i don’t buy it, Texas A&M is a public school, a state institution.
No way a public institution pays that kind of money !
The taxpayers would go ballistic !
$13 million NIL deal
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No way a public institution pays that kind of money !
The taxpayers would go ballistic !
Irish, at some point, prudent minds have to step back and ask, why are we getting involved in a financial arms race over an unproven, and probably unstable 18 year old kid who just might take the money and run.
I was meeting with a client when two BIG schools called him and asked him to fund two separate players to the tune of low six figures. His responses were swift and precise, NO !
While the money wasn’t an issue, he found the concept and principle to be objectionable.
How long before others come to the same conclusion ?
I was meeting with a client when two BIG schools called him and asked him to fund two separate players to the tune of low six figures. His responses were swift and precise, NO !
While the money wasn’t an issue, he found the concept and principle to be objectionable.
How long before others come to the same conclusion ?
The rules state they are supposed to be independent of schools, but the reality is most NIL deals are tied to the schools.
I don't know man...
it's still a bullshit circus act
“The one thing that drives me crazy is when people try to claim that these athletes are being greedy,” Caspino told On3. “That is really bothersome. That’s someone who doesn’t really understand what’s going on here and doesn’t understand history. It’s about 60, 70 years of the NCAA and academic institutions making millions of dollars off these kids.
Stop right there Mr. Snazzy lawyer Esquire pants guy.
One could certainly litigate the intention of said institution with the money they make but giving the school's the benefit of doubt here...It's not like the athlete's were slaves part II. Not even close.
First of all that lady from CA....who is not mentally sound...sealed the fate of this but in no way did she envision the size of this.
Perhaps an extra few thousand dollars or the like but I GUARANTEE she didn't see 6, 7 and now 8 figures coming. No way in hell.
Secondly and back to the schools.....
Using our beloved how much is a 4 year degree worth? The degree, tuition, R&B, lunches, dinners, breakfasts, all the apparel and footwear they want/need...
Let's not forget too there is slush money given to the players to help get family on campus...some of which is between 1k-6k per month
Then...
the facilities, the coaching, the exposure, the teammates and their success all adds value to your possible draft status.
Oh and what's this?
The school couldn't be anymore rewarding giving out all things listed above in exchange for services of an activity enjoyed by the participants.
If the players got nothing or could get nothing...in other words no professional football then ok...they still get possibly 350k-450k in goods and services (education) from the school...but possibly some pay then. Possibly.
But the schools want to have a top shelf environment to lure top shelf recruits...the better they can do the possibilities of a better pro future exist.
But hey...none of that is really true the poor old players is so hard on them to do so much taxing work for nothing.
W T F E to the ambulance chaser
I always assume the reported number is much higher than the actual pay.
There is so much money getting burnt on stupid ideas or do nothing people that over-sponsoring an athlete doesn't really faze me.
You hit upon what I perceive as a huge problem with NIL as it exists today: the lack of a uniform set of rules that apply to all schools, so that there is a level playing field and some certainty as to what is allowed and what is not. Instead, there is a minefield of different, and sometimes inconsistent, rules that apply to NIL. Some states have NIL legislation; some do not. Some conferences have NIL rules; some do not. Some schools have NIL rules; some do not. (In case you are wondering, ND has a set of NIL "guidelines" in place: https://und.com/wp-content/uploads/...L-GUIDELINES-FOR-STUDENTS-FINAL-5.13.22-1.pdf)
As I understand, currently 32 states have NIL laws in place, most of them modeled after California's Fair Pay To Play Act, which was the NIL first statute passed. (The California law wasn't supposed to be effective until 1/1/2023, but Newsom later moved the effective date up to 9/1/2021.) While there is some commonality between the state NIL laws, not all of them are the same. And then there is the curious situation in Alabama; it originally passed an NIL law in April 2021, but then rescinded that law in February 2022. Ostensibly the rescission of the Alabama law came about because of the SCOTUS decision in the Alston case, and Alabama politicians didn't want to put Alabama schools at a "disadvantage" with more restrictive rules. My take: after it became clear the NCAA won't police NIL, the good old boys in Tuscaloosa wanted to ensure Nick Saban has a free hand to do whatever the hell he wants with NIL.
Layered upon all of that, the NCAA adopted an "interim" NIL policy in June 2021. According to the NCAA press release that accompanied the announcement of the interim policy, "[t]he temporary policy will remain in place until federal legislation or new NCAA rules are adopted. With the NIL interim policy, schools and conferences may choose to adopt their own additional policies." Well guess what; there is still no federal legislation or a set of permanent NCAA rules. I believe the NCAA's reticence to step in and implement a set of permanent NIL rules is the direct result of getting slapped down by SCOTUS in the Alston case. As one observer put it: "With the NCAA’s defeat in the Alston case last summer, the NCAA’s interim policy on NILs is very high level and generic as there was hesitation to implement more stringent rules that may open new antitrust claims."
If all that were not confusing enough, there are the NIL "collectives" in place at many schools, and there is a lack of certainty, and certainly no clarity, as to whether NIL laws apply at all to collectives.
In other words, NIL is all a big mess.
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I think your ire with the lawyer is misplaced; you are shooting the messenger. Like it or not, the horse is out of the barn with NIL, and there will be no turning back, especially after what SCOTUS said about it in the Alston case. The real problem here is that the NCAA has shirked its responsibility to step in and give some certainty to the NIL situation. The NCAA is gun shy after Alston, and I don't see them stepping up and doing something about NIL any time soon.
While I don't have a problem with athletes receiving NIL money, it is the imbalance that presently exists with NIL that gives me pause for concern. Will that imbalance corrupt the game?
That said, it was refreshing to see some of the comments about NIL from ND WR and early enrollee Jaden Greathouse, in the story that is posted on the main page. I took note of these comments from Jaden:
“We all had to deal with NIL and make a decision about how important that was going to be in our recruitments. That’s like one of the biggest things other schools can offer you, is money, because schools like that don’t have the image like Notre Dame does.
“So when you’re competing against a school like Notre Dame for a player, that's really all you can do, is just try to throw money in their face. But that wasn’t something that I was interested in. I think really all of us, but I’ll just speak for myself, I was really just focused on going to a school that in the long run is going to make me a better person and a better football player.”
I don't see ND ever offering the silly NIL money that is being offered to some recruits like Jaden Rashada. (To be clear, I don't criticize Rashada at all for taking the deal; he would have been stupid not to.) Instead, as part of the recruiting process I think ND needs to identify athletes like Jaden Greathouse, where the NIL deal offered to them is a secondary factor in their recruitment. With someone like Dante Moore, for example, when it became clear that his NIL package was going to be the deciding factor in his recruitment, TR should have seen the hand writing on the wall and moved on with Plan B. Ultimately we lucked out by signing Kenny Minchey and then Sam Hartman, but it could have played out much differently. I hope there are some lessons learned there for MF and TR.
The new NCAA resident is an former Massachusetts 2x Governor, a Republican, a former college athlete, married to a former college athlete and I think has several children as college athletes. He isn't jumping in the middle of this for quite awhile. NIL will be essentially unfettered for the foreseeable future. The wolves are shepherding the sheep
I don't disagree with your thoughts per se but what you're suggesting or rather hoping for is nearly impossible.
To recognize the importance of NIL to a particular player is like predicting the weather.
Using Moore as example (others have done this too) shifting gears on the 11th hour is impossible to have the foresight to take a pass on a kid.
Everyone pretty much knows my stance on this issue. I think these kids get plenty in exchange for a service. A service they in fact love to do and up to the point right before being offered NIL $ have participated for free out of sheer enjoyment.
That all said to me the hypocrisy in all this is off the charts. I've seen many posters say things like "I wouldn't want this kid if that's what's important" .....
It's pretty ridiculous IMO for fan and school for that matter to dabble in the NIL game but then say I wouldn't want them anyways if they got more or made it a priority in the first place.
If fan and school are pro NIL then go all the way with it. Otherwise why bother? The school made the decision to participate in NIL (you know what I mean) then why only dabble in it?
Does it really matter if you've decided to dance with the devil just how long the song is going to be?
The hypocrisy is ridiculously absurd. If they've decided to play in the NIL sandbox then bring the shovel and dig in. Otherwise what's the point? To hold on to some moral high ground just to say yeah but our players only get X$ amount so it's not that bad. Or rather our players still want paid if it's only XYZ$ amount then they've better personal character than a Dante Moore.
Come on!!!!
Uuuhhh...
No.
The sheep are herding the wolves at present.
