Deshone Kizer?

[Bodizephax]

I think he will be an NFL QB but so far he is just an average college QB. He could be a great college QB but he seems to "fall asleep" during parts of games. He still makes quite a few turnovers and takes quite a few sacks when he should just throw the ball away.
He always brings ND back in games but never finishes and with his skill set he should be piling up the points like last year against Pitt to blow teams out so there would be no need for a comeback.
Last year at Clemson he was terrible in the first half. Against Stanford he had a crucial fumble before half. Many people, including me, said he had the "it" factor but I don't believe it anymore. Joe Montana had the "it" factor because his comebacks brought victories. Brady Quinn and Jimmy C played with consistency as upperclassman.
Maybe Coach Kelly is not teaching him well enough. I don't know.

*** I think Kizer needs to continue to be the starter but his play needs to be more consistent. He needs to silence the doubters and start focusing and playing "flawless ball" and get the Irish on a winning streak.

*** Maybe with BVG gone the defense will play better and there will be less on Kizers shoulders.

Go Irish !!
Beat the Orangemen !!

 

[BGI User 348]

Yep....agree!!! Montana was great cause he WON with comebacks. DK so far goes 3 & out in clutch time.

GET BETTER!!!!

 

[Toby Smart]

Coach Denbrock felt that perhaps DK was putting too much pressure on himself to win games. Apparently, he had a talk with DK about being a piece of puzzle on the team but not the whole puzzle. He doesn't want DK to feel that he is the one that has to win every game. Coach went on to say that there are plenty of other areas of this team that need improvement to help DK out. Heard the Bears are real interested in DK. This according to a "Chicago Bear expert" on sports radio.

 

[Telx1]

Interesting post Bodi. I agree that Kizer is not a great college QB, but I think he is damn good and way above average; and I think he has the potential to be great. He makes a lot of great throws look ordinary, but then he also misses some wide open receivers, and he continues to make the occasional dumb throw. He has all the tools, including football IQ, to be great. Right now, he's fourteen games into his college career as a starter, and he's playing with nearly 100% turnover among his receivers, and the defense is putting a ton of pressure on him to score big from behind. We need to see Kizer play at his high level consistently the entire game, each game, and we'll be talking about his greatness when he does. If he continues to have these occasional lapses, then damn good is his ceiling. I expect the former.

 

[Get Nasty]

Interesting post Bodi. I agree that Kizer is not a great college QB, but I think he is damn good and way above average; and I think he has the potential to be great. He makes a lot of great throws look ordinary, but then he also misses some wide open receivers, and he continues to make the occasional dumb throw. He has all the tools, including football IQ, to be great. Right now, he's fourteen games into his college career as a starter, and he's playing with nearly 100% turnover among his receivers, and the defense is putting a ton of pressure on him to score big from behind. We need to see Kizer play at his high level consistently the entire game, each game, and we'll be talking about his greatness when he does. If he continues to have these occasional lapses, then damn good is his ceiling. I expect the former.

I think part of the problem is we've tried to force the run this year to set up the pass instead of using the pass to set up the run. We came out slinging vs duke, scored 14 quick, then started running first down, second down, and then he made some mistakes on 3rd downs. Texas, once we started slinging it we lit fire in the 3rd and then back to run in the fourth on first and second down and we stalled. Same with michigan state, for the first 35 minutes we tried to run, run, pass.

THis team's strength is clearly a little tempo, pass blocking, pass catching, running after the catch, sprinkled in with some run and qb sneaks.

 

[1Redrum]

Kizer is a good QB who has the physical tools to be a good to great NFL QB. If he is going to go in the first round, never mind first over all he will go. The reality is he and a future NFL team would likely be best served if he played one more year. I may feel different and he may progress further by the end of the season but another year will only help him. He is likely gone if you believe the early mock drafts but I would imagine it would be Heisman and crazy good numbers next year with most / all of the receivers coming back, less change on the o-line and likely better TE play.

 

[shooter1977]

Kizer is 9-6 as a starter. I know it's different eras, but Golson was 20-6 and Rees was 21-9 and they were crushed on this message board. Kizer put up nice numbers against Texas, but Cal's QB actually put up better numbers against the same defense. At 1-3 maybe give Zaire some specialized packages? Maybe he brings some energy to the huddle.

