ADVERTISEMENT

Alleged first hand account of Butler incident:

cgvr

I've posted how many times?
Jun 25, 2010
8,025
1,299
113
From TOS:

"I had posted details on this on Saturday morning as my daughter's roommates were the ones who witnessed/were involved in the Butler altercation and this is their account of what happened.

In a nutshell, the witness accounts from these girls are not consistent with the police report that was filed on Friday night/Saturday morning. They did not have the presence of mind to take any video given how rapidly it all unraveled.

Their account is that Butler and his girlfriend are leaving the ‘Backer around 1230am as these 3 senior female students are approaching the bar. These 3 seniors all have a friendship with Butler that goes back to Freshman year. One of the girls calls out to Butler using a nickname they had for him (Poodle), Butler returns the greeting using the nickname he had for her (Noodle) (BTW, I'm not making this stuff up). Butlers girlfriend (not a ND student) takes exception to the exchange perhaps feeling like the student is being too familiar - she gets in the senior's face, pushes her to the ground and kicks her repeatedly in the head and face. Butler intervenes since the person his girlfriend is assaulting is his long-time close friend. Butler grabs his girlfriend and tosses her away from the girl who is being assaulted. At this point, the police approach Butler from behind and attempt to "break it up", the two remaining female students (the third is now on the ground concussed) stated that it was clear that Butler did not know it was the police who were grabbing him from behind and that he then engaged in a struggle with the police officer. At this point, the two witnesses are more focused on their injured friend laying on the ground than they are on the struggle between Butler and the police so their account of the specifics of things like Butler punching the officer, the tasing of Butler, Butler's ripping off the duty belt etc never came up which is clearly a problem for Butler.

What they did say though was that they tried to provide their account at the scene and were told by the police to leave the scene immediately. They also stated that the police showed no interest in detaining Butler's girlfriend for the assault who, shockingly, was still there at the scene. So the report by the police that the women had left the scene was inaccurate. The girl who had been assaulted was taken to St. Liam's where she was diagnosed with a concussion and facial bruising. They then went to the SBPD to provide a statement on what happened and were turned away being told to come back Monday when the detective was on duty. They summed it up by saying, Butler got drawn into the situation because of his girlfriend’s out of control behavior, Butler tries to help and winds up becoming the focus of the police while the assailant is never questioned and the assaulted party is left to fend for herself. As you can imagine, when the police report came out, they were beside themselves.

Personally, I was surprised that St. Liam's didn't call the police to report what had happened when the student came in with her injuries/concussion. (she wound up in the ER Sunday due to lingering concussion symptoms like nausea etc). I'm also shocked that the police showed no interest in pressing charges against the woman who assaulted the ND student and shocked that they refused to take statements from the witnesses which clearly would have contradicted the police report and potentially led to Butler being given the benefit of the doubt. Also, having met Butler on several occasions and having heard accounts of him through my daughter and her friends - Butler is a genuinely nice person who, at best was in the wrong place at the wrong time or, at worst, had a momentary lapse in judgment that could haunt him for a long time. The whole situation is a complete shame and is being made worse by some questionable practices/decisions by the officers at the scene."
 
I wonder if there were witnesses who were not involved in the incident? If so, no cell phone video of any kind? No security footage outside the bar? The police and the school need to get this right. I'm not willing to believe anything until it because official public record. The Duke incident should have taught us that, if anything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rockne's Rambler
Perhaps more importantly, did the eyewitnesses referenced in the report persue the issue and file a report with their version with the police/DA's office?
 
I wonder if there were witnesses who were not involved in the incident? If so, no cell phone video of any kind? No security footage outside the bar? The police and the school need to get this right. I'm not willing to believe anything until it because official public record. The Duke incident should have taught us that, if anything.
Look at the cops in the 2006 Duke lacrosse case- complete scumbags that lied. A lot of policemen don't care who it is, they just want a conviction.
 
This all sounds way to far fetched for me. It also doesn't excuse the behavior. It sounds like a heat of the moment alcohol induced situation no matter what facts you believe. Even if Butler was grabbed from behind it sounds like he went nutso. His g/f appears extremely violent. Sorry but I am not buying this version of the story.
 
This all sounds way to far fetched for me. It also doesn't excuse the behavior. It sounds like a heat of the moment alcohol induced situation no matter what facts you believe. Even if Butler was grabbed from behind it sounds like he went nutso. His g/f appears extremely violent. Sorry but I am not buying this version of the story.

Hoopsstar12 - does the 12 stand for your age ? First of all the OP scenario sounds extremely plausible and if true Butler will have a decent defense and chance to win. It also helps explain why Butler pleaded "Not Guilty".
 
