Kelly vs good teams

[Java65]

There has been a lot of discussion on this site about Kelly's inability to beat good teams. He has never won a BCS game, major bowl, been to playoff and of course a national title. So for the fans that still doubt this take a look at the stat below which is Kelly's record vs teams that finished the year with 4 losses or less 10-18
4-loss teams: 4-4
• 3-loss teams: 3-3
• 2-loss teams: 2-6
• 1-loss teams: 1-4
• 0-loss teams: 0-1

Fortunately, for Kelly he has played the easiest 6 year schedule in ND history and has played few good teams compared to previous coaches. The percentages go even lower when non power 5 teams like Temple and Navy are excluded. Kelly owes a lot to Swarbrick for his crafty scheduling helping cover up Kelly's inability to coach his team up for big games

This is a little misleading. Nobody in the history of sports has beaten a team that finishes a season undefeated.

That said you certainly have to count these 3 games as big wins, 2011 MSU who's only other loss was to Wisky in the Big10 Champ. 2013 MSU, we handed them their only loss. 2012 OU in their house.

You are correct about our performance in major bowl games, not only have we never won but we have been embarrassed.

 

[perseverare]

most of the incoming Fr. class were probably not born the last time ND won a major bowl game!

A generation.

 

[cgvr]

This is a little misleading. Nobody in the history of sports has beaten a team that finishes a season undefeated.

That said you certainly have to count these 3 games as big wins, 2011 MSU who's only other loss was to Wisky in the Big10 Champ. 2013 MSU, we handed them their only loss. 2012 OU in their house.

You are correct about our performance in major bowl games, not only have we never won but we have been embarrassed.

There's nothing misleading about it. He looked at the final records of our competition. We had a chance to beat an undefeated team and didn't.

 

[Java65]

There's nothing misleading about it. He looked at the final records of our competition. We had a chance to beat an undefeated team and didn't.

By definition NOBODY beats an undefeated team. Every school from the beginning of time is 0 and XXXX against undefeated. If you beat a team that only has 1 loss at the end of the season, you still haven't beaten a team that finishes the year unbeaten. It's an impossibility.

That's like saying BK starts every season undefeated.

 

[vivalas]

I do remember what he took over at Stanford.....but the man produced one winning year. He did an admirable job at michigan this year. How does that put him in the top 5?? Kelly took over a crappy team as well and had them in the national championship game in his third year. I'm not putting Harbaugh down but everyone wants to act like there is better coaching out there. I don't see it. I think Kelly personally is in the top 7 of coaches. I think there are two elite in Saban and Meyer....that's it

 

[cgvr]

By definition NOBODY beats an undefeated team. Every school from the beginning of time is 0 and XXXX against undefeated. If you beat a team that only has 1 loss at the end of the season, you still haven't beaten a team that finishes the year unbeaten. It's an impossibility.

That's like saying BK starts every season undefeated.

Yeah, and not everybody plays a a team that finishes the season undefeated. This is not a difficult concept. The poster looked at the final records of teams we lost to and gave an accurate summary. Your notion is far from revelatory and senseless in light of what the op wrote....

 

[ironside1]

How about this?

If ND goes 8-4 next year, I'll leave the board. If they do better than that, you leave.

However, one of your other handles will still be here anyway.

Good question

 

[cgvr]

I do remember what he took over at Stanford.....but the man produced one winning year. He did an admirable job at michigan this year. How does that put him in the top 5?? Kelly took over a crappy team as well and had them in the national championship game in his third year. I'm not putting Harbaugh down but everyone wants to act like there is better coaching out there. I don't see it. I think Kelly personally is in the top 7 of coaches. I think there are two elite in Saban and Meyer....that's it

Your first sentence is incorrect. He took over a 1-11 team and went 4-7, 5-8, 8-5, 12-1

In year 4 they were 12-1 and won the Orange Bowl. Do you know how long Shaw was with him? There's a reason the baton was passed seamlessly. He installed a brand/system on both sides of the ball. After Stanford did you see the NFL record he set?

The guy is one of the best coaches in the game at any level. He's a Ferrari and we have a Delorean....

PS Also, take a look at his record as a player at the college and professional level. He's a monster.

 

[Resurrected PAZ]

Kelly gets out-coached in every big game...end of story.

 

[Resurrected PAZ]

That's not obvious at all. He has a long way to go.

Eat a bagel and post less. Your insights are worthless/

 

[rivals50]

I do remember what he took over at Stanford.....but the man produced one winning year. He did an admirable job at michigan this year. How does that put him in the top 5?? Kelly took over a crappy team as well and had them in the national championship game in his third year. I'm not putting Harbaugh down but everyone wants to act like there is better coaching out there. I don't see it. I think Kelly personally is in the top 7 of coaches. I think there are two elite in Saban and Meyer....that's it

Facts... Harbaugh was coach @ Stanford for 4 years

He had 2 WINING seasons

2007 4-8
2008 5-7
2009 8-5
2010 12-1

That is 7.25 wins/year

In previous 5 years before harbaugh got there stanford was 16-40

That is 3.2 wins/season

So he improved Stanford wins/year by 4.05

By comparison ND was winning 7 games/yr (in previous 5 years before Kelly got here)
So if he was just as good a coach as Harbaugh we should be winning 11.05 games/ year
However we are only winning about 9.1 games/year

 

[hvillebill]

Kelly gets out-coached in every big game...end of story.

Oh God. He's back.

 

[Java65]

I do remember what he took over at Stanford.....but the man produced one winning year. He did an admirable job at michigan this year. How does that put him in the top 5?? Kelly took over a crappy team as well and had them in the national championship game in his third year. I'm not putting Harbaugh down but everyone wants to act like there is better coaching out there. I don't see it. I think Kelly personally is in the top 7 of coaches. I think there are two elite in Saban and Meyer....that's it

I might add Shaw to that list. He's won; 11, 12, 11, 8 & 12 games in the 5 seasons he's been there. He has won 2 Rose Bowls and lost a close game in the Fiesta Bowl his first year. The academic restrictions at Stanford are probably harder than at ND. People thought that Stanford would fall off after Harbaugh left but Shaw has done a tremendous job.

 

[cgvr]

I might add Shaw to that list. He's won; 11, 12, 11, 8 & 12 games in the 5 seasons he's been there. He has won 2 Rose Bowls and lost a close game in the Fiesta Bowl his first year. The academic restrictions at Stanford are probably harder than at ND. People thought that Stanford would fall off after Harbaugh left but Shaw has done a tremendous job.

"In 2006, Shaw left the NFL for the University of San Diego to join head coach Jim Harbaugh's staff as passing game coordinator. The 11–1 Toreros' offense led the NCAA Division I-AA in many statistical categories, including passing offense (293.3 ypg), total offense (494.25 ypg), and scoring offense (42.83 ppg).[1][2]

When Harbaugh was hired as head coach of Shaw's alma mater, Stanford, in 2007, he brought Shaw as offensive coordinator. During his years as an assistant coach, Shaw also coached the Cardinal wide receivers and running backs."

Shaw has close to a decade of NFL coaching under his belt.

In private conversation Shaw fondly referred to JH as "that crazy tornado of a man."

 

[perseverare]

well

this discussion not withstanding, there seems little question about one thing:
Kelly is staying for '16
and
JMO, that is a very good thing. Hopefully he makes some staff tweeks (defense)

 

[Pennick4]

Kelly gets out-coached in every big game...end of story.

Hey nitwit Pagazu is back. Not any brighter but he is back.

 

[IowaIrish1]

These threads and responses would happen less, if some on here didn't blindly follow and not allow for criticism of coach kelly. He deserves the all the criticism. His teams fail to show ready to play for almost every big game he's ever coached in here at ND. Sorry, the trolls have a point and it's best to just not respond.

 

[cgvr]

Hey nitwit Pagazu is back. Not any brighter but he is back.

He's a very exciting poster, with unique style and perspective.

I was going to award him II Poster Rookie of the Year, but his handle got bounced.

I think I'll give him "Comeback Poster of the Year".

Anyone seen argus...let's see if I can summon him.....

Winston is definitely winning the NFL Rookie of the Year and will make the All Rookie Team....

That should do it.....

