Can Jagusah work his way into the lineup?

[nd4life211]

I know it’s not ideal with the amount of time he’s missed and recovering from an injury, but they were talking about him like he was a future first round pick prior to the start of the season.

Knapp has been solid and has improved a lot, but I was watching these two Georgia guys on YouTube break down our game vs IU and they mentioned Knapps struggles in pass pro. I wasn’t thrilled with the offensive line versus IU. Leonard is so good back there that we haven’t really paid the price for the offensive lines play.

I get the offensive line is a well oiled machine that needs communication and comfortability with one another. I just think about Georgia’s front seven and how big, fast and physical they are. With Spindler out, I wonder if the offensive line has more potential with Jagusah at tackle and maybe moving Knapp inside?

I played defensive back so for any of the o line guys, is the talk about the offensive lines ability to play as a unit overstated? Or is it that important?

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

You gotta go with what got you here. Too many unknowns with Jagsuh. Pendleton has game experience and minimizes adjustments. Would rather change 1 starter with a guy who has experience than change 2 starters with a guy who has never played guard and another who hasn't played all year.

 

[NDgreatestofalltime!]

What happens with Knapp and Jagsuh next season? If Knapp moves, is it to RT?

 

[echowaker]

What happens with Knapp and Jagsuh next season? If Knapp moves, is it to RT?

No chance. Wagner has been outstanding in my opinion in his first season. Injuries are always unfortunate. That said Jagusah will have to earn his spot wherever that is. The o line room is an embarrassment of riches. Nothing would surprise me next year. Gotta believe you can pencil in Schrauth and Wagner for sure but after that the competition should be hot and heavy. The health of Craig will certainly factor in. My ideal unit would be left to right Lambert, Schrauth, Craig/ Knapp, Jagusah/ Jones, Wagner. Would not surprise me one bit to see one or two guys enter the portal in the spring.

 

[echowaker]

I know it’s not ideal with the amount of time he’s missed and recovering from an injury, but they were talking about him like he was a future first round pick prior to the start of the season.

Knapp has been solid and has improved a lot, but I was watching these two Georgia guys on YouTube break down our game vs IU and they mentioned Knapps struggles in pass pro. I wasn’t thrilled with the offensive line versus IU. Leonard is so good back there that we haven’t really paid the price for the offensive lines play.

I get the offensive line is a well oiled machine that needs communication and comfortability with one another. I just think about Georgia’s front seven and how big, fast and physical they are. With Spindler out, I wonder if the offensive line has more potential with Jagusah at tackle and maybe moving Knapp inside?

I played defensive back so for any of the o line guys, is the talk about the offensive lines ability to play as a unit overstated? Or is it that important?

No, no, no. At this point in time making changes to 40% of the unit is a recipe for disaster. Communication is key. These guys have been practicing and playing together for quite some time now. No offense to Jagusah but he has had limited playing time in his career to date and the results were mixed at best. Knapp has been very good in the run game and okay in pass protection but getting better with more experience. With young players run blocking almost always matures first. I don't think it would be fair to Jagusah to just throw him in there in a game of this magnitude with such limited experience and practice time. Now if called upon because of injury of course but to just shake things up is bad business in my opinion.

 

[ftnfan62]

If he plays, we are in trouble. Someone went down.

 

[Telx1]

I know it’s not ideal with the amount of time he’s missed and recovering from an injury, but they were talking about him like he was a future first round pick prior to the start of the season.

Knapp has been solid and has improved a lot, but I was watching these two Georgia guys on YouTube break down our game vs IU and they mentioned Knapps struggles in pass pro. I wasn’t thrilled with the offensive line versus IU. Leonard is so good back there that we haven’t really paid the price for the offensive lines play.

I get the offensive line is a well oiled machine that needs communication and comfortability with one another. I just think about Georgia’s front seven and how big, fast and physical they are. With Spindler out, I wonder if the offensive line has more potential with Jagusah at tackle and maybe moving Knapp inside?

