Brian Kelly has a card????

[Buguit]

"All I had was we were down and we got the chance to put that game into a two-score with a field goal. I don't chase the points until the fourth quarter, and our mathematical chart, which I have on the sideline with me and we have a senior adviser who concurred with me, and we said go for two. It says on our chart to go for two. We usually don't use the chart until the fourth quarter because, again, we don't chase the points. We went for two to make it a 10-point game. So we felt we had the wind with us so we would have to score a touchdown and a field goal because we felt like we probably only had three more possessions. The way they were running the clock and probably get three possessions maximum and we're going to have to score in two out of the three. So it was the smart decision to make, it was the right one to make. Obviously, you know, if we catch the two-point conversion, which was wide open, then we just kick the extra point and we've got a different outcome."

First of all ..... does anyone realize he shouldn't need a card? .... you can't think for yourself and see the obvious .... with 14 minutes left there are so many things that can happen that a card can't predict

Second .... you're calling a pass play in a monsoon .... and then ask Robinson why didn't you catch it?

Third ... you have an advisor who agreed with the card? ... you're the damn head coach

4th .... can the advisor and burn the card ... you're all idiots

5th ... you only go for two if you HAVE TO .... clearly it was too early to determine if you had to

Brian Kelly has assembled a strong team and then does the dumbest things anyone ever saw

Burn the card ... it's wrong .... I'd have more respect for him if he just said he made a mistake .... I can't believe the garbage he is selling ..... 4 to's or not ... we're in OT if he has half a brain regrardless

 

[TurnoverMachine]

Amen! Boggles my mind how stubborn and clueless he is. I kept yelling at my tv for him to go for 1. It shows how overpaid everyone on that staff is.

 

[57Patrick]

Most coaches have cards or something to that effect that can be referenced. The decisions/options on the cards/playsheets are based on projections/odds.

 

[Johnnie82]

The ball went right through Robinson's hands. monsoon or not if he squeezes his hands together it is a catch. Kelly has every right to ask him why he didn't catch that ball.

 

[D_Master]

No going for 2 vs Northwestern was way worse than this. Trying to get the game to a TD + 2 pt + FG when we hadnt scored much i can at least understand, even if i always say you dont go for 2 until the end when you absolutely NEED to. That Nwestern 2 pt attempt was just baffling.

 

[Buguit]

Johnny,

No coach should need a card .... if you have a card it should say the right thing ... then again .... no coach should need a card ..... if the ball goes right through his hands and it's in a monsoon ... logic tells you why he dropped it without asking .....

An expert after the fact ??? .... it doesn't take an expert to know that you don't need to go for 2 with 14 minutes left .... too many things can happen and THEY OFTEN DO ... they needed another TD and FG if they kick the extra point and can still go for 2 IF .... IF .... IF ... nothing else affects the deficit ....... anyone who can't see that should just stop watching football .... everyone I was with was screaming it was a mistake before the 2 point failed .... if it worked ... it doesn't make you smart .... it was still the wrong decision .... clearly

the fact that Brian Kelly doesn't know that is embarrassing .... he robbed his players and the fact he can't take the blame makes it worse

 

[D_Master]

Brian Kelly is a good coach, there is no denying that. After 13 yrs of Davie/Willinghmam/weis he has made ND a relevant national team again. Had we not been decimated by injuries last year i think we win 10 games and he also made it to the NCG in '12. This year I think we have the talent to win a minimum of 10 games so you can see the program really is on good footing. We used to have anamoliy seasons where we'd come from nowhere, get to the BCS and the next 3 years suck. BK has kept the program steady if nothing else. That said he does make some head scratching calls in end of game situations. ie. Tulsa, not playing safe for a fake against MSU in '10 when the guy was kicking from longer than he had ever made from before, Nwestern last year, going for 2 last night.

I just find it funny that a week ago he's recruited this team to be stacked with talent and a near genius and now he's practically a dog.