 

[Telx1]

Nasty, totally agree thus far, but reluctantly. Still have a hard time accepting we are not a more dominant running team. Folston looks rusty and maybe having lost a step, and Adams looks tentative. Williams looks very good to outstanding. The left side of the line has played the run average at best. On paper, we have the right pieces to be a dominant run first team, but the game isn't played on paper, and I understand why the coaches keep trying to assert here. After four games against average talent, maybe it is time to accept their strengths and weaknesses and emphasize the pass first as you suggest.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

I think he will be an NFL QB but so far he is just an average college QB. He could be a great college QB but he seems to "fall asleep" during parts of games. He still makes quite a few turnovers and takes quite a few sacks when he should just throw the ball away.
He always brings ND back in games but never finishes and with his skill set he should be piling up the points like last year against Pitt to blow teams out so there would be no need for a comeback.
Last year at Clemson he was terrible in the first half. Against Stanford he had a crucial fumble before half. Many people, including me, said he had the "it" factor but I don't believe it anymore. Joe Montana had the "it" factor because his comebacks brought victories. Brady Quinn and Jimmy C played with consistency as upperclassman.
Maybe Coach Kelly is not teaching him well enough. I don't know.

*** I think Kizer needs to continue to be the starter but his play needs to be more consistent. He needs to silence the doubters and start focusing and playing "flawless ball" and get the Irish on a winning streak.

*** Maybe with BVG gone the defense will play better and there will be less on Kizers shoulders.

Go Irish !!
Beat the Orangemen !!

This is typical .. Ridiculous. DK brought us back against both Clemson and Stanford last year, but for dropped passes and a crappy defense, he wins both them games. He also brought us back to a win at Temple and Virginia. This year the offense is averaging 37 points a game. 37! and your gonna blame him for the losses. Give me a break. Has he made mistakes, of course, all QB's do. But 37!!!!! Points a game!

 

[BGI User 1596]

This is typical .. Ridiculous. DK brought us back against both Clemson and Stanford last year, but for dropped passes and a crappy defense, he wins both them games. He also brought us back to a win at Temple and Virginia. This year the offense is averaging 37 points a game. 37! and your gonna blame him for the losses. Give me a break. Has he made mistakes, of course, all QB's do. But 37!!!!! Points a game!

He has had to carry the team so far - he is a very fine QB.

 

[zonairish]

Bodi, agree 100%. I also think like you the way the defense play its affecting the mentality of the whole team.

 

[Sarah_Plain_And_Tall]

I think he will be an NFL QB but so far he is just an average college QB. He could be a great college QB but he seems to "fall asleep" during parts of games. He still makes quite a few turnovers and takes quite a few sacks when he should just throw the ball away.
He always brings ND back in games but never finishes and with his skill set he should be piling up the points like last year against Pitt to blow teams out so there would be no need for a comeback.
Last year at Clemson he was terrible in the first half. Against Stanford he had a crucial fumble before half. Many people, including me, said he had the "it" factor but I don't believe it anymore. Joe Montana had the "it" factor because his comebacks brought victories. Brady Quinn and Jimmy C played with consistency as upperclassman.
Maybe Coach Kelly is not teaching him well enough. I don't know.

*** I think Kizer needs to continue to be the starter but his play needs to be more consistent. He needs to silence the doubters and start focusing and playing "flawless ball" and get the Irish on a winning streak.

*** Maybe with BVG gone the defense will play better and there will be less on Kizers shoulders.

Go Irish !!
Beat the Orangemen !!

This is pure silliness. You do realize that this is only Kizer's 2nd season. I agree with Nasty that play calling plays a big role in the success of a QB. In regards to Clemson, In the 1st half, Kelly basically shackled him. We we fell behind and Kelly let him loose he was great. Maybe if Kelly allowed Kizer some freedom the entire game, we would have won. Blaming Kizer is just plain silly. Offense is averaging over 35 points per game.

 

[Sarah_Plain_And_Tall]

I guess if you want to shift the blame from Kelly, why not blame the QB?

 

[cgvr]

I guess if you want to shift the blame from Kelly, why not blame the QB?

The timeout to punt in the opening game was as pathetic as it gets...

That was some vote of confidence with the season on the brink.

"Why is it that every ND QB under Porky's reign eventually has that will you please stfu look day in and day out?" The guy is a master at making tough situations worse.

 

[Irishjohn68]

So in 17 games DK has passing 32 TD's with 13 Ints. with a completion % of 63%. His yards per completion is 9.045 yards and in 17 games he has 3980 yards. Last year he passed for 2884 yards and this season he is on pace to have 3288 yards for the season.

Rushing DK has 711 yds on 178 attempts for an average of 4.0 yards with 15 rushing TD's.

