You do understand there is a thing called player average right? We ranked 8th in per player avg in the 23 class.
We finished 12th because other teams took more commits.
Our class last year was very very good
Ideal finish for the 24 class
- Thread starter BaldyNd
- Start date
We finished 12th because other teams took more commits.
Our class last year was very very good
I do pay for one ND site. A really good site. All 3 guys are sharp, and have definitively predicted nothing regarding Lambert.
Lol. Says the guy that compares 11 years to 1 year and wants to make a conclusion.
You are this dense? Compare the average stars, not the rating slot which values quantity over quality
Epic fail
Lol and average player rating is the most accurate …you make the board dumber by the minute
Freeman is allowing this argument to exist at all, and that’s a problem as he should be out recruiting the doubters. that is not currently the case. Get Justin Scott, and things are looking different. We aren’t even close to signing day, so there’s not a whole lot to talk about right now other than trends
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The only argument is such that exists in your mind and the OP’s
Anyone associated with ND and college football agree that MF is recruiting better than BK. It’s apparent
I never said he’s not. That’s the other guys argument. I’m just saying he’s not by much. BK had some good and some mediocre recruiting classes. Comes with the territory when you’re the longest HC in program history. Freeman better close or the composite won’t even go over 260.
Time for a little realism.
Since 2002 ND has finished in the top ten only 7 times, including 2 top-five finishes.
Average is 10-15.
Best percentages of top ten classes by coach = Weis. (We sucked under Weis.)
Coaching matters. Kelly is a good coach. Is he a bad recruiter? Both of his LSU classes are top ten.
Also -- recruiting ratings are kinda bs. Weis recruited 5 star players but did a terrible job across the board.
Add the transfer portal and recruiting rankings become even more irrelevant.
Notre Dame is no longer the top destination for 5* recruits like it was in the 80s and early 90s. Blame academic rigors, South Bend location, (but mostly our non-semi-pro SCC attitude) yada-yada-yada.
ND needs to find the proper model in the semi-pro era to get 5* kids like Meyers, Nelson, Smith, Manti and find kinds like Hamilton, JOK, Alt, Morrison, etc. develop the hell of of them and keep them at ND...
...and then build through the portal (see Hartman.)
Or we can keep yelling and screaming about not having a top five class every year. Is it tough, yeah.... is the solution to hire a coach who is a better recruiter -- I don't see much data that proves that is the case.
Since 2002 ND has finished in the top ten only 7 times, including 2 top-five finishes.
Average is 10-15.
Best percentages of top ten classes by coach = Weis. (We sucked under Weis.)
Coaching matters. Kelly is a good coach. Is he a bad recruiter? Both of his LSU classes are top ten.
Also -- recruiting ratings are kinda bs. Weis recruited 5 star players but did a terrible job across the board.
Add the transfer portal and recruiting rankings become even more irrelevant.
Notre Dame is no longer the top destination for 5* recruits like it was in the 80s and early 90s. Blame academic rigors, South Bend location, (but mostly our non-semi-pro SCC attitude) yada-yada-yada.
ND needs to find the proper model in the semi-pro era to get 5* kids like Meyers, Nelson, Smith, Manti and find kinds like Hamilton, JOK, Alt, Morrison, etc. develop the hell of of them and keep them at ND...
...and then build through the portal (see Hartman.)
Or we can keep yelling and screaming about not having a top five class every year. Is it tough, yeah.... is the solution to hire a coach who is a better recruiter -- I don't see much data that proves that is the case.
"Time for a little realism."
Since the 4-team CFB playoff started in 2014, seven teams have qualified twice. Notre Dame is one of them.
Anyone can cherry pick and go back to a certain year like 2002 to form their own narrative.
No bigger fan than me.
That said, I am not going to convict and criticize Marcus Freeman after one season, a season in which his inexperienced year 2 QB went down in game 2. Talk to me about Freeman in late November,.
It won’t matter how he does bi late November you will not criticize him even if he loses five games. He could go 0-12
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But I'm agreeing with you. We are close. We are also who we are. I believe there is a way to a Championship in this semi-pro college environment for ND. Brian Kelly is one of the top five coaches in college football. Look at his record. He got us close. Can Freeman get us all of the way there?
Hope springs eternal!
Careful for Penn State. They may finish above ND this class and were neck and neck with us last cycle. So maybe 4th soon.
I skimmed through a lot of the last page or so on this topic because I'm lazy but I did pick up on a few comments that I wanted to respond to.
The formula used in the 247 team recruiting rankings deemphasizes quantity for quality. I'm on my phone on voice transcription so Im unable to provide a link at the moment but the model puts most of the emphasis on like the top 10 to 15 players in the class and then de-emphasizes the rest of the players after that as to neutralize the effect of a really large class getting ranked higher than a smaller class with better players. In other words: the recruiting rankings already adjust for smaller-quantity but higher-quality classes.
Also, when you recruit less quantity you can sell this on the recruiting trail "we're only taking 2 guys at your position, come play for us as there's a more clear path to playing time" and coaches aren't spread as thin and get to focus more time on the players they really want. Problem with this approach though is that ND has found itself in this position too many times and they haven't balanced out smaller classes with bigger classes thus have a big hole at the back end of their 85 man roster. It's why walkons/nobody contributors continue to get free rides at ND and ND STILL struggles to fill out their 85 man roster. Point being: recruiting smaller classes is easier and even if the per-recruit-ranking is higher is a problem when you are not balancing it out with higher quantity classes.
The formula used in the 247 team recruiting rankings deemphasizes quantity for quality. I'm on my phone on voice transcription so Im unable to provide a link at the moment but the model puts most of the emphasis on like the top 10 to 15 players in the class and then de-emphasizes the rest of the players after that as to neutralize the effect of a really large class getting ranked higher than a smaller class with better players. In other words: the recruiting rankings already adjust for smaller-quantity but higher-quality classes.
Also, when you recruit less quantity you can sell this on the recruiting trail "we're only taking 2 guys at your position, come play for us as there's a more clear path to playing time" and coaches aren't spread as thin and get to focus more time on the players they really want. Problem with this approach though is that ND has found itself in this position too many times and they haven't balanced out smaller classes with bigger classes thus have a big hole at the back end of their 85 man roster. It's why walkons/nobody contributors continue to get free rides at ND and ND STILL struggles to fill out their 85 man roster. Point being: recruiting smaller classes is easier and even if the per-recruit-ranking is higher is a problem when you are not balancing it out with higher quantity classes.
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