 

[hoopsstar12]

We dropped pretty far in the polls so others see some issues although I think the weather makes the game less relevant. History is on the side of kicking the extra point. Forget Butch Jones' cards. You destroy momentum and run into your destiny too many times when you go for 2 too early. However, BK is an aggressive coach so he wins some loses some. It's time to move on. The USC game is all that matters now. I say play 5 defensive backs or Cody Kessler lights it up. If we beat USC, the Clemson game becomes a distant memory. The main goal for Navy is win decisively and no injuries. Other teams in front of us will lose eventually.

 

[Buguit]

Brian Kelly is a good coach, there is no denying that. After 13 yrs of Davie/Willinghmam/weis he has made ND a relevant national team again. Had we not been decimated by injuries last year i think we win 10 games and he also made it to the NCG in '12. This year I think we have the talent to win a minimum of 10 games so you can see the program really is on good footing. We used to have anamoliy seasons where we'd come from nowhere, get to the BCS and the next 3 years suck. BK has kept the program steady if nothing else. That said he does make some head scratching calls in end of game situations. ie. Tulsa, not playing safe for a fake against MSU in '10 when the guy was kicking from longer than he had ever made from before, Nwestern last year, going for 2 last night.

I just find it funny that a week ago he's recruited this team to be stacked with talent and a near genius and now he's practically a dog.

Correct ... Brian Kelly has elevated the program .... I in fact think this team is loaded .... we do some things very well ..... Kelly deserves credit for that ..... and yet .... he makes the some of the dumbest decisions ... ever ...... so frustrating .... and then he tries to defend stupid

 

[SALittleGiant513]

I guess I am not sure what the issue is with BK having a card/sheet when all the coaches in the game have one or something very similar.

 

[IrishBlessings]

Buguit. Agree with you 100%. It is amazing how many highly paid college coaches screw up when or when not to go for 2.

It is disappointing that the other two supposedly office coordinator (Sanford) and the offensive consultant (Quinn) or whatever the hell his title is do not have the cajones to get in BK ear and scream in his head set - coach we don't go for 2 here with 14 min. To go. We get 1 here and we are down 11. Still a two score game - by going for 2 too early u run the risk of killing momentum when u don't get it (which didn't really happen last night) but more importantly - with 14 min. Left there is way too much time where there will be most likely more scores and it may work out where u don't even need to go for 2. Which did happen last night. I was screaming at my tv last night to go for 1. Bk unfortunately is not a good in game manager which is mind boggling to me with how much foot ball he has coached.

I will say BK is a great recruiter - our talent level is definitely pretty dam good. The frustrating thing is we are a better team than Clemson. They had no clue how to stop us once we got the O going there in the 4th Q. And even with 4 turnovers and having played pretty bad for 3 qtrs we actually still had a chance and if BK hadn't of Brain farted again we would gone tT. with all the momentum in the world in that spot.

The fact he does not have the ball sack to own up to his bad decision makes me not care one bit if he leaves to the NFL. But with those type of in game blunders he has had during his ND tenure would have to give any NFL owner or gm pause for concern.

if he stays at ND - then that is fine as well as he has proven he can recruit very solid talent. I just hope he Learns from these Blunders and be a better coach going forward.

 

[IrishBlessings]

Not.all.coaches need a card I can guarantee u.that....it is actually not that hard to figure out during a.game when u go for two or not.

 

[theskibro]

I guess I am not sure what the issue is with BK having a card/sheet when all the coaches in the game have one or something very similar.

Translation of having a card: "I have spent a lot of time thinking about various situations" ( this was not a knee jerk decision)
"We have a card" (there is a formula)
" the card and situation called for a 2 pt try " ( I absolutely did the right thing cause the card told me"
" I asked our advisor" ( just in case the card was wrong and also to show I am not the only one making this decision)

This is a pre determined ritual designed to deflect blame. Somehow, I just cannot -- no matter how hard I try -- imagine Lombardy, Rockne, Leahy, Parseghian or any big time coach using "a card"

That said, I would like someone to ask Kelly how "the card" factors a 2 pt try at that point of the game. We could have tied with pats Its crap It's classic Kelly. This guy has cost us 6 games by his own math and decisions. I appreciate what he has done and I hate what he has done. Maddening

 

[Bumpdaddy]

I guess I am not sure what the issue is with BK having a card/sheet when all the coaches in the game have one or something very similar.