I also have seen that right now he is the #1 QB heading (if he chooses) into next years NFL draft.

So what is wrong with DK?

 

[cgvr]

So in 17 games DK has passing 32 TD's with 13 Ints. with a completion % of 63%. His yards per completion is 9.045 yards and in 17 games he has 3980 yards. Last year he passed for 2884 yards and this season he is on pace to have 3288 yards for the season.

Rushing DK has 711 yds on 178 attempts for an average of 4.0 yards with 15 rushing TD's.

I also have seen that right now he is the #1 QB heading (if he chooses) into next years NFL draft.

So what is wrong with DK?

He has a crappy head coach....

PS Factoids:

Montana ended his ND career with 25 TD passes and 25 ints.....His last season 10 and 9....

Kizer's career passing efficiency rating is 154.6 Joe's was 125.6.
In 129 attempts Joe rushed for 104 yards 14 TDs
In 178 attempts Kizer has rushed for 711 yards and 15 TDs..

 

[michbocc]

This post ranks with the most off base posts all year. He is "average". Stats tell a different story. Moreover, poll college coaches and offer DK for their QB. Bet most would do the trade in a second.

 

[Java65]

Kizer is the ONLY reason ND has had any chance at all in every game this year. Without him the games against UT, MSU and Duke are not even close.

 

[Java65]

People keep putting QB development on BK's plate. Development falls on Coach Stanford's plate and game planning and play calling fall on Coach Denbrock's plate. Coach Stanford can make suggestions but the final call rest with Coach Denbrock. We sometimes forget that Kizer still has two years of eligibility left. He's only a sophomore in game experience. He's got a lot of growing ahead of him guys.

I know last year Sanford was responsible for coaching backup QBs and Kelly coached starters. I'm not sure it that is the case this season.

 

[shooter1977]

At a minimum, we'd have the same record with Kizer or Zaire as QB - and that includes 2015. Not saying its time to bench Kizer, just find it interesting that he's probably the most heavily supported QB on this board since Clausen.

 

[michbocc]

And what round will Malik Zaire be drafted in. This whole thread is insane. What don't people get, Malik Zaire may be a decent QB, but he is no where near as good as Kizer.

As for Golson, who someone mentioned above, until Kelly killed his confidence, he was playing great. I still hold that he threw one of the nicest balls you could see.

If anything they should get Winbush meaningful snaps, since Kizer is outta here and won't be starting totally over next year.

 

[mbd11]

Kizer has accounted for 16 TDs in 4 games, with 11 passing and 5 rushing. He also has 1,096 yds passing and a QB rating of 167.6. He's much better than an average college QB.

 

[FLballcoach1]

Football, specifically coaching football is not about "blame" it is about identifying and solving problems. The blame game is played by the media and fans on a message board. A football coach does not have time to blame people.

Replacing players and coaches are part of the problem solving process. The Head Football Coach is Brian Kelly and he is not going to replace himself.

 

[MTIrish98]

Bodi, agree 100%. I also think like you the way the defense play its affecting the mentality of the whole team.

+1 to this idea!

 

[HDK]

Coach Denbrock felt that perhaps DK was putting too much pressure on himself to win games. Apparently, he had a talk with DK about being a piece of puzzle on the team but not the whole puzzle. He doesn't want DK to feel that he is the one that has to win every game. Coach went on to say that there are plenty of other areas of this team that need improvement to help DK out. Heard the Bears are real interested in DK. This according to a "Chicago Bear expert" on sports radio.

I think if Kizer goes pro after this season there is a far better chance that he ends up like Quinn or Clausen than Montana.

 

[cgvr]

Football, specifically coaching football is not about "blame" it is about identifying and solving problems. The blame game is played by the media and fans on a message board. A football coach does not have time to blame people.

Replacing players and coaches are part of the problem solving process. The Head Football Coach is Brian Kelly and he is not going to replace himself.

Then tell porky to shut his pie hole....

 

[HDK]

And what round will Malik Zaire be drafted in. This whole thread is insane. What don't people get, Malik Zaire may be a decent QB, but he is no where near as good as Kizer.

As for Golson, who someone mentioned above, until Kelly killed his confidence, he was playing great. I still hold that he threw one of the nicest balls you could see.

If anything they should get Winbush meaningful snaps, since Kizer is outta here and won't be starting totally over next year.

I think there is something to the idea Kelly breaks his quarterbacks' confidence. It seems Rees and Golson played worse over time. And Kizer seems to be regressing this yeas as well.

