Looking further into the biggest games of he last 12 years...

[88ND]

There is a reason alright we have had such poor success over the last dozen years....( yes this goes back further but let's look at what was supposed to be our program is back era)

Here is the biggest games in the past dozen years

2012
@ Oklahoma
ND rushing
39/215
OU rushing
24/15
Win! 30-13

2012 Bama BCS game
ND rushing
19/32
Bama rushing
45/265
Loss!

2015 @ Clemson
ND rushing
32/111
CU rushing
43/212
Loss!! 22-24

2015 Fiesta vs. OSU
ND Rushing
32/121
OSU rushing
54/285
Loss!!! 28-44

2016
38 dropbacks in standing water and a hurricane....
we'll forget about 2016!!

2017
vs. UGA
ND rushing
37/55
UGA rushing
43/185
Loss!!!! 19-20

2017 @ Miami
ND rushing
36/109
UM rushing
42/237
Loss!!!!! 8-41

2018 Playoff vs, Clemson
ND rushing
35/88
Clemson rushing
37/211
Loss!!!!!! 3-30

2019 @ UGA
ND rushing
14/46
UGA rushing
33/152
Loss!!!!!!! 17-23

2019 @ Michigan
ND rushing
31/47
Michigan rushing
57/303
Loss!!!!!!!!! 14-45

2020 vs Clemson
ND rushing
40/208
Clemson rushing
33/34
Win!! 47-40

2020 vs Clemson ACC
ND rushing
30-44
Clemson rushing
27/219
Loss!!!!!!!!!!10-34

2020 Playoff (1/1/21)
ND rushing
38/139
Bama rushing
25/140
Loss!!!!!!!!!!!!! 14-31

2021 Fiesta Bowl vs OkSU
ND rushing
21/42
OkSU
44/234
Loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 35-37


Isn't it odd that every other year or so we have this allegedly top offensive line in the land...so they say....
yet in the biggest of games we just can't run.
The backs really not that good? The line overrated? Coaching? Scheme?

either way it's wrong...something...perhaps all of it.

We suck at the QB spot too which doesn't help much be we are even worse at running the ball in the biggest of games.

It's the old school way of football present day. can't run...can't stop the run....NOT GOING TO WIN!!!

 

[BGI User 1596]

There is a reason alright we have had such poor success over the last dozen years....( yes this goes back further but let's look at what was supposed to be our program is back era)

2012
@ Oklahoma
ND rushing
39/215
OU rushing
24/15
Win! 30-13

2012 Bama BCS game
ND rushing
19/32
Bama rushing
45/265
Loss!

2015 @ Clemson
ND rushing
32/111
CU rushing
43/212
Loss!! 22-24

2015 Fiesta vs. OSU
ND Rushing
32/121
OSU rushing
54/285
Loss!!! 28-44

2016
38 dropbacks in standing water and a hurricane....
we'll forget about 2016!!

2017
vs. UGA
ND rushing
37/55
UGA rushing
43/185
Loss!!!! 19-20

2017 @ Miami
ND rushing
36/109
UM rushing
42/237
Loss!!!!! 8-41

2018 Playoff vs, Clemson
ND rushing
35/88
Clemson rushing
37/211
Loss!!!!!! 3-30

2019 @ UGA
ND rushing
14/46
UGA rushing
33/152
Loss!!!!!!! 17-23

2019 @ Michigan
ND rushing
31/47
Michigan rushing
57/303
Loss!!!!!!!!! 14-45

2020 vs Clemson
ND rushing
40/208
Clemson rushing
33/34
Win!! 47-40

2020 vs Clemson ACC
ND rushing
30-44
Clemson rushing
27/219
Loss!!!!!!!!!!10-34

2020 Playoff (1/1/21)
ND rushing
38/139
Bama rushing
25/140
Loss!!!!!!!!!!!!! 14-31

2021 Fiesta Bowl vs OkSU
ND rushing
21/42
OkSU
44/234
Loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 35-37


Isn't it odd that every other year or so we have this allegedly top offensive line in the land...so they say....
yet in the biggest of games we just can't run.
The backs really not that good? The line overrated? Coaching? Scheme?

either way it's wrong...something...perhaps all of it.

We suck at the QB spot too which doesn't help much be we are even worse at running the ball in the biggest of games.

It's the old school way of football present day. can't run...can't stop the run....NOT GOING TO WIN!!!

Ouch!

 

[FightingIrish44]

Good post. It really is amazing how much ND struggles against the elite teams.

In that Clemson game Kyren had a 65 yarder for a TD also that skews the stats some. The Clemson safety probably should have made that tackle to keep it to 10-15 yards. Even if you subtract 50 yards from that run its still about 3.8 yards per carry, which isn’t terrible, so maybe its not fair to even subtract the majority of the yards from that run.

