BK--and fans--blindsided by AS?

[twalsh]

Sigh......IMO ND deserves a top AS staff. A staff that tracks class attendance, class performance, study halls, tests, papers, assigns tutors, works on schedules, motivates students for academic success, gives prelim tests.....everything LEGAL to help Student-athletes succeed and graduate! With all of the above in place I would expect EVERY motivated ND athlete to stay eligible. If they are NOT doing their job in the classroom then the coaches should kick butt. Anyone that still falls short probably does not want to be at ND......and should transfer.

Is ND's AS unit doing their BEST?????

GET BETTER!!!

We have. especially in relative terms, a rigorous curriculum, we keep kids on a four year graduation track, versus five or longer, we have no easy majors to hide kids in, and every year we might have one kid academically ineligible, maybe two max. You could more easily argue that our Academic Support staff is doing an outstanding job given all the circumstances in which they operate. The idea that, with 100 or more kids in the program, we should never have any kid have academic issues is pure fantasy.

 

[cgvr]

We have. especially in relative terms, a rigorous curriculum, we keep kids on a four year graduation track, versus five or longer, we have no easy majors to hide kids in, and every year we might have one kid academically ineligible, maybe two max. You could more easily argue that our Academic Support staff is doing an outstanding job given all the circumstances in which they operate. The idea that, with 100 or more kids in the program, we should never have any kid have academic issues is pure fantasy.

I'm not sure what tracking mechanisms the team is using. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out (after papers/tests/projects 1 and/or 2) where a student stands. Anyone on the bubble, especially starters, should be zeroed in on. I'm guessing it was done and Jones crapped out.... PS The use of summer classes helps ease/spread out the academic burden....

 

[NDEwing18]

he didn't say that; but you posting he did will likely acerbate matters for the OP and his subsequent comment. Re-read the thread.
What he was saying was that there was a breakdown in the support system and communication system. Nowhere did he absolve the student from his responsibilities. 2 wrongs: failure. How do we know this? The results.

How do you know there was a breakdown in the support system and communication system.

 

[NDEwing18]

Sigh......IMO ND deserves a top AS staff. A staff that tracks class attendance, class performance, study halls, tests, papers, assigns tutors, works on schedules, motivates students for academic success, gives prelim tests.....everything LEGAL to help Student-athletes succeed and graduate! With all of the above in place I would expect EVERY motivated ND athlete to stay eligible. If they are NOT doing their job in the classroom then the coaches should kick butt. Anyone that still falls short probably does not want to be at ND......and should transfer.

Is ND's AS unit doing their BEST?????

GET BETTER!!!

College grades are generally based on tests and papers. Academic support staff can't take tests for students. They can't write papers for students (though they can probably assist, to some extent, with review, editing, etc.).

At some point, it's incumbent on the student-athlete to get the job done.

No one here has given any shred of evidence that our academic support staff is doing anything other than their best.

 

[twalsh]

I'm not sure what tracking mechanisms the team is using. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out (after papers/tests/projects 1 and/or 2) where a student stands. Anyone on the bubble, especially starters, should be zeroed in on. I'm guessing it was done and Jones crapped out.... PS The use of summer classes helps ease/spread out the academic burden....

It had to be something that he failed to do in the summer session, given that we are finding out about it in early August. It's not necessarily complicated. Say he needs a B- in the course. He's on track for the whole session for a B or B-, all is good, then he bombs the final and ends up with a C. It doesn't have to be a "oh my God, how did that happen" moment.

 

[cgvr]

It had to be something that he failed to do in the summer session, given that we are finding out about it in early August. It's not necessarily complicated. Say he needs a B- in the course. He's on track for the whole session for a B or B-, all is good, then he bombs the final and ends up with a C. It doesn't have to be a "oh my God, how did that happen" moment.

Very true....

PS The worst class I ever took was an independent study class....

All of a sudden it was October? (I think) and I hadn't done a thing and had to drop it....

 

[Pennick44]

Very true....

PS The worst class I ever took was an independent study class....

All of a sudden it was October? (I think) and I hadn't done a thing and had to drop it....

Great story.

 

[perseverare]

College grades are generally based on tests and papers. Academic support staff can't take tests for students. They can't write papers for students (though they can probably assist, to some extent, with review, editing, etc.).

At some point, it's incumbent on the student-athlete to get the job done.

