Committees Reason for Leaving ND Out

[NotreDame du Lac]

Simple. They'll say Georgia beat ND. We want to see new matchups of teams that haven't proven themselves. They'll totally overrate OSU's win over PSU. They'll overrate Clemson. ND's domination of teams and improvement over the season will be ignored. Don't be surprised if the have PSU ahead of ND with the attention Barkley is getting.

A 1 loss GA is more deserving than ND. Therefore, we don't get in unless GA beats Bama or they lose 2 games. Neither is likely.

All I'm saying is even if we win out, these morons on the committee will blow it with politics and bs hype, using past years as their reasoning.

What they should say is this: ND lost to GA by one point in the beginning of the season. ND looked better than GA in that game. Wimbush and ND are much better now than they were in that game. ND would probably take GA out of played again. ND dominated a much more difficult schedule than all of the other teams.

 

[gautrp]

Simple. They'll say Georgia beat ND. We want to see new matchups of teams that haven't proven themselves. They'll totally overrate OSU's win over PSU. They'll overrate Clemson. ND's domination of teams and improvement over the season will be ignored. Don't be surprised if the have PSU ahead of ND with the attention Barkley is getting.

All I'm saying is even if we win out, these morons on the committee will blow it with politics and bs hype, using past years as their reasoning.

What they should say is this: ND lost to GA by one point in the beginning of the season. ND looked better than GA in that game. Wimbush and ND are much better now than they were in that game. ND would probably take GA out of played again. ND dominated a much more difficult schedule than all of the other teams.

All of it means diddly squat.

 

[NotreDomer1]

Let's remain optimistic until given a reason not to be. The entirety of the College Football landscape is pumping ND currently.

 

[shooter1977]

Penn State won’t pass us, because they won’t play in the Big 10 title game (OSU locked that up tonight).

Bama and UGA are ahead of us, maybe OSU, but I can’t think of a 4th team. Win out and we should make it.

 

[Cap'nObvious]

You did not look better than georgia on the field or in the stands.

 

[binhamin]

Bama and UGA are #1 and #2. I doubt that will change even once they play each other.

I could see the committee making Wisconsin or Miami #3, and the other #4. They don't tend to lean toward the 1 loss teams early on. I know OSU has the win over PSU going for them, but Oklahoma's loss to Iowa State is starting to look better and better. They could leapfrog OSU again (they should be in front of OSU anyways).

Assuming everyone wins out, OSU takes the Big 10, Clemson takes the ACC, Iowa State takes the Big 12, and USC or Washington takes the Pac-12, this is how I see the 1 loss teams being ranked:

1) ND - Only loss is to the #2 seeded team.
2) Clemson - The loss of Bryant during the Syracuse game will be factored in.
3) Oklahoma - If Iowa St takes the Big 12, that loss doesn't look so bad.
4) OSU - The loss to Oklahoma should be factoring in more, but it's not.

 

[NotreDomer1]

You did not look better than georgia on the field or in the stands.

What's your original username?

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

You did not look better than georgia on the field or in the stands.

Wrong. We led the entire game. Doesn't matter as a 1 loss GA should get in over a 1 loss ND. Only way I see ND getting in is if Georgia beats Bama by more than they beat us. ND fans are going to have a meltdown Tuesday when they see us at #7 or #8. Playoff committee has never liked ND.

 

[8th Man]

Bama and UGA are #1 and #2. I doubt that will change even once they play each other.

I could see the committee making Wisconsin or Miami #3, and the other #4. They don't tend to lean toward the 1 loss teams early on. I know OSU has the win over PSU going for them, but Oklahoma's loss to Iowa State is starting to look better and better. They could leapfrog OSU again (they should be in front of OSU anyways).

Assuming everyone wins out, OSU takes the Big 10, Clemson takes the ACC, Iowa State takes the Big 12, and USC or Washington takes the Pac-12, this is how I see the 1 loss teams being ranked:

1) ND - Only loss is to the #2 seeded team.
2) Clemson - The loss of Bryant during the Syracuse game will be factored in.
3) Oklahoma - If Iowa St takes the Big 12, that loss doesn't look so bad.
4) OSU - The loss to Oklahoma should be factoring in more, but it's not.