It's the wild wild west. Chaos
You misunderstand me. I do not advocate passing on a kid because he is interested in NIL. Nothing wrong with that. I am saying that if it becomes apparent during the recruiting process that the NIL money is going to be the number one goal of a kid's recruitment, and the money the kid is looking at is probably off the charts, then why waste more time with the kid? Maybe you keep recruiting the kid hoping things change, but you also keep your options open and start looking at other kids. That is not passing judgment on the kid's priorities, that is merely a reality check on what ND is willing to do with NIL at this point in time. Will that change? I don't know. I expect Freeman has probably had quite a few conversations with Swarbrick about it. You say "go all the way with it," but I do not want to ever see ND sell its soul with NIL. Offering the Rashada kid $13M before he has ever played a down of football with you is absurd. But that is on UF, not him. Maybe ND needs to be a little more creative with NIL. Hard for me to say, though, because I don't know exactly what ND is doing with NIL. It hasn't been very transparent about it, at least not with the general public. I expect there are many conversations with recruits and their families about it, but we are just a bunch of dudes on a fan board throwing stuff on the walls.
And I am not down on Dante Moore. From everything I have read about him, he seems like he will end up to be a good player. It's just that it should have been apparent to Tommy Rees at some point that the NIL money DM was looking for (or maybe it was his dad, if you believe some of the stories) wasn't something ND could ever swing. I don't know when that happened, but it had to be obvious to TR at some point.
Full professionalization of big-time CFB is coming, along with what I will guess could easily end up being quite radical conference realignment. In the fairly near future. As well as a complete decoupling, I guess you could say from the NCAA. And then the NCAA's little rules, however illegal/unenforceable or not, would have no application at all.
I kind of was thinking about a 40-team super conference, and we could end up with that. With the toponymy and whatnot yet to be determined.
I kind of was thinking about a 40-team super conference, and we could end up with that. With the toponymy and whatnot yet to be determined.
I learned ND boosters need to set up a fund outside of south bend's control if they want to go big game hunting.
The problem is the university is still responsible for what the boosters do with the fund. Whether they say they know or not, as they are the benefactors of the athlete being at the university. Of course ND will always be on the end of the selective enforcement by the NCAA
I think that budget is based on what they think they need as NIL $ from entities, to capture football players, not $ TXAM is actually paying out in NIL, as the schools can’t pay out a penny
Ok...so we are clear you fully well know my stance on this. In other words I'm completely against the NIL. You understand that part, right?
I fully understood what you said. Not sure what part you missed of my post. Again...I was clear..at least I thought.
It sounds like you want your cake and eat it too? I'm not being malicious saying such but really now...you are OK with the NIL and participation thereof but only if it's kept in check? Well what exactly is that?
Echoing again the hypocrisy is off the charts and you aren't the only one. The powers that be are the biggest bunch of the hypocrites in all.
So ND is going to participate but....kinda, sorta half assed?
Alrighty then. Exactly what on earth is this? Still clinging to some moral high ground so we can say yeah we participate in NIL but only in limited ways so therefore we haven't sold our soul to the devil.
Nonsense and hypocritical bullshit. Nothing more, nothing less.
You know my feelings on NIL but if ND is going to play the game then play the damn game all the way.
They chose to dance with the devil so turn the song up and dance all the way.
I promise the decision makers having one toe in and one toe out doesn't sway anyone's opinion and it definitely doesn't give off a holier than thou persona.
If they hate it(they do) then don't participate.
(But that kills recruiting)
So they don't hate it?
Not exactly.
Can't say that. Have to accept it. But only with limits?
Hypocrisy 10 fold
I think it's a position where they are trying to remain within the guidelines of NIL.
There are rules for NIL, although nebulous and currently not being enforced. I'm sure ND is trying to follow the rules. They must participate in NIL or they will be left behind. I'm against NIL, but I don't make the rules and I also understand these kids position on getting paid and yes hundreds of thousands and millions per year is Ridiculous on top of a free college education and the perks that come with being a college athlete. However, I don't think ND is hypocritical, nor do I think people trying to understand NIL or support it or be against are completely hypocritical in their positions. Its really to new and fluid to draw a line in the sand.
Ok..but what exactly is that. For every lawyer that says this is "within the guidelines" there's two more lawyers that have a different "guideline" in mind.
My main issue specifically is with the poster(s)
( not personally ) that is taking this high horse approach like I don't want a kid if $$ is such the priority.
#1 how in the hell do you quantify such a thing. Unless a kid clearly says money is my priority it's damn impossible to weed out those type
#2 and most importantly... $$ shouldn't be a driving force but the fact remains it is becoming a priority and will continue to to get worse in years to come.
