Colin Cowherd: Wisconsin is a better football program than ND

[Johnny Fairplay]

When you look at the numbers, it's hard to argue. And it's not even close.


Let’s take Wisconsin. I’m gonna go back 20 years with four coaches. Barry Alvarez averaged 8.5, Brett Bielma 9.5, Gary Andersen 10, Paul Chryst 10.5. They’re averaging 9.5 wins per year, in a conference where they can’t schedule four or five of their games. Wisconsin is a better football program than Notre Dame.

Wisconsin is also considered a Public Ivy, meaning it’s a really good school. Wisconsin is also geographically somewhat isolated, and Wisconsin is damn cold. Wisconsin right now is a better football program for the last 20 years and the last four coaches for Notre Dame.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

When you look at the numbers, it's hard to argue. And it's not even close.


Let’s take Wisconsin. I’m gonna go back 20 years with four coaches. Barry Alvarez averaged 8.5, Brett Bielma 9.5, Gary Andersen 10, Paul Chryst 10.5. They’re averaging 9.5 wins per year, in a conference where they can’t schedule four or five of their games. Wisconsin is a better football program than Notre Dame.

Wisconsin is also considered a Public Ivy, meaning it’s a really good school. Wisconsin is also geographically somewhat isolated, and Wisconsin is damn cold. Wisconsin right now is a better football program for the last 20 years and the last four coaches for Notre Dame.

Your premise was that they're a better football program and then you went into what a great school Wisconsin is. If you're making the argument that they're a better football program then you have a decent argument. If you're comparing them academically, you're way off base. ND is small, private, and elite in what they do. Wisc isn't as good academically as UM or NWU. I think it'd be hard to argue that they're significantly better in academics than most of the rest of the Big 10 schools.

Not even close academically to ND. And for footballs sake, this is a close one too. ND has had an undefeated season and a national championship appearance. ND has had some great teams that would've beaten Wisconsin. Wisconsin is a good program. I don't think there's any argument against that. I personally believe that the Big 10 is equally as strong as the SEC. UW is like a Georgia program. OSU like Bama. UM like Auburn. PSU like Gators. MSU like LSU. I'd say the conferences are pretty close today. Big 10 is getting stronger. SEC weakened a bit sans Bama.

 

[chaseball]

a lot of programs are better than ND over the last 20 years when it comes to results on the field.

but only a handful of programs have more brand power, wealth, and prestige than ND over that same time (texas, alabama, ohio state, and then it probably ends there).

as long as the money is coming in by the truckload, the product is selling out/breaking TV ratings records, and the brand is still popular with the nations best prep stars, football results can change in a hurry.

as a result, outside of a few institutions, nobody has NDs upside as a football program.

 

[twalsh]

When you look at the numbers, it's hard to argue. And it's not even close.


Let’s take Wisconsin. I’m gonna go back 20 years with four coaches. Barry Alvarez averaged 8.5, Brett Bielma 9.5, Gary Andersen 10, Paul Chryst 10.5. They’re averaging 9.5 wins per year, in a conference where they can’t schedule four or five of their games. Wisconsin is a better football program than Notre Dame.

Wisconsin is also considered a Public Ivy, meaning it’s a really good school. Wisconsin is also geographically somewhat isolated, and Wisconsin is damn cold. Wisconsin right now is a better football program for the last 20 years and the last four coaches for Notre Dame.

Yawn.

 

[AdvanSix]

is this really up for discussion? Sure, ND is a bigger brand than Wisconsin and has national appeal that Wisco does not but if you want to compare on-field results it's no contest.

Simple Question: how many days has it been since Notre Dame won a game (any game) in the month of January?

Answer: about 8,600+ days ago. Think on that. Going on 24 YEARS since ND beat Texas A&M 24-21 in the 1994 Cotton Bowl. Not only are there plenty of high school kids that have never seen ND win a meaningful bowl game but there are people on the verge of 40 years old that haven't either. Amazing.

