OT: FSU' Johnson arrest video

[perseverare]

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2015/07/06/video-shows-punch-that-led-to-qbs-arrest/29775149/

Sal:
hypothetically: put up your best legal defense of this guy? what argument can you make?

 

[Epictitus]

That girl had no business thinking she could get a drink just because she was in front of him in line. She deserved to get beat on because he is an FSU football player. Poor Johnson was just trying to emulate his hero Winston/Karlos Williams and other FSU players and the people are picking on him.

 

[Walruzz]

This has got to be like Christmas in July for you.

 

[Walruzz]

BEST legal defense? Boot Epictitus and anybody else from this board off of the Jury. (No1e would follow him out of the room, saving the State a strike.)

Mitigate if you can, fight if you have to.

If I have to fight this case? This video is the first step in building a case, and/or a defense, but it is not the only one and potentially not even the most important piece.

His attorney is handling it well.

 

[perseverare]

1st thing I notice:
she initiates the interaction
she tries, obviously and clearly, to 'box' him off the bar
he addresses her only as she raises her hands and knees (without any provocation)
she swings 1st; he one could argue was acting in self defense.
of course one could say he could have restrained her without using the ultimate weapon
but
then society says a man does not hit a woman; but the law says we are equal under the law
What if that was not a stupid drunken teen or whatever she was, but instead was Rhonda Rousey?
Would you feel differently?

this is on her; no provocation: no incident.

 

[Epictitus]

Christmas only comes once a year. FSU players beating, raping, robbing and more is a near daily event and the rush to clear them is even more disgusting.

Pers said, "it's on her" You sir, are a moron!

 

[perseverare]

Christmas only comes once a year. FSU players beating, raping, robbing and more is a near daily event and the rush to clear them is even more disgusting.

Pers said, "it's on her" You sir, are a moron!

coming from you? well, that's like "Christmas in July!

 

[BGI User 1596]

Nice.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Perse you dont. You cut the deal and take lumps because you are never going to when a mutual combat argument b/w a man and a woman with a video like that. The argument has to be that she escalated the situation and swung at him but the problem with that is:
1. He grabs her first and continues to hold on to her as she tells him to stop.

2. No way he felt threatened for his safety even after she swung at him.

Even without a video like that it's really hard to win a mutual combat argument between a man and a woman. Best chances of doing that are if a man gets blitzed by a woman with a weapon or the woman is Ronda rousey

 

[wiu86]

I have absolutely no use for a man that strikes a woman. I do not care what the issue is or who started it.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

This is why you don't try the case.

 

[Benito Sanchez]

I keep hearing from our academic brethren that biology is a social construct,if this is so, then the instigator of this event the woman is wholly culpable. Johnson should request N.O.W.'s legal defense team to come to his aid.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Biology and gender are different. People say gender is a construct not biology.

 

[Walruzz]

SAL - with you 100%. Every time two attorneys square off in a courtroom, one has made a tremendous mistake and does not know it yet.

Practice much criminal?

 

[SALittleGiant513]

I dont. I bounce back between west Texas and central Texas and do mostly oil field injuries. The majority of the criminal I do is for either former clients or family. Small things, Dwi, speeding tickets, possession. Clerked for criminal judge after 2 L.

 

[perseverare]

I dont. I bounce back between west Texas and central Texas and do mostly oil field injuries. The majority of the criminal I do is for either former clients or family. Small things, Dwi, speeding tickets, possession. Clerked for criminal judge after 2 L.

Sal
1st contact is her shoulder into him.

first thing I do is counter file assault charges against her!
put the court in the position of acting with gender bias
then
I try to cut a deal.

PS: IMO, this chick is a drunkin loose cannon; that will not be her last bar brawl; and probably not her 1st.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

You can't counter file for assault. You can sue her for assault but that's a civil matter. You can request the prosecution press charges against her for assault but that's not going to happen.

Prosecution is going to argue that first contact was accidental and/or not enough to instigate the punch. His biggest issue outside of the video of that actual punch is that the woman pulls away and attempts to disengage but he keeps a hold of her.

 

[twalsh]

1st thing I notice:
she initiates the interaction
she tries, obviously and clearly, to 'box' him off the bar
he addresses her only as she raises her hands and knees (without any provocation)
she swings 1st; he one could argue was acting in self defense.
of course one could say he could have restrained her without using the ultimate weapon
but
then society says a man does not hit a woman; but the law says we are equal under the law
What if that was not a stupid drunken teen or whatever she was, but instead was Rhonda Rousey?
Would you feel differently?

this is on her; no provocation: no incident.

That's how I see it. He gets legitimately in trouble for being stupid enough not to just walk away. If FSU boots him for that, fine. It's his second infraction in a pretty short time. From a legal perspective I see no way he gets in any trouble. A first year law student could get him off. She has her fist cocked in an obviously threatening way, she throws a punch, she knees him, all before he punches her. We don't know what either one said to each other, maybe there'll be witnesses to that. My guess is the charges are dropped, or they charge both of them, and he rides off into the sunset to some JUCO.

