It's been going this way for a while, with Saban running an NFL style mini camps, Harbaugh expelling recruits for better recruits and sleep overs. Notre Dame should not go down this road but can them compete?
Can Notre Dame Football Compete?
- Thread starter scubastevefl
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Harbaugh went out and hired the best DC available and I'm sure Saban knows who to replace Smart. That's the difference. If you think UM has more talent you're mistaken. I'm sure UM will improve under harbaugh, but at this point, compete?
Yes I believe they can. I remember reading an article when I subscribed to BGI that ND should compete for the NC every 5 years, I could live with that. ND will not be in the conversation every year like Bama, O$U, F$U, etc we all know that but I do believe ND can compete.
2 things that have to improve to be able to compete ( I know there are more) :
1. Red zone offense, goes without saying
2. Defense creating turnovers. I don't know where ND finished in this category but it was near the bottom. Cause a turnover or 2 in a game and with the firepower that the offense has a 7 point squeaker victory becomes a 21 point blow out.
2 things that have to improve to be able to compete ( I know there are more) :
1. Red zone offense, goes without saying
2. Defense creating turnovers. I don't know where ND finished in this category but it was near the bottom. Cause a turnover or 2 in a game and with the firepower that the offense has a 7 point squeaker victory becomes a 21 point blow out.
We lost to #2 and #4 by 2 Pts on their home fields. That's competing at the highest level by any definition.
We can compete but it doesn't mean we are going to win a NC. Also another note on Harbaugh, he got the number 1 recruit this year and he just happened to have hired his high school coach lol... talk about a joke! I think he is a very good coach but he is questionable with regards to anything else.
Anyway without top 10 recruiting classes it is proven the odds of winning a title are very slim these days. I wrote about this before but everyone ignored the facts on here or just didnt want to except it. Still all teams need some luck and we saw this in 2012 until we met up with Bama but hey we had a chance! The other major key is definitely having a big time QB running the team and Kelly hasn't had 1 in 6 seasons, I don't know why people who dislike him don't admit this? He finally has 2 possible stars in Malik and Kizer but we still have to wait and see, though I think we can all agree they both look promising. Defense will continue to be the question mark and hopefully it can improve. Of course an injury free season will be very nice wouldn't it!
By the way I was looking at the final recruit numbers this year and here are a couple stats that speak to competing with teams like Ohio and Bama. Notre Dame finished a decent recruiting year with 3 players ranked in the Rivals top 100 while Bama finished with 5 of the top 33 and Ohio had 9 of the top 100.
I don't agree with the first part.
Why can't they compete year in year out? Sure the requirements certainly don't leave you with a complete open market but there is still a ton of excellent talent to be had.
I'm sick of the excuses. I want results. If it's with Kelly..great. If with someone else then so be it. But this constant apology because we can only take certain kids is getting old.
Do everything you can possibly do..then we won't need to excuse mediocre seasons. I.e.
Injuries..shopping from a different aisle...Blah blah blah..
How about this one...god forbid we actually over achieve!!!!!!!
What is the definition of "competing" ? Being in the National Title discussion Thanksgiving weekend? Then they competed.
If it means consistently making the Final Four then the answer is No. The facilities are good enough, the coaching is good enough, the players on offense are good enough. But the players on defense are not even close to being good enough. With Smith and Day leaving. ND does not have one difference maker on defense. That will translate in to 2-4 losses per year for any coach. Including Saban, Meyer & Harbaugh.
If it means consistently making the Final Four then the answer is No. The facilities are good enough, the coaching is good enough, the players on offense are good enough. But the players on defense are not even close to being good enough. With Smith and Day leaving. ND does not have one difference maker on defense. That will translate in to 2-4 losses per year for any coach. Including Saban, Meyer & Harbaugh.
That's why winning only two the last 5 games with Michigan was painful? The talent difference will soon favor Michigan. With Harbaugh at the helm we would be smart to avoid a regular series?
NOTRE Dame can 'ALWAYS' compete.......however, seldom win a NC or final four for
the simple reason that the SEC & other programs get the choice recruits; Football, be it
Pop Warner all the way through the Pros is based on the winners having the BEST players.
I know this is elementary.......but the Irish structure with respect to academics is a lethal
constraint to getting those players the majority of time. Ergo, once in awhile when the
combined 4-yrs of recruiting classes have STAR Class members .,....ND might have a chance.
The NORM however.....will always favor all the teams that have little or NO constraints....
and some of those even CHEAT!!! Each year has been and most likely will continue to be
a 'MAYBE'...................Only changes to existing policy will change ND's football fortunes.
But dat ain't likely to happen, he said..... lol.