By contrast, Wisconsin has had TONS of success in bowl games during that period of time, including 7 wins in January bowl games.

Not even a fair fight.

 

[echowaker]

is this really up for discussion? Sure, ND is a bigger brand than Wisconsin and has national appeal that Wisco does not but if you want to compare on-field results it's no contest.

Simple Question: how many days has it been since Notre Dame won a game (any game) in the month of January?

Answer: about 8,600+ days ago. Think on that. Going on 24 YEARS since ND beat Texas A&M 24-21 in the 1994 Cotton Bowl. Not only are there plenty of high school kids that have never seen ND win a meaningful bowl game but there are people on the verge of 40 years old that haven't either. Amazing.

By contrast, Wisconsin has had TONS of success in bowl games during that period of time, including 7 wins in January bowl games.

Not even a fair fight.

They are tied for the same number of national championship in that time frame.

 

[TOMMY_23]

Your premise was that they're a better football program and then you went into what a great school Wisconsin is. If you're making the argument that they're a better football program then you have a decent argument. If you're comparing them academically, you're way off base. ND is small, private, and elite in what they do. Wisc isn't as good academically as UM or NWU. I think it'd be hard to argue that they're significantly better in academics than most of the rest of the Big 10 schools.

Not even close academically to ND. And for footballs sake, this is a close one too. ND has had an undefeated season and a national championship appearance. ND has had some great teams that would've beaten Wisconsin. Wisconsin is a good program. I don't think there's any argument against that. I personally believe that the Big 10 is equally as strong as the SEC. UW is like a Georgia program. OSU like Bama. UM like Auburn. PSU like Gators. MSU like LSU. I'd say the conferences are pretty close today. Big 10 is getting stronger. SEC weakened a bit sans Bama.

But the big 10 gets worked by the southern schools almost every bowl season. The big 10 has had only one bowl season above .500 winning % since 2003 and that was because of OSU's run in 2014.

You're right that the big 10 is getting better but the best sun belt
players, for the most part, will always go to USC, Texas, FSU, Bama, etc.

We rarely see a big 10 team blow out a big time good weather school. But we see big 10 teams constantly getting clowned by PAC, SEC, or ACC schools.

Just look at some recent bowl games in which Stanford wiped Iowa, Tennessee punked Northwestern, Bama embarrassed MSU twice, and Florida over Iowa. Even in a tough battle FSU prevailed over Michigan.

 

[perseverare]

this is an exerp from a post on the USC site. It may be the enemy, but it also reflects how the rest of the college football world, aside from cool-aid drinking ND fans want to believe, think.

"...and ND's history feels pretty irrelevant to me at the moment considering they've only won 4 bowl games and been a unanimous top 10 team at the end of a season once since I've been alive. My two cents...."

Anyone got a guess how old this poster might be?

( and BTW, ND /Wisky ? ONLY 1 has stated it's football mission statement is a National Championsip or bust; but seems there has been effort to alter fan mindset now to think meh is a national championship. Example1 4* commit has Notre Dame fans beating their chests in triumph! What used to be expected commonplace is now cause for celebration.)

 

[NDSMC78]

Still wondering why the OP is allowed to continually flame here.

 

[nemeth#5]

Your first mistake was agreeing with anything Cowherd said.

 

[Pennick44]

Your first mistake was agreeing with anything Cowherd said.

Can't believe anyone would watch that garbage.

 

[Johnny Fairplay]

Still wondering why the OP is allowed to continually flame here.

Because my posts are better and more insightful than yours.

 

[hornick]

is this really up for discussion? Sure, ND is a bigger brand than Wisconsin and has national appeal that Wisco does not but if you want to compare on-field results it's no contest.

Simple Question: how many days has it been since Notre Dame won a game (any game) in the month of January?

