Anybody consider the fact that ND isn't handicapped by their academics as much as fans like to believe?

[chaseball]

There's this narrative out there that anytime ND gets blown out by a superior team, is behind strategically on some policy other programs are capitalizing on, or loses out on a recruit, a transfer, a coach, etc. that ND is missing out because of their academic restrictions/requirements (or some other self handicap), this message/narrative basically absolves ND of responsibility when other programs are beating them.

Is it possible that ND is just getting beaten because of their own incompetence? ND recruits/offers as many of the top 100 as the other schools out there, they are just getting out-budgeted or out-strategized or just not making as compelling a case as the other programs out there when it comes to attracting the game's best talent right now.

 

[Golson5]

There's this narrative out there that anytime ND gets blown out by a superior team, is behind strategically on some policy other programs are capitalizing on, or loses out on a recruit, a transfer, a coach, etc. that ND is missing out because of their academic restrictions/requirements (or some other self handicap), this message/narrative basically absolves ND of responsibility when other programs are beating them.

Is it possible that ND is just getting beaten because of their own incompetence? ND recruits/offers as many of the top 100 as the other schools out there, they are just getting out-budgeted or out-strategized or just not making as compelling a case as the other programs out there when it comes to attracting the game's best talent.

I dont think there is any narrative out there that because of academics we are behind strategically or some policy. Also no narrative out there we are missing on coaches because of academics. Or transfers. I think that stuff is more your narrative than reality

The fact is we simply cant recruit as many players as certain schools and actually going to class is required at Notre Dame where other places it is not.

Our previous coach used that as a crutch but I dont see our current one doing so.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

I dont think there is any narrative out there that because of academics we are behind strategically or some policy. Also no narrative out there we are missing on coaches because of academics. Or transfers. I think that stuff is more your narrative than reality

The fact is we simply cant recruit as many players as certain schools and actually going to class is required at Notre Dame where other places it is not.

Our previous coach used that as a crutch but I dont see our current one doing so.

It’s not that we won’t let them in. It’s that some don’t want to work hard. That’s a fact. Path of least resistance is not at ND.

 

[Golson5]

It’s not that we won’t let them in. It’s that some don’t want to work hard. That’s a fact. Path of least resistance is not at ND.

There are absolutely some that cant qualify. We also require 2 years of language where others do not. This has been a factor a few times in recruiting

 

[BGI User 756]

There's this narrative out there that anytime ND gets blown out by a superior team, is behind strategically on some policy other programs are capitalizing on, or loses out on a recruit, a transfer, a coach, etc. that ND is missing out because of their academic restrictions/requirements (or some other self handicap), this message/narrative basically absolves ND of responsibility when other programs are beating them.

Is it possible that ND is just getting beaten because of their own incompetence? ND recruits/offers as many of the top 100 as the other schools out there, they are just getting out-budgeted or out-strategized or just not making as compelling a case as the other programs out there when it comes to attracting the game's best talent right now.

Reverting to previously used narratives I see

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

I can see the argument being used both ways. The problem there is no data (that I know of) stating these are the 4 and 5 star guys ND would have offered if they qualified. And even if ND could, can we safely assume that ND would be getting those guys? There's lots of factors that affect recruiting: exposure, coaches, location, NIL, parents, academic standards, etc.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

There are absolutely some that cant qualify. We also require 2 years of language where others do not. This has been a factor a few times in recruiting

Some. We require a lot that isn’t fun for all.

 

[BGI User 756]

Some. We require a lot that isn’t fun for all.

Hartman to Alabama …

 

[Ndapolis1]

There's this narrative out there that anytime ND gets blown out by a superior team, is behind strategically on some policy other programs are capitalizing on, or loses out on a recruit, a transfer, a coach, etc. that ND is missing out because of their academic restrictions/requirements (or some other self handicap), this message/narrative basically absolves ND of responsibility when other programs are beating them.

Is it possible that ND is just getting beaten because of their own incompetence? ND recruits/offers as many of the top 100 as the other schools out there, they are just getting out-budgeted or out-strategized or just not making as compelling a case as the other programs out there when it comes to attracting the game's best talent right now.

And more nonsense

 

[NDinNJ]

It’s not that we won’t let them in. It’s that some don’t want to work hard. That’s a fact. Path of least resistance is not at ND.

Well then someone needs to get the point across that only 1.6% of college football players actually make it to the NFL

What percentage of college football players make it to the NFL?

Every young football player's dream is to make it to the NFL. It's the pinnacle of the sporting world and is a billion-dollar organization.

www.sportskeeda.com

 

[BGI User 756]

Well then someone needs to get the point across that only 1.6% of college football players actually make it to the NFL

What percentage of college football players make it to the NFL?

