Halfway through 2023, ND ranked 9th in F+

[chaseball]

Top 5
1. Michigan
2. OSU
3. Texas
4. Alabama
5. Georgia

9. Notre Dame

BCF Toys - 2023 F+ Ratings

www.bcftoys.com

Notre Dame has the 15th ranked offense, and the 11th ranked defense in F+ after 6 games/halfway through the season.

Their next opponent Louisville is ranked 33rd overall with the 28th ranked offense, and the 42nd ranked defense.

All in all this has been a slightly above average ND team relative to the BK and MF era. ND has an overall F+ rank at #9 to match their 10-15th talent, and their 10-15th recruiting classes.

 

[Golson5]

What a silly ranking that F- is

 

[NDSMC78]

No one cares about F+.

 

[Irishjohn68]

Is this some kind of BS rating system you made up? This sounds made up.

 

[Fightingirish595]

Any knowledgeable person would be able to look at f+, FEI, and SP+ this year and be able to determine the following

1) there is no juggernaut team

2) the teams are really close

3) Notre dame can realistically win the national championship and beat any team. As it stands they would not be more than a touchdown underdog to anybody on a neautral field. In fact it probably wouldn’t be more than 3 or 4 points to the teams ranked ahead of the


Yet you’re still sitting here selling a narrative that where they are is the same when in reality they’ve closed the gap because they’ve gotten better, and others have regressed.

The gaps between the ranks are not the same every year.

You have a flawed view of this data

 

[chaseball]

Any knowledgeable person would be able to look at f+, FEI, and SP+ this year and be able to determine the following

1) there is no juggernaut team

2) the teams are really close

3) Notre dame can realistically win the national championship and beat any team. As it stands they would not be more than a touchdown underdog to anybody on a neautral field. In fact it probably wouldn’t be more than 3 or 4 points to the teams ranked ahead of the

ND isn't as far behind the tier 1 this year **so far** as they have been in the recent past. But we're still only 5-6 weeks/games into the new season so it's too early to come to any concrete conclusions on that. You still have to put more weight on the track record with full seasons worth of data in the past several years. Also, ND is still WAAAY behind on talent too.

FEI and SP+ combined are F+ no point in breaking the systems down differently when comparing teams wholistically.

Please provide the point differential methodology you are using when translating the team's comparative F+ ratings to points.

your bias is getting in the way of perceiving the data objectively. you won't even acknowledge that the tier 1 teams who have like 10:1 ratio of top 100 players compared to ND are significantly more talented

 

[raulduke_007]

Man this would have been the best year for a 12 team playoff. And l've said before F+ or any other similar site has fatal flaws for CFB because the teams & schedules cant be accurately calculated & quantified.

 

[chaseball]

Man this would have been the best year for a 12 team playoff. And l've said before F+ or any other similar site has fatal flaws for CFB because the teams & schedules cant be accurately calculated & quantified.

You are right, teams and schedules can't be perfectly projected, but they can be projected with enough accuracy that the exercise is still worth while. The data is not perfect but it is better than no data.

 

[raulduke_007]

ND isn't as far behind the tier 1 this year **so far** as they have been in the recent past. But we're still only 5-6 weeks/games into the new season so it's too early to come to any concrete conclusions on that. You still have to put more weight on the track record with full seasons worth of data in the past several years. Also, ND is still WAAAY behind on talent too.

FEI and SP+ combined are F+ no point in breaking the systems down differently when comparing teams wholistically.

Please provide the point differential methodology you are using when translating the team's comparative F+ ratings to points.

your bias is getting in the way of perceiving the data objectively. you won't even acknowledge that the tier 1 teams who have like 10:1 ratio of top 100 players compared to ND are significantly more talented

So after FSU drilled LSU & escaped Clemson that rating site doesnt have them in the top 5? How does Michigan underperform in 4 out of 5 games vs inferior opp's get rated #1? The site's math aint mathin...

 

[NDinNJ]

Alabama ahead Georgia is all you need to know about F+ 😂

 

[chaseball]

So after FSU drilled LSU & escaped Clemson that rating site doesnt have them in the top 5? How does Michigan underperform in 4 out of 5 games vs inferior opp's get rated #1? The site's math aint mathin...

The site uses the most predictive data in college football to rank teams.

