Grade The Coaches...
- Thread starter stu4don
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We had a thread "ND's first offensive play of the game"
I called it, "time out" , remember?
It is obvious to me that you know nothing about football. That was scripted. It's called the "haha we fooled you we're not starting yet play." Again, it's diabolical and meant to disrupt an opposing team's rhythm. It's tactically brilliant because no one expects it. PS. Another site predicted the first play. Fade right, fade left, and a timeout were the front runners.
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The bc game took us out of the playoff picture. The committee was treating us more than fairly keeping us in until then. I don't think beating Stanford would have been enough....
I'm not saying beating Stanford would have been enough. I said it was debatable even with a Stanford win. My point is that Brian Kelly has turned around the program. His teams win 8, 9, 10 games a year. His team in 2012 played for the title. That is good at most schools. But this is Notre Dame. Home of 11 national championships and seven Heisman trophy winners. Yes, the college game has changed, but have the expectations at Notre Dame. I don't think so. At least, I haven't heard anyone say the expectations have. I have no doubt Brian Kelly and his coaches and players are hungry for a national championship. It would be huge for the university, for the players, the alums and for Kelly himself. The question is, what does a good coach have to do to become great. Great, in my mind, means winning a national title. How does Coach Kelly get the program from where it is now to that national championship? Can he do it? For example, Doug Collins was a good basketball coach, but the Bulls replaced him with Phil Jackson, in part, because they believed he could take the Bulls and Jordan to the next level. Has Kelly plateaued at Notre Dame? Can anyone take this program to the next level given the current standards the university has determined it wants for the program or given other recruiting variables that have been outlined on this board many times (climate, girls, social life, etc.)? This isn't a knock on Kelly. But I'm curious as to how the coaches on the board, and I use that term respectfully and apologize for knocking them in the past, do that very thing in their programs. For example, a program can have a consistent routine that works for players and coaches, but what if it only gets you to a certain level in the playoffs or to the championship game and not over the top. What do you as a coach do, and what have you done for that matter, to take the next step, given the variables you deal with where you coach? Is that something Kelly needs to do? Thanks.
I'll take the results under Kelly. Am I completely satisfied, absolutely not. But he has us in the conversation again in a real way -- and the days of getting crushed by Michigan or USC are over -- and I believe we had the talent to be a top four team last year. We just got hit hard by injuries again. So he is doing a solid job recruiting (B+), very solid job program building (A), and, for the most part, I like his game planning but agree he can frustrate at times. And, I do like (except our d-coordinator) the coaches he has around him.
And, no, I really have no right to grade him... other than I live and breathe ND football. Go Irish.
And, no, I really have no right to grade him... other than I live and breathe ND football. Go Irish.
This post is not meant to be all inclusive, but a general "birds-eye" view.
For starters, kelly has established zero brand on either side of the ball other than inconsistency. He has no brand. He has no clue. Heck, it took him over half a decade to figure out how to get plays in at ND. He needs to embrace our hallmark brand which is intellectual and physical brutality. Stanford has embraced this concept. That's out of his element. (However, the Oklahoma... fsu games gave me hope then poof it's gone.) He's all over the map.
He needs a total attitude adjustment. He has zero class and regularly embarrasses himself and the school. He and his temper are his own worst enemies. He's pompous, arrogant, narcissistic, vulgar & lacks credibility among other things. He's not a guy that leads well in battle. He connives, schemes and wilts. In fact, while prepping to lead the biggest game of his career he was simultaneously plotting his exit strategy with one foot out the door. It's who he is...
So, he bolted on cmu's bowl game. He bolted on his undefeated cinci team's bowl game. He then held form and tried to bolt on us within 24 hours of our bowl loss and didn't resurface for days. He lacks loyalty.
He also lacks the humility to know that he has zero chance of coaching an NFL team. Yet, he states that for him to coach in the NFL he needs full control over personnel. Yeah, let's let the 10 year old take the Ferrari for a ride. He's insufferable with that nonsense. Dear Lord, what NFL team would possibly give him that? There are a handful of coaches that have/had that privilege. For him to believe he is in that league is a testament to his lunacy/arrogance.
He has a guy coaching the defensive side of the ball that feeds his ego. Both believe that they are playing chess while others are playing checkers. They both stink. Thank the Lord above that we have some good guys on staff. kelly gets by being an average coach with a colossus behind him. He's unimpressive. I was under the impression when he came on board that we were getting a polished head coach. He's far from it.
At the end of the day kelly regularly provides proof that he is nothing more than a disgusting loose cannon coupled with being a scatter brain.
He needs an epiphany on leadership, self control, discipline.....
PS After all his crap coaching he then has the nerve to regularly embarrass himself. This video sums up why he'll never climb the mountain.... He needs to look in a mirror when stating the following.
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Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
You talk about Brian Kelly having no class. What a hypocrite. You are the most classless living organism that ever crawled the Earth.
