Committees Reason for Leaving ND Out

[binhamin]

What's a " true" system ? If humans are part of the selection process it's still subjective. Changing the number of teams doesn't t change it. The conference championship games are pretty much quarterfinal games anyway. At least those are merit based and not picked by a committee.

Then build on that.

The P5 now all have conference championships. Expand the playoffs to 8 teams. The 5 conference champions get in automatically. The next three teams are picked based on overall record. If there’s a tie in record, go to head to head matchup if that happens, or if it didn’t, subtract the average points against from the average points for. Rank in order of highest numbers.

Everything is in the hands of the teams, and everything is skewered towards good teams.

 

[stu4don]

USC's big win last night helps. Wish MSU would have pulled it out. That would have been three ranked teams we beat!

 

[echowaker]

Then build on that.

The P5 now all have conference championships. Expand the playoffs to 8 teams. The 5 conference champions get in automatically. The next three teams are picked based on overall record. If there’s a tie in record, go to head to head matchup if that happens, or if it didn’t, subtract the average points against from the average points for. Rank in order of highest numbers.

Everything is in the hands of the teams, and everything is skewered towards good teams.

No reason to expand. In your scenario you d likely get three championship game losers as the other three. Boring.

 

[mbd11]

The Committee has stated outright they don't way quality of losses nearly as high as quality of wins.

ND has wins over 2 ranked teams, with MSU just dropping out this week.
Clemson has wins over 2 ranked teams.
Ohio State has a win over 1 ranked team.
Penn St has ZERO wins over ranked teams.
Oklahoma has a win over 1 ranked team.
OK St...zero
TCU....1

These numbers will change as the season goes on. Opponents will drop out and others will jump in. That's why the Top 4 will keep changing. ND is in a good position with 2 more opponents that may finish ranked.

NC State will drop out after losing next week to Clemson, but may get back in. MSU has a few chance she to get back in.

Not so fast. NC State has Clemson at home. I think they'll give them a tough game.

 

[binhamin]

No reason to expand. In your scenario you d likely get three championship game losers as the other three. Boring.

And your idea to fix this mess is? I hear a lot of disapproval and no solutions.

 

[echowaker]

And your idea to fix this mess is? I hear a lot of disapproval and no solutions.

I don t think it's a mess. I have no problem with the current set up. I had no problem with the bcs either. It's all subjective. I can live with the results just fine. Semi final games have been awful.expanding won't make the games better. Short of putting everyone in one league ala the NFL there will never be a perfect system as long as human beings determine who participates and I m fine with that.

 

[binhamin]

I don t think it's a mess. I have no problem with the current set up. I had no problem with the bcs either. It's all subjective. I can live with the results just fine. Semi final games have been awful.expanding won't make the games better. Short of putting everyone in one league ala the NFL there will never be a perfect system as long as human beings determine who participates and I m fine with that.

 

[HarlemIrish]

Georgia plays Bama in SEC title?
Wisconsin plays Ohio St in Big Ten title? I would say Irish win out then they are in.

 

[echowaker]

nice, well thought out response.

 

[alpha08]

^ MSU will not sneak back in with games against OSU and PSU remaining. ND is in with only one loss. Nobody in the Pac 12 will be in over you. Nobody from the Big 12 either. I don't think Oklahoma wins out with tough remaining games. You guys are going to get in. Hope you do, because I am so sick of the freaking SEC. Anyone but them. This could be the year that an overrated Bama team gets whooped in the playoff.

 

[REMND]

There is a rumor that the leprechaun has been abusing a lot of trolls lately. The Committee won't like that.

 

[binhamin]

nice, well thought out response.

I felt it was appropriate, since the tenor of your reply is that you're okay with a system being flawed.

There is no logical argument for not having the same playoff system that the FCS has. Too many games? Too stressful on the athletes? Too much time away from their studies? Last year's FCS champion played 15 games...the identical same amount Clemson and Alabama played. FCS teams play 10 games before the playoffs start. That's more than enough. Teams in conferences with 2 divisions of 6 could do their 5 division games, 2 cross conference games, then change their championship structure to where the #1 in each division play for the conference championship, the #2s play each other, etc. Then let all of the teams that don't qualify for the playoffs go off to play in bowl games.