Answer: about 8,600+ days ago. Think on that. Going on 24 YEARS since ND beat Texas A&M 24-21 in the 1994 Cotton Bowl. Not only are there plenty of high school kids that have never seen ND win a meaningful bowl game but there are people on the verge of 40 years old that haven't either. Amazing.

By contrast, Wisconsin has had TONS of success in bowl games during that period of time, including 7 wins in January bowl games.

Not even a fair fight.

Not to mention the 9 consecutive bowl losses, so sad, go Irish.

 

[NDSMC78]

Because my posts are better and more insightful than yours.

You are a jackass, nothing more and nothing less. The fact that you think you are funny with speaks only to how immature you are.

 

[francade]

Cowherd is a jackass of epic proportion but I can't disagree w/ Wisconsin being a better program in the last two decades. They've been damn close so many times and have rarely put up a klunker of a season. Did I say cowherd was a jackass?

 

[ftnfan62]

ND was never 1 play from losing to Georgia State.

 

[ftnfan62]

I like the badgers. Lots of respect. Don't play the same level of schedule year in and year out. Apples to Oranges.

Can't wait to play them. Should be a great time. Two quality schools.

 

[francade]

That's true that nd was never one play from losing to ga state but I don't think that one thing makes up for all of wisco's consistency vs ND's mediocrity sprinkled w/ a good season every 5 or 6 yrs. Just my opinion.

 

[Johnny Fairplay]

ND was never 1 play from losing to Georgia State.

ND lost to Duke

 

[francade]

Did I miss something? Comparing duke w/ ga state?

 

[ftnfan62]

That's true that nd was never one play from losing to ga state but I don't think that one thing makes up for all of wisco's consistency vs ND's mediocrity sprinkled w/ a good season every 5 or 6 yrs. Just my opinion.

I don't remember WI playing a NT game nor do I remember them being one face mask penalty away from their second appearance in a NT playoff in those 6 years.

Duke also beat #17 Carolina the same year....They were no GSU sub division school....

My point is they play on a diff stage, teams bring a different fire and with the schedule we do reload. Last year was unacceptable. I would not disagree...Its just the narrative that's pushed. Did he say it about PSU? Michigan? Oregon? Like Mark may, for ratings you talk bad about ND...

 

[Toby Smart]

These media types throw stuff out there with little to no research and no one to call them out on it. That's how it works. There's no context. They make a statement and that's that.

 

[Johnny Fairplay]

You are a jackass, nothing more and nothing less. The fact that you think you are funny with speaks only to how immature you are.

You are the immature one. You are the one calling people names while we are trying to have a discussion.

 

[mbd11]

Wisconsin has had a good run the last 20+ years. Alvarez built the program from scratch and installed a system that has worked well for them. So yes, they've been more successful on the field than we have during that time period.

Despite all that, we actually have more players in the NFL than they do. As of this article (from last September), we had 39 players in the NFL and they had 33.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2016-09-07/college-football-schools-most-players-nfl

 

[NDSMC78]

You are the immature one. You are the one calling people names while we are trying to have a discussion.

Go away, moron.

 

[echowaker]

These media types throw stuff out there with little to no research and no one to call them out on it. That's how it works. There's no context. They make a statement and that's that.

Controversial subjects are good for ratings.

 

[francade]

Looking back at Wisconsin records, they do have a couple more klunkers than I thought but had ten 10 or more win seasons. Splitting hairs I guess, but all in all, they've been a more successful program. They've won some big games and big bowls beating all types of teams, including teams from the south.

 

[Johnny Fairplay]

Looking back at Wisconsin records, they do have a couple more klunkers than I thought but had ten 10 or more win seasons. Splitting hairs I guess, but all in all, they've been a more successful program. They've won some big games and big bowls beating all types of teams, including teams from the south.

I can't remember the last time ND won a big game. Beating LSU was nice but that was the Music City Bowl.

 

[echowaker]

I can't remember the last time ND won a big game. Beating LSU was nice but that was the Music City Bowl.