Hoopsstar12 - does the 12 stand for your age ? First of all the OP scenario sounds extremely plausible and if true Butler will have a decent defense and chance to win. It also helps explain why Butler pleaded "Not Guilty".

You do not plead guilty even If you are. You will have no chance at all if you do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pennick44
the history of the two arresting officers is not squeeky clean neither, so i am not certain that their accounts would be totally forthright.

I had read this version also. The officers who transported Butler to the station, did say he memtioned he did not know who grabbed him, and that alcohol was a factor in his reaction/behavior. During the ride he apologized to them. But the track record of the 2 officers also indicates they can be very aggresive.

Clearly this was not an action pre-meditated nor even sought out by Butler, but once two close to him persons were in an altercation, he clearly could not be expected to stand by eating popcorn!
He reacted, as would most.

I am surprised at the charges, and I expect it ultimately resolves as a misdemeanor.

I wonder what charges the 2 primary combatants are facing?
 
From TOS:

"I had posted details on this on Saturday morning as my daughter's roommates were the ones who witnessed/were involved in the Butler altercation and this is their account of what happened.

In a nutshell, the witness accounts from these girls are not consistent with the police report that was filed on Friday night/Saturday morning. They did not have the presence of mind to take any video given how rapidly it all unraveled.

Their account is that Butler and his girlfriend are leaving the ‘Backer around 1230am as these 3 senior female students are approaching the bar. These 3 seniors all have a friendship with Butler that goes back to Freshman year. One of the girls calls out to Butler using a nickname they had for him (Poodle), Butler returns the greeting using the nickname he had for her (Noodle) (BTW, I'm not making this stuff up). Butlers girlfriend (not a ND student) takes exception to the exchange perhaps feeling like the student is being too familiar - she gets in the senior's face, pushes her to the ground and kicks her repeatedly in the head and face. Butler intervenes since the person his girlfriend is assaulting is his long-time close friend. Butler grabs his girlfriend and tosses her away from the girl who is being assaulted. At this point, the police approach Butler from behind and attempt to "break it up", the two remaining female students (the third is now on the ground concussed) stated that it was clear that Butler did not know it was the police who were grabbing him from behind and that he then engaged in a struggle with the police officer. At this point, the two witnesses are more focused on their injured friend laying on the ground than they are on the struggle between Butler and the police so their account of the specifics of things like Butler punching the officer, the tasing of Butler, Butler's ripping off the duty belt etc never came up which is clearly a problem for Butler.

What they did say though was that they tried to provide their account at the scene and were told by the police to leave the scene immediately. They also stated that the police showed no interest in detaining Butler's girlfriend for the assault who, shockingly, was still there at the scene. So the report by the police that the women had left the scene was inaccurate. The girl who had been assaulted was taken to St. Liam's where she was diagnosed with a concussion and facial bruising. They then went to the SBPD to provide a statement on what happened and were turned away being told to come back Monday when the detective was on duty. They summed it up by saying, Butler got drawn into the situation because of his girlfriend’s out of control behavior, Butler tries to help and winds up becoming the focus of the police while the assailant is never questioned and the assaulted party is left to fend for herself. As you can imagine, when the police report came out, they were beside themselves.

Personally, I was surprised that St. Liam's didn't call the police to report what had happened when the student came in with her injuries/concussion. (she wound up in the ER Sunday due to lingering concussion symptoms like nausea etc). I'm also shocked that the police showed no interest in pressing charges against the woman who assaulted the ND student and shocked that they refused to take statements from the witnesses which clearly would have contradicted the police report and potentially led to Butler being given the benefit of the doubt. Also, having met Butler on several occasions and having heard accounts of him through my daughter and her friends - Butler is a genuinely nice person who, at best was in the wrong place at the wrong time or, at worst, had a momentary lapse in judgment that could haunt him for a long time. The whole situation is a complete shame and is being made worse by some questionable practices/decisions by the officers at the scene."
Wow

There has to be someway to verify this
 
Last edited:
So I am 12 years old because I doubt the validity of this story? When you go out in public and drink you take a risk as a football player. Alcohol alters your decision making. Overall the behavior of Butler and his girlfriend were extreme. Trusting everything written on a message board isn't a wise thing either. Butler will have his day in court. I do believe in due process.
 
hoops:

did you read the past records of the arresting officers? recent history?
and, would you have just stood idly by and watched the fight between 2 friends?
 
just off reports of stories of recent transgressions:

what we have seen in the recent years is there is a strained relationship between the SBPD and local authorities and the ND athletics. Whether real or just percieved, perception can operate as reality.