If there was a real playoff, we wouldn't be discussing ND's chances. They win out, and they'd be in easy.

 

[francade]

The bcs sucked. That’s all I got.

 

[echowaker]

Wrong. We led the entire game. Doesn't matter as a 1 loss GA should get in over a 1 loss ND. Only way I see ND getting in is if Georgia beats Bama by more than they beat us. ND fans are going to have a meltdown Tuesday when they see us at #7 or #8. Playoff committee has never liked ND.

Right again !

 

[echowaker]

I felt it was appropriate, since the tenor of your reply is that you're okay with a system being flawed.

There is no logical argument for not having the same playoff system that the FCS has. Too many games? Too stressful on the athletes? Too much time away from their studies? Last year's FCS champion played 15 games...the identical same amount Clemson and Alabama played. FCS teams play 10 games before the playoffs start. That's more than enough. Teams in conferences with 2 divisions of 6 could do their 5 division games, 2 cross conference games, then change their championship structure to where the #1 in each division play for the conference championship, the #2s play each other, etc. Then let all of the teams that don't qualify for the playoffs go off to play in bowl games.

If there was a real playoff, we wouldn't be discussing ND's chances. They win out, and they'd be in easy.

That's your opinion. It's not flawed because you say so. There is no perfect system. I can get into the many,many logistical nightmares a 16 team playoff would present but I doubt you d give them much credence. I agree to disagree.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Man. I was wrong. Terrible prediction. Glad I'm wrong. Keep winning.

 

[binhamin]

That's your opinion. It's not flawed because you say so. There is no perfect system. I can get into the many,many logistical nightmares a 16 team playoff would present but I doubt you d give them much credence. I agree to disagree.

You're correct. There is no perfect system. But there is a better system than the one that stays centric on making sure that the bowls remain viable. Plus, this system isn't acceptable because you say so. That argument works both ways.

You're probably going to list the problems of traveling, securing hotels, tv scheduling, not having time to properly scout opponents, etc. Again, model the FCS, and steal logistics from the NFL where needed.

You want this to be a mountain of an issue, yet there are clear, real world examples where it works. But hey, disagree all you want. It's bound to happen once it's financially viable.

 

[echowaker]

You're correct. There is no perfect system. But there is a better system than the one that stays centric on making sure that the bowls remain viable. Plus, this system isn't acceptable because you say so. That argument works both ways.

You're probably going to list the problems of traveling, securing hotels, tv scheduling, not having time to properly scout opponents, etc. Again, model the FCS, and steal logistics from the NFL where needed.

You want this to be a mountain of an issue, yet there are clear, real world examples where it works. But hey, disagree all you want. It's bound to happen once it's financially viable.

if you don't recognize the many difficult logistical issues than you've obviously never had to deal with them. Using the FCS is silly. it's apples and oranges.

 

[HarlemIrish]

If Oklahoma wins out , I would think they are in? Wisconsin wins out and beats Ohio St in Title game then they are out? Very soon but I can see the Irish getting screwed not being affiliated in a conference.

 

[NDEwing18]

Then build on that.

The P5 now all have conference championships. Expand the playoffs to 8 teams. The 5 conference champions get in automatically. The next three teams are picked based on overall record. If there’s a tie in record, go to head to head matchup if that happens, or if it didn’t, subtract the average points against from the average points for. Rank in order of highest numbers.

Everything is in the hands of the teams, and everything is skewered towards good teams.

Your metrics for picking the three "at-large" teams are, generally, all terrible.

 

[SiberianKnightmare]

ND is in if they win out. We have 2 more games against ranked teams. Conference championship doesn't mean as much as people keep saying it does. OSU was in last year with no conference title.