 

[perseverare]

These threads and responses would happen less, if some on here didn't blindly follow and not allow for criticism of coach kelly. He deserves the all the criticism. His teams fail to show ready to play for almost every big game he's ever coached in here at ND. Sorry, the trolls have a point and it's best to just not respond.

but pendulums swing, you have to be able to recognize both sides. Failure to recognize the program improvements for the sake of being contrary is as wrong as continuous sunshine pumpers who also ignore the actual results or experience.

 

[Granite45]

These threads and responses would happen less, if some on here didn't blindly follow and not allow for criticism of coach kelly. He deserves the all the criticism. His teams fail to show ready to play for almost every big game he's ever coached in here at ND. Sorry, the trolls have a point and it's best to just not respond.

So you agree with posters you call trolls? Sorry, but this is silly.

 

[BGI User 1596]

but pendulums swing, you have to be able to recognize both sides. Failure to recognize the program improvements for the sake of being contrary is as wrong as continuous sunshine pumpers who also ignore the actual results or experience.

Exactly - its only hyperbole trying to cover the obvious limitations.

 

[twalsh]

These threads and responses would happen less, if some on here didn't blindly follow and not allow for criticism of coach kelly. He deserves the all the criticism. His teams fail to show ready to play for almost every big game he's ever coached in here at ND. Sorry, the trolls have a point and it's best to just not respond.

The people who do nothing but criticize Kelly are no better or worse than the people who do nothing but praise him, and neither one brings much to the discussion. He does lots of things that deserve praise, lots of things that deserve criticism, or at least the potential of criticism. Which makes him no different than just about any coach in the country not named Nick Saban or Urban Meyer. Of course, if you were posting after the Bama/Ole Miss game or the OSU/MSU game, both of those guys were worthy of criticism too. As it almost always is, reality lies somewhere in the middle between the two groups of zealots.

 

[perseverare]

being a HC is not really a 1 man job. This staff (with possibly 1 exception) has it going on.

 

[vivalas]

Kelly took a 6-6 team to 8-5, 8-5 12-1, Harbaugh took a 1-11 team to 5-8, 5-7, 8-5, 12-1

How the hell does that make Harbaugh light years better than Kelly? Kelly has improved significantly each job he has been at. I'm not saying he;s the top college coach but it cracks me up how you quickly dismiss him because he was beaten bad by Nick Saban and Urban Meyer. Well guess what urban handed Nick his lunch last year and the year before vice versa. Kelly has beaten Shaw, Stoops, Miles, Harbaugh.......doesn't make him better but he has won big games.

 

[cgvr]

Kelly took a 6-6 team to 8-5, 8-5 12-1, Harbaugh took a 1-11 team to 5-8, 5-7, 8-5, 12-1

How the hell does that make Harbaugh light years better than Kelly? Kelly has improved significantly each job he has been at. I'm not saying he;s the top college coach but it cracks me up how you quickly dismiss him because he was beaten bad by Nick Saban and Urban Meyer. Well guess what urban handed Nick his lunch last year and the year before vice versa. Kelly has beaten Shaw, Stoops, Miles, Harbaugh.......doesn't make him better but he has won big games.

kelly has not beaten Harbaugh. Why did you make that up?

Harbaugh pasted him in SB 37-14 on 9/25/2010 and showed mercy.

You left out that Harbaugh took over a 6-10 49er team and immediately went 13-3.

The 49ers had not had a team above .500 in 8 prior years. Harbaugh went 13-3, 11-4-1, & 12-4.

(prior years 7-9, 2-14, 4-12,7-9, 5-11, 7-9, 8-8, 6-10)

He is the first coach in NFL history to make the conference finals in his first 3 years as HC.

Do you think kelly would have made 3 consecutive NFC conference title games, win one and advance to the Super Bowl? It's comical.

kelly's an above average coach taking advantage of ND's massive institutional strengths.

 

[Java65]

The people who do nothing but criticize Kelly are no better or worse than the people who do nothing but praise him, and neither one brings much to the discussion. He does lots of things that deserve praise, lots of things that deserve criticism, or at least the potential of criticism. Which makes him no different than just about any coach in the country not named Nick Saban or Urban Meyer. Of course, if you were posting after the Bama/Ole Miss game or the OSU/MSU game, both of those guys were worthy of criticism too. As it almost always is, reality lies somewhere in the middle between the two groups of zealots.

I wish I could 'Like' this a million times.