Contrast this with the FSU relationship with the Tallahassee Police Dept.

Now there has to be something between adversarial and partners in crime. Perhaps there needs to be a way to create an 'ownership/partnership towards ND university' by the SBPD and a more trusting cooperative attitude by the university population in general and athletes in particular.

Maybe there are things already in place to do this? if so maybe some tweeking is necessary?
 
Did the police officers properly identify themselves as police officers before engaging with Butler?
 
well seems DB was up to his elbows in a cat fight (and slightly inebriated) so like in a game you really don't hear the crowd. But if grabbed from behind, he would have reacted like anyone else in a brawl.

Years ago, Alonzo Morning (Knicks) got in a brawl and there is a famous photo of VanGundy wrapped around Alonzo's leg trying to intervene; AM Was not even aware of him.

 
Last edited:
Wow, if true that's too bad. Hopefully it can eventually be reduced down to a misdemeanor, and he won't have to be booted from school.
 
Hoopsstar12 - does the 12 stand for your age ? First of all the OP scenario sounds extremely plausible and if true Butler will have a decent defense and chance to win. It also helps explain why Butler pleaded "Not Guilty".

Extremely plausible that he tackled and fought with a cop without knowing it was a cop? Yeah.
 
Extremely plausible that he tackled and fought with a cop without knowing it was a cop? Yeah.

The account above says he was gabbed from "behind" - so yes at first he had no idea it was a cop.

How hard is that to understand ?

Now - once he knew and how far it escalated will be sorted out in court.
He pleaded "Not Guilty" for a reason. He feels he has a case too win.

We will see how this plays out in court and whether eyewitness accounts are strong enough to help vindicate him.
 
yep

what was the prosecutor thinking? given the 2 officers history and eye witness disparities, and the age of the kid! If this was a first time problem then ?'s need to be asked.
 
This gets more confusing by the day. I think it's probably best for everyone to put their personal agendas and feelings aside and let this all play out completely. It seems this story changes every new day.
 
well, I smelled something amiss on this early on; no reason just sensed something. In the other threads I had some heated to ugly e changes (posters that perssistantly resort to that when argument fails them); we do not know how this plays out but I hope for the best for DB and those calling for his head are ashamed.
 
Apparently some identified witnesses have talked to the media as well - similar account.

http://www.ndinsider.com/football/e...cle_1b5b211a-6a56-11e6-8cb7-3b5aa684cfe0.html

There are differences though. Like this part:

Selina Bell, the fiancée of Irish wide receiver Torii Hunter Jr., who was at the bar that night, said she was eyewitness to the altercation. She described Butler's involvement differently.

“I don’t know who they’re trying to reference him hitting or pushing, because he didn’t do that to anyone. But he was holding his girlfriend and protecting her," Bell said in a phone interview on Wednesday night. "He 100 percent never hit her, pulled her, pushed her, grabbed her forcefully at all.”

Bailey and Bell would not comment on what touched off the fight, or whether Bailey was one of the women involved in the alercation.
 
but, the more the descriptions vary the less reliable the account. The less reliable the accounts are the more difficult it is to say 'beyond reasonable doubt' or even any doubt. Certainly the credibility of the officers, off their priors, cannot be beyond question.

This was a typical skirmish among young persons who had a bit to drink; best solution, reprimand everyone and everyone apologize and go their separate ways.

These are common events in most big metro areas; the SBPD is acting a bit gestapIsh!

Why is that one guy still on the force?
 
There are differences though. Like this part:

Selina Bell, the fiancée of Irish wide receiver Torii Hunter Jr., who was at the bar that night, said she was eyewitness to the altercation. She described Butler's involvement differently.

“I don’t know who they’re trying to reference him hitting or pushing, because he didn’t do that to anyone. But he was holding his girlfriend and protecting her," Bell said in a phone interview on Wednesday night. "He 100 percent never hit her, pulled her, pushed her, grabbed her forcefully at all.”

Bailey and Bell would not comment on what touched off the fight, or whether Bailey was one of the women involved in the alercation.

Absolutely. In this version, Butler was an angel and did nothing whatsoever to attract the attention of the officers.

I can believe a grabbed from behind story. I have a harder time believing a "grabbed from behind while he was being a perfect angel protecting his girlfriend" story that is unwilling to describe why he's protecting her. It gives the appearance they''re telling half the truth in an effort to protect everyone involved.
 
Absolutely. In this version, Butler was an angel and did nothing whatsoever to attract the attention of the officers.