This is spot on SAL. The vast majority of coaches have and use the same chart. As Butch Jones can attest, and for that matter, Brian Kelly can also attest after last year's Northwestern game, coaches will feel heat the most when they have a chart but don't use it properly. BK went for 2 last year in the NW game when the chart said not to and Butch Jones didn't go for 2 against OK U when the chart told him to. For those who are wondering, here's the chart most coaches use:

http://www.footballcommentary.com/twoptchart.htm

And here is a great article that explains why the chart is useful:

http://www.slate.com/articles/sport...he_late_game_scenario_in_which_going_for.html

As many of you may have guessed, the chart is mathematically and probability based. Probabilities matter when it comes to winning and losing. Most coaches know that which is why they use the chart, and no, it is not always easy for a coach to know what to do in any given situation. In fact the author of the Slate article argues that, even with the chart and the math to back it up, coaches are still afraid to go for 2 as often or as early as they should, and the reason they do this is because a lot of people believe that you should always wait to go for 2 until you absolutely have to, and "having to" almost always means tying the game. Tying the game only gets you to OT. In OT you only have a 50% chance to win, which means if you only go for 2 when you absolutely have to the best you can hope for is a 50% chance to win. If you go for 2 earlier (and by "earlier" I don't mean "early" - neither the author nor the chart advocates going for 2 early in the game) you can increase your chances of winning to 60% or more. The article explains how this is possible and the math is irrefutable.

Given yesterday's situation the chart backs up Kelly's decision, although admittedly the probability rate was just a little better than a 50/50 proposition. However, that's based on the national 2pt conversion average which is around 47% successful. Kelly's 2pt conversion success rate leading up to that moment in the game since he's been at ND was 60%, so the odds of winning the game by going for 2 at that moment were even greater than the national average. Kelly made the right decision at that moment in the game. As for the play call in both instances? That can be up for debate.

 

[88ND]

Ok. Utterly ridiculous someone saying about a card. Who cares. Some coaches need this, need that, some just ask other people in the headset what do ya think ...2 or 1...blah blah blah. The fact that people are getting on that soap box is pretty childish.

How about this. If OUR so God Damn good players could catch??? Could hold onto the football??? How about we cut half our drops out.....half our turnovers out....we are 5-0 and win that Clemson game by 10 minimum.

But let's talk about a coach referring to a card on the go for two scenarios. Jesus.

Protect the ****ing football. Catch the football. One more.....don't wet yourself at the site of a hostile atmosphere. Oh that's right....these players don't have any major bowl game experience.
I'm the first guy to criticize the coaches but blaming this loss on an extra point reference card seems nothing less than self entitled bullshit.
Make your own luck!!!

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Ski all the coaches you listed came before an era of analytics. The information on the card can be wrong or the way BK interprets the information could be wrong. But the use of the card is not out of the ordinary.

 

[Pennick4]

Belichik has a card. His advisor up in the booth is Erie Adams. The OP is as clueless in football as he is in hoops.

 

[twalsh]

First, every college and pro coach has a "card", and most have someone who's job it is to let him know when a "card" situation is in play and what the card says to do. There's too much going on too quickly to expect someone to stop everything and calculate all that stuff in real time. That said, I disagreed with going for two when we did. Not because of the score being 21-9, but because there was almost an entire quarter left in the game and our defense had been playing very well. I know why he made his decision, I just think there was too much time left on the clock and I would have opted to take the point. Of course we have missed two PATs this season.

 

[Buguit]

Belichik has a card. His advisor up in the booth is Erie Adams. The OP is as clueless in football as he is in hoops.

You kick the extra point and you're down 11 ..... there is 14 minutes left in the game .... in a monsoon no less where turnovers can happen at any time ..... 8+3=11 .... that is 1st grade math

I guess that is over your head .... nobody should need a card for that

 

[BGI User 348]

I agree 110% with BK on this!!!!! ND did NOT lose the game based on this..........Players gotta make plays!!!


GET BETTER!!!