If they win their conferences, one loss teams from Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma and even Washington would be selected before ND. 12-1 > 11-1.

ND has a shot, but they still need help with others collecting a second loss.

 

[HRC08]

Penn State won’t pass us, because they won’t play in the Big 10 title game (OSU locked that up tonight).

Bama and UGA are ahead of us, maybe OSU, but I can’t think of a 4th team. Win out and we should make it.

Clemson? They have wins over 7-1 Virginia Tech and 6-2 Auburn. They also play this N.C. State team and (6-2) South Carolina before any chance at playing in the ACC Championship game. They're also the defending champs, have been a top 5 type program over the last 5 seasons and have recruited on par or better then the other programs in contention. If you feel that the Committee takes everything into account, these things might matter in the event that they need a few "tie breakers" when getting down to deciding the last 1 or 2 teams.

Just playing Devil's Advocate.

 

[HRC08]

Herbstreit has ND as a top 4 team.

 

[chaseball]

THERE'S NO VALID ARGUMENT THAT MAKES ANY SENSE WHATSOEVER THAT KEEPS NOTRE DAME OUT OF THE TOP 4 IN THE PLAYOFF RANKINGS.

THE COMMITTEE FOCUSES ON 1 THING: THE 4 BEST TEAMS IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL.

ANYBODY WITH A F**** PULSE CLEARLY SEES THIS IS A TOP 4 TEAM IN THE NATION.

THERES NO GOOD ARGUMENT/NO VALID ARGUMENT WHATSOEVER THAT CAN BE MADE THAT KEEPS ND OUT OF THE TOP 4 COME RANKING TIME.

IF ND WINS OUT, THERE'S NO ARGUMENT, NO VALID ARGUMENT, THAT KEEPS ND OUT OF THE PLAYOFF GIVEN THEIR STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE AND THEIR COMPLETE AND UTTER DOMINANCE OF IT.

DO YOU THINK ALABAMA IS SITTING AROUND THINKING THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GET RANKED IN THE PLAYOFF? NOO BECAUSE THEY ARE CLEARLY ONE OF THE BEST TEAMS IN THE COUNTRY.

IN 2017, UNLIKE ANY YEAR PRIOR, SINCE MAYBE 1988 OR 1993, ND IS PRODUCING/PERFORMING/AND DOMINATING THE SAME WAY MODERN ALABAMA IS.

THIS IS A TOP 3 TEAM AT WORST ... THIS IS A PLAYOFF TEAM. THIS IS HOW ELITE TOP 2/3/4 TEAMS PERFORM. I KNOW IT HAS BEEN A WHILE SO NOBODY CAN ACCEPT JUST HOW GOOD THIS TEAM IS ... BUT THERE'S NO VALID ARGUMENT WHATSOEVER, ANYWHERE, OF ANY KIND, THAT KEEPS ND OUT OF THE PLAYOFF PLAYING THE WAY THEY HAVE THROUGH THE FIRST 9 WEEKS OF THE SEASON.

 

[1Redrum]

I just looked at Alabama's schedule...lol what a joke this year...yes you do not know years in advance what you have but there is a chance at the end of the year the only ranked team (final end of the regular season) team they will have a victory against is the team they play in the SEC Championship game.

 

[Bumpdaddy]

Playoff committee has never liked ND.

You are going to have a hard time backing that statement up. Please cite a specific time the playoff committee under-ranked us for bogus reasons.

 

[Win5002]

What they should say is this: ND lost to GA by one point in the beginning of the season. ND looked better than GA in that game. Wimbush and ND are much better now than they were in that game. ND would probably take GA out of played again. ND dominated a much more difficult schedule than all of the other teams.[/QUOTE]

You mean they should throw actual on the field results between ND & Georgia out the window, a game that was even played in South Bend. To make some type of a judgement call about who is the best team? Good grief!

Now turn the tables, what if Georgia had lost to ND in Athens how much would you agree with that argument? That was a ridiculous argument you made.

 

[stu4don]

Our USC win is looking better after at 31-3 (10 after that awful call!) beatdown of the team that beat Washington two weeks ago. Damn MSU!

