Assuming the Worst...

[TheDecker]

If you assume the basically everyone who can leave for the NFL, does leave, what do you think the 2016 Depth Chart looks like
(For the most part, it's easy to slot these guys back in at the top of their respective positions)

Players who asked for an NFL evaluation:

1. Stanley
2. Jaylon
3. Fuller
4. Russell
5. Prosise

My guess:

Bold = returning starter
" / " = tied on depth chart
" , " = ordered on depth chart

QB -- Kizer / Zaire , Wimbush
RB -- Folston / Adams , D. Williams / Brent
WRx -- Hunter , Holmes / Guyton
WRw -- Robinson / St. Brown , Boykin
WRz -- Sanders , Brent
TE -- A. Jones / Smythe , Weishar / Luatua
LT -- Bars , Bivin
LG -- Nelson , Montelus
C -- Mustipher / Hodge
RG -- Elmer , McGovern
RT -- McGlinchey , Bivin

WDE -- Trumbetti , Randolph / Kareem
NT -- J. Jones / Cage , Mokwuah / Tiassum
DT -- Tillery , Matsuka / Hayes / Dew-Treadway
SDE -- Rochell , Blankenship / Bonner
WLB -- Coney / Barajas
MLB -- Morgan / Martini / Grace
SLB -- Onwaulu , Tranquill / Bilal
CB -- Luke , Coleman / Watkins
CB -- Crawford , Coleman / Watkins
NB -- Crawford
FS -- Redfield , Butler / White
SS -- Avery / Tranquill , M. Williams

Looking at this, we could end up pretty young for 2016 (if everyone leaves) and thin at some surprising positions (Slot WR)

 

[TimTerrific]

The Irish are very deep and very talented. Even with players off to the NFL Kelly will have them in the top 10 next season.

 

[akwilliams]

offense looks fine, it will be tough on defense unless our scheme changes

 

[TheDecker]

I actually think of the players fit the current scheme pretty well from a size, and athleticism standpoint.

What would be the most concerning to me, if we have a similar scheme, would be the youth at linebacker and DB, and who would be lining the defense up.

We have more than a physical talent to be a good defense. We need to put them in a position to succeed right away

 

[IrishBlooded]

Fuller already announced he is coming back weeks ago.

Did this change?

 

[mirer03]

I think the defensive scheme will actually fit the young depth on defense better then some of the current defensive personnel. Guys moving up the depth chart have great athletes and this scheme will allow the most athletic guys to thrive. We are now recruiting to match our schemes on both sides of the ball and over the next two years that should pay serious dividends. The good thing about the guys moving up is they have been understudies in the scheme for two years now. they will be much better prepared to step in then when they were forced to action last year. The influx of athleticism will make the defense less predictable which is a good thing. Now can they tackle with appropriate technique and not miss tackles when their athleticism gets them into position?... well that remains to be seen.

 

[TheDecker]

Fuller already announced he is coming back weeks ago.

Did this change?

Yeah

The word is that he's now leaning towards the NFL and he definitely put his name in for evaluation

Hopefully he comes back
His ability to stretch the field vertically adds a very dangerous element to our defense and makes it exceedingly hard to defend

 

[Irish2684]

St Brown will step right into Fullers shoes if he leaves.

 

[TheDecker]

St Brown will step right into Fullers shoes if he leaves.

I think Saint Brown can be VERY good, but he's a totally different kind of WR than Fuller

Fuller strentched the field vertically for this offense, forcing safeties to back WAYYY up....which gave a lot of room for the run game between the 20's

We'll be fine at WR, but that specific skillset would be hard for us to replace and would definitely be missed

 

[IrishBlooded]

The word is that he's now leaning towards the NFL

link to this?

 

[TheDecker]

link to this?