Every young football player's dream is to make it to the NFL. It's the pinnacle of the sporting world and is a billion-dollar organization.

www.sportskeeda.com

Boom. And of those 1.6%, a good amount go bankrupt after 5 years partly because they are unaware of how to invest their monies

 

[Golson5]

Well then someone needs to get the point across that only 1.6% of college football players actually make it to the NFL

What percentage of college football players make it to the NFL?

Every young football player's dream is to make it to the NFL. It's the pinnacle of the sporting world and is a billion-dollar organization.

www.sportskeeda.com

What's the percentage of 4 and 5 stars because that's the ones we are recruiting. The 0, 1 and 2 stars make up a lot but that isn't the players we go after

 

[d1042]

old ‘myth’ from pre 70’s era. It is really not a factor anymore, at least in truth; nowadays it is a fan base crutch or an excuse.
That said it is other disadvantages that are more meaningful handicaps; not using under table or behind the scene perks to the extent of the blatant violators: money, gifts, promises etc. That is the real ‘holdback’ for ND these days. These reluctancies are the new disadvantage.

 

[burmafrd1943]

anyone who thinks its NOT a factor with the divas is a moron.

Now outside of them, it is a fact that a fair number of 5 stars academically can not make it at Notre Dame.
FACT.

So yes our academic standards and the fact that you actually have to go to class and do well is indeed a factor with quite a few of the 5 stars.

Now how many of them the coaching staff actually WANTS is of course unknown. any HC at Notre Dame with a brain at all understands all of this and the do not target those that clearly will not make it here academically.

The borderline ones? depends I guess.

And once again anyone thinking that the pampered and petted high school five stars are not thinking about making it to the NFL above everything else in their life is also a moron.

and Notre Dame is not the path of least resistance to that goal.

 

[sjb75]

There's this narrative out there that anytime ND gets blown out by a superior team, is behind strategically on some policy other programs are capitalizing on, or loses out on a recruit, a transfer, a coach, etc. that ND is missing out because of their academic restrictions/requirements (or some other self handicap), this message/narrative basically absolves ND of responsibility when other programs are beating them.

Is it possible that ND is just getting beaten because of their own incompetence? ND recruits/offers as many of the top 100 as the other schools out there, they are just getting out-budgeted or out-strategized or just not making as compelling a case as the other programs out there when it comes to attracting the game's best talent right now.

Another garbage thread from a garbage poster.

 

[BGI User 756]

old ‘myth’ from pre 70’s era. It is really not a factor anymore, at least in truth; nowadays it is a fan base crutch or an excuse.
That said it is other disadvantages that are more meaningful handicaps; not using under table or behind the scene perks to the extent of the blatant violators: money, gifts, promises etc. That is the real ‘holdback’ for ND these days. These reluctancies are the new disadvantage.

It’s not an old myth, it’s still an obstacle. You can argue the severity of such, and you already mentioned the money items as larger issues. Opposing coaches absolutely negative recruit ND players about the “requirements of ND” and how they don’t have to such at their schools

 

[Telx1]

I believe the two year language requirement, and math level requirement, and gpa eliminate a relatively small percentage of the top recruits. For those fixated solely on a path to the NFL, our degree offerings and class requirements are negatives in their decision making; and those recognizing the import of being prepared for a post NFL career, these are positives. But recruits make decisions on a whole variety of considerations in addition to these, and ND does a very good job of getting their share of talented players. But we need to elevate this from very good to outstanding to compete in this nIL world, and that requires recruiting warriors, and I think freeman and his newly configured staff are exactly that.

 

[Golson5]

Another garbage thread from a garbage poster.

Anything that isn't overly positive is garbage to you

 

[sjb75]

Anything that isn't overly positive is garbage to you

The thread is garbage. The poster's regurgitated narratives are garbage.

 

[sjb75]

It’s not an old myth, it’s still an obstacle. You can argue the severity of such, and you already mentioned the money items as larger issues. Opposing coaches absolutely negative recruit ND players about the “requirements of ND” and how they don’t have to such at their schools

Of course it's an obstacle, and not to mention many elite players desire the easiest path to the NFL, and simply focus on football. That isn't happening at Notre Dame.

And the NIL factor, offering and paying players, up front, large sums to sign, will never happen at Notre Dame.

 

[Golson5]

The thread is garbage. The poster's regurgitated narratives are garbage.

Its about as annoying and garbage as you being overly positive about every single thing. You two are more similar than different. Just from opposite sides

 

[sjb75]

Its about as annoying and garbage as you being overly positive about every single thing. You two are more similar than different. Just from opposite sides

Thank God we have you. You certainly have every correct answer to anything and everything Notre Dame Football, and you have no problems telling anyone and everyone they are full of shit unless they agree with you. Again, Thank God you're here.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Its about as annoying and garbage as you being overly positive about every single thing. You two are more similar than different. Just from opposite sides

Like fascists and communists. They just keep ruining everything for everyone else.

 

[sjb75]

Like fascists and communists. They just keep ruining everything for everyone else.