 

[stu4don]

The first half.

 

[Gimmea10wincoach]

Wrong. We led the entire game. Doesn't matter as a 1 loss GA should get in over a 1 loss ND. Only way I see ND getting in is if Georgia beats Bama by more than they beat us. ND fans are going to have a meltdown Tuesday when they see us at #7 or #8. Playoff committee has never liked ND.

Beyond baffling? Your logic is truly delusional! We were a field goal away against Stanford from going. The last 2 yrs we were not even in the discussion.

Btw Herbie just tweeted ND to No3 so there's that..... SEC Now had us at 6 for the SEC to put us 6 is actually fair for them...

 

[binhamin]

If they win their conferences, one loss teams from Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma and even Washington would be selected before ND. 12-1 > 11-1.

ND has a shot, but they still need help with others collecting a second loss.

Except that's not how it works. OSU was 11-1 last year, didn't win the Big 10, and got in last year with much controversy. I don't think that gifting OSU a spot will happen again. And you sure can't make any argument that OSU deserves to be in over Oklahoma. Head to head, the Sooners should be higher.

Clemson? They have wins over 7-1 Virginia Tech and 6-2 Auburn. They also play this N.C. State team and (6-2) South Carolina before any chance at playing in the ACC Championship game. They're also the defending champs, have been a top 5 type program over the last 5 seasons and have recruited on par or better then the other programs in contention. If you feel that the Committee takes everything into account, these things might matter in the event that they need a few "tie breakers" when getting down to deciding the last 1 or 2 teams.

Just playing Devil's Advocate.

So lets take all of that into consideration.

Auburn will at least take another L in the Iron Bowl, so they don't look as good as earlier. We beat NC State. To be 11-1, we would have also beat Miami, who hopefully will be playing for the ACC title. If that's the case, Clemson will have beat them as well. But that Syracuse loss is still far worse than a 1 point loss to the #1 or #2 (Depending on if UGA beats Bama or not) seed in the playoffs. plus if you take all of the extras into account, how was that top 5 program not stacked enough to beat a mediocre Syracuse team?

 

[chaseball]

THE PLAYOFF COMMITTEE AS PER THEIR OWN WEBSITE IS SEEKING THE 4 BEST TEAMS IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL. NOT THE 4 MOST DESERVING TEAMS. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE. A BIG ONE.

THIS IS NOT THE BCS, THIS IS NOT AP POLL, THIS IS COLLEGE FOOTBALL COMMITTEE PLAYOFF RANKINGS.

A CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP IS NOT A REQUIREMENT, IT'S ONLY A MEANS TO PAD STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE. ND ALREADY HAS ONE OF THE TOUGHEST SCHEDULES IN THE COUNTRY AND IT ONLY GETS BETTER OVER THE REMAINING 4 WEEKS OF THE SEASON. THEY DO NOT NEED A CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP, THEIR 12 GAME SCHEDULE STANDS ON ITS OWN AND IS GOING TO END UP BEING BETTER THAN MOST OF THE TEAMS IN MAJOR CONFERENCES INCLUDING THEIR CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.

THE PLAYOFF COMMITTEE USES A NUMBER OF DATA POINTS TO DETERMINE WHO THE BEST TEAMS IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL ARE:

+ THEY HAVE ATHLETIC DIRECTORS & FORMER HEAD COACHES WHO REVIEW HUNDREDS OF HOURS FILM
+ THEY CONTRACT A PRIVATE ANALYTICS COMPANY WHO RUNS THEIR OWN FORMULAS SIMILAR TO THE ONES THAT ARE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE, THAT ALL HAVE ND AS A TOP 2/3/4 TEAM.
+ THEY USE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE SYSTEMS TO GET MORE DATA POINTS ON WHO THE BEST TEAMS ARE
+ THEY USE THEIR COMMON SENSE JUDGEMENT AS TO WHO *LOOKS* LIKE THE BEST MOST DOMINATING TEAM IN THE COUNTRY

ALL OF THIS COMBINED IS HOW THE CFP RANKINGS ARE MADE.

ND HAVING A +230 POINT DIFFERENTIAL VS ONE OF THE TOUGHEST SCHEDULES IN THE COUNTRY IS IRREFUTABLY AND INCONCEIVABLY EVIDENT AS TO WHY THEY ARE ONE OF THE BEST TEAMS IN THE COUNTRY. WHEN YOU ADD THE GAME FILM, WHEN YOU ADD THE MORE COMPREHENSIVE ANALYTICS, IT ALL ADDS UP TO ONE THING: ND IS A RANKED PLAYOFF CONTENDING TEAM, AND CLEARLY ONE OF THE BEST TEAMS IN THE COUNTRY.

IT'S GEORGIA/ALABAMA/NOTRE DAME AND THEN A BIG DROP TO THE NEXT TIER OF RANKED/CONTENDING PLAYOFF TEAMS.

THIS IS NOT GUT ASSESSMENT, THIS IS NOT ND HOMERISM, THIS IS INTUITIVELY OBVIOUS FACT.

 

[8th Man]

Except that's not how it works. OSU was 11-1 last year, didn't win the Big 10, and got in last year with much controversy. I don't think that gifting OSU a spot will happen again. And you sure can't make any argument that OSU deserves to be in over Oklahoma. Head to head, the Sooners should be higher.



So lets take all of that into consideration.

Auburn will at least take another L in the Iron Bowl, so they don't look as good as earlier. We beat NC State. To be 11-1, we would have also beat Miami, who hopefully will be playing for the ACC title. If that's the case, Clemson will have beat them as well. But that Syracuse loss is still far worse than a 1 point loss to the #1 or #2 (Depending on if UGA beats Bama or not) seed in the playoffs. plus if you take all of the extras into account, how was that top 5 program not stacked enough to beat a mediocre Syracuse team?

OSU wasn't "gifted" the spot last year. They had a better record than the 5th team Penn State. And their loss to PSU was considered to be something of a fluke. I agree that the Sooners should be ahead of Ohio State if they both have a 12-1 record come playoff time.

Did you watch the Clemson loss to Syracuse? It was on the road and the Tiger's starting QB was knocked unconscious during the game. So, it was bad, but not incomprehensible.

 

[binhamin]

OSU wasn't "gifted" the spot last year. They had a better record than the 5th team Penn State. And their loss to PSU was considered to be something of a fluke. I agree that the Sooners should be ahead of Ohio State if they both have a 12-1 record come playoff time.

Did you watch the Clemson loss to Syracuse? It was on the road and the Tiger's starting QB was knocked unconscious during the game. So, it was bad, but not incomprehensible.

That was definitely a gift. OSU was 11-1, but I have no respect for a team that hides behind their conference's toughness, but didn't even get to play for their conference championship. Getting to play for an NC when you don't win your conference should never happen in college football.

I did watch the Clemson game. Bryant went down right before the half. So the excuse is Dabo & Co. did nothing to prepare their backup for the possibility of playing, even though Bryant went into the game dinged up? Syracuse was winning at the half, and that's with Bryant playing. So sorry, but I can't take the loss as seriously as if they walked into the game without their starting QB.

 

[88ND]

That was definitely a gift. OSU was 11-1, but I have no respect for a team that hides behind their conference's toughness, but didn't even get to play for their conference championship. Getting to play for an NC when you don't win your conference should never happen in college football.

I did watch the Clemson game. Bryant went down right before the half. So the excuse is Dabo & Co. did nothing to prepare their backup for the possibility of playing, even though Bryant went into the game dinged up? Syracuse was winning at the half, and that's with Bryant playing. So sorry, but I can't take the loss as seriously as if they walked into the game without their starting QB.

You act like the QB was 100% to begin with...secondly and most importantly though you act like Syracuse is some atrocious team. Like its back in 115 scholarship era and Syracuse is about on par with prarieview.

Syracuse is playing tough football.

In case you didn't realize it the difference between the have's and have not is much closer than you think.

 

[THUNDERSTRUCK111]

The op is right. Yesterday espn was showing what the committee was basing their decision off of and conference champion was number one in the decision. They are already plotting angles to keep ND out because we are an independent. JMO

 

[echowaker]

Wrong. We led the entire game. Doesn't matter as a 1 loss GA should get in over a 1 loss ND. Only way I see ND getting in is if Georgia beats Bama by more than they beat us. ND fans are going to have a meltdown Tuesday when they see us at #7 or #8. Playoff committee has never liked ND.

To quote George Costanza " care to make it interesting " ? ND will be no lower than 5 and more likely be 3.

 

[impossibilityofreason1]

Remedy this by going 4 and 0 the rest of the way. In 2012 with a few weeks left in the season i believe we were outside the top 4. Just kept winning and moved up.

 

[theskibro]

Simple. They'll say Georgia beat ND. We want to see new matchups of teams that haven't proven themselves. They'll totally overrate OSU's win over PSU. They'll overrate Clemson. ND's domination of teams and improvement over the season will be ignored. Don't be surprised if the have PSU ahead of ND with the attention Barkley is getting.

A 1 loss GA is more deserving than ND. Therefore, we don't get in unless GA beats Bama or they lose 2 games. Neither is likely.

All I'm saying is even if we win out, these morons on the committee will blow it with politics and bs hype, using past years as their reasoning.

What they should say is this: ND lost to GA by one point in the beginning of the season. ND looked better than GA in that game. Wimbush and ND are much better now than they were in that game. ND would probably take GA out of played again. ND dominated a much more difficult schedule than all of the other teams.

U r so negative. Soooo wring. Best teams

 

[mbd11]

We may be in the top 4 on Tuesday. And that's before playing 4 teams with winning records to finish the season, including 2 ranked teams on the road.

So we're in if we win out. That'll be the tough part, though.

 

[twalsh]

If they win their conferences, one loss teams from Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma and even Washington would be selected before ND. 12-1 > 11-1.

ND has a shot, but they still need help with others collecting a second loss.

There's absolutely zero chance of Washington being picked ahead of us if we win out. The others are possible.

 

[binhamin]

You act like the QB was 100% to begin with...secondly and most importantly though you act like Syracuse is some atrocious team. Like its back in 115 scholarship era and Syracuse is about on par with prarieview.

Syracuse is playing tough football.

In case you didn't realize it the difference between the have's and have not is much closer than you think.

It's almost like you didn't read what I said. So let me slow it down.

The committee is supposed to take into account the unexpected loss of a key player. But everyone knew that Kelly Bryant was dinged up walking into the game. Did Dabo know he would get concussed and leave the game? No. But the odds of him getting injured and going out of the game were higher than normal, so to not have your backup ready to go isn't much of an excuse.

Good football means you're winning. Syracuse is getting credit for being a scrappy team because they're playing close games. But I'm sure if ND was playing close game and still losing, there wouldn't be a single person here discussing moral victories. Actually...that's already happened here.

And the gap between the haves and have nots is a lot wider than you think. A have not may rise up and win a game against a have here and there, but it's not the norm, unless the have is consistently unprepared.

 

[impossibilityofreason1]

We beat UNC with a backup QB at UNC by 23. They are terrible but Miami nearly lost to them. No way Miami is ranked higher.

 

[echowaker]

It's almost like you didn't read what I said. So let me slow it down.

The committee is supposed to take into account the unexpected loss of a key player. But everyone knew that Kelly Bryant was dinged up walking into the game. Did Dabo know he would get concussed and leave the game? No. But the odds of him getting injured and going out of the game were higher than normal, so to not have your backup ready to go isn't much of an excuse.

Good football means you're winning. Syracuse is getting credit for being a scrappy team because they're playing close games. But I'm sure if ND was playing close game and still losing, there wouldn't be a single person here discussing moral victories. Actually...that's already happened here.

And the gap between the haves and have nots is a lot wider than you think. A have not may rise up and win a game against a have here and there, but it's not the norm, unless the have is consistently unprepared.

I don t think a one loss defending champion who wins their conference will get left out.

 

[binhamin]

I don t think a one loss defending champion who wins their conference will get left out.

The defending national champion part doesn't matter. It's not supposed to be considered at all, and if it is, then this current system is no better than the prior and deserves to be scrapped.

 

[chaseball]

The defending national champion part doesn't matter. It's not supposed to be considered at all, and if it is, then this current system is no better than the prior and deserves to be scrapped.

Based on a reddit Q&A Hancock (committee member) was asked this very question. He irrefutably stated that ONLY current season performance is considered. BUT the committee are human, and it's hard to not be brand biased. e.g. Alabama/Saban, Meyer/OSU are going to get the benefit of the doubt when all else is equal based on their modern dominance.

 

[ivan brunetti]

We beat UNC with a backup QB at UNC by 23. They are terrible but Miami nearly lost to them. No way Miami is ranked higher.

UNC is the worst team in the ACC.

 

[impossibilityofreason1]

UNC is the worst team in the ACC.

Doesn't matter. I was responding to the post how teams look without starters. With Wimbush playing we score 50+ against UNC. Poor Clemson didnt have their Qb but still should have the horses to beat Syracuse. We are dominating with backups and Adams only gets 33 percent of carries.

 

[binhamin]

Based on a reddit Q&A Hancock (committee member) was asked this very question. He irrefutably stated that ONLY current season performance is considered. BUT the committee are human, and it's hard to not be brand biased. e.g. Alabama/Saban, Meyer/OSU are going to get the benefit of the doubt when all else is equal based on their modern dominance.

I understand this...and that's why we need a true playoff system. The mental gymnastics that have to be done every year to justify why one team deserves to be in and another doesn't are mind boggling.

This year the logical landmines are brutal. If UGA wins out, but loses the SEC championship, you have to use the argument of "their only loss is to our #1" to make them the #2 team. That means you have to apply the same logic to ND and make them the #3 or #4 if you're looking to avoid an early rematch. That means leaving Clemson or OSU out. If OU wins out and takes the Big 12 with an avenging win over Iowa St in the championship game, how do you leave them out over a Big-10 championship team OSU team that they handled on the field? Or what if TCU does the same as I just described for OU...how do you leave them out when they beat the team OSU couldn't and avenged their only loss?

It's all crap. Let these teams figure it out on the field. The NCAA is edging towards a NFL lengthed schedule anyways. Lets just get to it, bump the playoffs up to 8 or 16 teams, and have at it.

 

[echowaker]

The defending national champion part doesn't matter. It's not supposed to be considered at all, and if it is, then this current system is no better than the prior and deserves to be scrapped.

You're talking about human beings. This system is no better. They're all subjective.

 

[echowaker]

I understand this...and that's why we need a true playoff system. The mental gymnastics that have to be done every year to justify why one team deserves to be in and another doesn't are mind boggling.

This year the logical landmines are brutal. If UGA wins out, but loses the SEC championship, you have to use the argument of "their only loss is to our #1" to make them the #2 team. That means you have to apply the same logic to ND and make them the #3 or #4 if you're looking to avoid an early rematch. That means leaving Clemson or OSU out. If OU wins out and takes the Big 12 with an avenging win over Iowa St in the championship game, how do you leave them out over a Big-10 championship team OSU team that they handled on the field? Or what if TCU does the same as I just described for OU...how do you leave them out when they beat the team OSU couldn't and avenged their only loss?

It's all crap. Let these teams figure it out on the field. The NCAA is edging towards a NFL lengthed schedule anyways. Lets just get to it, bump the playoffs up to 8 or 16 teams, and have at it.

What's a " true" system ? If humans are part of the selection process it's still subjective. Changing the number of teams doesn't t change it. The conference championship games are pretty much quarterfinal games anyway. At least those are merit based and not picked by a committee.

 

[SiberianKnightmare]

The Committee has stated outright they don't way quality of losses nearly as high as quality of wins.

ND has wins over 2 ranked teams, with MSU just dropping out this week.
Clemson has wins over 2 ranked teams.
Ohio State has a win over 1 ranked team.
Penn St has ZERO wins over ranked teams.
Oklahoma has a win over 1 ranked team.
OK St...zero
TCU....1

These numbers will change as the season goes on. Opponents will drop out and others will jump in. That's why the Top 4 will keep changing. ND is in a good position with 2 more opponents that may finish ranked.

NC State will drop out after losing next week to Clemson, but may get back in. MSU has a few chance she to get back in.