I've only seen reports of it on the premium boards, since he hasn't come out with any kind of official statement (beyond submitting for an NFL evaluation)

But it's being reported pretty widely on those boards

 

[mh2365]

Bold = returning starter
" / " = tied on depth chart
" , " = ordered on depth chart

QB -- Kizer, Zaire , Wimbush

fixed

 

[Kelso86]

I've only seen reports of it on the premium boards, since he hasn't come out with any kind of official statement (beyond submitting for an NFL evaluation)

But it's being reported pretty widely on those boards

I can see Fuller taking a look to see where he projects -- nothing wrong with that. I do expect him back though, along with CJ.

 

[TheDecker]

fixed

I expect an open QB competition between those two

Whoever shows our best during the spring, summer, fall camp and quite possibly the 1st game or (or 3) will have to earn the starting spot

I'd be very surprised if a starter was named before mid August (barring a health issue)

 

[TheDecker]

I can see Fuller taking a look to see where he projects -- nothing wrong with that. I do expect him back though, along with CJ.

I hope that's true. But it sounds like he's leaning towards the NFL

I'm sure it will depend heavily on the evaluation he receives

 

[mh2365]

I expect an open QB competition between those two

Whoever shows our best during the spring, summer, fall camp and quite possibly the 1st game or (or 3) will have to earn the starting spot

I'd be very surprised if a starter was named before mid August (barring a health issue)

you will be very surprised then ... won't have to "name" a starter ... it's Kizer's job

 

[FLballcoach1]

Zaire is an electric athlete and a playmaker. He will NOT be standing on the sidelines watching football. Where he olays and how much he plays I don't know. But make no mistake he will play.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Zaire is an electric athlete and a playmaker. He will NOT be standing on the sidelines watching football. Where he olays and how much he plays I don't know. But make no mistake he will play.

Where can he play besides QB? I'm not sure of his 40 times, but I don't think he's athletic enough for the other skill positions. That doesn't even take into account that he hasn't practiced at those positions and the other guys have way more experience.

I think he's a good athlete for the QB position, but I wouldn't call him electric nor do I think he has the size/athletic package to play over other guys at different positions.

I think ND needs him to be the #2 QB so they can redshirt Wimbush. That's where he helps ND most, IMO.

 

[TheDecker]

you will be very surprised then ... won't have to "name" a starter ... it's Kizer's job

We'll see

I expect Kelly to say that the QB position is an open competition in fall camp, and both players will have to battle if they want to start.

I don't care which one wins the job, but I'll be both suprised and disappointed if Kelly names a starting QB before mid-August

 

[TheDecker]

Where can he play besides QB? I'm not sure of his 40 times, but I don't think he's athletic enough for the other skill positions. That doesn't even take into account that he hasn't practiced at those positions and the other guys have way more experience.

I think he's a good athlete for the QB position, but I wouldn't call him electric nor do I think he has the size/athletic package to play over other guys at different positions.

I think ND needs him to be the #2 QB so they can redshirt Wimbush. That's where he helps ND most, IMO.

I agree he shouldn't move positions

However, given Kizer's struggles in the red-zone and short yardage, and Zaire's expertise in the option...

If Kizer retains the starting QB position (despite what some think, that's simply not a given, AT ALL) then I would want to see Zaire as the #2 QB but I'd also want to see him getting 5-10 snaps a game (at least) especially with a short-yardage and red-zone package designed for him. You could also use him as a "change of pace" QB for at least 1 series a game, to force the defense to prepare for him as well and keep him 100% game ready

 

[FightingIrish44]

I agree he shouldn't move positions

However, given Kizer's struggles in the red-zone and short yardage, and Zaire's expertise in the option...

If Kizer retains the starting QB position (despite what some think, that's simply not a given, AT ALL) then I would want to see Zaire as the #2 QB but I'd also want to see him getting 5-10 snaps a game (at least) especially with a short-yardage and red-zone package designed for him. You could also use him as a "change of pace" QB for at least 1 series a game, to force the defense to prepare for him as well and keep him 100% game ready

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think Zaire adds anything to the offensive playbook that Kizer isn't already doing. They both have good arms and are good athletes. Putting him in only serves to breakup Kizer's rythem, IMO. Best to keep him on the bench. It sucks for him, but its best for the team and at least ND knows they have a solid #2 QB whoever that may be.