 

[perseverare]

That's how I see it. He gets legitimately in trouble for being stupid enough not to just walk away. If FSU boots him for that, fine. It's his second infraction in a pretty short time. From a legal perspective I see no way he gets in any trouble. A first year law student could get him off. She has her fist cocked in an obviously threatening way, she throws a punch, she knees him, all before he punches her. We don't know what either one said to each other, maybe there'll be witnesses to that. My guess is the charges are dropped, or they charge both of them, and he rides off into the sunset to some JUCO.

note that NO ONE comes to her aid to 'defend' her; says something.
her witnesses will be hard to come by.

 

[schadenfreude]

Wow...

First off, she is at the bar first. He makes first contact by elbowing her in the back.

She objects. He grabs her and holds her.

She makes a half assed effort to shove him away. Her "punch" wouldn't have hurt a toddler.

He escalates the situation EXPONENTIALLY by punching her in the face with all his might.

FSU is kicking him off the team. Good for them. This kid may end up doing jail time.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Lol, bruh... he swung at someone he was easily bigger and stronger then who was trying to get away from him but couldn't because he wouldn't let go of her...

 

[Johnnie82]

This is why even with video everything is still as clear as mud. One person says she initiated contact, someone else says he initiated contact.

 

[onlyonenow]

the only ones saying he gets off is the FSU fans. Otherwise people with common sense will say when he hit her like he did he is done.

 

[cgvr]

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2015/07/06/video-shows-punch-that-led-to-qbs-arrest/29775149/

Sal:
hypothetically: put up your best legal defense of this guy? what argument can you make?

argus and no1e entered a bar....

 

[perseverare]

You can't counter file for assault. You can sue her for assault but that's a civil matter. You can request the prosecution press charges against her for assault but that's not going to happen.

Prosecution is going to argue that first contact was accidental and/or not enough to instigate the punch. His biggest issue outside of the video of that actual punch is that the woman pulls away and attempts to disengage but he keeps a hold of her.

Sal...so wrong; the 1st punch is the key; and the simultaneous kneeing; that was the initiation. He did not initiate any 1st contact and that is her big problem. She caused the event: she will lose.
When she shouldered him the atltercation began; that was clear provocation.
I am not buying M/F defense.
If he request the prosecutor files charges and the prosecutor denies him the charges, based on this tape he can argue he was denied his rights.

That is why this case goes nowheres; both will admit complicity and both will avoid court for some deal or mutual statement.

 

[schadenfreude]

Sal...so wrong; the 1st punch is the key; and the simultaneous kneeing; that was the initiation. He did not initiate any 1st contact and that is her big problem. She caused the event: she will lose.
When she shouldered him the atltercation began; that was clear provocation.
I am not buying M/F defense.
If he request the prosecutor files charges and the prosecutor denies him the charges, based on this tape he can argue he was denied his rights.

That is why this case goes nowheres; both will admit complicity and both will avoid court for some deal or mutual statement.

He initiates contact TWICE before she touches him. The bump in the back and then grabbing her.

He could have ended the entire situation with a simple "sorry, my bad" after he elbowed her from behind. My guess is he said something closer to "shut up bitch".

 

[perseverare]

He initiates contact TWICE before she touches him. The bump in the back and then grabbing her.

He could have ended the entire situation with a simple "sorry, my bad" after he elbowed her from behind. My guess is he said something closer to "shut up bitch".

or she could have made room rather than raise a fist! Bars are by usual circumstance an area where incidental brushing is usual; that may have been the case. If you think that is an aggresive move you are dilussional and maybe never went to a club. There would be constant brawls with what you propose.
She is the undenial aggressor, clearly getting in his way to address the bar.

Who punched first is the whole of the matter; that his puch was better is not the determinent.


"you guess" ... is that evidence?

 

[irishalice]

Why didn't he just tap her shoulder and ask if she minded moving over if he didn't want to wait for his turn? Guess the under aged QB was really thirsty for his non-alcoholic drink?

He started the whole mess by trying to push past her and ran like a coward after hitting her. If either one of them had just shown some manners/common curtsey the fight would of been avoided.

 

[perseverare]

re watch that - she is behing the guy with glasses and beteeen he and the guy with dreads, there are two girls next to them. Room for both those 'large girls'.
As they leave Johnson and then the girl move towards those spots; she objects and immediately makes a fist in threat; he does grab THAT fist. But there was in fact NO need for her actions. There was not eye contact nor exchange till her aggresive move and turn on Johnson.
I give a RA bout Johnson: just the facts Ma'm.
Then her punch - her knee and if she had her way: him injured. But she did not get her way.
BTW: she stayed on and continued partying.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Perse I disagree,

You are discounting why it appears that she punched at him. If you look at the video after she slides to the bar and blocks him before the punch and the knee he is grabbing her as she is pulling away from him. She looks to be swinging at him to get him to stop grabbing her and pulling her away.

But even if you count the punch and the knee as initiating the contact, for the use of self defense to be justified and used as a valid defense it must be reasonable. If my secretary pushes me for being harsh with her I can't give her a stone cold stunner in response.