One thing I have noticed when ND plays elite teams is one of their particular runs plays does tend to get blown up by penetration into the C gap when they ran the particular play. I don’t necessarily think its a talent thing but good scouting by the opponent. I just see it more against the elite teams for some reason. Maybe ND did find a way to counter it that I never picked up on though.

I didn’t see ND run that play once this year though so maybe they scrapped it. ND also scrapped another particular outside run early in the year after FSU and didn’t bring it out again until late in the season and I saw it only once against OSU. Was it because of coaching or inexperience at OL? Not sure but probably the right move so ND can get better at everything else.

 

[FightingIrish44]

One more thing. 2017 NC State against ND. ND ran for 318 at 5.9. State was supposed to have quite a bit of talent on their D Line and ND destroyed them.

Maybe teams with better defenses have good coaches that make it harder on the offense, regardless who they’re playing? Not sure.

 

[notredamerises23]

There is a reason alright we have had such poor success over the last dozen years....( yes this goes back further but let's look at what was supposed to be our program is back era)

2012
@ Oklahoma
ND rushing
39/215
OU rushing
24/15
Win! 30-13

2012 Bama BCS game
ND rushing
19/32
Bama rushing
45/265
Loss!

2015 @ Clemson
ND rushing
32/111
CU rushing
43/212
Loss!! 22-24

2015 Fiesta vs. OSU
ND Rushing
32/121
OSU rushing
54/285
Loss!!! 28-44

2016
38 dropbacks in standing water and a hurricane....
we'll forget about 2016!!

2017
vs. UGA
ND rushing
37/55
UGA rushing
43/185
Loss!!!! 19-20

2017 @ Miami
ND rushing
36/109
UM rushing
42/237
Loss!!!!! 8-41

2018 Playoff vs, Clemson
ND rushing
35/88
Clemson rushing
37/211
Loss!!!!!! 3-30

2019 @ UGA
ND rushing
14/46
UGA rushing
33/152
Loss!!!!!!! 17-23

2019 @ Michigan
ND rushing
31/47
Michigan rushing
57/303
Loss!!!!!!!!! 14-45

2020 vs Clemson
ND rushing
40/208
Clemson rushing
33/34
Win!! 47-40

2020 vs Clemson ACC
ND rushing
30-44
Clemson rushing
27/219
Loss!!!!!!!!!!10-34

2020 Playoff (1/1/21)
ND rushing
38/139
Bama rushing
25/140
Loss!!!!!!!!!!!!! 14-31

2021 Fiesta Bowl vs OkSU
ND rushing
21/42
OkSU
44/234
Loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 35-37


Isn't it odd that every other year or so we have this allegedly top offensive line in the land...so they say....
yet in the biggest of games we just can't run.
The backs really not that good? The line overrated? Coaching? Scheme?

either way it's wrong...something...perhaps all of it.

We suck at the QB spot too which doesn't help much be we are even worse at running the ball in the biggest of games.

It's the old school way of football present day. can't run...can't stop the run....NOT GOING TO WIN!!!

Obviously if you cannot run nor stop the run then you’re not going to win outside of luck. But if you can do one or the other you can win and teams do that. You’re also leaving out a bunch of games.

2014 at FSU (ND 470 to 323 total yards advantage)
ND rushing
35/157
FSU Rushing
26/50

2014 Loss vs. #9ASU got beaten badly on the ground
2014 bowl win vs. LSU both teams ran well
2015 loss at Stanford ND ran for 300 yards to 153 for Stanford
2017 win vs. #11 USC ND ran for 399 yards to 76 for USC
2017 bowl win vs. #17LSU, 152 to 170 yards
2018 win vs. #7 Stanford, 272 to 55 rushing yards advantage
2018 win vs. #12 Syracuse, 171 to 119 rushing yards advantage

 

[88ND]

Obviously if you cannot run nor stop the run then you’re not going to win outside of luck. But if you can do one or the other you can win and teams do that. You’re also leaving out a bunch of games.

2014 at FSU (ND 470 to 323 total yards advantage)
ND rushing
35/157
FSU Rushing
26/50

2014 Loss vs. #9ASU got beaten badly on the ground
2014 bowl win vs. LSU both teams ran well
2015 loss at Stanford ND ran for 300 yards to 153 for Stanford
2017 win vs. #11 USC ND ran for 399 yards to 76 for USC
2017 bowl win vs. #17LSU, 152 to 170 yards
2018 win vs. #7 Stanford, 272 to 55 rushing yards advantage
2018 win vs. #12 Syracuse, 171 to 119 rushing yards advantage

Perhaps I should've specified more...

