Mich vs ND

[Zorich 88]

I expect ND to RUN all over Michigan. The best part about this Michigan team is there defense. However, the defense (especially the run defense) is suspect to say the least.
I look for ND to rush for no less than 300yrds.
BW - 150
Dex & TJ combine for 175

31-21 ND

 

[deadirishpoet]

I expect ND to RUN all over Michigan. The best part about this Michigan team is there defense. However, the defense (especially the run defense) is suspect to say the least.
I look for ND to rush for no less than 300yrds.
BW - 150
Dex & TJ combine for 175

31-21 ND

Biggest game of the year. I can't wait. Good to see them back on the schedule.
I am hoping ND dominates winner usually go on to add very good season loser terrible one

 

[justified1]

If ND losses this game notredame.forums.rivals would make more $ by having an online licensed psychologist available for fans.

 

[zonairish]

If ND losses this game notredame.forums.rivals would make more $ by having an online licensed psychologist available for fans.

They do it is called a bottle of bourbon

 

[5870]

Zorich 88, I'll take you up on the over 300 yards rushing against Mich. How about $ 100.

 

[NDAFArly]

I expect ND to RUN all over Michigan. The best part about this Michigan team is there defense. However, the defense (especially the run defense) is suspect to say the least.
I look for ND to rush for no less than 300yrds.
BW - 150
Dex & TJ combine for 175

31-21 ND

Don’t think Dex will be rushing for any yards in that game.

 

[Toby Smart]

Don’t think Dex will be rushing for any yards in that game.

Is it confirmed official that Dex will not play or internet chatter?

 

[NDAFArly]

Is it confirmed official that Dex will not play or internet chatter?

This is from the mods:


1.BGI directly asked whether the rumors about senior running back Dexter Williams being on suspension and possibly even missing the first four games this season (a la now dismissed receiver Kevin Stepherson in 2017) can be confirmed or denied by either Kelly or the University.

“I don’t get into those things specific to individuals,” Kelly replied. “With every player there are some privacy issues that we want to protect with them. I can tell you that he’s on our football team and actively going through all workouts.”

 

[Pennick44]

I expect ND to RUN all over Michigan. The best part about this Michigan team is there defense. However, the defense (especially the run defense) is suspect to say the least.
I look for ND to rush for no less than 300yrds.
BW - 150
Dex & TJ combine for 175

31-21 ND

There was some scuttlebutt on another message board recently that he may not even be on the team next year. Who knows?

 

[NDAFArly]

There was some scuttlebutt on another message board recently that he may not even be on the team next year. Who knows?

Who, Dex?
This is his last year of eligibility, so he won’t be on any college team next year.
This year he is on the team & practicing every day. Just like all players do even if suspended. On dismissed players can’t practice.

 

[Pennick44]

Who, Dex?
This is his last year of eligibility, so he won’t be on any college team next year.
This year he is on the team & practicing every day. Just like all players do even if suspended. On dismissed players can’t practice.

This coming season.

 

[echowaker]

Who, Dex?
This is his last year of eligibility, so he won’t be on any college team next year.
This year he is on the team & practicing every day. Just like all players do even if suspended. On dismissed players can’t practice.

Then he's being disciplined. A true suspension would remove him from all football related activities.

 

[NDAFArly]

Then he's being disciplined. A true suspension would remove him from all football related activities.

We have been over this.

Suspended players still eat at the training table, lift with the S&C program, attend position group meetings, & practice.
They aren’t going to suspend someone for 4 weeks, & take away all those things, then magically expect him to be ready week 5.

Dismissed players, such as Holmes, were still enrolled in school & offered a chance to come back later, but while dismissed he was removed from all football activities.

The term “suspended” is just another name for being disciplined since it’s an internal matter. Dismissed is the term used for removed from all football activities.
Brian Kelly has made this clear.

 

[NDIRISH53]

#FreeDex

 

[irishalice]

Just beat em!