 

[Pennick44]

This is pure silliness. You do realize that this is only Kizer's 2nd season. I agree with Nasty that play calling plays a big role in the success of a QB. In regards to Clemson, In the 1st half, Kelly basically shackled him. We we fell behind and Kelly let him loose he was great. Maybe if Kelly allowed Kizer some freedom the entire game, we would have won. Blaming Kizer is just plain silly. Offense is averaging over 35 points per game.

Kelly hasn't called the plays for 2 years. You are consistent in your stupidity.

 

[theskibro]

I think he will be an NFL QB but so far he is just an average college QB. He could be a great college QB but he seems to "fall asleep" during parts of games. He still makes quite a few turnovers and takes quite a few sacks when he should just throw the ball away.
He always brings ND back in games but never finishes and with his skill set he should be piling up the points like last year against Pitt to blow teams out so there would be no need for a comeback.
Last year at Clemson he was terrible in the first half. Against Stanford he had a crucial fumble before half. Many people, including me, said he had the "it" factor but I don't believe it anymore. Joe Montana had the "it" factor because his comebacks brought victories. Brady Quinn and Jimmy C played with consistency as upperclassman.
Maybe Coach Kelly is not teaching him well enough. I don't know.

*** I think Kizer needs to continue to be the starter but his play needs to be more consistent. He needs to silence the doubters and start focusing and playing "flawless ball" and get the Irish on a winning streak.

*** Maybe with BVG gone the defense will play better and there will be less on Kizers shoulders.

Go Irish !!
Beat the Orangemen !!

This is good post. It is why he is the Bodemaster

 

[Maplerock]

Who are you, and what have you done with Bodizephax?

 

[Bumpdaddy]

I think if Kizer goes pro after this season there is a far better chance that he ends up like Quinn or Clausen than Montana.

So Kizer won't end up as one of the greatest NFL quarterbacks of all time? I think that prediction can be made about every college QB and you'll likely be right 99.9% of the time.

Kizer's first year at QB was MUCH better than Quinn's or Clausen's and so far in his 2nd year his stats are much better than Quinn's or Clausen's best years. None of us can know for sure how good Kizer will be as an NFL QB but 4 of his best assets are he reads defenses extremely well, he is extremely calm under pressure, he runs very well, and he has great size. Of course, he has a lot of other great qualities too but I think those 4 traits will translate very well in the NFL (not that I expect him to run as much in the NFL but defenses will have to respect that ability) and I do think he will have a better career than either Quinn or Clausen... not that that is a high bar to hurdle. Whether he opts to go pro after this season or next I think we should all appreciate Kizer while we still have him.

 

[HDK]

So Kizer won't end up as one of the greatest NFL quarterbacks of all time? I think that prediction can be made about every college QB and you'll likely be right 99.9% of the time.

Kizer's first year at QB was MUCH better than Quinn's or Clausen's and so far in his 2nd year his stats are much better than Quinn's or Clausen's best years. None of us can know for sure how good Kizer will be as an NFL QB but 4 of his best assets are he reads defenses extremely well, he is extremely calm under pressure, he runs very well, and he has great size. Of course, he has a lot of other great qualities too but I think those 4 traits will translate very well in the NFL (not that I expect him to run as much in the NFL but defenses will have to respect that ability) and I do think he will have a better career than either Quinn or Clausen... not that that is a high bar to hurdle. Whether he opts to go pro after this season or next I think we should all appreciate Kizer while we still have him.

Let me edit it then: I think if Kizer leaves this year, he stands a much better chance of ending up like Quinn or Clausen than Rick Mirer.

 

[Bumpdaddy]

Let me edit it then: I think if Kizer leaves this year, he stands a much better chance of ending up like Quinn or Clausen than Rick Mirer.

OK, that's a better range. Still, I think Kizer will have a better NFL career than Mirer too. If he does leave after this year we'll just have to wait to see who's right. For what it's worth, I hope he comes back next year but if he is still projected to go in the first round of the 2017 draft I won't blame him if he leaves.

 

[Bodizephax]

So Kizer won't end up as one of the greatest NFL quarterbacks of all time? I think that prediction can be made about every college QB and you'll likely be right 99.9% of the time.