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You conveniently leave the plethora of injuries out of your comment -- anyone that thinks this yrs team did not compete at the highest level this season does not know the meaning of or have any appreciation of competition
Kelly has had no luck. 2012 that title game, we were doomed from the time Bama beat Georgia. That was a Tide team that fought back after a bad A&M game to get in the hunt and they were more ready than ever. That may've been Saban's best team. Had Ohio State sanctioned itself in 2011, I'm pretty sure in 2012 Notre Dame wins the National Title.
2014, shit luck with injuries. A bad call against FSU, in what should have been a win.
This season, a terrible game against Clemson, that we still nearly rallied back to win and just pure idiocy against Stanford.
That said, its on Kelly, he needs to be a better gameday coach. His teams are resilient but at some point he needs to evolve as a coach. I'm afraid he peaked.
2014, shit luck with injuries. A bad call against FSU, in what should have been a win.
This season, a terrible game against Clemson, that we still nearly rallied back to win and just pure idiocy against Stanford.
That said, its on Kelly, he needs to be a better gameday coach. His teams are resilient but at some point he needs to evolve as a coach. I'm afraid he peaked.
You are right about the no luck....but wrong on Bama beating Georgia.
Kansas state didn't keep up their end of the bargain and lost the next to last weekend to Baylor. Had they won it would have been a ND/KSU matchup.
Kansas State and Oregon both had late season losses in 2012 that let the SEC champ sneak ahead of them. Not sure about Oregon, but I am confident we would have beaten KSU.
No, that's called losing. Kelly loses all the big games. I know you don't know the definition of a big football game. Last night there was a big basketball game. The best coach on campus won it.
Getting close is great if being satisfied with just getting close.
At some point you have to finish it off. At which point are you willing to say it's deadline time with Kelly.
If you want a championship and Kelly keeps getting just close that decision HAS to be made.
ND alums need to step up with their checkbooks open the way they do in the $EC, UOJ, Ohst and now Mich. Instead of driving a truck to a recruit's house they need a truck full of money to get recruits to win NC's.
If ND ever went to this tactic, I would vote to drop football first.
Then start cheering for the Ivy league because that is now the Power 5 way of recruiting. Ask Cam Newton and Rapist Jameis.
Right, your way only decides whether I can root for ND. I have been a fan since 1965 and I am an alumnus so I will decide when to change or what variables will dictate any change in allegiance.
We are competing we just have not gotten over the hump.
Look at how close Clemson got to winning it all.
We are in the conversation right to the end of the season the last 3 of 5 years.
As regards recruiting yes we need to do better on the D side of the ball but other then that we are doing good enough to get the job done
Look at how close Clemson got to winning it all.
We are in the conversation right to the end of the season the last 3 of 5 years.
As regards recruiting yes we need to do better on the D side of the ball but other then that we are doing good enough to get the job done
Yeah, everyone who does well in recruiting must be cheating. Except us, of course. Tired old argument. And chiding alums about giving more money is one of the funniest things you've ever said. You can count on one hand the schools in the country whose alums donate more money to the school than ND alums.
Confusing for an outsider. Isn't ND winning 9+ games a year and getting into major bowl games? Didn't ND play for the natty not too long age. Isn't that competing?
I don't know as much about the team as most here, burt I assure you that SC sure thinks ND is competitive and formidable.
We are competitive , but it has been said over and over that we need a few more impact players on defense . Realize the speed we lost with Jaylon Smith and Sheldon Day . Where is the real speed on defense ? Seems like we cover the same topic every year . defense.
To win NC it takes great coaching AND great athletes. UOJ plays the same game as the $EC, Ohst etc. to get the top players but has lacked a great coach since the Poodle left. ND on the other hand has what most of us feel is a great coach but does not play the game to get the best athletes.
To win NC's you need both.
What game is that? Seems like SC and ND other several of the same athletes and that players have transferred fro SC to ND. What's this game?
There was an article linked here a few months ago about the top 50 schools listed by number of arrests etc. USC was not on the list. They are a worthy opponent and are to be congratulated for the way they have been playing the game these last few years.
Beach, btw, I don't agree with you and think losing PH is a big hit for your program.
Beach, btw, I don't agree with you and think losing PH is a big hit for your program.
We had to replace Te'o and Tuitt a couple years ago, which seemed very daunting at the time. Part of having a strong program is that new guys step up and do the job, maybe even guys whose names are not that familiar. We haven't had remotely this much roster depth since the middle of the Holtz era, you just need to have faith that the new kids will perform.
Fair opinion, I just disagree. But he isn't leaving. He is taking over the development of the Colli.
Good question. After reading this whole tread, I Think that compete
Means different things to all of us ?
My first thought was no we can not compete consistently against
The top ten type teams.
But we certainly compete Against every team we play : va, Temple, Navy, BC, etc.
There in lies the problem : we compete against teams we should be crushing, and compete at times with top teams, and never really defeat a top team in a big game.
So yeas, we can compete but so can most teams compete against us.
Ask Mr. Bush, Mr. McKnight and Mr. Tyler or some of the agents that drive UOJ players to and from practice.