I can believe a grabbed from behind story. I have a harder time believing a "grabbed from behind while he was being a perfect angel protecting his girlfriend" story that is unwilling to describe why he's protecting her. It gives the appearance they''re telling half the truth in an effort to protect everyone involved.

Exactly. So I'd be inclined to believe the OP's eyewitness story (neutral parties, sounds more credible) over the accounts from Butler's girlfriend and Hunter's fiancee.
 
yep

what was the prosecutor thinking? given the 2 officers history and eye witness disparities, and the age of the kid! If this was a first time problem then ?'s need to be asked.

You have a ND football player involved - maybe the prosecutor has a little bit of an "ego" ? thinking I can really make a name for myself by nailing an ND football player ? Who knows - maybe he is a great guy thinking he is just doing his job the correct way ?

But, the Officers past history of being over the top - can't be good

And if witnesses accounts verify what was said in this latest article then SBPD will be staring at another lawsuit and Butler will probably and hopefully be exonerated.
 
but, the more the descriptions vary the less reliable the account. The less reliable the accounts are the more difficult it is to say 'beyond reasonable doubt' or even any doubt. Certainly the credibility of the officers, off their priors, cannot be beyond question.

This was a typical skirmish among young persons who had a bit to drink; best solution, reprimand everyone and everyone apologize and go their separate ways.

These are common events in most big metro areas; the SBPD is acting a bit gestapo!

Why is that one guy still on the force?

Perse, its a fair question.

I once worked on a civil rights case against a cop that chased two kids with a bb gun into their house and shot their German Shepherd in the process. He had such a reckless reputation that the dispatcher referred to him as "Wyatt Erp" on the radio, and many of his fellow cops didn't respect him. He had been involved in a bunch of documented incident that should have had him fired earlier. And eventually he was fired for the incident I worked on, but it took a long time and the local authorities had the wagons circled tightly.

That said, Kneppler was exonerated internally of any wrong doing in his last (bleeding brain guy) excessive force complaint.
 
Perse, its a fair question.

I once worked on a civil rights case against a cop that chased two kids with a bb gun into their house and shot their German Shepherd in the process. He had such a reckless reputation that the dispatcher referred to him as "Wyatt Erp" on the radio, and many of his fellow cops didn't respect him. He had been involved in a bunch of documented incident that should have had him fired earlier. And eventually he was fired for the incident I worked on, but it took a long time and the local authorities had the wagons circled tightly.

That said, Kneppler was exonerated internally of any wrong doing in his last (bleeding brain guy) excessive force complaint.
 
The account above says he was gabbed from "behind" - so yes at first he had no idea it was a cop.

How hard is that to understand ?

Now - once he knew and how far it escalated will be sorted out in court.
He pleaded "Not Guilty" for a reason. He feels he has a case too win.

We will see how this plays out in court and whether eyewitness accounts are strong enough to help vindicate him.

It should have taken about three seconds to realize he was in deep shit, drunk or not.
 
well, all the above and the dicrepanciess in the witness accounts: all that makes this a very questionable prosecution decision.

I expect there will be a presser, 'In light of ...blah blah ..." the charges are being changed to misdemeanor or dropped entirely!

Can you imagine what Sharpton would do in this one given the officers involved? This officer should want this resolved very quietly.

DB should be back in class, immediately.
 
Perse my man. How do you know that the SBPD acted gestapish? You weren't there nor was anyone on this board. In fact, you have been slanting your opinions towards the arrested from the start. Didn't we agree to put personal agendas aside and let this play out? All these witnesses and no video phones. Especially when the police are involved. That's when college age students shine. Exposing the police. Just because there is a history with one of these officers doesn't mean they did not act professionally in this case. None of us were even near the joint yet we all have become legal experts and eye witnesses in speculation in what probably happened.
 
but, I do caveat them by admitting I had little knowledge that is not 'board banter'
and
I got this feeling from getgo; if you follow this board, generally I am more along lines with the dicipline side.

And these kind of goings on are common place on weekends, in most cities, so seems this one was out of control from the start. There was a foul aroma. Too many ?'s so benefit of doubt go to who?
 
IMO, the benefit of the doubt goes to the police until facts or video shows otherwise. Then, these officers need to be held accountable to the max. Right now, all the general public has is a mish mash of info. In our desire to solve this case, we are all passing judgement on an incident that none of us even witnessed. Isn't anyone at least irritated that the girl kicking the other girl in the head wasn't arrested? She appears to be ground zero for this incident if any of the witness accounts are correct. What a mess.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT