Well, the ND vs FSU game was a travesty in officiating, and that’s being kind.
Michigan vs Notre Dame
- Thread starter BodiTheGreat
- Start date
Well, the ND vs FSU game was a travesty in officiating, and that’s being kind.
How can you put Riley in your top five after only two seasons in one of the weakest conferences in the nation?He's been a head coach for a whole 2 years. You're right though he should've won one by now.
Good argument.
Shaw? Are you serious? No one is beating his door down to hire him.
Go get your Sooners gear if you haven’t already.
What exactly has he accomplished?
What am I missing here?
Nobody is denying Kelly is good at some things and poor at others EXCEPT the chronic naysayers. To them BK has flaws as did Willingham therefore Kelly is the same as Willingham.
The rest of the former flavor of the month names lie Petersen Patterson Fitzgerald Shaw Rich Whittingham
And....
Thrice again...
Yosemite Sam
Blacques Jaques Shellacque
Roger Rabbit
Wile E. Coyote
Porky Pig
Mighty Mouse
Robo Cop
Foghorn Leghorn
The Martian...
or maybe just the space modulator... but not both
Deputy Dog
Uncle Pecos
Crystal ball is what you want.
So sorry.
But we are going to try and find someone to get us where we want to be.
Winners try until they succeed. Losers make excuses.
I think this is a poor way for a athletic director to approach the situation.
Most blue bloods with NDs wealth will fire a guy who has gone stale or who hasn't delivered and they'll bring in the best coach at the time.
If that guy doesn't perform they'll bring in another top coach at the time who might have upside and so on and so forth
the problem is is Notre Dame is evaluating coaches like they evaluated coaches back in the 60s or something
Brian Kelly has a lucky 12 and 0 record and then his seat gets ice cold while he continues to build a program with a nine and three upside
so to answer your question we don't have to know who the better coach is at the moment we just have to have the balls to make a move and embrace the risk that comes with it while we continue to take chances on up and coming coaches and if they don't deliver we can always wait for one of the established coaches at a power program to shake loose and then write a fat check to try to lure them to Notre Dame
Instead we keep our 9 and 3 coach and keep extending him while the other wealthy programs swipe up all of the prospective head coaching candidates that we could have hired or higher away all of the A list type coaches that become free agents.
Can't wait for Urban Meyer to pass us by while USC with their opening lures him to southern California sometime over the next couple years.
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As much or more than Brian Kelly in just 2 seasons, two heismans already, and he has a loaded class coming in. He’s young, he has 10x the upside that Brian Kelly does at this point and it isn’t close.
there are up-and-coming coaches waiting for a promotion to the big leagues like a program like Notre Dame almost every year. And we don't ever have an opening at head coach we can never take a chance on one of those guys.
Notre Dame is stuck in no-man's-land which every sports organization absolutely dreads
They are good enough to be a solid team who might even be good enough to get into the playoffs but they're not good enough to get over the hump so the front office keeps them around and keeps extending their talent hoping they'll miraculously improve overnight as they get older and older and instead they just get more stale while their competition who has vision and foresight get younger and better and eventually just passes them by
in the last 10 years I don't know how many times I've seen big-time coaches get hired away to other programs who then become national title contenders or assistant coaches with a lot of cache/stock who get hired away and instantly turn their programs into juggernauts or a Tom Herman comes around or a James Franklin comes around gets hired by a blue blood and then starts pulling in top five classes and becomes the next Alabama or Georgia
Texas is on that trajectory right now.
Notre Dame is stuck in no-man's-land which every sports organization absolutely dreads
They are good enough to be a solid team who might even be good enough to get into the playoffs but they're not good enough to get over the hump so the front office keeps them around and keeps extending their talent hoping they'll miraculously improve overnight as they get older and older and instead they just get more stale while their competition who has vision and foresight get younger and better and eventually just passes them by
in the last 10 years I don't know how many times I've seen big-time coaches get hired away to other programs who then become national title contenders or assistant coaches with a lot of cache/stock who get hired away and instantly turn their programs into juggernauts or a Tom Herman comes around or a James Franklin comes around gets hired by a blue blood and then starts pulling in top five classes and becomes the next Alabama or Georgia
Texas is on that trajectory right now.
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How many times are people going to ask this?
My first calls would be to;
Meyer, Petersen, Whittingham, Riley, Shaw
in that order.
I wouldn't want any of these guys outside of Riley and Meyer and one of them is already very established at Oklahoma.
But I get your frustration with the question it reminds me of libertarians in the USA "how are you going to pay for that" no matter how many times that question is thoroughly answered by the left
They are all faaaaar better than what we have now, it isn't close. Peterson and Whittingham are elite coaches who would kill with Notre Dame's talent.
My problem with Peterson is that he's never really moved the needle on the talent wherever he's hired I don't see much separation between him and someone like Brian Kelly to be honest. he's had some nice seasons for sure and he's definitely gotten better results wherever he's gone but he's never been able to successfully recruit the talent needed to win the entire thing.
We need a coach that is going to make headlines on ESPN who's going to really shake up the brand here and turn Notre Dame into a cool /happening type of destination again and in general really improve the brand and make it resonate with teenagers and modern popular culture again.
You do that by winning football games but you also do that by having a highly charismatic coach that really relates to teenagers. We need a coach that is a good leader and just has a style that talent is super attracted to who can recruit his ass off. Ed orgeron for instance has always been an excellent recruiter I really like what he's doing at LSU right now and that program has a ton of upside heading into 2019. Or Tom Herman or James Franklin who are moving the needle on the talent at Penn State and Texas
Whittingham and Peterson are more or less Brian Kelly style coaches who don't really have a track record recruiting premiere athletes in abundance and although I think they'll get better talent at Notre Dame I don't think they'll get more talent than Notre Dame is getting right now with Brian Kelly
We need a coach that is going to make headlines on ESPN who's going to really shake up the brand here and turn Notre Dame into a cool /happening type of destination again and in general really improve the brand and make it resonate with teenagers and modern popular culture again.
You do that by winning football games but you also do that by having a highly charismatic coach that really relates to teenagers. We need a coach that is a good leader and just has a style that talent is super attracted to who can recruit his ass off. Ed orgeron for instance has always been an excellent recruiter I really like what he's doing at LSU right now and that program has a ton of upside heading into 2019. Or Tom Herman or James Franklin who are moving the needle on the talent at Penn State and Texas
Whittingham and Peterson are more or less Brian Kelly style coaches who don't really have a track record recruiting premiere athletes in abundance and although I think they'll get better talent at Notre Dame I don't think they'll get more talent than Notre Dame is getting right now with Brian Kelly
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Wrong.
There are many that fall on his sword every time all the time no matter what.
When he pulls out one of his signature embarrassing performances it's crickets for about a week. Then it goes into full blown excuse mode. This last powerful showing agaisnt Clemson most stayed hush hush for around 10 days.
After the dust suttled from the drubbing Brian Kelly had us receiving it was excuse city.
They have retards. Undefeated REGULAR season. Coach of the year. We only allow players who are actually higher than geniuses that are only interested in the 40 year plan.
We aren't a football factory. Different aisle. We faced a superstar QB.
It never ends and it all leads back to making excuses for displaying the big suck in the big stage game.
AGAIN
Far more often the hot name becomes just another coach once the book is out and hes facing tough competition. Some will say he was just 'lucky' to have those good seasons beforehand.
None of the guys you named are in the same stratosphere as Peterson and Whittingham. Peterson won 2 Fiesta bowls at Boise State and Whittingham has an 11-2 bowl record. Two of those were major bowls (Sugar, Fiesta). At freakin Utah with barely top 50 talent. Brian Kelly can't even keep it close with top 10-12 talent. You don't see a big difference? Really?
Ed Snorgeron? Come on man, my dog could recruit to LSU and Texas just because of all the homegrown talent. There's absolutely nothing "cool" about Ed Boregeron.Hell he can't even beat OUR coach in a bowl game.
I'm not sold on Herman, we'll see but as a coach I don't think he's any better than Kelly.
It's not all about recruiting man, Notre Dame needs a coach first that can overachieve a bit early then gain recruiting momentum. None of those coaches are coming to Notre Dame and recruiting like they do at LSU/Texas.
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This ^^^^^^^^^^^
The word overachieve and Brian Kelly are a million miles apart.
In a decade here name one time he had our Irish Irish overachieve.
Just one. .....
Waiting........
Still waiting.....
Awfully quiet in here......
Anything?
Nope.
The next time he defies probability will be the first time.
Seriously!!!
At Notre Dame mind you.
Not one damn time. 100 plus games and counting. Overachieve? Not in BK tenure.
Just remember.
At Notre Dame.
Not
One
Time
At
Notre
Dame
BK has definitely fallen short in the big games, no question, no even close to a debate. But don’t say “never”. We were 10pt underdogs at Oklahoma in 2012 and NOBODY gave us a chance, with everyone saying that will be the week ND will get exposed. BK pulled off a double digit win. I’m not defending his big game prowess, just saying it has happened.
That was the one win of Brian Kelly's entire tenure that actually surprised me, every other game he's won was expected.
Now let's counter that with how many upset losses he's had, countless. He loses games he shouldn't all the time.
Just know this...I want Brian Kelly to overachieve. I want there to be a plethora of games we defied logic and kicked ass.
I can't consider the OU game in 2012 that.
That team finished with three losses. Was highly overrated and one dimensional.
The odds makers thought to that point ND was lucky and they sort of, kind of were.
OU lost to Kstate, lost to us, then got a beat down by the Aggies in the bowl.
There is one game in BK tenure that I can say he coached a perfect game. From game plan to the energy on the field.
Ironically we still didn't even win that game but we gave FSU all it could handle. We should have won that game.
That was BK at his very best.
Oddly enough we've only seen that type of performance 1 time.
Somethimg else very telling...
Most tough games in the regular season we are right there.
We don't win but close.
FSU
Clemson
@ Michigan
@ Stanford
Georgia
It seems when the opposition only has a week or two at most to prepare we are right there.
5 weeks to prepare it becomes a complete joke.
We do the same shit we've practiced since August and the other team studies and studies and does some new wrinkles etc etc
Hence the blowouts.
Real coaching rises to the occasion.
Not ours.
This is a great point I hadn't got into yet, but it is very telling.
The clueless faces he makes on the sidelines during these atrocities are also very telling.
If his mediocre gameplans don't work right off the jump he has no idea how to adjust. We just keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole over and over again until the clock hits zero. Then it's another offseason of excuses.
Well it's been 9 damn years I want to see some results! It's Notre Dame people!
To win these games they have to be really motivated. This is not Kellys strong point .
Music City bowl and Citris Bowl, both against LSU, SEC talent. ND was not expected to either but won. You have to give BK credit as in both instances the team was really struggling and BK rallied the troops.
Yes, he has had more upset losses than upset wins, not denying that. What you cannot understand is that BK may not be an elite coach, he is a program builder. He has built the infrastructure necessary to win in today’s game. The program was broken when BK arrived, it was outdated and stale. BK resurrected it and brought it into the modern era (as much as ND will allow). If BK cannot win a title, at least it is in position where the next coach will be setup to succeed. That important impact that BK has on the program is being overlooked by the haters.
Rallied the troops to beat 9-4 LSU on a bail out catch by Miles Boykin? That's the best you've got? Music City Bowl? Wow
Just responding to your quote that every game BK has won was expected....which was wrong. So basically when ND does win against a good team, that team automatically is “overrated”, did I get that right? How is beating a 9-3 LSU team not a good win? It’s not an elite win but it is a good win. Look, it is all about expectations. My expectations are just not as high as yours.
Again, what has he done for Oklahoma that Kelly has not done?
So the heisman is a coaching achievement? He did not recruit either of those guys.
Again, HE COACHES IN THE WEAKEST CONFERENCE OF THEM ALL!!!
I am still waiting for you to name 14 coaches that are better than Kelly!
You really think Kelly is the 15 best coach? Name 14 that are better.
You said Kelly is a 10-15 top rated coach. Even if you put him in the top 10, top 10 out of 120 coaches in D1 is pretty elite.
It's an okay win, Notre Dame should expect to compete with elite teams.
Just because Notre Dame botched the regular season with 5 losses and ended up in the Music City Bowl, doesn't make beating a mediocre LSU a good win. I'm talking about big games and major bowls.
The Citrus bowl win was okay but it wasn't a major bowl.
When you post back, post it in the Brian Kelly thread I just created, I'm tired of derailing this one.
There aren't 10 elite coaches in the country and I said 10-15 because the ones I could name were just off the top of my head. There's probably a few I forgot about.
Let's continue this conversation in the Brian Kelly thread I just created, I don't want all these threads to continue to get derailed.