 

[HarlemIrish]

ND is in if they win out. We have 2 more games against ranked teams. Conference championship doesn't mean as much as people keep saying it does. OSU was in last year with no conference title.

I hope you are correct. Will be interesting to see if Clemson, Ohio St, Oklahoma, Alabama, and The Irish all win out.

 

[ivan brunetti]

if you don't recognize the many difficult logistical issues than you've obviously never had to deal with them. Using the FCS is silly. it's apples and oranges.

I don't know about the FCS comparison being silly. It is true that arranging for a game with 100k fans is more difficult than setting something up for 20k. But I don't think that is why we won't see any expansion of the playoff for quite some time. I think the college presidents and ADs already feel guilty about the players complaining that they should be paid because they are being worked like professionals. With that in mind, I don't think that those in charge are going to expand the playoff to make things MORE professional. The problems that would come with student players being ruled as professionals would not be worth the added profits IMO. So there is no incentive to expand from the point of view of the university presidents.

 

[SiberianKnightmare]

I hope you are correct. Will be interesting to see if Clemson, Ohio St, Oklahoma, Alabama, and The Irish all win out.

Clemson has no more than 2 ranked teams left to beat. Same as ND. Oklahoma has 3 ranked teams to beat. Bama has 3 ranked teams to beat. Ohio State has maybe 2.

Bama is no threat as they are already ranked ahead of us. Clemson and Ohio St don't have enough chances to beat ranked teams to jump us. Oklahoma has 3, but since we are number 3, they can really only jump Clemson..

 

[alpha08]

You guys 100% deserve your ranking. Win out and you are probably in. The only thing I would worry about if I were you is that there are other one loss teams that are really good. So it might not just come down to winning out. You might have to win out and win in convincing fashion. The committee obviously is paying attention to the final scores. I.E. Miami being #10, who has barely beat a handful of teams and that cost them big time. If Ohio State beats down an undefeated Wisconsin team in the B1G title game, then I would worry about that. Anyone but the SEC.

 

[binhamin]

I don't know about the FCS comparison being silly. It is true that arranging for a game with 100k fans is more difficult than setting something up for 20k. But I don't think that is why we won't see any expansion of the playoff for quite some time. I think the college presidents and ADs already feel guilty about the players complaining that they should be paid because they are being worked like professionals. With that in mind, I don't think that those in charge are going to expand the playoff to make things MORE professional. The problems that would come with student players being ruled as professionals would not be worth the added profits IMO. So there is no incentive to expand from the point of view of the university presidents.

Once the dollars make sense, it'll happen.

There was no incentive for the BCS, until the money showed up. Then when the opportunity for more money showed up, we got this 4 team playoff. The schedule for college teams used to be 9 games. More games meant more money, so it happened. Once a method of not cutting out the bowl locations and adding in more game can be figured out, and the networks are willing to offer more money, it will happen.

 

[SiberianKnightmare]

If ND didn't have 2 ranked team yet to play, I'd worry. But with Oklahoma 2 spots back and only 3 chances for quality wins, ND is safe if they win out.

Its a battle of who flinches between Clemson, Oklahoma and Ohio State.

 

[XGoBearcatsX]

Win out and Notre Dame is in. The SOS will preclude even a biased committee form ignoring their resume.

 

[HarlemIrish]

Clemson has no more than 2 ranked teams left to beat. Same as ND. Oklahoma has 3 ranked teams to beat. Bama has 3 ranked teams to beat. Ohio State has maybe 2.

Bama is no threat as they are already ranked ahead of us. Clemson and Ohio St don't have enough chances to beat ranked teams to jump us. Oklahoma has 3, but since we are number 3, they can really only jump Clemson..

What your saying makes sense. You are telling me that the BCS will overlook Power 5 conferences? I’m sorry I don’t agree. No big ten champion if it’s Ohio St? No Oklahoma if it wins out?

 

[tbonesays]

They have elevated the BUG team every year after their Dec CCG. you can earmark them a slot. And if that team is anOSU then a 12-1 OU is in also.