I played defensive back so for any of the o line guys, is the talk about the offensive lines ability to play as a unit overstated? Or is it that important?

Not an offensive line guy; but no, this importance isn’t overstated. In Basketball, it’s easy to see teams that defend best by how they communicate and know to switch or don’t switch to manage around or under screens and the pick and roll, etc…. In football, this level of communication and coordination among offensive linemen happens on every play, but is most obvious on pass protection. Our OL was anything but a well oiled machine when we played Texas A&M, and it’s a testament to Leonard’s mobility that their DL didn’t dominate that game.

Knapp is not your prototypical OT, and certainly not by ND standards. He was our third string true freshman LT going into Fall. Rudolph recruited him as a tackle and sang his praises even while rating agencies proclaimed Knapp to be an interior guy at the college level. Jagusah goes down, Baker’s limitations are on full display at practice, and Rudolph rolled the dice with Knapp. During the first half of the season, there were numerous plays where Knapp either failed to handle his man in pass protection, or literally failed to pick up stunts, etc… and Leonard was forced to scramble. By seasons end, Knapp still struggles against inside rush moves, but is much more assignment correct in coordination with Schrauth in picking up blitzes and stunts, etc…. I think Knapp is an interior guy, not a tackle, but that’s for next year to sort out, not the playoffs. So no, you don’t mess with this position at this time of year.

If Rocco is a no go at RG, you strictly focus on who to insert without disrupting the other four OL. I said previously that Pendleton is talented and aggressive, but not at all position correct and plays without much thought or discipline. Time and experience might resolve this, but doubt we can expect much improvement over his play which lost him his starting position early in the season. Jagusah is most likely a guard going forward, and that’s where he has been practicing, and I sure as hell would be giving him a long look over Pendleton if I were Rudolph, if Pendleton was our only alternative. But we have others to consider, and I think someone like Absher gets really strong consideration. A huge decision for Rudolph. One thing for sure, there will be miscommUnication and missed assignments on the right side if Coogan and Wagner have an unfamiliar guard playing alongside. Need to minimize the impact by moving the pocket, etc…

 

[Telx1]

No chance. Wagner has been outstanding in my opinion in his first season. Injuries are always unfortunate. That said Jagusah will have to earn his spot wherever that is. The o line room is an embarrassment of riches. Nothing would surprise me next year. Gotta believe you can pencil in Schrauth and Wagner for sure but after that the competition should be hot and heavy. The health of Craig will certainly factor in. My ideal unit would be left to right Lambert, Schrauth, Craig/ Knapp, Jagusah/ Jones, Wagner. Would not surprise me one bit to see one or two guys enter the portal in the spring.

Agree with everything here. Presumably Black is in the two deep at tackle as a true freshman. Hope Rudolph makes early decisions on our projected starting OL and our portal transfers occur after these become apparent during Spring practice.

 

[echowaker]

Agree with everything here. Presumably Black is in the two deep at tackle as a true freshman. Hope Rudolph makes early decisions on our projected starting OL and our portal transfers occur after these become apparent during Spring practice.

It's a great " problem" to have. For arguments sake let's say Knapp and Jagusah move inside. Heaven forbid you get a season ending injury to one of the starters at tackle. How many teams would have the luxury of having two guys you feel very comfortable with moving outside if need be ? Regardless of who ends up starting in 2025 it's going to be a very good to elite level o line.

 

[Telx1]

It's a great " problem" to have. For arguments sake let's say Knapp and Jagusah move inside. Heaven forbid you get a season ending injury to one of the starters at tackle. How many teams would have the luxury of having two guys you feel very comfortable with moving outside if need be ? Regardless of who ends up starting in 2025 it's going to be a very good to elite level o line.

Very very rare to see an interior guy moved to play tackle, as the demands for length and good feet and quickness at tackle are typically beyond what guards or centers can provide. And as you say, we will likely have two! So much for the criticism of Rudolph for recruiting too many tackles and not enough inside guys!

 

[THUNDERSTRUCK111]

No chance. Wagner has been outstanding in my opinion in his first season. Injuries are always unfortunate. That said Jagusah will have to earn his spot wherever that is. The o line room is an embarrassment of riches. Nothing would surprise me next year. Gotta believe you can pencil in Schrauth and Wagner for sure but after that the competition should be hot and heavy. The health of Craig will certainly factor in. My ideal unit would be left to right Lambert, Schrauth, Craig/ Knapp, Jagusah/ Jones, Wagner. Would not surprise me one bit to see one or two guys enter the portal in the spring.

All good point echo.

I was not a lineman but how difficult is it to move someone from o line to d line ?

We have some really athletic o lineman that play with a nasty streak. To maximize the “team “ potential , Kelly did it with Jerry Tillery why can’t we do it with some of the abundance of o lineman we have. Are we really better off if some guys transfer out. ?

The way it looks is we have too many o lineman and not enough D lineman there’s going to be some guys that are highly rated recruits who are going to go somewhere else to play.
Thoughts ?

 

[Terry Jillery]

Not a good idea to rotate OL. If Knapp get hurt he can play.

 

[Telx1]

All good point echo.

I was not a lineman but how difficult is it to move someone from o line to d line ?

We have some really athletic o lineman that play with a nasty streak. To maximize the “team “ potential , Kelly did it with Jerry Tillery why can’t we do it with some of the abundance of o lineman we have. Are we really better off if some guys transfer out. ?

The way it looks is we have too many o lineman and not enough D lineman there’s going to be some guys that are highly rated recruits who are going to go somewhere else to play.
Thoughts ?

Seems to me that selective repositioning should still be a viable option for filling positions of need. ND has had some spectacular success with this, and you don’t have to go further back than today’s AA Watts. I’ll be interested to read Echo’s reply here as he is a hell of a lot more qualified than I am. That said, I’ve always believed moving from the DL to the OL was damn near impossible. I still embrace the OLD notion that OL linemen are more disciplined and thoughtful, etc… and DL more aggressive and risk oriented, etc…. So, looking at our OL, two stand out to me as having the kind of size and PERSONALITY traits that could make this kind of position change: Pendleton and Terek. Both are north of 300 lbs, both are sophomores, both look to be bull like strong, both are very aggressive and road grader maulers in high school, etc…. Have no idea if either played any defense in high school, and it takes a hell of a lot more than size and personality traits to play interior DL at ND, but like to think our coaches are constantly thinking about options.

 

[sjb75]

All good point echo.

I was not a lineman but how difficult is it to move someone from o line to d line ?

We have some really athletic o lineman that play with a nasty streak. To maximize the “team “ potential , Kelly did it with Jerry Tillery why can’t we do it with some of the abundance of o lineman we have. Are we really better off if some guys transfer out. ?

The way it looks is we have too many o lineman and not enough D lineman there’s going to be some guys that are highly rated recruits who are going to go somewhere else to play.
Thoughts ?

Simply doesn’t happen.

 

[nd4life211]

Seems to me that selective repositioning should still be a viable option for filling positions of need. ND has had some spectacular success with this, and you don’t have to go further back than today’s AA Watts. I’ll be interested to read Echo’s reply here as he is a hell of a lot more qualified than I am. That said, I’ve always believed moving from the DL to the OL was damn near impossible. I still embrace the OLD notion that OL linemen are more disciplined and thoughtful, etc… and DL more aggressive and risk oriented, etc…. So, looking at our OL, two stand out to me as having the kind of size and PERSONALITY traits that could make this kind of position change: Pendleton and Terek. Both are north of 300 lbs, both are sophomores, both look to be bull like strong, both are very aggressive and road grader maulers in high school, etc…. Have no idea if either played any defense in high school, and it takes a hell of a lot more than size and personality traits to play interior DL at ND, but like to think our coaches are constantly thinking about options.

I’m surprised how rarely we see o linemen switch to the d line. The one time we did it, it worked out great for both parties (Tillery).

ND has usually lacked serious size in the middle (300+ pound tackles). Mills is a legit 6’5, 300 lbs and is in shape. We pretty much always have a few guards who are in the 6’3-6’5 range and 300+. ND can usually go three deep across the offensive line and there is usually an athletic guard that won’t play. Seems like a no brainer but we almost never see that switch.

 

[sjb75]

I’m surprised how rarely we see o linemen switch to the d line. The one time we did it, it worked out great for both parties (Tillery).

ND has usually lacked serious size in the middle (300+ pound tackles). Mills is a legit 6’5, 300 lbs and is in shape. We pretty much always have a few guards who are in the 6’3-6’5 range and 300+. ND can usually go three deep across the offensive line and there is usually an athletic guard that won’t play. Seems like a no brainer but we almost never see that switch.

This is chaseball.

 

[echowaker]

All good point echo.

I was not a lineman but how difficult is it to move someone from o line to d line ?

We have some really athletic o lineman that play with a nasty streak. To maximize the “team “ potential , Kelly did it with Jerry Tillery why can’t we do it with some of the abundance of o lineman we have. Are we really better off if some guys transfer out. ?

The way it looks is we have too many o lineman and not enough D lineman there’s going to be some guys that are highly rated recruits who are going to go somewhere else to play.
Thoughts ?

It really is apples and oranges. Moving from d line to o line happens far more frequently. I had a teammate at MSU who made the switch from d tackle to guard. Two totally different skill sets. From a physical standpoint sure but it's so much more than that especially with a guy who has been an offensive lineman since he started playing football. A quality d lineman has excellent short space quickness and agility. Hand techniques are vastly different also. Not saying it can't be done but it's highly unlikely they would even try unless that o lineman had shown a lot of d lineman skill and potential in high school.

 

[echowaker]

Simply doesn’t happen.

Not true at all. It is certainly rare but it does occur.

 

[THUNDERSTRUCK111]

Simply doesn’t

It really is apples and oranges. Moving from d line to o line happens far more more frequently. I had a teammate at MSU who made the switch from d tackle to guard. Two totally different skill sets. From a physical standpoint sure but it's so much more than that especially with a guy who has been an offensive lineman since he started playing football. A quality d lineman has excellent short space quickness and agility. Hand techniques are vastly different also. Not saying it can't be done but it's highly unlikely they would even try unless that o lineman had shown a lot of d lineman skill and potential in high school.

Good stuff Echo.
The only guy I see who may fit the mold is Amil Wagner. He kinda looks like a D lineman
Jmo.

 

[sjb75]

Not true at all. It is certainly rare but it does occur.

You can argue semantics all day if you choose.

It simply doesn’t happen.

 

[echowaker]

You can argue semantics all day if you choose.

It simply doesn’t happen.

So you're saying it's never happened or are you saying you in particular are not aware of it happening ? Big difference. I personally know that it indeed has occurred in the past.

 

[THUNDERSTRUCK111]

Jerry tillery ring a bell

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

You can argue semantics all day if you choose.

It simply doesn’t happen.

Didn't Chris Stewart start as a d-lineman before going to offense? Jerry Tillery? I think Bryant Young and Mike Golic started out as LBs. JJ Watt briefly played as a TE. Braden Fiske played on both sides of the ball throughout his college career. Jared Allen started on offense before switching to defense.

 

[sjb75]

So you're saying it's never happened or are you saying you in particular are not aware of it happening ? Big difference. I personally know that it indeed has occurred in the past.

Of course there are outliers. In the grand scheme of things in CFB, again, it doesn’t happen.

 

[stu4don]

Great discussion fellas! But you don't see Knapp or Jagusah taking Schrauth's spot at G? Man, do we have talent coming back at OL!

 

[echowaker]

Of course there are outliers. In the grand scheme of things in CFB, again, it doesn’t happen.

I guess you're right. Kind of like you giving a well thought out fact based opinion. It doesn't happen...

 

[echowaker]

Great discussion fellas! But you don't see Knapp or Jagusah taking Schrauth's spot at G? Man, do we have talent coming back at OL!

Schrauth ? He's arguably the best lineman they've got.