I don't think its a good idea to play a second QB, who has the same skillset as the first QB, for a series or two just because.

 

[Get Nasty]

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think Zaire adds anything to the offensive playbook that Kizer isn't already doing. They both have good arms and are good athletes. Putting him in only serves to breakup Kizer's rythem, IMO. Best to keep him on the bench. It sucks for him, but its best for the team and at least ND knows they have a solid #2 QB whoever that may be.

I don't think its a good idea to play a second QB, who has the same skillset as the first QB, for a series or two just because.

Zaire has a stronger arm, more mobility, and runs the read option much better (Huge in the red zone). Kizer is probably a little more savvy, possibly more accurate, and he has the height advantage to see the field.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Zaire has a stronger arm, more mobility, and runs the read option much better (Huge in the red zone). Kizer is probably a little more savvy, possibly more accurate, and he has the height advantage to see the field.

Fair points although I think its a stretch to say he runs the read option better. ND has four different plays where they option the end for give/keep. I don't recall Zaire running any of the other two plays at all. Kizer runs those plays about as well as you can expect your typical QB to run them.

As far as having more height, mobility, and a stronger arm, I agree those are all true. However, I still think Kizer has a good arm, good accuracy, mobile enough to run for 80 yard touchdowns, and he's got some decent height.

Seeing that Zaire isn't actually bringing something different to the table, do you still want to risk playing him?

 

[mh2365]

We'll see

I expect Kelly to say that the QB position is an open competition in fall camp, and both players will have to battle if they want to start.

I don't care which one wins the job, but I'll be both suprised and disappointed if Kelly names a starting QB before mid-August

expect to be surprised and disappointed then ... don't even think he has to name one because it's common sense

 

[mh2365]

I agree he shouldn't move positions

However, given Kizer's struggles in the red-zone and short yardage, and Zaire's expertise in the option...

If Kizer retains the starting QB position (despite what some think, that's simply not a given, AT ALL) then I would want to see Zaire as the #2 QB but I'd also want to see him getting 5-10 snaps a game (at least) especially with a short-yardage and red-zone package designed for him. You could also use him as a "change of pace" QB for at least 1 series a game, to force the defense to prepare for him as well and keep him 100% game ready

Zaire 12 plays in the red zone vs. Virginia ... zero touchdowns .... it's not just Kizer that struggles in the red zone

 

[zuskie]

Zaire 12 plays in the red zone vs. Virginia ... zero touchdowns .... it's not just Kizer that struggles in the red zone

No no no...don't refer to data. It ruins the narrative.

 

[Get Nasty]

No no no...don't refer to data. It ruins the narrative.

There's no doubt the play calling has been an issue and is definitely a part of the redzone issues, but having a really good Read Option definitely helps down there. Kizer at times just did not look comfortable passing in the red zone. Something he can easily improve on.

 

[artemis gordon]

If you assume the basically everyone who can leave for the NFL, does leave, what do you think the 2016 Depth Chart looks like
(For the most part, it's easy to slot these guys back in at the top of their respective positions)

Players who asked for an NFL evaluation:

1. Stanley
2. Jaylon
3. Fuller
4. Russell
5. Prosise

My guess:

Bold = returning starter
" / " = tied on depth chart
" , " = ordered on depth chart

QB -- Kizer / Zaire , Wimbush
RB -- Folston / Adams , D. Williams / Brent
WRx -- Hunter , Holmes / Guyton
WRw -- Robinson / St. Brown , Boykin
WRz -- Sanders , Brent
TE -- A. Jones / Smythe , Weishar / Luatua
LT -- Bars , Bivin
LG -- Nelson , Montelus
C -- Mustipher / Hodge
RG -- Elmer , McGovern
RT -- McGlinchey , Bivin