 

[echowaker]

We have been over this.

Suspended players still eat at the training table, lift with the S&C program, attend position group meetings, & practice.
They aren’t going to suspend someone for 4 weeks, & take away all those things, then magically expect him to be ready week 5.

Dismissed players, such as Holmes, were still enrolled in school & offered a chance to come back later, but while dismissed he was removed from all football activities.

The term “suspended” is just another name for being disciplined since it’s an internal matter. Dismissed is the term used for removed from all football activities.
Brian Kelly has made this clear.

Agreed. He's clearly being disciplined ,not suspended.

 

[justified1]

He can be forgiven in a big hurry.

 

[Toby Smart]

It was said on this very board that Dex was going to miss four games. Do these "sayers" still stand by that?

 

[justified1]

if at halftime, ND has -10 yds rushing, Dex will be as pure as Sister Teresa.

 

[hfhmilkman]

This is my response to Zorich 88. Anyone has a right to their opinion. I wish you had stated a little bit more about the "why". Else why not be even more grandiose as state Wimbush will run for 250 yards and ND will run for 500? If you are gonna go big, go all the way. I'm of the opinion that in order for the ND offense to move it will have to have balance through the air with emphasis on the TE's. Here is my reasoning.

Last year UM was one of the youngest teams in starting experience in all of college football. There was only one returning starter. Even among those who started only four of those had even been rotation players in 2016. The implication is the entire second unit was also playing for the first time. There were three consequences of this.

The first is that there was very little depth. A common theme even against teams UM won was for the defense to tire out. Mo Hurst was a great college DT. However, to play nose at 290 pounds in a 3-4 defense is asking a lot. Midway UM converted from a 3-4 to a 4-3 when they felt Aubrey Solomon was ready to play. But there was still just no one behind him. I charted this through UM's last 3 games that were losses. In all of the games the production by the opposition in the last 30% of the game was equal to what had occurred in the first 70% of the game and the points in the last 30% were higher.

The second implication is that young players are more prone to mistakes. This was reflected in that when the opposition offense had success it was ginormous. Despite having great havoc, stuff, and 3 and out rates, UM's defense gave up a boat load of big plays often by busts by first year players.

The third consequence is that a tremendous number of players on special teams were 1st year players. When mistakes were made they were large. Not a consequence to the running game but definitely helped field position.

The major difference between 2017 and 2018 is even if we make the statement that the individuals are capped out at a talent level, there will be much better depth, mistakes will be fewer and when made of less consequence. Last years starting defense had a 290 pound NT, a 285 pound End, and the other was 245 pounds. No wonder they wore out. In 2018 not only do the starters have a year of experience but so does every backup.

It is hard to truly determine how good a dominant defense is especially since the offense has all of the advantages. I don't think any dominant defense at the college level can shut down a great offense. Alabama which has hands down created the most defensive NFL players and on paper the best defense every year gave up 42 to OSU, 40 to Clemson, 35 to Clemson and 20 to Georgia with a true freshman at QB. My opinion is the days of depending on winning 17 to 3 are gone. So take it with a grain of salt that UM came out rated 10th last year and has 9 of 11 starters back and 20 of the 22 two deep back including the nickel corner and the backup nickel corner.

College football has a ton of variance. So I am not going to go so far as to guarantee a victory one way verses the other as that is foolish. Nor do I have a need for "action" and have to have money on any game to enjoy it. I will enjoy it for what it is, a signature 1st week game.

That all said I don't think ND will run for very many yards against UM. The main reason is Don Brown's specialty is stopping the spread & shred. He had great success with much lesser talent at Boston College thwarting the "running QB" UM plays a defense that is designed to beat what OSU and Urban Meyer have been running.

Now there is a quite a bit of difference between what Urban Meyer ran and what Brian Kelly does. I say past tense for Meyer because I believe that he is going to attempt to be more "Kelly" like. This is because a run 1st QB is not cutting it against the premier defenses. OSU loses to UM last year if there was not a black hole at QB. But that is another discussion.

I think Brown will have a scheme that will confuse the running keys of Wimbush. UM has really good shut down corners. Two first year starters gave up 22 catches all year. So the key to me is how much does Wimbush improve as a QB reading his TE's and slot receiver verse UM improving at it.

There has been some argument that ND may have a more consistent Oline across the front 5 verses last year. But I don't see that happening week one. Perhaps at the end of the season that will be the case. Some poor 1st game starting tackle is going to have to up against Rashan Gary one on one. Other than Bosa a OSU I can't think of a DE that would be more terrifying.

I do not see the UM offense as being particularly explosive. It will have to depend on possession control and shortening the game. So 20-25 points might be good enough to win this game for ND. I think it will require a balanced offense with a run to pass ratio in terms of yardage of 1:2, similar to a NFL game.

 

[Zorich 88]

This is my response to Zorich 88. Anyone has a right to their opinion. I wish you had stated a little bit more about the "why". Else why not be even more grandiose as state Wimbush will run for 250 yards and ND will run for 500? If you are gonna go big, go all the way. I'm of the opinion that in order for the ND offense to move it will have to have balance through the air with emphasis on the TE's. Here is my reasoning.

Last year UM was one of the youngest teams in starting experience in all of college football. There was only one returning starter. Even among those who started only four of those had even been rotation players in 2016. The implication is the entire second unit was also playing for the first time. There were three consequences of this.

The first is that there was very little depth. A common theme even against teams UM won was for the defense to tire out. Mo Hurst was a great college DT. However, to play nose at 290 pounds in a 3-4 defense is asking a lot. Midway UM converted from a 3-4 to a 4-3 when they felt Aubrey Solomon was ready to play. But there was still just no one behind him. I charted this through UM's last 3 games that were losses. In all of the games the production by the opposition in the last 30% of the game was equal to what had occurred in the first 70% of the game and the points in the last 30% were higher.

The second implication is that young players are more prone to mistakes. This was reflected in that when the opposition offense had success it was ginormous. Despite having great havoc, stuff, and 3 and out rates, UM's defense gave up a boat load of big plays often by busts by first year players.

The third consequence is that a tremendous number of players on special teams were 1st year players. When mistakes were made they were large. Not a consequence to the running game but definitely helped field position.

The major difference between 2017 and 2018 is even if we make the statement that the individuals are capped out at a talent level, there will be much better depth, mistakes will be fewer and when made of less consequence. Last years starting defense had a 290 pound NT, a 285 pound End, and the other was 245 pounds. No wonder they wore out. In 2018 not only do the starters have a year of experience but so does every backup.

It is hard to truly determine how good a dominant defense is especially since the offense has all of the advantages. I don't think any dominant defense at the college level can shut down a great offense. Alabama which has hands down created the most defensive NFL players and on paper the best defense every year gave up 42 to OSU, 40 to Clemson, 35 to Clemson and 20 to Georgia with a true freshman at QB. My opinion is the days of depending on winning 17 to 3 are gone. So take it with a grain of salt that UM came out rated 10th last year and has 9 of 11 starters back and 20 of the 22 two deep back including the nickel corner and the backup nickel corner.

College football has a ton of variance. So I am not going to go so far as to guarantee a victory one way verses the other as that is foolish. Nor do I have a need for "action" and have to have money on any game to enjoy it. I will enjoy it for what it is, a signature 1st week game.

That all said I don't think ND will run for very many yards against UM. The main reason is Don Brown's specialty is stopping the spread & shred. He had great success with much lesser talent at Boston College thwarting the "running QB" UM plays a defense that is designed to beat what OSU and Urban Meyer have been running.

Now there is a quite a bit of difference between what Urban Meyer ran and what Brian Kelly does. I say past tense for Meyer because I believe that he is going to attempt to be more "Kelly" like. This is because a run 1st QB is not cutting it against the premier defenses. OSU loses to UM last year if there was not a black hole at QB. But that is another discussion.

I think Brown will have a scheme that will confuse the running keys of Wimbush. UM has really good shut down corners. Two first year starters gave up 22 catches all year. So the key to me is how much does Wimbush improve as a QB reading his TE's and slot receiver verse UM improving at it.

There has been some argument that ND may have a more consistent Oline across the front 5 verses last year. But I don't see that happening week one. Perhaps at the end of the season that will be the case. Some poor 1st game starting tackle is going to have to up against Rashan Gary one on one. Other than Bosa a OSU I can't think of a DE that would be more terrifying.

I do not see the UM offense as being particularly explosive. It will have to depend on possession control and shortening the game. So 20-25 points might be good enough to win this game for ND. I think it will require a balanced offense with a run to pass ratio in terms of yardage of 1:2, similar to a NFL game.

Let me start by saying, no way am I going to read your blog/chapter. 13 paragraphs, really?

I will address your first sentence in your first paragraph.

I looked at every Michigan game stat. There rushing defense was and is the weak point.

MSU 158yrds (Loss)

PSU 224yrds (Loss)

Turps 180yrds (Win)

Wisky 182yrds (Loss)

OSU 226yrds (Loss)

ND has to be commited to the run game.
They have to have at least 30-40 run plays.

You mentioned Michigan was young on defense. Ok, let's go with that. However, a lot of there sophomore players saw significant PT as Freshman. Michigan tends to overpursue on ball carriers and lack true gap assignment technique. The result, holes you can drive a truck through.

 

[Zorich 88]

Zorich 88, I'll take you up on the over 300 yards rushing against Mich. How about $ 100.

Sorry, not a betting man. Gentlemans bet is all I can offer. Plus or minus 25yrds

 

[justified1]

Or the game

Let me start by saying, no way am I going to read your blog/chapter. 13 paragraphs, really?

I will address your first sentence in your first paragraph.

I looked at every Michigan game stat. There rushing defense was and is the weak point.

MSU 158yrds (Loss)

PSU 224yrds (Loss)

Turps 180yrds (Win)

Wisky 182yrds (Loss)

OSU 226yrds (Loss)

ND has to be commited to the run game.
They have to have at least 30-40 run plays.

You mentioned Michigan was young on defense. Ok, let's go with that. However, a lot of there sophomore players saw significant PT as Freshman. Michigan tends to overpursue on ball carriers and lack true gap assignment technique. The result, holes you can drive a truck through.

Dex will run wild!

 

[NDlb46]

First game of the season, so very little tape on the team’s makeup this year. It’s a crap shoot for game one. A spectacular scheme could shut down ND week 1 with less than 120 yds rushing. But once teams get Meatchicken’s 2018 personnel and scheme on tape, they could get shredded. See ND v Miami last year. See ND v any opponent after the FSU game in BVG’s first season.

This game between ND and Mich is going to be fun as hell because of the variables that no one knows about. First game of the new season...who f***ing knows what’s going to happen, but I’ll be happy to watch.

 

[hfhmilkman]

Let me start by saying, no way am I going to read your blog/chapter. 13 paragraphs, really?

I will address your first sentence in your first paragraph.

I looked at every Michigan game stat. There rushing defense was and is the weak point.

MSU 158yrds (Loss)

PSU 224yrds (Loss)

Turps 180yrds (Win)

Wisky 182yrds (Loss)

OSU 226yrds (Loss)

ND has to be commited to the run game.
They have to have at least 30-40 run plays.

You mentioned Michigan was young on defense. Ok, let's go with that. However, a lot of there sophomore players saw significant PT as Freshman. Michigan tends to overpursue on ball carriers and lack true gap assignment technique. The result, holes you can drive a truck through.

Ahh we live in the twitter world. I will try to keep my response to less than 200 characters. NOT

A few comments. Is that not the problem with youth, over zealous ball pursuit and lack of gap assignment? You are sort of proving my point in terms of the failures. Thus my assertion that older players will clean this problem up.

Regarding playing I will disagree. Hurst, Winovich, and Gary were part of the 2nd unit. We all know that the Dline has practically two sets of starters because of the nature of football. There was one starter at LB. The other two only had spot duty. Bush has 11 tackles in 7 games and Hudson had 8 tackles in 6 games. Ditto with the secondary other than Metellus who got a start in the bowl game because of the Peppers injury.

You also make the mistake that FriedmanIP does which is not to look at the ebb and flow of the game. This goes back to variance. Getting 5 ypc 20 times is more useful than one 100 yard run and 19 plays of zero gain. Some of the games reflect exactly what you described, young players making mistakes. PSU had half their yardage on 3 runs. So did Maryland. MSU had half their yardage on 2 runs. Some of this was a scheme problem as the 3-4 with Noah Furbush and McCray as 2 of the 4 linebackers were suspectable to QB scrambles. That was how both MSU and PSU got a lot of yardage. After PSU UM went to the 4-3 Furbush was acting more as a glorified lineman spotting up as a linebacker anyway. So why not have 4 down lineman.

I think you make a better case for Wisc and OSU. That was a bit more legit. OSU was definitely a more dominant offense as they scored in the 1st half, one being a legit drive. They also had the TD on the safety bust. Yeah young players. But Wisc was doing nothing until UM tired out. Even with OSU they got almost a third of their total yards on 3 plays when the UM was clearly demoralized by the awful O'Korn interception.

So what am I saying in the 14th chapter of my diatribe? The mistakes of last year are correctable and depending on a repeat for a victory may be dangerous. Second never depend on first order stats. They can deceive. Third only troll hfhmilkman and don't play FF because this is how I obliterate my friends in FF. College is tougher because the variance is greater. But it is my secret for winning.

 

[Zorich 88]

Ahh we live in the twitter world. I will try to keep my response to less than 200 characters. NOT

A few comments. Is that not the problem with youth, over zealous ball pursuit and lack of gap assignment? You are sort of proving my point in terms of the failures. Thus my assertion that older players will clean this problem up.

Regarding playing I will disagree. Hurst, Winovich, and Gary were part of the 2nd unit. We all know that the Dline has practically two sets of starters because of the nature of football. There was one starter at LB. The other two only had spot duty. Bush has 11 tackles in 7 games and Hudson had 8 tackles in 6 games. Ditto with the secondary other than Metellus who got a start in the bowl game because of the Peppers injury.

You also make the mistake that FriedmanIP does which is not to look at the ebb and flow of the game. This goes back to variance. Getting 5 ypc 20 times is more useful than one 100 yard run and 19 plays of zero gain. Some of the games reflect exactly what you described, young players making mistakes. PSU had half their yardage on 3 runs. So did Maryland. MSU had half their yardage on 2 runs. Some of this was a scheme problem as the 3-4 with Noah Furbush and McCray as 2 of the 4 linebackers were suspectable to QB scrambles. That was how both MSU and PSU got a lot of yardage. After PSU UM went to the 4-3 Furbush was acting more as a glorified lineman spotting up as a linebacker anyway. So why not have 4 down lineman.

I think you make a better case for Wisc and OSU. That was a bit more legit. OSU was definitely a more dominant offense as they scored in the 1st half, one being a legit drive. They also had the TD on the safety bust. Yeah young players. But Wisc was doing nothing until UM tired out. Even with OSU they got almost a third of their total yards on 3 plays when the UM was clearly demoralized by the awful O'Korn interception.