I am not sure how you argue that he felt he was in danger with the size difference and his ability to get away from the situation, even if he did feel like he was in danger and needed to defend himself I am not sure the use of the force he chose is reasonable. Prosecutor's aren't denying him his rights if after talking to witnesses, the parties and reviewing the tape they decline to pursue a matter, he can pursue a civil claim if he wants to. Not saying he goes to jail for any amount of time if he has just a normal attorney even, but with Baez this will be handled pretty quickly.

 

[irishalice]

I know what I watched and I disagree with you.

He started it by trying to shove his way to the bar which meant he was touching her person, she took exception to that, and all it probably would of taken was an "excuse me, do you mind if I slide in next to you." Duh?

 

[cgvr]

re watch that - she is behing the guy with glasses and beteeen he and the guy with dreads, there are two girls next to them. Room for both those 'large girls'.
As they leave Johnson and then the girl move towards those spots; she objects and immediately makes a fist in threat; he does grab THAT fist. But there was in fact NO need for her actions. There was not eye contact nor exchange till her aggresive move and turn on Johnson.
I give a RA bout Johnson: just the facts Ma'm.
Then her punch - her knee and if she had her way: him injured. But she did not get her way.
BTW: she stayed on and continued partying.

You are a regular Jessica Fletcher.

Johnson should have been bounced hard and held for the police.

Where was the floor muscle?

Also, the fact that neither bartender jumped over the bar and into it tells me they're sissies.

Your M/F nonsense is more idiocy.

He was never in danger and I am quite certain his dialogue was straight out of "punkville". He's toast.

 

[perseverare]

I know what I watched and I disagree with you.

He started it by trying to shove his way to the bar which meant he was touching her person, she took exception to that, and all it probably would of taken was an "excuse me, do you mind if I slide in next to you." Duh?

and
the way to handle that is with a fist and a knee? then a punch

she (prosecutor) has no case! both parties will share the guilt.

ask yourself it it was 2 girls? or the girl was in fact Rhonda Rousey?

 

[schadenfreude]

or she could have made room rather than raise a fist! Bars are by usual circumstance an area where incidental brushing is usual; that may have been the case. If you think that is an aggresive move you are dilussional and maybe never went to a club. There would be constant brawls with what you propose.
She is the undenial aggressor, clearly getting in his way to address the bar.

Who punched first is the whole of the matter; that his puch was better is not the determinent.


"you guess" ... is that evidence?

She can't get in "his way" because they are both entitled to open bar space. She got to the open area first, thus making it her space. You are not expected to make space for those you cannot see who are behind you. Rather, those who find themselves behind someone standing at a bar are expected to excuse themselves if they want to squeeze on by.

No, my guess is just an educated guess. The video is evidence enough:

"Florida State Attorney says only idiots are blaming the woman in bar fight"

The woman in the Florida State bar fight did NOTHING wrong ... and if you think she did, you're an IDIOT ... so says State Attorney Willie Meggs.

As we previously reported, De'Andre Johnson is adamant he was NOT the aggressor in a bar fight that culminated with the FSU quarterback punching a woman in the face.

In fact, we're told Johnson's family believes the woman struck first and should be charged with a crime ... just like Johnson, who was charged with misdemeanor battery.

But Meggs -- the man in charge of the investigation -- disagrees ... telling us:

"Every village has an idiot. You gotta be the village idiot to think that girl has to be charged."

Meggs says ... "I know what he did. After he punched her in the nose, he ran away."


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2015/07/07/flori...be-charged-says-state-attorney/#ixzz3fDzpkLBr

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Lets remember its only a misdemeanor battery charge.

 

[Telx1]

Perse, do you really believe what you are posting here, or just being provocative?

 

[mokpra37]

I don't care how infatuated he is with FSU or how often he posts negative comments about FSU, the second poster has a point: hitting, beating, raping women has happened far more often with FSU players than with any other teams players in the last few years.

 

[NDEwing18]

Sal...so wrong; the 1st punch is the key; and the simultaneous kneeing; that was the initiation. He did not initiate any 1st contact and that is her big problem. She caused the event: she will lose.
When she shouldered him the atltercation began; that was clear provocation.
I am not buying M/F defense.
If he request the prosecutor files charges and the prosecutor denies him the charges, based on this tape he can argue he was denied his rights.

That is why this case goes nowheres; both will admit complicity and both will avoid court for some deal or mutual statement.

I don't think you can properly evaluate unless you know Florida law regarding self-defense. Battery, assault and self-defense isn't as easy as "Person X was the aggressor," or "there was clear provocation."

 

[DubsDreader]

He was framed!

 

[irishalice]

and
the way to handle that is with a fist and a knee? then a punch

she (prosecutor) has no case! both parties will share the guilt.

ask yourself it it was 2 girls? or the girl was in fact Rhonda Rousey?

How about the way he handled it? This wasn't a crowed bar, this wasn't incidental contact, he was trying push past her. and lost in all of this is that with a little self control and manners the altercation could of been avoided.