 

[cgvr]

I agree 110% with BK on this!!!!! ND did NOT lose the game based on this..........Players gotta make plays!!!


GET BETTER!!!

It certainly contributed.... No one gets a pass in this loss.

Clemson was beatable and we let a major opportunity slip away.

Kudos to them for the win and we better hope that they hold form. (I will repeat, I think Dabo is a heckuva guy).

A win would have placed us smack dab in the thick of the playoff picture. Now we need help. That's reality.

If Clemson can hold form and our only loss is this 2 pointer to them then it may be more attractive than other 1 loss teams.

Right now we do not control our own destiny. We lost that by playing well below average....

Some of that was Clemson's doing. Some wasn't.

We need help for a title run and that's on everyone...kelly included....

 

[Java65]

I agree 110% with BK on this!!!!! ND did NOT lose the game based on this..........Players gotta make plays!!!


GET BETTER!!!

I always love this. Clemson players dropped a lot of passes too. If I'm a Clemson fan I could argue that if my players had made plays we win 56-3.

The decision to go for 2 was wrong and then we doubled down on the stupidity by having to take a TO because of the confusion. So while still having time to think about it he still goes for 2. With 1/4 of the game still to go way too early for that and this was proven correct at the end of the game.

The very end of the game the 2 point play call was just plain awful call. Yea, players gotta make plays but coaches need to put them into the position to be successful.

 

[Dbldomr]

Ok. Utterly ridiculous someone saying about a card. Who cares. Some coaches need this, need that, some just ask other people in the headset what do ya think ...2 or 1...blah blah blah. The fact that people are getting on that soap box is pretty childish.

How about this. If OUR so God Damn good players could catch??? Could hold onto the football??? How about we cut half our drops out.....half our turnovers out....we are 5-0 and win that Clemson game by 10 minimum.

But let's talk about a coach referring to a card on the go for two scenarios. Jesus.

Protect the ****ing football. Catch the football. One more.....don't wet yourself at the site of a hostile atmosphere. Oh that's right....these players don't have any major bowl game experience.
I'm the first guy to criticize the coaches but blaming this loss on an extra point reference card seems nothing less than self entitled bullshit.
Make your own luck!!!

Amen

 

[Irishjohn68]

Funny how when ND wins we see nothing of Buguit, but when ND loses he is the great all knowing poster. Bow down to the great Buguit!

 

[twalsh]

Funny how when ND wins we see nothing of Buguit, but when ND loses he is the great all knowing poster. Bow down to the great Buguit!

Are you thinking Buguit and Bubba are the same person? Bubba shows up everytime we lose.

 

[Pennick4]

Are you thinking Buguit and Bubba are the same person? Bubba shows up everytime we lose.

Not fair to Bubba to compare him to Buguit. If you have ever read Buguits thoughts on the bball program, you would agree. Clueless!!

 

[Buguit]

Not fair to Bubba to compare him to Buguit. If you have ever read Buguits thoughts on the bball program, you would agree. Clueless!!

You wouldn't know anything about ball if you bunked with Bobby Knight for half your life. Gotta hand it to you though your batting 1000 when it comes to taking sides for defending stupid.

 

[Buguit]

Funny how when ND wins we see nothing of Buguit, but when ND loses he is the great all knowing poster. Bow down to the great Buguit!

I am a problem solver. This issue should be painfully obvious. At least to anyone that can add 8+3

 

[DieHard_Irish]

"All I had was we were down and we got the chance to put that game into a two-score with a field goal. I don't chase the points until the fourth quarter, and our mathematical chart, which I have on the sideline with me and we have a senior adviser who concurred with me, and we said go for two. It says on our chart to go for two. We usually don't use the chart until the fourth quarter because, again, we don't chase the points. We went for two to make it a 10-point game. So we felt we had the wind with us so we would have to score a touchdown and a field goal because we felt like we probably only had three more possessions. The way they were running the clock and probably get three possessions maximum and we're going to have to score in two out of the three. So it was the smart decision to make, it was the right one to make. Obviously, you know, if we catch the two-point conversion, which was wide open, then we just kick the extra point and we've got a different outcome."