The very biggest games in the last dozen years.
In particular against top competition when we were hovering around the top as well.....to measure just where we are vs. the elite teams and or true marquee matchups that could launch the voter perception.

One must think how could ND have just one win vs. a top 5
In my opinion there are 13 top tier games (at least at that moment) and how could we possibly go 2-11 in those games. One of those two wins was finally against a top 5 opponent....but...in a weird covid season against their second QB.

That many games you'd think we'd luck into a few more wins...like the other team fumbling several times....just some bad luck for them.
Such isn't the case but it's pretty damn clear looking into the stats why we've such a lousy record in these games.
It's so bad that if we forfeited all thirteen games we only give up two of the thirteen.

I can see this being possible if we weren't very good yearly and our regular season schedule always had a Clemson/Bama/OSU type teams but no.
We are ranked right up there with them so we are at least within striking distance of them. As in we play lights out and they don't we can pull some upsets.
None of that happened

 

[mmboys07]

There is a reason alright we have had such poor success over the last dozen years....( yes this goes back further but let's look at what was supposed to be our program is back era)

Here is the biggest games in the past dozen years

2012
@ Oklahoma
ND rushing
39/215
OU rushing
24/15
Win! 30-13

2012 Bama BCS game
ND rushing
19/32
Bama rushing
45/265
Loss!

2015 @ Clemson
ND rushing
32/111
CU rushing
43/212
Loss!! 22-24

2015 Fiesta vs. OSU
ND Rushing
32/121
OSU rushing
54/285
Loss!!! 28-44

2016
38 dropbacks in standing water and a hurricane....
we'll forget about 2016!!

2017
vs. UGA
ND rushing
37/55
UGA rushing
43/185
Loss!!!! 19-20

2017 @ Miami
ND rushing
36/109
UM rushing
42/237
Loss!!!!! 8-41

2018 Playoff vs, Clemson
ND rushing
35/88
Clemson rushing
37/211
Loss!!!!!! 3-30

2019 @ UGA
ND rushing
14/46
UGA rushing
33/152
Loss!!!!!!! 17-23

2019 @ Michigan
ND rushing
31/47
Michigan rushing
57/303
Loss!!!!!!!!! 14-45

2020 vs Clemson
ND rushing
40/208
Clemson rushing
33/34
Win!! 47-40

2020 vs Clemson ACC
ND rushing
30-44
Clemson rushing
27/219
Loss!!!!!!!!!!10-34

2020 Playoff (1/1/21)
ND rushing
38/139
Bama rushing
25/140
Loss!!!!!!!!!!!!! 14-31

2021 Fiesta Bowl vs OkSU
ND rushing
21/42
OkSU
44/234
Loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 35-37


Isn't it odd that every other year or so we have this allegedly top offensive line in the land...so they say....
yet in the biggest of games we just can't run.
The backs really not that good? The line overrated? Coaching? Scheme?

either way it's wrong...something...perhaps all of it.

We suck at the QB spot too which doesn't help much be we are even worse at running the ball in the biggest of games.

It's the old school way of football present day. can't run...can't stop the run....NOT GOING TO WIN!!!

Great break down. The lack of a top QB and failure to run the ball against top teams go together. A balanced attack is needed to win consistently, especially against good teams.

 

[88ND]

Good post. It really is amazing how much ND struggles against the elite teams.

In that Clemson game Kyren had a 65 yarder for a TD also that skews the stats some. The Clemson safety probably should have made that tackle to keep it to 10-15 yards. Even if you subtract 50 yards from that run its still about 3.8 yards per carry, which isn’t terrible, so maybe its not fair to even subtract the majority of the yards from that run.

One thing I have noticed when ND plays elite teams is one of their particular runs plays does tend to get blown up by penetration into the C gap when they ran the particular play. I don’t necessarily think its a talent thing but good scouting by the opponent. I just see it more against the elite teams for some reason. Maybe ND did find a way to counter it that I never picked up on though.

I didn’t see ND run that play once this year though so maybe they scrapped it. ND also scrapped another particular outside run early in the year after FSU and didn’t bring it out again until late in the season and I saw it only once against OSU. Was it because of coaching or inexperience at OL? Not sure but probably the right move so ND can get better at everything else.

Ya know...a few years ago we ran a play that worked against bad teams but lost yardage against good.
Then it stopped working altogether....and they shit canned the play (thankfully)

The infamous east west run that BK absolutely was head over heels in love with.

Without looking on that play we pulled two linemen. It was always the same pair and it was the only play we pulled those exact pair of linemen.

I pointed it out to the board at the time why it didn't work.

The opposition could tell the back seven if these two players go this way at snap...sprint to this side you'll meet the RB.
It was the only play we ran like that so it wasn't unpredictable whatsoever.
In the rare instances it worked we just out athleted the other team. Good teams blew it up instantly.

