has none. kelly has a MAC conference championship, a big east conference championship. harbaugh has yet to win a conference champioship at the FBS level. until he actually achieves something at the collegiate level harbaugh is what he is ,a middle of the road big ten coach.
Mich vs ND
- Thread starter Zorich 88
- Start date
no worse than it is now. cheating according to ncaa rules goes on everywhere . no school is immune from it. if schools chose to disband the ncaa or form a separate entity there would be a governing body in some form. the ncaa is antiquated.
i'm not qualified to answer that. all i'm saying is i believe the ncaa is antiquated. there has been lots of talk over the years of the power 5 schools seceding from the ncaa and starting their own organization. i'm pretty sure if it did happen there would be a governing body in place. would it be better ? dunno. don't see how it could possibly be worse.
The NCAA is IMO quite weak, because that is the way most member schools want it to be. That means they depend on schools cooperating with investigations. When schools refuse to cooperate, sometimes they get away with it (UNC, Miami, others); and sometimes, they don't (USC).
Unless you give a new governing body more powers over the schools, I don't see the point of making any move.
what a crock of sh!t !!! Who cares what the guy did at small time programs like GVSU, CMU or Cinci?
Brian Kelly is 48-34 at ND. That's a .584 win %. He is 5-4 in lousy bowl games. For reference, both Bob Davie and Ty Willingham had win %'s of .583 at ND.
Jim Harbaugh is 28-11 at Michigan with a .718 win % in what is clearly the toughest division in CFB (or at least top 2). Even if you take his 4 yrs at Stanford into consideration (in another Power 5 conference), he has a combined .640 win % and has an Orange Bowl win and Citrus Bowl win to his credit - both of which exceed anything Kelly has done in the Power 5.
Also worth noting that Harbaugh inherited a horrific Stanford team and a 5-7 Michigan team. It won't be much longer before every last one of you will be calling for Kelly's head on a platter.
So, if BK is such an average college HC, why you worrying about it? No one here gives a rat's behind about old khaki britches and you don't care about BK. What a monumental stand off.
Enjoy third or fourth place in your division again this year. Like I said Brian Kelly has achieved much more at the collegiate level than harbaugh. When he actually manages to win something at UM feel free to stop back and gloat. As of now you got nothin'.
It is not part of the official or real record in my mind. Chris Webber was cheat who made be ashamed to have rooted for him. If you are not an amature even an illusionary one, than the games were one in a crooked manner. My take is UM won nothing and no banner should ever be raised be it real or in my heart.
Wrong again.
The players were actually eligible when they played the games. That is the problem with the NCAA’s ruling & why it is being proposed for legal action in federal court.
The players were all in good academic standing during the season. It was later on after the season ND did an internal review & decided they were going to change their grades.
ND could literally change their grades back & the NCAA could do nothing to stop it & would then be forced to give the wins back.
But ND won’t do that because they have integrity.
Seriously, why are UM fans so dense?
We are discussing how good of Coach they are.
So actual performance of winning. ND won those games. He coached them. So his performance evaluation includes those games.
If a single player from every team over the past 50 years just stepped up & said they cheated once in college, does that mean the past 50 years of football never happened?
The games were never played?
I don’t think the UM fans even know what happened in the case & why the NCAA set two new precedents & basically set themselves up for lawsuits & loss of power.
A handful of ND athletes cheated with another student, who happened to work part time at the University. They weren’t a representative of ND or of the football program. They were a student, the same as if a student works in the cafeteria to pay bills. When those students get caught cheating, nobody refers to them as “University Employees.”
The NCAA had no idea anything even happened. ND did an internal review after the fact. The players were in good academic standing while they played so they were in fact eligible.
ND decided the students broke ethics’ rules & changed their grades from passing to failing after the investigation.
They then notified the NCAA.
The NCAA decides that the student was an “employee” & gave improper benefits to the athletes. The NCAA had never ruled that way before in its history.
Next, the NCAA, with no investigation of their own, took the results of ND’s & punished them. The NCAA had never ruled that way either.
So the NCAA just set the precedent that all students who work at a school are now employees the same as the coaches, professors, admin, etc.
The NCAA also set the precedent that if you do the right thing & punish students, investigate & report, they will punish you.
The NCAA also ruled that they legally have no right to tell schools how to hand out grades. (UNC case).
So ND can decide to change the grades back & the NCAA can’t stop them & would be forced to return wins.
A handful of ND athletes cheated with another student, who happened to work part time at the University. They weren’t a representative of ND or of the football program. They were a student, the same as if a student works in the cafeteria to pay bills. When those students get caught cheating, nobody refers to them as “University Employees.”
The NCAA had no idea anything even happened. ND did an internal review after the fact. The players were in good academic standing while they played so they were in fact eligible.
ND decided the students broke ethics’ rules & changed their grades from passing to failing after the investigation.
They then notified the NCAA.
The NCAA decides that the student was an “employee” & gave improper benefits to the athletes. The NCAA had never ruled that way before in its history.
Next, the NCAA, with no investigation of their own, took the results of ND’s & punished them. The NCAA had never ruled that way either.
So the NCAA just set the precedent that all students who work at a school are now employees the same as the coaches, professors, admin, etc.
The NCAA also set the precedent that if you do the right thing & punish students, investigate & report, they will punish you.
The NCAA also ruled that they legally have no right to tell schools how to hand out grades. (UNC case).
So ND can decide to change the grades back & the NCAA can’t stop them & would be forced to return wins.
I know that in both cases there were school fans who felt "we didn't do anything!".
ND players cheated. A university employee helped them cheat. The school found out about it and gave the players Fs. That meant they were ineligible by NCAA rules for games in which they participated. The standard punishment for teams that have ineligible players play in a won game is to have those wins vacated. That is what happened.
It doesn't matter if the employee who cheated "was also a student". It doesn't matter if "the NCAA wouldn't have found out without ND's help".
Good luck with suing the NCAA.
ND players cheated. A university employee helped them cheat. The school found out about it and gave the players Fs. That meant they were ineligible by NCAA rules for games in which they participated. The standard punishment for teams that have ineligible players play in a won game is to have those wins vacated. That is what happened.
It doesn't matter if the employee who cheated "was also a student". It doesn't matter if "the NCAA wouldn't have found out without ND's help".
Good luck with suing the NCAA.
Well, consider the lunacy of it all. Neither faculty, the student, the university, the team, the coaches, the janitor, nor the parking lot attendant, none at the time of the games being played were aware that the players would be having grades retroactively changed. Please just contemplate that. The extent of the lookback is lunacy. Only if people in the faculty or team were aware of wrongs should the retro aspect be so draconian.
There was no cover up.
This is almost too stupid to reply too.
USC coaches actually paid family members of USC players.
Actual coaches, knowingly paid players & families.
But yeah, it’s the same thing....
And a student who works in the cafeteria who goes to classes with other students isn’t considered an employee by Indiana State Tax law.
If you honestly think a student who works part time at the school to pay bills who works on HW assignments with other students (not just athletes) & did their HW for them is the same as a coach or professor changing grades, you are just being a troll. Period.
And another correction for you...
ND isn’t suing the NCAA.
An independent law firm in Chicago (where the federal district court is located) is exploring an injunction against the NCAA.
I know all that is too hard for you to understand, but maybe ask someone to explain it to you.
I don't think that is correct. When ND first held a press conference for this, they stated that if the NCAA chose to vacate games, they would go along with their decision.
It doesn't matter that there wasn't a cover up. An employee knew. Members of the team knew.
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