ND vs Clemson Game thread
- Thread starter ftnfan62
- Start date
Recruits care. 10-3 looks way better than 8-5. I still remember two schools I visited had very slowly improved the previous 5 years prior to what would have been my freshman year. I was impressed by that as an 18 year old. We need to win to sell recruits.
I think 10-3 with a blowout of USC is a solid year coming off of 9-4 with two bad losses.
I’m consistent with what I had hoped for…and physics. We’ve no choice now but to give Freeman reasonable time to learn. And even if he does, he faces the same recruiting challenges CBK did.
As I’ve often posted, I still hope NIL and transfers favor ND. Augment a decent recruiting base with key skill players as talent seemingly become more distributed across college football. In my view, it still comes down to who ND can recruit.
One can hope.
Let’s say that there are 4 other potential high picks, so you’d all quit on your teammates with three games left in the season ?
Maybe it’s a “me generation” thing.
I could never quit on my team, teammates, coaches and University
IMHO I like 9-3
If you compared it to Kelly's first two season its on par, and the recruiting momentum stays on track.
Plus the Huzkers last good coach avg 9-3 record they fired him because who wouldn't want the Nebraska job with its history at that time ?
Well its been a long road for them and still haven't cleared the hump.
Next season should say alot but not with this OC, but well see
You know better than me it’s all of the above. But having played soccer at a high level and watching many sports…the greatest factor remains talent.
Famous saying: all things being equal…
ND doesn’t have the horses to be a NC contender. Don’t get me wrong, I agree the coaching is lacking: X’s and O’s and inspiration. These kids have come out flat all too many times.
ND remains sone distance away. It’s a work in progress again. I’m 57 and a 3-5 year plan sucks.
🙂
I still cheer for ND.
Get a grip. The level of talent freeman is bringing in is much better than Kelly.
He has to develop it.
Wr is an issue and unfortunately people thought it was a quick fix. Depending on three freshmen and a sophomore to be the difference between bad to good was simply a poor expectation by fans.
Merriweather was a bust this year.
Stack classes and then evaluate freeman.
The offense is a problem. Freeman will be defined but where he goes here.
1. He can stick with parker and bet this was a timing issue and things will get better after one season like it has for golden... Or he can pivot.
2. He has to find a QB. Those of you that think angeli is a difference maker are delusional. Hes more of the same. The answer is minchey, carr, or portal.
3. He has to commit to getting difference makers the ball.
4. The Oline needs a full overhaul.
Zeke has always under played his expected value but he was solid last year. This year he regressed. When left along he can be ok, but when counted on to help those around him he flat sucks.
Alt is gone
Fisher - I don't think he's lt material. At this point I really hope he goes pro or if he comes back he plays lg.
Coogan - is he lg or center. He isn't spectacular at guard
Rocco - I think he's solid and good at rg
This is a chance to define the running game from the ground up. The oc, the ol coach, and the RB coach need to decide what the identity is and commit to it. There is likely 3-4 new starters next year.
ND is looking at a bunch of 2nd year and 3rd year guys at ol, wr, rb, te, and QB next year. It may mean more losses....but could be something special to build over a two year window. What freeman decides will determine his legacy
As the saying goes, “talent will out”
What you have to consider is the degree or differential in the levels of talent.
All of the ND guys playing in the NFL are living proof of the talent at ND
Take a look at OSU when Urban took over and ND when Ara took over.
Basically the exact same talent levels, but what took those teams from 6-7 and 2-7 to 12-0 and 9-1 ? COACHES !
Coaches make a difference !
10-3 would be a good season. Not a great season, but a solid one. Will we be better next year than this year? That is the question. With this team 9-4 is a strong possibility.
Nobody is disagreeing that coaching makes a difference.
Some of us are saying it’s one of many factors…and 2nd to talent all things being equal.
You’re on danger of chasing windmills here.
😉
All good. This season has played itself out by now. Let’s hope Freeman and staff learn and improve. I don’t think it’s a bad situation…something to build upon.
1) solve the OC issue, with or without Parker,
2) get the next QB ready.
3) improve the OL and receiving corps.
Above all: get foundational top talent through organic recruiting…supplemented with key transfers at skill positions.
Fantasy wish: as a great academic institution with a great business school, get the players some serious NIL $$$! Teaching them Personal Finance + Biz Dev 101…maybe some basic linear math!
😀
The level of talent is irrelevant if it doesn’t produce outstanding results.
Kelly left him an intact and solid program that had 5 consecutive seasons with 10 wins., so he’s not rebuilding a team in shambles
Enough of the “give him more time” talk, enough of the “he needs to do this, he needs to do that” talk.
Results are all that counts !
If you can’t coach at the highest level the rest is irrelevant
And that’s a lot of “gets”
As I stated, MF inherited a solid program.