I read your posts regularly cgvr, and I know that you often back up what you say with facts even in the face of all-out attacks. Coach Kelly has the Irish on the upswing. Offensively, they can compete with anyone. The offensive line is solid. I think there is good depth at the skill positions. Defensively, they have issues, as everyone knows. They also lost some solid contributors on defense from last season. If they can fill those holes on defense and the coaching improves, the schedule lends itself to at least 10 wins. I think Kelly is the best fit for Notre Dame right now. I'm not sure there is anyone out there who is available who is better. That being said, I think Kelly is open to criticism at times for some of his play-calling. I'm sure his sideline behavior could be better, but even Lou Holtz had his moments. I'm not sure Kelly finishes out his contract though, especially if he can't deliver regular appearances into the college football playoff. At some point, even Coach Kelly's ardent defenders have to expect that he's going to turn the corner with the program and make it a viable playoff contender if not national title contender on a regular basis. That's why I asked earlier, what does he have to do to go from good to great? Hire better assistant coaches? Better recruiters? Try to obtain help from admissions to get players in who might have a hard time getting in now? Better strength and conditioning program to avoid injuries? Get advice from outside the program? I don't know. There are people who coach for a living on this board who make no bones about letting the rest of us know it. I respect that. My question to them is, have you been in a situation where you have reached a certain level of success but wanted more and had to change things up to get there. What did you do to go from good to great? In your opinion, can Kelly do the same? If you think so, what should he do or think about doing?
so who would you prefer that is a realistic option ? easiest thing to do is complain. how about some well thought out analysis of prospective options ? oh wait, my bad. i forgot who i was responding to. you haven't had a well thought out opinion yet.
couldn't agree more. i don't think any coach can keep nd at the top given the way the administration chooses to have the football program run now. the top guys (saban,meyer) would never work under those types of restrictions. i honestly believe nd is at a point where they are certainly going to be in the hunt but not continually dominant. they can't get the type of defensive players an alabama lands. most wouldn't qualify. thats just the reality of it. personally i think kelly is the right guy at the right time. i mean what better option even showed a hint of interest in the last 4 coaching searches ? some here will do nothing but complain but NEVER offer what they think would be a viable, better alternative. i think true nd fans continue to support and hope the breaks go their way every few years and they make the playoff. kelly will continue to run his program as he sees fit as it should be. you always try to find ways to improve. the haters are going to hate no matter what.
the top teams, ohio st, alabama have better players period. some of those players had offers from notre dame. many did not. a successful coach like kelly has a philosophy and sticks to it. all successful ones do. i just don't think its realistic to expect nd to always be at the top given the current landscape of college football and i for one am ok with that.
I suppose the question needs to be answered if real Notre Dame fans would want to be like the Bama's, OSU's and even worse, a place like FSU, taking any player just to win games never bothering with the shame they may bring the University off the field or by scoffing and the goal of attaining a degree and actually attending school.
If you think you are a Notre Dame fan and would even consider mirroring such filth you should never root for the Irish again.
If you think you are a Notre Dame fan and would even consider mirroring such filth you should never root for the Irish again.
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"...and the days of getting crushed by Michigan or USC are over-...."
stu4don
"beware the ides of March"
soothsayer (Shakespeare)
stu4don
"beware the ides of March"
soothsayer (Shakespeare)
IMO, play calling is not as big a deal and time consuming as many think. It's the prep work before the games; creating the playbook for that game, working out the situational plays, scouting the other defense. Play calling is a residue of the week before.
IMO, I think Kelly should give all of that up and focus on being the CEO with oversight on; offense, defense, ST and recruiting. Kelly is a great recruiter and more times than not when he gets involved ND does well. It's not that I don't think he's a terrible OC, I'd just like to see more of his week free from OC duties and spent on the other areas.
See, I don't think it needs to be "all or nothing". ND can make changes. Like everything in life, times change and you need to change. That doesn't mean you have to become Bama or O$U but you can't continue to do things exactly the same way you did 30 years ago and expect success.
it was not till late in the season that DK mentioned that Sanford as getting a larger role in play calling; so up to that point....
Good grief, talk about extremes. Is Kelly perfect? No but he has done a fantastic job in rebuilding the program by instilling a winning attitude, recruiting much better athletes and developing them. I'm not sure there are many other coaches out there that could do a better job than Kelly at this given all of the restrictions at ND.
That said, BK is not the best game day coach. IMO, he's made a lot of critical mistakes which have cost us games over the years.
So the gamble is do you find a coach that is a better game day coach and hope he can recruit and develop players as well or do you stick with Kelly knowing he's going to put a squad on the field that can win every game but he'll likely make a lot of mistakes that could cost you games? This is why I continue to be on the fence about BK.
That said, BK is not the best game day coach. IMO, he's made a lot of critical mistakes which have cost us games over the years.