So what am I saying in the 14th chapter of my diatribe? The mistakes of last year are correctable and depending on a repeat for a victory may be dangerous. Second never depend on first order stats. They can deceive. Third only troll hfhmilkman and don't play FF because this is how I obliterate my friends in FF. College is tougher because the variance is greater. But it is my secret for winning.

So, what exactly are you saying? MIchigan will not have any problems with the ND run game? If that's the case then Michigan wins by double digits. I firmly believe ND will beat Michigan. It will happen two ways.
1. The ND running attack. Commit to the run and ND wins by

2. The Michigan offense still sucks. ND will create T.O.'s.

BW will slash Mich with a few 15-20 yard runs.

 

[hfhmilkman]

So, what exactly are you saying? MIchigan will not have any problems with the ND run game? If that's the case then Michigan wins by double digits. I firmly believe ND will beat Michigan. It will happen two ways.
1. The ND running attack. Commit to the run and ND wins by

2. The Michigan offense still sucks. ND will create T.O.'s.

BW will slash Mich with a few 15-20 yard runs.

I said exactly what I said. In order for ND to have a successful offense the ratio of run to passing yards will need to be closer to 1:2. I would say ND would win if they can get to 120 yards running 240 yards passing. If they do a bit less than that will need to do more on the defense side. TO's are real high variance. Fumbles are 50/50 propositions. Defense could do everything right and the ball bounces wrong. So now you have to depend on INT's which are heavily dependent on how shaky the QB is. If you think Shea Patterson stinks you can rest easy.

 

[echowaker]

I said exactly what I said. In order for ND to have a successful offense the ratio of run to passing yards will need to be closer to 1:2. I would say ND would win if they can get to 120 yards running 240 yards passing. If they do a bit less than that will need to do more on the defense side. TO's are real high variance. Fumbles are 50/50 propositions. Defense could do everything right and the ball bounces wrong. So now you have to depend on INT's which are heavily dependent on how shaky the QB is. If you think Shea Patterson stinks you can rest easy.

i think its simple. the nd offense has much more potential to score on michigans defense than michigans offense has to score on notre dames defense. turnovers are ALWAYS the biggest variable in a football game. if that number is even i think nd wins comfortably.

 

[justified1]

But a word of caution. Just as the ND defense made a huge turnaround in 17 from 16, do not assume that the defense will just continue to improve. The defense started great, hit a plateau, then had some problems, and seemed to right itself at the end. Where will the defense be in Sept?

 

[echowaker]

But a word of caution. Just as the ND defense made a huge turnaround in 17 from 16, do not assume that the defense will just continue to improve. The defense started great, hit a plateau, then had some problems, and seemed to right itself at the end. Where will the defense be in Sept?

always the optimist. should i assume they'll be worse ? why should there be pessimism coming off a ten win season where there are plenty of quality returning players ?

 

[mrwigglesby21]

I expected more from Harbaugh; surprised he has underachieved. The ND program is good in shape, albeit not perennial top 5 shape, but top 12ish. The Michigan program is currently hovering in the top 25ish area. Night game at ND, we hate Michigan, first game of the year, plenty of experience returning, tells me we should win this game by 10-17pts. I would not be surprised to see us win by 20+.

I'm hoping for another 37-0 win again, regardless if the scoreboard said 31-0, we all know it was 37-0; so does Michigan.

I respect all our rivalries: Navy, Stanford, USC, Michigan St., Purdue.... but I can't stand the skunkbears. The only time I root for them is when they are playing Urban Meyer, and I would just assume both teams lose.

 

[NDlb46]

always the optimist. should i assume they'll be worse ? why should there be pessimism coming off a ten win season where there are plenty of quality returning players ?

That's an easy answer that you already gave in your response: Justified is an eternal pessimist and his posts hover between pessimistic ND fan and closet Michigan fan. However, he is intelligent enough to not go so far as BubbaJ and even has more discretion than Pikehead. But still, he is what he is. Just read his posting history.

 

[hfhmilkman]

i think its simple. the nd offense has much more potential to score on michigans defense than michigans offense has to score on notre dames defense. turnovers are ALWAYS the biggest variable in a football game. if that number is even i think nd wins comfortably.

Can you elaborate on why you believe that? It may be a race to the bottom but ND offense has several issues. Most of the production from the skill positions must be replaced, two top 10 draft picks have to be replaced, and the starting QB could not complete half of his passes despite a dominant running game. I think it is a legit to question whether Shea Patterson may be any good. So maybe the ND offense does not have to do very much. But I see a lot more question marks on the ND offense then the UM defense.

 

[echowaker]

Can you elaborate on why you believe that? It may be a race to the bottom but ND offense has several issues. Most of the production from the skill positions must be replaced, two top 10 draft picks have to be replaced, and the starting QB could not complete half of his passes despite a dominant running game. I think it is a legit to question whether Shea Patterson may be any good. So maybe the ND offense does not have to do very much. But I see a lot more question marks on the ND offense then the UM defense.

The key word is potential. i believe the players in place along with chip longs play calling can be very, very good. michigans offense has to make great strides to just be mediocre.

 

[hfhmilkman]

The key word is potential. i believe the players in place along with chip longs play calling can be very, very good. michigans offense has to make great strides to just be mediocre.

How come UM's potential does not count? Shea Patterson was only the #1 pocket QB prospect for his class. You said you played for MSU so I presume you keep track of Michigan High School sports. DPJ is only the best football prospect to come out of the State of Michigan since Charles Rogers. I assume as a MSU grad you know what Charles Rogers did to ND.

Left unsaid and I have stated to you before Harbaugh has shown he can run a prolific offense without the need for great individual talent. What did the 2016 offense have? Not very much. They had one dominant offensive player in Jake Butt and everyone else were just overachievers. Coles was the only Olineman to get drafted. I know Chip Long is pretty good. But so is Jim Harbaugh. After all he figured out how to use Alex Smith and Colin Kapernick when no one else could.

I think you absolutely underestimate the impact of the deadweight of inferior QB performance on a team. This is the reason why mediocre QB's get 10 million dollar contracts for being one level above stink. If you do not have a decent QB you have nothing. If Shea Patterson is just average the offense will improve by leaps & bounds. And if he is as good as Phil Steele says then it could be an interesting season. But don't bring that up with me because my level of expectation is not as high as Mr Steele's.

 

[echowaker]

How come UM's potential does not count? Shea Patterson was only the #1 pocket QB prospect for his class. You said you played for MSU so I presume you keep track of Michigan High School sports. DPJ is only the best football prospect to come out of the State of Michigan since Charles Rogers. I assume as a MSU grad you know what Charles Rogers did to ND.

Left unsaid and I have stated to you before Harbaugh has shown he can run a prolific offense without the need for great individual talent. What did the 2016 offense have? Not very much. They had one dominant offensive player in Jake Butt and everyone else were just overachievers. Coles was the only Olineman to get drafted. I know Chip Long is pretty good. But so is Jim Harbaugh. After all he figured out how to use Alex Smith and Colin Kapernick when no one else could.

I think you absolutely underestimate the impact of the deadweight of inferior QB performance on a team. This is the reason why mediocre QB's get 10 million dollar contracts for being one level above stink. If you do not have a decent QB you have nothing. If Shea Patterson is just average the offense will improve by leaps & bounds. And if he is as good as Phil Steele says then it could be an interesting season. But don't bring that up with me because my level of expectation is not as high as Mr Steele's.

I'm just not impressed with harbaugh as a college coach. He's much better suited for the NFL but he wore out his welcome there. I mean he's arguably the 7th or 8th best coach in his own conference. I honestly believe Michigan will have an uphill battle to finish any higher than 3rd in their own division of the conference if Meyer,Franklin and dantonio continue to stick around.

 

[hfhmilkman]

I'm just not impressed with harbaugh as a college coach. He's much better suited for the NFL but he wore out his welcome there. I mean he's arguably the 7th or 8th best coach in his own conference. I honestly believe Michigan will have an uphill battle to finish any higher than 3rd in their own division of the conference if Meyer,Franklin and dantonio continue to stick around.

So San Diego and Stanford were flukes? I do not understand your statement that he wore out his welcome in the NFL. Every other franchise was drooling to pick him up. Hordes of pundits were stating there was no way Harbaugh was leaving the NFL. So I am interested why you believe Harbaugh wearing out his welcome extended not just to the 49ers but to the rest of the NFL. My understanding is most 49er fans think the owner and the GM are fools.

I will just do the stats stuff. Harbaugh in 4 seasons averaged 11 wins and went to the playoffs 3 times making the SB once and 2 NFC championship games. If you count at 1999 when the salary cap era forced the dissolution of the Seifert teams the 49'ers in 15 seasons had 2 winning seasons, 2 playoff appearances and won exactly one playoff game.

As a Lions fan I will gladly take the cost of "wearing out a welcome" if it means quintupling the number of playoff victories over the last 50 years.

 

[echowaker]

So San Diego and Stanford were flukes? I do not understand your statement that he wore out his welcome in the NFL. Every other franchise was drooling to pick him up. Hordes of pundits were stating there was no way Harbaugh was leaving the NFL. So I am interested why you believe Harbaugh wearing out his welcome extended not just to the 49ers but to the rest of the NFL. My understanding is most 49er fans think the owner and the GM are fools.

I will just do the stats stuff. Harbaugh in 4 seasons averaged 11 wins and went to the playoffs 3 times making the SB once and 2 NFC championship games. If you count at 1999 when the salary cap era forced the dissolution of the Seifert teams the 49'ers in 15 seasons had 2 winning seasons, 2 playoff appearances and won exactly one playoff game.

As a Lions fan I will gladly take the cost of "wearing out a welcome" if it means quintupling the number of playoff victories over the last 50 years.

Disliked by many players in Frisco, management too. He did a nice job at San Diego. Not high profile, less than the MAC. One stellar season at Stanford thanks young Mr. Luck. Not much to crow about at UM. Again, 7th best coach in conference at best.

 

[hfhmilkman]

Disliked by many players in Frisco, management too. He did a nice job at San Diego. Not high profile, less than the MAC. One stellar season at Stanford thanks young Mr. Luck. Not much to crow about at UM. Again, 7th best coach in conference at best.

As a Lions fan if I get 3 NFC championship appearances and two good shots at SB wins I will gladly take the rumors of unhappy players. I'm sure the 49er fans would agree that content teams that are always losing will make them unhappy.

I will put words in your mouth. When someone says a coach is 7th best at best in a conference then they are saying that individual sucks. He stinks as most coaches in the bottom half of the conference are gone in a few years. You should just say that instead of beating around the bush. Then we can agree to disagree and see what happens in 2018. I will take my beatdown if UM stumbles.

 

[echowaker]

As a Lions fan if I get 3 NFC championship appearances and two good shots at SB wins I will gladly take the rumors of unhappy players. I'm sure the 49er fans would agree that content teams that are always losing will make them unhappy.

I will put words in your mouth. When someone says a coach is 7th best at best in a conference then they are saying that individual sucks. He stinks as most coaches in the bottom half of the conference are gone in a few years. You should just say that instead of beating around the bush. Then we can agree to disagree and see what happens in 2018. I will take my beatdown if UM stumbles.

Never said he wasn't a fine NFL coach. he was. College ? different animal. Meyer, Franklin,Dantonio,Ferentz,Chryst, Fitzgerald all better college coaches in my opinion. Frost likely will be too. Maybe Brohm also. It's just my opinion and I wouldn't expect you to agree with it. I will be glad to give him credit if he accomplishes something at Michigan. I just don't see it in the foreseeable future.