Irish Beer, Thank you.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Irish Beer, Thank you.

Thanks Savvy

 

[sjb75]

Thanks Savvy

You're about due for another handle.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

You're about due for another handle.

You’re Sassy

 

[Golson5]

Thank God we have you. You certainly have every correct answer to anything and everything Notre Dame Football, and you have no problems telling anyone and everyone they are full of shit unless they agree with you. Again, Thank God you're here.

Nope. Because I didn't agree with him. But it's not garbage to start a thread that people will talk about. I say my opinions and some are positive and some are negative.

You're the same no matter what. Positive sunshine rainbows pom pom waving.

It's just as annoying as chase being always negative. You two are the same.

 

[d1042]

the OP states ‘not as much’ in the argument and arguably, that seems more true than not true. Athletes at ND are not regular students; they get perks, concessions and advantages that the regular student does not enjoy. No, not like the Bama’s, but special treatments nonetheless.

 

[Ndapolis1]

Nope. Because I didn't agree with him. But it's not garbage to start a thread that people will talk about. I say my opinions and some are positive and some are negative.

You're the same no matter what. Positive sunshine rainbows pom pom waving.

It's just as annoying as chase being always negative. You two are the same.

CNN and fox do the same, it's garbage benefits no one

 

[Ndapolis1]

Nope. Because I didn't agree with him. But it's not garbage to start a thread that people will talk about. I say my opinions and some are positive and some are negative.

You're the same no matter what. Positive sunshine rainbows pom pom waving.

It's just as annoying as chase being always negative. You two are the same.

I dig the positive vibes brother

 

[Ndapolis1]

I dig the positive vibes brother

That's part of why I pull for Freeman and company

 

[BGI User 756]

Like fascists and communists. They just keep ruining everything for everyone else.

Lol, what about the socialists and the “Dems”??

 

[BGI User 756]

the OP states ‘not as much’ in the argument and arguably, that seems more true than not true. Athletes at ND are not regular students; they get perks, concessions and advantages that the regular student does not enjoy. No, not like the Bama’s, but special treatments nonetheless.

They do. A lot but they don’t get the “don’t need to attend class or turn in work” concessions

 

[HDK]

It’s not an old myth, it’s still an obstacle. You can argue the severity of such, and you already mentioned the money items as larger issues. Opposing coaches absolutely negative recruit ND players about the “requirements of ND” and how they don’t have to such at their schools

I'd agree with 756 on this subject. ND was easier to get into before the '70s. A lot of people pointed to Holtz's troubles late in his career at ND due to the ratcheting up of admission standards in the early '90s.

ND has evolved in its own slow way. When I was a kid, you simply never heard of a redshirt at Notre Dame. Ever. Then they started to be allowed if a player lost a season to injury or were legitimate grad students. Now they redshirt guys left and right.

They used to not allow early admissions. Now you have a bunch of freshmen every year who are getting a head start on their academics. On a related note, back in my day, summer school was much more limited. Now, it seems like most football players stay on campus year-round and are able to pick up a couple of classes each summer.

Despite ND's requirements, the academic difference between football players and the rest of the student body is probably wider today than it has ever been. That doesn't mean ND is making it much easier for football players; it means the university is far more selective in its general admissions process while still being willing to take in athletes who wouldn't be able to get in otherwise.

 

[NDinNJ]

What's the percentage of 4 and 5 stars because that's the ones we are recruiting. The 0, 1 and 2 stars make up a lot but that isn't the players we go after

"Coming out of high school, a 5-star recruit thus has a 39 percent chance of "sticking" in the league. Three of every five will not."
With 4-Star recruits the percentage is probably far less

What's the Success Rate for 5-Star Recruits Reaching the NFL?

Since the recruiting class of 2002—a group so old it includes Auburn offensive coordinator Rhett Lashlee—Rivals.com has bestowed the 5-star rating on 353 prospects, not including classes that have yet to arrive at college...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

 

[Golson5]

"Coming out of high school, a 5-star recruit thus has a 39 percent chance of "sticking" in the league. Three of every five will not."
With 4-Star recruits the percentage is probably far less

What's the Success Rate for 5-Star Recruits Reaching the NFL?

Since the recruiting class of 2002—a group so old it includes Auburn offensive coordinator Rhett Lashlee—Rivals.com has bestowed the 5-star rating on 353 prospects, not including classes that have yet to arrive at college...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

Huge difference between that 1.6 number

 

[NDinNJ]

Huge difference between that 1.6 number

Yea and how many 5 stars are there per recruiting cycle? 30-50?

 

[d1042]

Firstly, when did having morals, principles, ethics, social conscience and responsibility become a handicap?
It should be the first priorities, even when one must go against self.

 

[d1042]

as for 5* impact in college, and lets face it as CF fans that s/b the data considered, all the metrics come down to a simple observation: Winning. Who is winning and who are the commitments? Occam’s Razor.