Notre Dame...just like with coaches...should never lose out on anything because of $$$
#3 as I said if ND hates the NIL, and they do, then don't participate. I'm perfectly fine with that.
However, if we're going to play in the NIL world then play all the way.
Stroud did consider staying in school and using NIL money in place of NFL
As i said in another post for every lawyer that says this is within the rules two other lawyers have a different set of parameters.
Who is right, who is wrong, who the hell knows.
The hypocrisy accusation was directed at fans who see a kid flip flop or make a decision on the highest bidder.
Their opinion is "they don't want a kid like that"
Ok....but you want a kid who still wants NIL money...just not as his priority? Good luck to quantify that and how many recruits are lost due to $$ that isn't brought up due to dolla bills being a priority.
All I'm saying is if ND is going to play the game then play the game. Within the rules...sure...but these examples we speak of aren't illegal.
P.s.
Just like if we lose a coach for more money elsewhere...there should be absolutely no excuse for that at ND.
Sure, I understand your position. You've been loud and clear on it. But your position is like wishing that we'd play in leather helmets again with the single wing. And lest you need a reminder, your position was shot down rather clearly and forcefully by SCOTUS in the Alston case. It is a brave new world out there. Maybe you need to accept it. Clinging to the idea that college football will return to the days when kids played for the love of the game and a chance for a four-year ride at a major university, while laudable, is just foolish. It ain't going to happen.
The idea that ND must "play the damn [NIL] game all the way" is equally foolish. NIL is intended to give college athletes a means to legally profit off their own name, image or likeness. It is NOT intended as an inducement or recruitment tool to entice a recruit to play for a program. In fact, it is illegal to use it for that purpose. The fact that other schools are doing so isn't a compelling argument for me for ND to jump into the swamp with them. But you are apparently OK with that? Before NIL, it was an open secret that many SEC schools were giving bags of cash to recruit big-time players. I guess you think ND should have joined in that dance? After all, if you are going to recruit big-time players, "play the damn recruiting game all the way."
As for your suggestion that my position on NIL is hypocritical, it is apparent you don't understand what hypocrisy is. Hypocrisy is pretending or suggesting to others that you believe in something that you don't actually believe in. My position is that ND should use NIL legally. There is nothing at all hypocritical about that belief. You call that taking the high moral ground. It absolutely is. And there is nothing to be ashamed about for recruiting kids ethically and legally.
As for whether it is possible to identify recruits who are in the game only for the money, I will grant you that may be a difficult task. And maybe not all kids will make that obvious up front. I am fine with going after those kids. But when it becomes obvious that a recruit won't sign an LOI to ND unless he gets a large bag of cash, I think it is time to move on from that kid, or at least start looking at other options. In the Dante Moore situation, ND put all of its eggs in one basket when it probably shouldn't have. I would have loved for ND to sign Moore, but not if it meant giving him NIL money illegally. Having said that, I acknowledge that I have no insider knowledge as to what Moore was asking for. Maybe his recruitment was on the up and up, and he simply preferred Oregon and then UCLA. That's ok. ND isn't for everyone. I have never suggested (nor do I believe) that just because a kid ends up with another school means he has some terrible character flaw. I have never called out any kid on that, and I find it unfortunate when other posters on this board ascribe all kinds of bad things to kids that end up at other schools, as happened with Peyton Bowen.
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I’m assuming they were all looking for big deals to keep them in school so they could maximize their earnings for another year before getting money from the NFL. When they couldn’t find those deals that were big enough, they went ahead and declared for the NFL.
I agree with you on most of what you wrote. You can't judge a kid because he wants a pay day especially since it's now become a part of college football.
Some of these posters need to put themselves in these kids positions. Some of these kids, not all, but some are coming from financially distressed situations, and NIL money is a way to potentially get them and their family out of dire financial circumstances. You can't blame the kids for wanting to get paid up front if it's being offered.
Instead of blaming these kids, blame the schools and the collectives that are throwing the money at them.
To be clear, I don't blame the kids. I have already said that Rashada would be foolish not to have taken the money if it was in fact offered to him. My criticism rests with the system. It is broken and NIL isn't being used the way it was intended. Nor do I believe that what is currently taking place is what SCOTUS intended with the Alston decision. NIL isn't supposed to be used like a signing bonus to lure recruits to schools in the first place; NIL is intended to allow players to capitalize or profit off their name, image or likeness once they are already at the school. But because nobody is policing things--except for schools that are self-policing--it is being used for improper purposes. Either Congress or the NCAA is going to have to step in and clean up the current mess, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. So it will continue to be the wild west.