No one here has given any shred of evidence that our academic support staff is doing anything other than their best.

"then why is Pvt. Santiago dead?"

 

[echowaker]

College grades are generally based on tests and papers. Academic support staff can't take tests for students. They can't write papers for students (though they can probably assist, to some extent, with review, editing, etc.).

At some point, it's incumbent on the student-athlete to get the job done.

No one here has given any shred of evidence that our academic support staff is doing anything other than their best.

exactly. this is all on mr. jones and nowhere else.

 

[BGI User 348]

Continuing.......I am on this board and on und.com and on NBC etc to watch ND football success. Players given a scholly to such a great university should take full advantage of the academics AND thereby stay eligible too......but if they do not it is fully on them. In running a major football business---yes a business---ND needs quality control in place as much for football strategy as for academic progress. AS's job is to keep everyone on track & eligible. If they do not have enough resources then shame on the AD. I doubt this is the case. Further they had better not have to monitor all 100 players daily. If they do ND is on the verge of major problems. My guess is 50+% are good responsible students who take care of studies. Another 25 may need a little help, leaving 25 or so to really concentrate on.
If one grade in one (easy?) summer school class was the "straw" then the problem really occurred over the past two years on all the other courses.......which is where AS needed to work to keep from getting here.

I do know that only AJ, BK, the AD, and AS know what went "wrong". If BK really was not surprised then he knew it was coming. Hopefully his coaches have planned for it.

 

[NDEwing18]

Continuing.......I am on this board and on und.com and on NBC etc to watch ND football success. Players given a scholly to such a great university should take full advantage of the academics AND thereby stay eligible too......but if they do not it is fully on them. In running a major football business---yes a business---ND needs quality control in place as much for football strategy as for academic progress. AS's job is to keep everyone on track & eligible. If they do not have enough resources then shame on the AD. I doubt this is the case. Further they had better not have to monitor all 100 players daily. If they do ND is on the verge of major problems. My guess is 50+% are good responsible students who take care of studies. Another 25 may need a little help, leaving 25 or so to really concentrate on.
If one grade in one (easy?) summer school class was the "straw" then the problem really occurred over the past two years on all the other courses.......which is where AS needed to work to keep from getting here.

I do know that only AJ, BK, the AD, and AS know what went "wrong". If BK really was not surprised then he knew it was coming. Hopefully his coaches have planned for it.

Academic support can't take tests or write papers for student-athletes. At the end of the day, it's the student-athlete's responsibility to remain eligible.

Or maybe personal responsibility no longer matters?

 

[Pennick44]

Continuing.......I am on this board and on und.com and on NBC etc to watch ND football success. Players given a scholly to such a great university should take full advantage of the academics AND thereby stay eligible too......but if they do not it is fully on them. In running a major football business---yes a business---ND needs quality control in place as much for football strategy as for academic progress. AS's job is to keep everyone on track & eligible. If they do not have enough resources then shame on the AD. I doubt this is the case. Further they had better not have to monitor all 100 players daily. If they do ND is on the verge of major problems. My guess is 50+% are good responsible students who take care of studies. Another 25 may need a little help, leaving 25 or so to really concentrate on.
If one grade in one (easy?) summer school class was the "straw" then the problem really occurred over the past two years on all the other courses.......which is where AS needed to work to keep from getting here.

I do know that only AJ, BK, the AD, and AS know what went "wrong". If BK really was not surprised then he knew it was coming. Hopefully his coaches have planned for it.

You're blaming everyone but the person responsible.

 

[bizzybecknd]

These guys' idea of Academic Support is the idea of the North Carolina/Alabama's of the world (football players must pass, especially the starters). It's a simple lack of understanding what earning a college education with integrity is all about, especially at a place like ND. The finger should be pointed in one direction, at Alize, and he himself understands that.

And quit bitching about it potentially hurting recruiting. BK and his staff are very transparent on what it takes to be a student-athlete at ND, they do not try to cover up the rigors of both going to school and playing football at ND. No doubt ND loses out on kids every year because of this but that's the way it is and if that means sacrificing national championships because of it, then so be it.

 

[greengael]

These guys' idea of Academic Support is the idea of the North Carolina/Alabama's of the world (football players must pass, especially the starters). It's a simple lack of understanding what earning a college education with integrity is all about, especially at a place like ND. The finger should be pointed in one direction, at Alize, and he himself understands that.