WDE -- Trumbetti , Randolph / Kareem
NT -- J. Jones / Cage , Mokwuah / Tiassum
DT -- Tillery , Matsuka / Hayes / Dew-Treadway
SDE -- Rochell , Blankenship / Bonner
WLB -- Coney / Barajas
MLB -- Morgan / Martini / Grace
SLB -- Onwaulu , Tranquill / Bilal
CB -- Luke , Coleman / Watkins
CB -- Crawford , Coleman / Watkins
NB -- Crawford
FS -- Redfield , Butler / White
SS -- Avery / Tranquill , M. Williams

Looking at this, we could end up pretty young for 2016 (if everyone leaves) and thin at some surprising positions (Slot WR)

If healthy you have to get Tranquill on the field with his athletic ability.

 

[ndfaithful8]

Personally I think that Fuller leaves.

Coming back next year is not going to help him. His biggest knock on him is he doesn't use his hands enough to catch the ball. He has not done it up to this point and come get back next year isn't going to make him do it either.

He will be a 2-4 round. If AL Davis was still around he would take a chance in the first two rounds.

 

[TheDecker]

Zaire 12 plays in the red zone vs. Virginia ... zero touchdowns .... it's not just Kizer that struggles in the red zone

Do you even bother to try to and verify anything, before posting your BS?
(Zaire was 1/3 for Red-Zone TDs against....so you're whole post is just full of sh*t)

Zaire was 7/13 on Red-Zone TD's (54%)
Kizer was very similar (57%)

However, the only games where the offense under Kizer was above 50% for Red-Zone TDs was UMass (not something I really count), Wake Forest (meh), and Pittsburgh (actually pretty impressive)

Additionally, the offense has 7 Red-Zone Turnovers under Kizer.....and 0 under Zaire

The Red-Zone offense under Kizer has left a lot to be desired

 

[TheDecker]

No no no...don't refer to data. It ruins the narrative.

This post looks pretty stupid, when you're just blindly hitching your trailer to someone who just made up all the "data" he tried to present

I suggest you do a little more thinking on your own

 

[TheDecker]

Personally I think that Fuller leaves.

Coming back next year is not going to help him. His biggest knock on him is he doesn't use his hands enough to catch the ball. He has not done it up to this point and come get back next year isn't going to make him do it either.

He will be a 2-4 round. If AL Davis was still around he would take a chance in the first two rounds.

I would argue the opposite, but for the same reasons. I agree that he's probably around a 3rd Round Pick right now

But I think he can significantly improve that by showing improved consistency catching the ball...which he can do
He's shown he has quality hands when he focuses. He needs to practice his technique on hand placement and improve his focus on the easy catches

If he comes back, I think he can show improvement in these areas, and be a 1st/2nd round pick next year

 

[TheDecker]

If healthy you have to get Tranquill on the field with his athletic ability.

Agree

Health was the only question, which is why I listed him as backup at mutliple positions

I think he'll be a utility knife type of player, and if he stays healthy he play a lot

 

[mh2365]

Do you even bother to try to and verify anything, before posting your BS?
(Zaire was 1/3 for Red-Zone TDs against....so you're whole post is just full of sh*t)

Zaire was 7/13 on Red-Zone TD's (54%)
Kizer was very similar (57%)

However, the only games where the offense under Kizer was above 50% for Red-Zone TDs was UMass (not something I really count), Wake Forest (meh), and Pittsburgh (actually pretty impressive)

Additionally, the offense has 7 Red-Zone Turnovers under Kizer.....and 0 under Zaire

The Red-Zone offense under Kizer has left a lot to be desired

Zaire ran 12 red zone plays against Virginia and scored zero TD's .... you are starting to sound like the real Decker and if you are we all know your history of backing QB's against my history of being right about them so I think we can just move on ....

sort of sounds like you are the real Decker because he liked to pick or discount games that proved his theories also ... remember the Golson in games played at night after October bullshit you spouted LOL .... good to see you back little guy ....