The opponent in a bowl game is much more important to me than the date and location of the game.

 

[echowaker]

I can't remember the last time ND won a big game. Beating LSU was nice but that was the Music City Bowl.

Big win in Oklahoma a few years ago.

 

[Islero]

Big win in Oklahoma a few years ago.

Unfortunately, that isolated bright moment is it, unless you want to count the MSU when they were unranked but later surged and won the Rose Bowl.

 

[twalsh]

Because my posts are better and more insightful than yours.

I seldom think of you and insightful in the same thought.

 

[57Patrick]

JoanieFairplay is obsessed with ND. We need people like that. Not everyone is going to be an ND fan. But those that aren't and are obsessed none the less, keep ND conversations front and center. Thanks Mr./Ms. Fairplay.

 

[hayaka]

Unfortunately, that isolated bright moment is it, unless you want to count the MSU when they were unranked but later surged and won the Rose Bowl.

Actually, Notre Dame did that two years in a row, since you beat Stanford in 2012 (the "goal line stand game") in a year we went on to win the Rose Bowl.

Edit: Well, maybe you beat us. Taylor was probably in for a TD, not on 4th down but on 3rd down, which unfortunately was not reviewed.

Come to think of it, he was probably in on 4th down as well. At least Mike Pereira thought so.

"We have looked at ND/STA last play from every angle & feel that it is a TD. Progress was not ruled & runner was not down. Ball broke plane."

— Mike Pereira (@MikePereira) October 13, 2012


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...complete-look-at-the-controversial-final-play

 

[francade]

What a bunch of BS. Players started running away from the pile when the whistle was blown and his progress had stopped. If you want credit for the last push after the whistle was blown and after ND players had stopped playing, I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[hayaka]

What a bunch of BS. Players started running away from the pile when the whistle was blown and his progress had stopped. If you want credit for the last push after the whistle was blown and after ND players had stopped playing, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Pereira said "progress had not been ruled", which presumably means the whistle had not yet blown.

Anyway, it's all good, especially after the 2015 game.

 

[tbonesays]

The controversy is the lunge after he hit the ground. Regardless of what you think you can see, the home team gets those calls in the 4th qtr. I can't remember a close game in Ann Arbor where bUM didn't go +7 from the 13th man.

What programs like Wiscy, Boise, and Oregon have achieved is laudatory. It's also largely irrelevant to our situation. We don't compete with them for many recruits and I haven't heard of a reason why we should try to copy them.

 

[hayaka]

The controversy is the lunge after he hit the ground. Regardless of what you think you can see, the home team gets those calls in the 4th qtr. I can't remember a close game in Ann Arbor where bUM didn't go +7 from the 13th man.

What programs like Wiscy, Boise, and Oregon have achieved is laudatory. It's also largely irrelevant to our situation. We don't compete with them for many recruits and I haven't heard of a reason why we should try to copy them.

"Regardless of what you think you can see, the home team gets those calls in the 4th qtr."

Oh, I know they do. Refs are only human. And it evens out, eventually.

 

[francade]

Could care less what a referee analyst says (talk about overdoing the telecast), ND was handed nothing. He was stopped and it was obvious that ND had stopped playing because of a blown whistle or a player had seen an obvious stop (probabaly both). As for 2015, it was a great game & would've been nice had the Stanford kicker gagged. ND could've played for their 12th national title. Just think, Stanford would have to win 9 more titles to be in position to do that.

 

[hayaka]

Could care less what a referee analyst says (talk about overdoing the telecast), ND was handed nothing. He was stopped and it was obvious that ND had stopped playing because of a blown whistle or a player had seen an obvious stop (probabaly both). As for 2015, it was a great game & would've been nice had the Stanford kicker gagged. ND could've played for their 12th national title. Just think, Stanford would have to win 9 more titles to be in position to do that.

Yeah, wasn't trying to compare along those lines. Notre Dame has a great history.