And quit bitching about it potentially hurting recruiting. BK and his staff are very transparent on what it takes to be a student-athlete at ND, they do not try to cover up the rigors of both going to school and playing football at ND. No doubt ND loses out on kids every year because of this but that's the way it is and if that means sacrificing national championships because of it, then so be it.

+1

 

[BGI User 348]

Sooooo.....some of you appear happy with this type of role for AS at ND:

BK to AS: "WTF happened with AJ? Why did he not get the grade?"

AS reply: "We told him he had to study during frosh orientation. Not my job mon."

 

[perseverare]

Sooooo.....some of you appear happy with this type of role for AS at ND:

BK to AS: "WTF happened with AJ? Why did he not get the grade?"

AS reply: "We told him he had to study during frosh orientation. Not my job mon."

348:
forgetaboutit: they are so used to excuses and convoluted explanations, they can do it while walking and chewing bubble gum, now!

 

[bizzybecknd]

You seem to be making excuses, looking for answers and finger pointing at coaches, academic support staff and whoever else; when the only explanation points squarely at the 19 year old kid who has fully accepted responsibility for his shortcomings. The teenager has accepted responsibility, why cant you?

 

[Pennick44]

Sooooo.....some of you appear happy with this type of role for AS at ND:

BK to AS: "WTF happened with AJ? Why did he not get the grade?"

AS reply: "We told him he had to study during frosh orientation. Not my job mon."

They probably told him because that AJ didn't even put forth the minimal effort necessary to pass a simmer class

You seem to be making excuses, looking for answers and finger pointing at coaches, academic support staff and whoever else; when the only explanation points squarely at the 19 year old kid who has fully accepted responsibility for his shortcomings. The teenager has accepted responsibility, why cant you?

I hope 348 never has kids. He will be wiping his kids behind till the kid goes to college. Personal accountability is a foreign concept to many here.

 

[BGI User 348]

Sooooo.....some of you appear happy with this type of role for AS at ND:

BK to AS: "WTF happened with AJ? Why did he not get the grade?"

AS reply: "We told him he had to study during frosh orientation. Not my job mon."

I was expecting better quotes in reply....Ha ha. JUST WIN BABY!!!

 

[THUNDERSTRUCK111]

Notre dame was made famous because of the football team. It makes millions of dollars from the football team. If You are proud of a academic national championship and do not care if the football program finishes dead last in the polls then why don't you root for a Ivy League school instead . Am I proud of the academics ? Absolutely but let's face it ND is not the number 1 institution overall for academics . I would rather wear a football national championship hat instead of a academic N C hat on. Jmo

 

[hvillebill]

Notre dame was made famous because of the football team. It makes millions of dollars from the football team. If You are proud of a academic national championship and do not care if the football program finishes dead last in the polls then why don't you root for a Ivy League school instead . Am I proud of the academics ? Absolutely but let's face it ND is not the number 1 institution overall for academics . I would rather wear a football national championship hat instead of a academic N C hat on. Jmo

Please point out where anyone said that. I believe it would bother all of us if that ever happened.

 

[THUNDERSTRUCK111]

Please point out where anyone said that. I believe it would bother all of us if that ever happened.

lol a very weak strawman argument...hville..look at bizzybecks statement..that says it all ..second place is the first loser.(YOU LIKED BTW) 9th place trophys may be good enough for you , but the rest of us die hards are not happy with the admin. again jmo

 

[Granite45]

Another thread with divided opinions; relatively easy to identify non-alumni posts.

 

[THUNDERSTRUCK111]

Yes the nobles have spoken !!! May the peons adhere !! I get your drift granite 45

 

[cgvr]

Yes the nobles have spoken !!! May the peons adhere !! I get your drift granite 45

 

[hvillebill]

lol a very weak strawman argument...hville..look at bizzybecks statement..that says it all ..second place is the first loser.(YOU LIKED BTW) 9th place trophys may be good enough for you , but the rest of us die hards are not happy with the admin. again jmo

All he said was "if it sacrifices National Championships, then so be it". That's hardly winding up last in the polls.

As for "diehards"? You can include me in that category. I want an NC as much as the next guy, but only doing it the right way. I would never want ND to compromise their principles in order to win more games.

By the way, it's "trophies".