 

[TheDecker]

So now it only counts if he runs or passes the TD in himself, and the act that he was leading the offense in the red zone and they scored a TD doesn't...lol

Good to see you haven't gotten any smarter

As I said....completely made up BS

 

[TheDecker]

Zaire ran 12 red zone plays against Virginia and scored zero TD's .... you are starting to sound like the real Decker and if you are we all know your history of backing QB's against my history of being right about them so I think we can just move on ....

sort of sounds like you are the real Decker because he liked to pick or discount games that proved his theories also ... remember the Golson in games played at night after October bullshit you spouted LOL .... good to see you back little guy ....

And suddenly you think it's good Golson transferred?

He would have been the starter for us this season (maybe over Zaire) and would have done well for us.

Definitely possible we beat Clemson with Golson

But I've been damn impressed by how both Zaire and Kizer have stepped to the plate this season

 

[FightingIrish44]

Do you even bother to try to and verify anything, before posting your BS?
(Zaire was 1/3 for Red-Zone TDs against....so you're whole post is just full of sh*t)

Zaire was 7/13 on Red-Zone TD's (54%)
Kizer was very similar (57%)

However, the only games where the offense under Kizer was above 50% for Red-Zone TDs was UMass (not something I really count), Wake Forest (meh), and Pittsburgh (actually pretty impressive)

Additionally, the offense has 7 Red-Zone Turnovers under Kizer.....and 0 under Zaire

The Red-Zone offense under Kizer has left a lot to be desired

Your stats are deeply flawed. First, Kizer has played much more than Zaire. About 10 games to 3. So obviously there will be more turnovers under Kizer. Second, you're attributing turnovers, a team statistic, to one guy. I don't know how many of those turnovers were on Kizer, but he is not in the least bit respsonsible for Fuller fumbling against Clemson or whoever fumbled against BC.

He's also only one guy. So you can't attribute the team failures in the redzone unless he makes a horrible mistake. Its a team game.

I feel like you're reaching here.

 

[TheDecker]

Your stats are deeply flawed. First, Kizer has played much more than Zaire. About 10 games to 3. So obviously there will be more turnovers under Kizer. Second, you're attributing turnovers, a team statistic, to one guy. I don't know how many of those turnovers were on Kizer, but he is not in the least bit respsonsible for Fuller fumbling against Clemson or whoever fumbled against BC.

He's also only one guy. So you can't attribute the team failures in the redzone unless he makes a horrible mistake. Its a team game.

I feel like you're reaching here.

You're wrong, but you're on the right track

Obviously raw production stats can't be directly compared because of the volume difference between Kizer and Zaire that you point out

That being said, rates and trends can be compared

The offers me under Kizer was averaging .75 red zone tune overs per game
(That's a lot)
While the offense under Zaire was averaging 0 red zone turnovers per game
(Obviously very good)

Beyond that, while Kizer didn't personally turn the ball over himself in all of those errors, even the plays that were turned over by others were effected by Kizer (instead of Zaire). Think about the difference in play calling, formations, personnel, aligns of the defense, etc.

Point out the differences and serious impacts of Zaire v. Kizer in an area as critical as this is in no way a reach, at all

 

[TheDecker]

Kizer has done some phenomenal things for ND, he'll continue to improve, and do even more phenomenal things for ND

However, the entire picture needs to be considered when comparing Zaire to Kizer and Thais just assuming Kizer (or Ziare) are simply going to walk into a starting position without going through a serious, open, QB competiton this spring and fall are simply FOOLISH

The best player will show he should start in practice, camp, spring game, summer workouts, and practice again

Because there isn't anything close to a 100% decision based on their on field play so far

 

[shooter1977]

There would be no shortage of QBs or RBs that would have had success with our offensive line this season. I think Wimbush could have gone 8-2 or better as well. Kizer did well filling in, but to say it's his job next fall is short sighted.