I wish him, the team and the University well, and while I have a high degree of enthusiasm I don’t have a high degree when it comes to expectations.
But if I can get through Joe Kuharich and Hugh Devore, I can get through anything ! 😜
The talent is similar to the quality of talent Brian Kelly used to get (which lacked the top end players) to compete with the top end teams and that hasn't changed in the two years since Marcus Freeman has taken over
I post about this and provide the data in one form or another on a regular basis how this point continues to get ignored is befuddling beyond belief
Also no smart football operations-office is evaluating coaches by their win-loss record anymore they evaluate a team and coaches performance by adjusted production (adjusted for opponent quality and for luck) and in that respect Notre Dame has improved a little bit through 10 weeks on their performance from last season
I post about this and provide the data in one form or another on a regular basis how this point continues to get ignored is befuddling beyond belief
Also no smart football operations-office is evaluating coaches by their win-loss record anymore they evaluate a team and coaches performance by adjusted production (adjusted for opponent quality and for luck) and in that respect Notre Dame has improved a little bit through 10 weeks on their performance from last season
But it’s still apples vs oranges. BK really had nowhere to go but up. Took him some time, but he did a fine job in making ND competitive, with an occasional NC run where ND was always outclassed by true elites.
Freeman is doing ok with what he inherited from BK. In year 2. The sky is not falling…except on any NC hopes, for now.
Are you joking? Kelly left him with 4 wide receivers when a program needs around 9!
No center or interior olineman outside of Zeke... And come on man.
Corner backs were depleted minus hart
Safeties were a dumpster fire
Let's not remake history
You are correct. But I would say the most important position, the QB , was where Kelly left MF in a predicament. A top end QB can really change a game. That is where Kelly had the biggest recruiting issue. Just in my opinion
I agree we will see if his second class can be coached, but that would mean replacing the OC
Do you see the Irish doing that?
And if you get a top end QB out of HS he's wondering if the transfer portal will hinder his chances
The OC needs to go. He needs to bring in a top notch OC. Plus the WR coach needs to be looked at.
If I was AD, I would have the majority of my operations budget going to scouting and recruiting and my operations office would be filled with ivy league math types building me propriety databases and metrics which I would rely on for all high-level football operations decisions (like salaries, contracts, NIL bonuses, etc).
THIS is how smart football operations offices are operating in 2023. Nobody gives a sh1t about win-loss record anymore; there's way more comprehensive and precise tools/metrics with which to evaluate the performance of a football team and a coaching staff these days.
Obviously, ND is not operating this way, which is why they are losing despite having one of the most dominant brand positions in the sport. Which is also why Jack Swarbrick is no longer going to be AD beyond this season.
The QB and wr talent doesn't matter of your running to the A gap vs 8 man fronts on first down every series.
Lots to blame on Parker but Sam and Tyree have to shoulder this one as much. You can’t get a stop then turn it back over. That was just like Marrist at Lou.
ND still needs some pieces. They don’t have a diff maker on the edge, maybe a thats Faison soon but they need more.
Three losses sucks, but it’s moving in the right direction. These are not Marshall losses and outside of Lou your DJ holding onto an easy pic or Sam making a few plays away form a CFP run.
Land the next two classes.
ND still needs some pieces. They don’t have a diff maker on the edge, maybe a thats Faison soon but they need more.
Three losses sucks, but it’s moving in the right direction. These are not Marshall losses and outside of Lou your DJ holding onto an easy pic or Sam making a few plays away form a CFP run.
Land the next two classes.
Kelly left us at a bad time, right before the bowl game, and Freeman stepped up. He deserves two more years. Kelly did not leave us with a perfect situation. I hope Alabama wins by 30 tonight.
No one is calling for MF to be fired. He’ll get 5 years, as he should. This was a very tough game but also a winnable game. I hate to beat this to death. ND simply does not know how to win when the game being played has a lot on the line. It’s all subjective to say ND is heading in the right direction. Based on what ? Facts are facts. 3 losses two years in a row and maybe more losses yet this year. We’ll see. This has been a very disappointing season. ND is a top 20 team. That’s it. That’s all they have been for a long long time. Sure, a couple good undefeated years under Kelly. But once again when it was a big game that had a lot on the line , they got throttled. It was fools gold. At this moment , I see absolutely no difference between Kelly’s teams or Freeman’s.Very pedestrian.
Isn’t the object of your plan a better to best win/loss record ?
”Nobody gives a shit about win-loss records anymore”. ? ? ? ?
That’s the primary object of the game !
Don’t lecture me about the front office as I’m fairly well versed at the highest level.
While I agree that it all starts at the front office, if you don’t have the right field general as your coach all the math and calculations aren’t going to do you any good.
Similar threads