ND's classes according to scout were 5,6, and 2. Perhaps good enough? String 5 to 6 years of that like OSU and maybe a shot. In terms of Holtz is his recruiting stopped before he left in my opinion because of that. He knew the administration would not allow the football factory types to play at ND any longer.
In terms of the OU and Washington coach what happens to them when they get in the playoffs? Same thing that happens to ND. They get slaughtered. Until OU and Washington have the same level of player they will continue to get killed.
So until ND brings in a SEC style coach the ceiling is making the playoffs and getting obliterated just like everyone else. Urban Meyer is your best choice then.
What impact might that be?
The disastrous handling of the quarterback position?
The 37 drop backs in a hurricane?
The countless empty sets first and goal from the five yard line?
Oh..you said program builder. My bad.
The same program that finished 4-8? Not the beginning of his rebuild mind you but right smack in the middle of it.
Oh well....
The BK lovers don't want change in fear of part two of Weis, Willingham and Davie unless you can guarantee them a certain win/loss record.
Apparently going 4-8 and several 5 loss seasons is sssooooo much better than Davie, Weis and Willingham
Let's dive a tad deeper.
Three seasons 8-5
One season 4-8
Two seasons 12-1
Two seasons 10-3
One season 9-4
I don't know about you but....
Guess who this is
10-3
9-3
3-9
7-6
6-6
Those are the 5 seasons under one Charles Weis
I'm not suggesting we bring him back but too many people act like Brian Kelly is 10000 miles better than Charlie Weis.
BK is better alright. A tiny smidgen.
Certainly not enough to freak out acting like we can't get a better coach.
That's the biggest bunch of horseshit ever
I never said we cannot get a more elite coach or that BK is an elite coach. My whole point is that let’s not lose sight of the fact that BK built a lasting infrastructure that is needed to compete in today’s college football world. Jumbotron, training table, field turf, massive support staff, cutting edge rest and recovery equipment, GPS and other strength and training tech, better academic support for football players. I’m sure there are a ton I left out that we just don’t know about. Weis did none of that. If Weis stayed longer, it would have been more of the same, 6-6 or 7-5 seasons. What BK has built is more sustainable success to at least win 10 games. Obviously you don’t recognize any of these accomplishments so to say that BK is just a tiny bit better than Weis is just wrong.
So now you're clinging to the facility upgrades.
Good god. Any coach worth two ounces knew ND needed to get with the times. Update the facilities etc, etc.
Do you know how much CW was asking to modernize south bend? I don't and you don't either.
Do you know how many CW players BK used to get to the BCS title game?
I do.
A lot.
I didn't see Brian Kelly out there with a trowel working with the brick and mortar.
And then...holy sweet jesus. Hold the phone.
Notre Dame actually got some new training tables.
Let's celebrate another moral victory for old BK. Hell if you can't get em in a big bowl game he'll make sure we get some better training tables.
That stuff right there is far more embarrassing on ND's part than giving BK credit for getting NORMAL stuff.
Lastly...
I really believe this....
If ND hadn't gotten burned so badly in the CW salary post firing,
Brian Kelly doesn't survive after the 4-8 season.
I still can't believe you're actually using things the program should have already to give kudos to the biggest fools gold coach in the land.
Shame on ND for being stuck behind the times.
Maybe now he can put together a big bowl game win since his players will be well healed and massaged and then seen on replay with a jumbo tron.
I mean whoa. Thank God for that.
I agree with this post but training table is not an actual table for training it is a nutrition program where the athletes get custom nutrition plans based on their body types and such and they get high quality meals prepared by high quality chefs and they eat together separate from the student body.
It is basically a perk / luxury for the athletes... But like everything else at Notre Dame they were about 5 years late actually getting it implemented.
Stop the nonsense.
Just stop.
There were two teams since the playoff began that got obliterated.
Michigan State and....
US!!!
Notre Dame.
Washington lost 24-7
They actually scored a touchdown.
We couldn't even sniff the endzone
OU should have beat Geirgia in a shootout two years ago.
OU scored a bit on Alabama this past season.
Michigan State lone playoff game was just like ours.
They got obliterated. We got obliterated.
The others had much much much much better showings.
But hey...
Training tables and jumbo trons
.
Table or chart...
Who gives a shit.
It's total nonsense to give credit for something so ridiculously remedial.
Moreover...has it made a difference?
N
O
P
E
Just goes to show you have no idea what your talking about. You are such a childish person. Go root for a different team.
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