First of all ..... does anyone realize he shouldn't need a card? .... you can't think for yourself and see the obvious .... with 14 minutes left there are so many things that can happen that a card can't predict

Second .... you're calling a pass play in a monsoon .... and then ask Robinson why didn't you catch it?

Third ... you have an advisor who agreed with the card? ... you're the damn head coach

4th .... can the advisor and burn the card ... you're all idiots

5th ... you only go for two if you HAVE TO .... clearly it was too early to determine if you had to

Brian Kelly has assembled a strong team and then does the dumbest things anyone ever saw

Burn the card ... it's wrong .... I'd have more respect for him if he just said he made a mistake .... I can't believe the garbage he is selling ..... 4 to's or not ... we're in OT if he has half a brain regrardless

 

[DieHard_Irish]

"All I had was we were down and we got the chance to put that game into a two-score with a field goal. I don't chase the points until the fourth quarter, and our mathematical chart, which I have on the sideline with me and we have a senior adviser who concurred with me, and we said go for two. It says on our chart to go for two. We usually don't use the chart until the fourth quarter because, again, we don't chase the points. We went for two to make it a 10-point game. So we felt we had the wind with us so we would have to score a touchdown and a field goal because we felt like we probably only had three more possessions. The way they were running the clock and probably get three possessions maximum and we're going to have to score in two out of the three. So it was the smart decision to make, it was the right one to make. Obviously, you know, if we catch the two-point conversion, which was wide open, then we just kick the extra point and we've got a different outcome."

First of all ..... does anyone realize he shouldn't need a card? .... you can't think for yourself and see the obvious .... with 14 minutes left there are so many things that can happen that a card can't predict

Second .... you're calling a pass play in a monsoon .... and then ask Robinson why didn't you catch it?

Third ... you have an advisor who agreed with the card? ... you're the damn head coach

4th .... can the advisor and burn the card ... you're all idiots

5th ... you only go for two if you HAVE TO .... clearly it was too early to determine if you had to

Brian Kelly has assembled a strong team and then does the dumbest things anyone ever saw

Burn the card ... it's wrong .... I'd have more respect for him if he just said he made a mistake .... I can't believe the garbage he is selling ..... 4 to's or not ... we're in OT if he has half a brain regrardless

Another useless post. Obviously you don't know squat about coaching

 

[Pennick4]

I am a problem solver. This issue should be painfully obvious. At least to anyone that can add 8+3

Your a problem solver alright.

 

[NDCap]

I will say this . BK explaining the card thing to the press is ridiculous. 21-9 ? He needs a card ? Guys how many games has he coached? All he had to say was we felt we needed the 2 point at some point IF we were to keep Clemson at 21 so we chose to go for it now. He forgot that Clemson still would get the ball. With 14:13 to go. That 2 point decision was a hot mess from the start. Kicking team came on the field , BK changes his mind, calls TO, Robinson/ Brown forget to go in the game???? and then he targets Robinson??? The guy has had a terrible year and drops a TD pass earlier . IDK I just would not have him as the go to guy fo an important play like that. Tough catch too. Trips rub route , procise in flat anything but that.

 

[Buguit]

Your a problem solver alright.

Yes .... like I can stop the flow of misinformation and flat out wrong information .... like everything you say .... not a hard job

 

[Irishjohn68]

Yes .... like I can stop the flow of misinformation and flat out wrong information .... like everything you say .... not a hard job

Buguit, why aren't you coach the ND football? What the hell, you should coach the basketball team also. Asshole!

 

[Buguit]

Buguit, why aren't you coach the ND football? What the hell, you should coach the basketball team also. Asshole!

I have to say that made me laugh ....that's funny ... this is where I declare myself the winner of this discussion

 

[theskibro]

Sal
I get that. I am highly frustrated cause card or not. I think the smart play is to wait and see what happens and then do what you need to do

We coulda. Shoulda. Woulda of Coach waits

 

[sshulk]

Kelly went for two in 1st quarter of Virginia game out of a high school formation (and failed) ... Why did the card say on that one? And what is our success rate under Kelly on 2pt conversions?

 

[perseverare]

First, every college and pro coach has a "card", . .