Then everyone just killed that play.

Then we killed that play...

thankfully !!!

 

[FightingIrish44]

Ya know...a few years ago we ran a play that worked against bad teams but lost yardage against good.
Then it stopped working altogether....and they shit canned the play (thankfully)

The infamous east west run that BK absolutely was head over heels in love with.

Without looking on that play we pulled two linemen. It was always the same pair and it was the only play we pulled those exact pair of linemen.

I pointed it out to the board at the time why it didn't work.

The opposition could tell the back seven if these two players go this way at snap...sprint to this side you'll meet the RB.
It was the only play we ran like that so it wasn't unpredictable whatsoever.
In the rare instances it worked we just out athleted the other team. Good teams blew it up instantly.

Then everyone just killed that play.

Then we killed that play...

thankfully !!!

Yes I think we’re talking about the same play. I like the play but the elite teams seemed to really shut it down.

 

[Patrirish]

There is a reason alright we have had such poor success over the last dozen years....( yes this goes back further but let's look at what was supposed to be our program is back era)

Here is the biggest games in the past dozen years

2012
@ Oklahoma
ND rushing
39/215
OU rushing
24/15
Win! 30-13

2012 Bama BCS game
ND rushing
19/32
Bama rushing
45/265
Loss!

2015 @ Clemson
ND rushing
32/111
CU rushing
43/212
Loss!! 22-24

2015 Fiesta vs. OSU
ND Rushing
32/121
OSU rushing
54/285
Loss!!! 28-44

2016
38 dropbacks in standing water and a hurricane....
we'll forget about 2016!!

2017
vs. UGA
ND rushing
37/55
UGA rushing
43/185
Loss!!!! 19-20

2017 @ Miami
ND rushing
36/109
UM rushing
42/237
Loss!!!!! 8-41

2018 Playoff vs, Clemson
ND rushing
35/88
Clemson rushing
37/211
Loss!!!!!! 3-30

2019 @ UGA
ND rushing
14/46
UGA rushing
33/152
Loss!!!!!!! 17-23

2019 @ Michigan
ND rushing
31/47
Michigan rushing
57/303
Loss!!!!!!!!! 14-45

2020 vs Clemson
ND rushing
40/208
Clemson rushing
33/34
Win!! 47-40

2020 vs Clemson ACC
ND rushing
30-44
Clemson rushing
27/219
Loss!!!!!!!!!!10-34

2020 Playoff (1/1/21)
ND rushing
38/139
Bama rushing
25/140
Loss!!!!!!!!!!!!! 14-31

2021 Fiesta Bowl vs OkSU
ND rushing
21/42
OkSU
44/234
Loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 35-37


Isn't it odd that every other year or so we have this allegedly top offensive line in the land...so they say....
yet in the biggest of games we just can't run.
The backs really not that good? The line overrated? Coaching? Scheme?

either way it's wrong...something...perhaps all of it.

We suck at the QB spot too which doesn't help much be we are even worse at running the ball in the biggest of games.

It's the old school way of football present day. can't run...can't stop the run....NOT GOING TO WIN!!!

I was under the impression that Kelly was a pass first proponent.

Add to your exhibit ND’s failures on short yardage situations.

i believe that your exhibit illustrates a systemic flaw in Kelly’s offense

 

[Patrirish]

Great break down. The lack of a top QB and failure to run the ball against top teams go together. A balanced attack is needed to win consistently, especially against good teams.

It’s got nothing to do with the QB

 

[88ND]

I was under the impression that Kelly was a pass first proponent.

Add to your exhibit ND’s failures on short yardage situations.

i believe that your exhibit illustrates a systemic flaw in Kelly’s offense

Ya know...it's a bit weird...

BK was a defensive player,
defensive coach early on before taking over the head coaching position @ GVS

I've said it jokingly before but I'd bet there's some truth to it.
I think he really wanted to play QB growing up but couldn't.
When he got his own team he just couldn't resist getting all intertwined with the offense.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Ya know...it's a bit weird...

BK was a defensive player,
defensive coach early on before taking over the head coaching position @ GVS

I've said it jokingly before but I'd bet there's some truth to it.
I think he really wanted to play QB growing up but couldn't.
When he got his own team he just couldn't resist getting all intertwined with the offense.

I get the sense he was more hands off with regard to the defense. One of his shortcomings.

 

[88ND]

I get the sense he was more hands off with regard to the defense. One of his shortcomings.

Absolutely...he had nothing to do with it.
It's just odd because ex players are usually involved with their side of the ball.
He was involved with defense until he got his team then it was all offense.

I can't think of another coaching example like this.