What data is predictive? How explosive your offense is, how efficient your drives are, how successful your plays are relative to all other teams plays, etc. How many points you score and how many points you prevent the other team from scoring. How good your opponents are while producing good plays, drives, etc.

What data isn't predictive: turnovers, penalties, special teams, (all which can have a major impact on a game)

You have to suspend the way you are used to seeing team's ranked like the AP, Coaches, or even CFP playoff rankings/polls (which are largely resume rankings) and look at the more granular data at the play by play level with adjustments made for quality of opponent. When it comes to quality of opponent there is a TON of room between the top 25 and the top 133 teams. Some people ignore all that nuance in the middle.

For instance producing a dominant win vs the #40 team is significantly more impactful than producing a dominant win vs the #80 team. And a dominant win isn't just the point total, but all of the individual battles that are taking place over the course of hundreds of plays and dozens of drives during a game.

 

[raulduke_007]

The site uses the most predictive data in college football to rank teams.

What data is predictive? How explosive your offense is, how efficient your drives are, how successful your plays are relative to all other teams plays, etc. How many points you score and how many points you prevent the other team from scoring. How good your opponents are while producing good plays, drives, etc.

What data isn't predictive: turnovers, penalties, special teams, (all which can have a major impact on a game)

You have to suspend the way you are used to seeing team's ranked like the AP, Coaches, or even CFP playoff rankings/polls (which are largely resume rankings) and look at the more granular data at the play by play level with adjustments made for quality of opponent. When it comes to quality of opponent there is a TON of room between the top 25 and the top 133 teams. Some people ignore all that nuance in the middle.

For instance producing a dominant win vs the #40 team is significantly more impactful than producing a dominant win vs the #80 team. And a dominant win isn't just the point total, but all of the individual battles that are taking place over the course of hundreds of plays and dozens of drives during a game.

Auburn is a good example of why these sites are flawed. Got outplayed & should of lost to a below ave Cal team. Their offense looked completely inept vs A&M. But they get #1 rival Georgia at home & outplayed them for 3 1/2 quarters. FSU is basically getting penalized because they struggled vs a bad BC team yet when you look at their Resume I dont think anyone has 2 better wins than nuetral field LSU & away at Clemson. 3 weeks ago Bama was left for dead now because they beat a decent Ole Miss team & a poor MSU team their rated above FSU?

 

[chaseball]

I dont think anyone has 2 better wins than nuetral field LSU & away at Clemson. 3 weeks ago Bama was left for dead now because they beat a decent Ole Miss team & a poor MSU team their rated above FSU?

This is the methodology of a resume ranking. F+ is not a resume ranking.

F+ is more concerned with the total performance of a football team over the course of every single non-garbage-time play accumulated over the course of the entire season up to this point (relative to all others teams accumulative performance over the course of every play), as opposed to simply the quality of your wins (although that does factor into the rating as well, just to a way lesser extent)

In essence FSU is the team that beat clemson and lsu, the team that struggled against BC and everything else in between. They are ALL of their performance so far and are ranked according to that performance (and their performance isn't just the final score, but all of the performance down to the play by play and drive by drive level with an adjustment for luck and opponent quality)

 

[raulduke_007]

This is the methodology of a resume ranking. F+ is not a resume ranking.

F+ is more concerned with the total performance of a football team over the course of every single non-garbage-time play accumulated over the course of the entire season up to this point (relative to all others teams accumulated performance over the course of every play), as opposed to simply the quality of your wins (although that does factor into the rating as well, just to a way lesser extent)

But Bama's body of work doesnt compute that ranking. Texas outplayed Bama the majority of their game it wasnt a fluke loss Texas was just the flat out better team. S. Fla is a subpar team & again Bama struggled. Even Ole Miss & Miss St wins doesnt justify being ahead of FSU. Even OSU & Mich I dont look at those teams and go yup those are the best teams in the country.

 

[sjb75]

I lasted around 10 words. Nausea reading this crap.

 

[chaseball]

But Bama's body of work doesnt compute that ranking. Texas outplayed Bama the majority of their game it wasnt a fluke loss Texas was just the flat out better team. S. Fla is a subpar team & again Bama struggled. Even Ole Miss & Miss St wins doesnt justify being ahead of FSU. Even OSU & Mich I dont look at those teams and go yup those are the best teams in the country.

Did you watch every single play of every single game up to this point in the season to come to those conclusions?

That is the beauty of these algorithmic based ranking systems. These systems are objective (unlike human beings are), and they give us a view that is impossible to get from a human being because these algorithmic based systems account for every single bit of performance of every single game of every single FBS team all the way down to the play by play level and rank teams according to their performance.

 

[raulduke_007]

Did you watch every single play of every single game up to this point in the season to come to those conclusions?

That is the beauty of these algorithmic based ranking systems, they give us a view that is impossible to get from a human being because they account for every single bit of performance of every single game all the way down to the play by play level and rank teams according to their performance.

I did watch all the Texas game, all the Ole Miss and had their Miss St on my 2nd tv. Texas is the better team & it was clear.
Im not claiming im the smartest guy in the room but ill put my depth of expierence vs yours any day. Ive gave you my bio before so not gonna go through it again. IMO your fatal flaw is your reliance on these sites & your ego that you cant learn from people that have more expierence than you. Even the genius ask questions.

 

[chaseball]

I did watch all the Texas game, all the Ole Miss and had their Miss St on my 2nd tv. Texas is the better team & it was clear.
Im not claiming im the smartest guy in the room but ill put my depth of expierence vs yours any day. Ive gave you my bio before so not gonna go through it again. IMO your fatal flaw is your reliance on these sites & your ego that you cant learn from people that have more expierence than you. Even the genius ask questions.

There are certainly weaknesses of an algorithmic based ranking system like F+, but the typical arguments people use to disparage the system -- and even dismiss it entirely -- are just bad arguments. The logic is bad. I'm not going to follow bad logic just because it's popular to do so.

 

[raulduke_007]

There are certainly weaknesses of an algorithmic based ranking system like F+, but the typical arguments people use to disparage the system -- and even dismiss it entirely -- are just bad arguments. The logic is bad. I'm not going to follow bad logic just because it's popular to do so.

Fair enough and i have no problem looking at these sites as a tool but there is more to cappin a game than alghorisms. Take OSU vs KSU going on right now. KSU is a better team on paper KSU looks like an easy win but put OSU on Friday night at home & KSU looking ahead and you got a 13-7 OSU lead and OSU +11 looking like a lock.

 

[Golson5]

Alabama at 4 is a joke and why the system is so poor

Just so bad at ranking teams

 

[Fightingirish595]

Fair enough and i have no problem looking at these sites as a tool but there is more to cappin a game than alghorisms. Take OSU vs KSU going on right now. KSU is a better team on paper KSU looks like an easy win but put OSU on Friday night at home & KSU looking ahead and you got a 13-7 OSU lead and OSU +11 looking like a lock.

These ratings are as best as it gets in terms of public ratings.

There are plenty of professionals who have their own ratings that are better. But they are private.
Also. It’s all alogorithym

The result in the ok st game tonight was 20 points off the spread but that doesn’t mean the spread is wrong.

There’s a reason why people make money doing this

 

[Irishjohn68]

There are certainly weaknesses of an algorithmic based ranking system like F+, but the typical arguments people use to disparage the system -- and even dismiss it entirely -- are just bad arguments. The logic is bad. I'm not going to follow bad logic just because it's popular to do so.

 

[raulduke_007]

These ratings are as best as it gets in terms of public ratings.

There are plenty of professionals who have their own ratings that are better. But they are private.
Also. It’s all alogorithym

The result in the ok st game tonight was 20 points off the spread but that doesn’t mean the spread is wrong.

There’s a reason why people make money doing this

Opps, classic rookie mistake you gotta remember which handle your posting from sport. I was actually trying to be nice and have a legit debate, but you blew your cover.

 

[melstew]

F+ says load up on #16 Kansas State--they are going to crush 60-something OSU Cowboys. Bet the mortgage on Wildcats and you can thank Chase later.

 

[HRC08]

Alabama ahead Georgia is all you need to know about F+ 😂

It’s because of the great recruiting class Alabama had in 2020. 🤓😂
That bit got them over the algorithm.

 

[Fightingirish595]

Opps, classic rookie mistake you gotta remember which handle your posting from sport. I was actually trying to be nice and have a legit debate, but you blew your cover.

This is the kind of post I’d expect from someone with low intellectual ability. Dont tell on yourself like that

 

[raulduke_007]

This is the kind of post I’d expect from someone with low intellectual ability. Dont tell on yourself like that

Cool story Chase

 

[NWI_Irish96]

Any ranking system that ranks Alabama that high is not credible. Got destroyed by Texas, couldn't put up points against South Florida, currently in a dogfight with aTm.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Top 5
1. Michigan
2. OSU
3. Texas
4. Alabama
5. Georgia

9. Notre Dame

BCF Toys - 2023 F+ Ratings

www.bcftoys.com

Notre Dame has the 15th ranked offense, and the 11th ranked defense in F+ after 6 games/halfway through the season.

Their next opponent Louisville is ranked 33rd overall with the 28th ranked offense, and the 42nd ranked defense.

All in all this has been a slightly above average ND team relative to the BK and MF era. ND has an overall F+ rank at #9 to match their 10-15th talent, and their 10-15th recruiting classes.

Not anymore

 

[chaseball]

Not anymore

For sure. ND is going to dip hard in F+ after this shit show. Probably somewhere in the 15-20 range is my guess.

 

[baron100]

What a silly ranking that F- is

Sure is

 

[chaseball]

Anybody else find it funny how halfway through the 2023 season (10-6-23 when this topic was originally made), F+ nailed 3 of the 4 eventual playoff teams? and an argument could even be made that OSU should be in the playoff over Washington anyway.

 

[NIN Irish]

Anybody else find it funny how halfway through the 2023 season (10-6-23 when this topic was originally made), F+ nailed 3 of the 4 eventual playoff teams? and an argument could even be made that OSU should be in the playoff over Washington anyway.

What's funny is this ranking system has 1 out of 4 playoff teams in their final ranking. The other 3 playoff teams are ranked 6,7, and 11.
Oregon lost 2 times to Washington and still ranked 2nd with this ranking. That's funny.
Penn State #5. LSU with 3 losses is #9. Yeah f- is a joke ranking system.

 

[chaseball]

What's funny is this ranking system has 1 out of 4 playoff teams in their final ranking. The other 3 playoff teams are ranked 6,7, and 11.
Oregon lost 2 times to Washington and still ranked 2nd with this ranking. That's funny.
Penn State #5. LSU with 3 losses is #9. Yeah f- is a joke ranking system.

The job of the system is to provide a reference not nail every single team right down to the tee.

After only 6 weeks of game data the system was already accurately able to give us a snapshot of 3 of the eventual 4 playoff teams and nail down 4 of the top 6 teams in the country as ranked by the playoff committee. Impressive.

Basically what this translates to next year, is at the halfway mark of 2024, whoever F+ has ranked as their top 5 teams or so, is probably going to give us a really good look at what the eventual top 5 in the CFP ranking will be by the end of the year.

 

[NIN Irish]

The job of the system is to provide a reference not nail every single team right down to the tee.

After only 6 weeks of game data the system was already accurately able to give us a snapshot of 3 of the eventual 4 playoff teams and nail down 4 of the top 6 teams in the country as ranked by the playoff committee. Impressive.

Anyone could pick the top 3/4 playoff teams after week 6 of the season. The system would've been better off ending the rankings after week 6, and looked a little better. Instead their final ranking, which is most important, only has 1/4 playoff teams in their final ranking. So, not impressive.

 

[Golson5]

Anybody else find it funny how halfway through the 2023 season (10-6-23 when this topic was originally made), F+ nailed 3 of the 4 eventual playoff teams? and an argument could even be made that OSU should be in the playoff over Washington anyway.

No you can't make that argument

 

[IrishExpert2288]

Seriously, you and Draymond Green both need immediate psychiatric care. Psst…F+, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real.

 

[Colombia2003]

ahhhh F+....you don't say.....what the fook is it?

 

[Pennick4]

ahhhh F+....you don't say.....what the fook is it?

It is a bunch of nonsense put together by nerds.

 

[BGI User 1596]

The job of the system is to provide a reference not nail every single team right down to the tee.

After only 6 weeks of game data the system was already accurately able to give us a snapshot of 3 of the eventual 4 playoff teams and nail down 4 of the top 6 teams in the country as ranked by the playoff committee. Impressive.

Basically what this translates to next year, is at the halfway mark of 2024, whoever F+ has ranked as their top 5 teams or so, is probably going to give us a really good look at what the eventual top 5 in the CFP ranking will be by the end of the year.

That’s interesting, please keep the board updated of any further developments..