So the gamble is do you find a coach that is a better game day coach and hope he can recruit and develop players as well or do you stick with Kelly knowing he's going to put a squad on the field that can win every game but he'll likely make a lot of mistakes that could cost you games? This is why I continue to be on the fence about BK.
and before that denbrock was calling the plays not kelly.
Thank you. We had a good year on offense which was coupled with an abysmal historic failure on defense.
These quotes from Bill Polian give me no hope....
http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/12/23/247898/
“You need veterans to make that defense work,” Polian said. “First of all, the players thrived in another system – in a simple, straight forward, very easy to understand, very easy to communicate system where there was constant repetition of the same thing, over and over again, taught in a very straight-forward way. And the techniques were geared toward what the players could do, what their skill sets were, and the plans were constructed around the players and what they could do.
“Rex’s defense is just the opposite. It is not straight forward. It’s exceedingly complex. There is no carry over learning from one week to the next. There’s exceedingly complex language. There are exceedingly complex checks that have to be made at the line of scrimmage. There is a guy designated to make those checks. It was” linebacker “Ray Lewis in Baltimore and it was” safety “Jimmy Leonhard with the Jets, who literally could not put one foot in front of the other at the end of his career.
“I remember asking one of the Jets’ coaches during the offseason, ‘How in God’s name can you put Jimmy Leonhard on the field?’ He said, ‘No one else can translate the defense, no one else can get everybody lined up.’”
Yesterday's article from Keith Arnold makes it worse.
http://irish.nbcsports.com/2016/03/30/vangorder-looks-for-solutions-within-his-scheme/
"Billed as a mad scientist and Xs and Os specialist when he came to South Bend, that reputation has been thrown back in VanGorder’s face by those looking for answers for the defense’s mental breakdowns. When asked about finding a more simplified approach to delivering the message, VanGorder pushed back on the entire idea of dumbing things down.
“A player that comes here and plays in our defense, he’s going to put a lot of tools in his toolbox. It’s not just wild tools thrown from all over. It’s pretty consistent from the player,” VanGorder said. “It’s likeable and it’s learnable. That’s how we approach it. We’ve got smart players.”
kelly needs an epiphany. He thinks he's better than he is. He needs to establish a physical identity on both sides of the ball. He needs to control himself...among other things. I wish swarbrick would hire an outside consultant(s) to review the program. (Parcells, ....)
PS I was not a big fan of Lou Holtz either, but respected his style of play. It's a different era altogether and the spotlight has never been brighter. Unfortunately, kelly has shined very poorly more often than not. After kelly's lunacy against Grimes he had one of his finest moments the following week. After Wimbush fumbled against Pitt in the closing moments leading to a touchdown kelly turned his back on the field and controlled his ballistic temper.
This is a completely ridiculous statement and obviously you've never coached a down of football in your life. For starters, if it was the 1st game of the year then you prepared your football team based on what your opponent ran the year before. Did it it occur to you that the opponent had 6 weeks of fall practice and could of put in a new wrinkle or two?
Did it also occur to you that the QB (Golson) was an emotional wreck and had little to no ability under game pressure to read defensive fronts, call pass protections and check in and out of plays?
I suppose that is Brian Kelly's fault also? Except for the fact Rees, Zaire and Kizer had no issues handling the same duties. The game is SO EASY from the comfort of the stands or your couch. But the reality is that this stuff is extraordinarily difficult and Brian Kelly is among the best at teaching it.
stu:
That was football related reply. USC will once again be USC and UM is building a real strong team under a ruthless HC.
Remember your words in a year or two.
That was football related reply. USC will once again be USC and UM is building a real strong team under a ruthless HC.
Remember your words in a year or two.
Broken down HS coaches with limps as their lifetime badge of honor provide grand humor on this board. It's a real football mensa society. Reread your post and think, this is what happens when poor preparation meets good preparation. Then things will start to make sense to you.
When you couple this incident with our having 12 men on the field to start another season....what's the excuse? I will await an interesting bumbling diatribe.
Repeat.... 12 guys on the field to start a season and the guy that wasn't supposed to be out there was an offensive captain.... Seriously, who benches their captain on an opening play? It's hysterical.
really ? care to have a rational debate on football ? let's have at it. prepare for a total beating.
Sanford didn't call plays all year long. It was Denbrock who was the play caller.
Are you saying kelly was lying?
“We are going to collaborate,” Kelly said.
The “we” in the equation Mike Sanford, Mike Denbrock and Kelly.
“I'm just not going to give you much more than all three of us are collaborating. How it comes out to the signaller, we're all in unison as to how we want the game to unfold.
“So we are all going to be working off the same play sheet. We are going to all be working off the same openers. We are going to all be working off the same down and distance sheet. So whether it's coming out of Mike or Mike or Brian's lips, is really immaterial as far as I'm concerned.”
Denbrock called the plays with input from BK and Sanford. That is a fact jack.