If an 17/18/19 year old has his hand out and is demanding $$$ to sign, then he is open to blame and criticism, just as much as the schools and collectives are. It takes the athlete to make the deal, as he/she hold the final decision on where they going to matriculate. And if they old enough to pursue these financial deals, with or without consultation, they sure are old enough to accept blame and consequences for their decisions; which could affect their eligibility if they pursue an illegal deal. I see no explanation for how the Rashada kid, did NOT break the rules on his agreement to attend FL for a large NIL deal, only to have it retracted/unviable and he then intending to commit elsewhere. His deal had to be a pure quid pro quo, with pay to play up front and based on his commitment to FL. Whats surprising is his public statements about the situation....and the lack of push back about his situation from the media and other institutions..maybe that's happening behind closed doors..
It is 'broken'?, It just started! Barely a year old and it's already broken according to you, in your exaggerated, heightened rhetoric. So it's broken to you, maybe, but by any substantive measures I don't think it's broken at all. That just doesn't make any sense.
You gotta remember the NCAA and its nincompoop lawyers already tried that shit, and were totally destroyed by SCOTUS. 'Give me an argument' he said. Old boy, Mr. date-rapist. Who I've come to like, he's my favorite Supreme Court justice, I feel like if I was arguing a case before it I would go to that dude the most, and would appeal to his more relatable sensibilities. I feel like I could talk to him, and could win him over. I really mean that. You know, so long as the merits of the case were arguable in my favor. After all, we're both big sports fans. And to a certain extent I feel that way about old girl as well, from ND's law School. I feel like I could talk to her too. She's pretty prim and severe, but I know I could charm the shit out of her. And I like her, just personally. Not so much her jurisprudential tendencies and proclivities, but just the person inside. At least from what I've seen. But I'm sentimental, so....
The upshot being CFB isn't broken, and constantly making such nonsense the basis of your argument isn't going to get you anywhere. The way forward to a new rules regime, and a better, more manageable arrangement, which is presumably what you want, would be through collective bargaining. Or if at least if all you're going to do is stomp your foot in petulance, then you gotta come up with some kind of halfway compelling little mantra. Because right now you are all over the map, and flailing, repeating how it's broken to ad nauseam levels. Shrieking at the NCAA to do something when it can't.....
Not just you personally, but all you guys. In any case you can forget about pay for play ever going anywhere. If there's anything that's here to stay it's that. How could it possibly be any way else??
Another enlightened post from the board nincompoop. I never said CFB was broken. Learn to read. You are making straw man arguments, as you usually do. And I am not going to argue with you, because you are clueless.
I will admit you gave me a good laugh the notion that you could "charm the shit" out of Amy Coney Barrett. You certainly don't suffer from lack of a high opinion of yourself. But that is obvious from 99% of your posts.
Oh you're so calling me a nincompoop after I just called somebody else one? That was very clever of you. Well played....
It's true, man. The NCAA went before the Supreme Court of the USA, that most august of institutions, and basically said that since CFB fans, like yourself, don't want it and don't like it, that the rule gets to stay the way it is and no paying the players. And that's the reason. Obviously they dressed it up in a bunch of legalistic chicanery and speciousness, I would imagine, but that's the essential shit they said to the damn SCOTUS. And indeed they were they were sent packing. And that's a pretty hardcore pro-business, pro-establishment bunch we're talking about. They're looking for a reason to let the NCAA get its way and to keep the plantation system going. But you gotta come up with something. Give me an argument he said! And they had none. Because there is none.....
And I could. I know I could get through to her. Not that that would be necessary in a case this open and shut. But in some other case. And it's true, I'm not just mouthing off, I really do like Kavanaugh. I don't now if he did that shit to that girl or not, but it's too late now. What's done is done. And he's my favorite SCOTUS justice....
This is so f*** crazy. 13.5 million for someone who has never played a down of college football. Scratch that, to just go to college.
Thats what Florida offered. Shouldnt have offered if you couldnt pay up. Glad he made them look really bad
It did screw Florida and certainly should provide some lessons learned
Notre Dame Fans travel to games around the world because of Notre Dame and not for any particular player. Do you think they would do the same for a semi pro team simply using its brand and stadium?
