lol. "7th best coach (at best) in conference in three years", but still a better record than Brian Kelly in that time.
Mich vs ND
- Thread starter Zorich 88
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lol. "7th best coach (at best) in conference in three years", but still a better record than Brian Kelly in that time.
Kelly would be the 8th best coach in the conference.
maybe. i think he's better than harbaugh. he's certainly achieved much, much more at the collegiate level.
No one knows exactly why Niners got rid of him. Although, I think it was pretty obvious that Harbraugh wanted more control than Baalke (GM) was willing to give up. Jed York basically decided to favor Baalke over Harbraugh. What I find ironic is that by getting rid of Harbraugh, it basically expedited the departure of Baalke two seasons later. Thankfully as a Niners fan, York brought in Lynch and Shannhan who have a great working relationship.
I am surprised at how much Harbraugh has underachieved. I don't watch a lot of Michigan football, but it's clear to me that the offense is struggling to keep up with their better opponets. I think their D will be good but like last year they can't be on the field after the offense gets 0-1 first down nearly every drive. As much as we may want to say that football is a team sport, we all know that most teams go as far as the QB can go. If Harbraugh gets his QB I think UM will be fine and they'll put up some wins.
I think he's much better suited for the college game than NFL. His personality is a lot to take in and it wears thin after awhile, so he benefits from a change of players with each recruiting class. Multiple Niners players indicated that Harbraugh was too "rah-rah" and that isn't the best fit in the NFL in my opinion, as the coaches and players operate in a more professional and formal manner.
No, he hasn't. He has done less with less. 48-50 in the Big Ten (in the easier division) vs 18-8.
i guess if winning pct. is the only way you evaluate a program you are right. many more components to it though. you know that but you'll defend mediocre jimmy till he's gone.
Perhaps. But no one who wins the "Better Than Brian Kelly" trophy chooses to display it on their mantel.
It isn't the *only* way. But wins and losses are perhaps the best single indicator. By that measure, Kelly is better than Fitz as well.
i think level of expectation should be factored in when evaluating any coach. it's why some jobs pay way, way more than others.
So then you think Fitz would be an upgrade from Kelly? I don't know about that.
Fitz has admittedly done well at NU but if I were the AD of a blue blood program, I wouldn't be looking to hire him.
Greetings. Here is my response. You say that you were surprised that Harbaugh underachieved. Yet what was forgotten is that all of the pundits stated that 7-5 was the ceiling for 2015. Their reasoning was that UM did not have any QB talent. In fact if you look at the skill players recruited by Hoke, very few were exceptional talents. Only Jake Butt has shown any truly exceptional ability.
The worse thing Harbaugh could have done is exceed expectations in 2015. No one thought he could get anything meaningful out of Ruddock. He looked really rough in the 1s half of the year. But by the end of 2015 he was pretty good. 10-3 was way beyond anything that could have been expected.
Then sort of the same thing happened with 2016. Another transfer at QB was brought in because the belief of the staff was there were no QB's. The expectation was John O'Korn would win the job. We were all shocked and dismayed when Speight won the starting job and threw a terrible interception on his very first pass. Yet somehow the UM offense in 2016 was prolific. Was it the Peppers wildcat? Was it the train formation? I really got the feeling there was some smoke & mirrors. After all Speight was an Al Borges recruit. Al Borges sordid history of recruiting QB's is well, can only be stated as sordid. Yet it seemed like Speight came back to reality against Iowa where he literally could not throw the ball straight. Was that the real Speight or did he have an injury all ready? Was it teams wising up to all of the smoke and mirrors? But I felt okay because OSU and FSU were competitive games decided at the very end. Regardless of win or loss all you can ask is that your team is there.
In 2014 when Harbaugh was first hired the owners of mgoblog did a great piece on projecting. They warned that 2017 was going to be tough because of Hoke staff recruiting failures. There were just not enough upper class bodies. This was not Urban Meyer cherry picking a loaded UF or OSU. Entire position groups were void of upperclassmen. Yet there was hope because the expectation was that Speight was at least not terrible? Yet the room for error was pretty small.
Unfortunately the worse position got hit by injuries. Speight may have degraded as he looked pretty bad up to his neck injury but was nothing like the horror that occurred after. UM was already starting two true freshman at the receiver positions. And then the guy who looked like he knew how to run routes breaks his ankle in the 3rd game of the season. However, the most crippling injury may have occurred in 2016 when Grant Newsome nearly lost his leg. This was discussed at length on mgoblog but one of the failures of Harbaugh's first class(2016) was to bring in a tackle. They screwed up in they thought they had a guy wrapped up and lost interest in another who wanted to go to UM. The first flipped and the 2nd went somewhere else. So all that was left were Hoke backups. Then compound it when the coaching staff could not figure out an identity between power and zone. Was that panicking? Should they have started James Hudson their diamond in the rough as a true freshman? The rest is history.
So what is the summary of long winded diatribe anti Twitter response 16? Last year Harbaugh's most experienced recruits other than a tiny handful of 2015 afterthoughts were sophomores. Stanford did not really take off until year 4. Unless a program is loaded, it really is difficult to coach a team up to elite status. A coach can only do so much. This team in terms of experience as ranked somewhere around 120 in 2017. The second outcome is if you do not have a QB you are in a danger of having nothing. I think another good case study is FSU. FSU going into 2017 was a BCS contender. Yet at the end of the year was a .500 team and the head coach who had recruited more 5 stars to FSU then all other teams except Alabama was gone. It fell apart because FSU had no QB when the starter went down. If Francois does not get hurt in 2017 is Fisher still at FSU?
So what do I look for in 2018. I want to see a team compete. Wins are a variant that can be determined by inches. Do I want a coach hired or fired because 5 plays might determine the outcome of 5 games and the 1 out of 32 odds actually happened. As Brady Hoke learned to his chagrin in 2012 luck evens out. The seniors on the team are all Hoke's classes. If Harbaugh were to be fired no sane coach would foolishly take the job and it would be the end of Michigan football which means the end of the athletic department since the budget is funded by football. 2018 will be the inflection point because the 4th year is when Harbaugh really began to have success at Stanford.
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a coach has to WANT to coach at notre dame and embrace the policies set forth by the administration in managing the football program. those policies keep many top level coaches and players away.
Or be able to get breaks from the admin and let in a few ringers, as Lou was able to do.
yes, but those days are long gone.Or be able to get breaks from the admin and let in a few ringers, as Lou was able to do.
BK took a Cincy team to 12-0 & one second (the Big12 Title game where the officials wrongly put a second back on the clock to allow Texas to kick a FG) from playing in the National Title game. He also obviously took ND to 12-0 with a Freshman QB & to the National Title Game.
Harbaugh had Luck & still didn’t do that at Stanford. He also hasn’t finished above 3rd in his own division at Michigan. (4th in conference). Harbaugh is also the 3rd highest paid coach in the country & makes twice as much as Kelly. Harbaugh can also bring in kids at Michigan Kelly can’t at ND (admissions). ND had the #1 ranked SOS last year & has an average in the top 10 since Kelly got to ND, Michigan’s outside the top 20 since Harbaugh got to Michigan. Kelly beat as many ranked teams (in the final poll) last year that Harbaugh has combined in three seasons.
To me this is a no-brained. But whatever....
Harbaugh had Luck & still didn’t do that at Stanford. He also hasn’t finished above 3rd in his own division at Michigan. (4th in conference). Harbaugh is also the 3rd highest paid coach in the country & makes twice as much as Kelly. Harbaugh can also bring in kids at Michigan Kelly can’t at ND (admissions). ND had the #1 ranked SOS last year & has an average in the top 10 since Kelly got to ND, Michigan’s outside the top 20 since Harbaugh got to Michigan. Kelly beat as many ranked teams (in the final poll) last year that Harbaugh has combined in three seasons.
To me this is a no-brained. But whatever....
I am using the NCAA's official record. You can use whatever doesn't count if it makes you feel better.
That’s why you have & always will be a troll.
(Also, don’t get too comfortable with that ruling, the federal court system is going to be involved with it soon...)
We are discussing coaches performances on the field. BK coached those games & ND won them. We aren’t discussing officials records.
Let me explain it to you at your speed:
If we were having a discussion on rather someone punched some or not, but not if they were found guilt, those are two different things. So if I punch someone in front of a million witnesses & cameras, but the police forget to read me my rights, guess what? I’m not guilty. Does that mean I didn’t punch the person? No. So if we are discussing that it doesn’t matter what the court says.
Or be able to get breaks from the admin and let in a few ringers, as Lou was able to do.
yea, Lou could have just hired someones Mom or Aunt as S&C coach
Also, let’s not forget who you are:
You make claims about the case being denied 3 months before it was even heard.
Then you acknowledge that & apologize.
Then months later when it is heard & denied you come back & say I told you so, even after you previously admitted you were wrong. LOL
So you are that guy.
And you are also the guy who knows the truth but you let fandom ruin your mental capacity.
Even Bama fans, USC fans & pretty much every person with common sense ageeed that the ruling was stupid & ND did nothing wrong.
Do you even know the facts of the case?
I agree he is troll but at times easily disputed. But Wisenheimer needs to be banned
Yes, the official record does suit my argument. I fail however to see how it is "low hanging fruit".
Schadenfreude? Right, Ivan?
So, is ND going to challenge the NCAA in court? I read where Louisville basketball players filed a lawsuit to get their natty back.
because the games were actually played and had outcomes. everyone knows that. some crazy ncaa decision doesn't change that. the opponents were not given victories. silly. no different than the decision effecting the fab five at michigan. everyone is well aware of the outcomes of those games.
Not a "crazy" NCAA decision. If you play a game with players that are ineligible, the standard NCAA ruling is to vacate any wins. In ND's initial statement, they said they were prepared to vacate wins if that is what the NCAA decided.
And yes, the Fab Five cheated and those wins are all gone. The banners are gone. The official NCAA records reflect that.
still doesn't change the outcomes. it is crazy. why not give the opponents victories then ? dumb, just dumb to act like the games were never played. makes no sense.
That 2012 Cincy team was exposed in the bowl game. That was the most one sided new years bowl game I had ever witnessed. Credit for Cincy for being there but they were completely outclassed. I would ask who did Cincy play that year. I give Kelly credit for doing as well as possible as the only way to beat Bama is talent. I liked how that 2012 team was built. Kelly did not have the great offensive talents and was able to win doing something that was outside of his comfort level. That all said despite being solidly in place for several years he came up with a 4-8 stinker. I don't blame it all on Kelly as there are mitigating circumstances out of his control. Some of his coaching hires especially on defense did not work out and ND had several bad breaks in game where the win was in the balance. I'm sure going into 2017 there were those on the board calling for Kelly's firing. He made the appropriate coaching changes and corrected his mistakes.
It does change the outcome. Just like a TD "on the field" may be called back due to penalty. And the NCAA uses this because vacating wins, contrary to simple monetary fines, hurts a program where it counts: their pride.
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i don't buy that for a minute. why not award the opponents the victories then ? what logical reason is there for not doing that ? the ncaa has long outlived its usefulness.
If the NCAA was abolished, do you think cheating would go up, down, or stay the same? I think it would go up.