Kizer's first year at QB was MUCH better than Quinn's or Clausen's and so far in his 2nd year his stats are much better than Quinn's or Clausen's best years. None of us can know for sure how good Kizer will be as an NFL QB but 4 of his best assets are he reads defenses extremely well, he is extremely calm under pressure, he runs very well, and he has great size. Of course, he has a lot of other great qualities too but I think those 4 traits will translate very well in the NFL (not that I expect him to run as much in the NFL but defenses will have to respect that ability) and I do think he will have a better career than either Quinn or Clausen... not that that is a high bar to hurdle. Whether he opts to go pro after this season or next I think we should all appreciate Kizer while we still have him.

Kizer's stats were better because every offense is better now than 5 to 10 years ago. The scoring is through the roof. But Brady Quinn and Jimmy C were playing much better than Kizer in his third year with the program than Kizer is doing now. Brady and Jimmy got thrown to the wolves their true freshman years. They would have done better to redshirt and learn the system.
I think Kizer has a great upside but we only see flashes of it during games. Hopefully he plays lights out the rest of the year.

 

[michbocc]

Jimmy Clausen was throwing to Floyd, Tate and Rudolph. Not bad.

 

[Bumpdaddy]

Kizer's stats were better because every offense is better now than 5 to 10 years ago. The scoring is through the roof. But Brady Quinn and Jimmy C were playing much better than Kizer in his third year with the program than Kizer is doing now. Brady and Jimmy got thrown to the wolves their true freshman years. They would have done better to redshirt and learn the system.
I think Kizer has a great upside but we only see flashes of it during games. Hopefully he plays lights out the rest of the year.

I didn't say anything about scoring. QB rating is measured the same way now as it was for Clausen and Quinn and I have seen no data to suggest QB ratings have gone up significantly over that time frame.

Also, keep in mind Kizer has a new offensive line that hasn't been protecting him as well as last year, and they haven't helped him as much with the running game either. He also has a brand new receiving corps and yet he is still having a statistically better year this year than last. I agree, even though he's doing very well right now, I think he has room to do a lot better. I hope he plays lights out the rest of the year too. If not it won't be such a bad thing to see him return next year.

 

[Bodizephax]

I didn't say anything about scoring. QB rating is measured the same way now as it was for Clausen and Quinn and I have seen no data to suggest QB ratings have gone up significantly over that time frame.

Also, keep in mind Kizer has a new offensive line that hasn't been protecting him as well as last year, and they haven't helped him as much with the running game either. He also has a brand new receiving corps and yet he is still having a statistically better year this year than last. I agree, even though he's doing very well right now, I think he has room to do a lot better. I hope he plays lights out the rest of the year too. If not it won't be such a bad thing to see him return next year.

Stats tell only part of the story. Brady Quinn was 4th in the Heisman voting in 2005 and 3rd in the Heisman race in 2006. Kizer has a long way to catch Brady IMO.

 

[Bumpdaddy]

Stats tell only part of the story. Brady Quinn was 4th in the Heisman voting in 2005 and 3rd in the Heisman race in 2006. Kizer has a long way to catch Brady IMO.

That's true but if ND was 3-1 or 4-0 right now Kizer would be in the thick of the Heisman discussion this year. Heisman consideration doesn't necessarily indicate how good a QB really is either. I liked Brady a lot but I thought he would struggle in the pros because of his accuracy. I think Kizer is more accurate (he still has to fix some things to be even more accurate) and I think he has other qualities that will make him a better pro. QB's are always hard to project at the next level so I can't say I'm extremely confident in my prediction but I do think Kizer will be the best pro QB ND has produced in many, many years.

 

[Bodizephax]

That's true but if ND was 3-1 or 4-0 right now Kizer would be in the thick of the Heisman discussion this year. Heisman consideration doesn't necessarily indicate how good a QB really is either. I liked Brady a lot but I thought he would struggle in the pros because of his accuracy. I think Kizer is more accurate (he still has to fix some things to be even more accurate) and I think he has other qualities that will make him a better pro. QB's are always hard to project at the next level so I can't say I'm extremely confident in my prediction but I do think Kizer will be the best pro QB ND has produced in many, many years.

I was talking about college. I don't watch the pros just Notre Dame. I said I think Kizer will be an NFL QB. But Jimmy C and Brady Quinn were much better college players. Kizer has much to prove in college. I hope he does. He has the tools.

 

[mbd11]

I think there is something to the idea Kelly breaks his quarterbacks' confidence. It seems Rees and Golson played worse over time. And Kizer seems to be regressing this yeas as well.

I think Kizer's doing fine. His QB rating is higher this year, than last (and that's without Will Fuller to throw to). Sure, it would've been nice if he'd completed that last 4th down pass Saturday, but no QB is perfect. Overall, this 1-3 start is on the defense.