Michigan vs Notre Dame

[BodiTheGreat]

I remember we Irish fans used to complain about playing Michigan and Michigan State to start the season while they played MAC teams to warm up before us.

It sets up good for us this year because we have a bye before we play them and they have to play a night game at Happy Valley--Penn State the week before us.

*** My philosophy is If you have a great football team your schedule is easy.
If your football team sucks your schedule is hard.

I am getting butterflys in my stomach already ! Can't wait for Louisville ! This season is going to be EPIC !!

The Irish are loaded with talent and great coaching and a great trainer--Ballis !! A DYNASTY IN SOUTH BEND !

 

[SIhoosier26]

I agreed with most of your post until you said that the Irish had great coaching. They have decent coaching but I'm not calling Brian Kelly great until he shows up in a big game. Not to mention he's 0fer at Stanford and Michigan. If he's "great" he needs to start showing it.

 

[echowaker]

I agreed with most of your post until you said that the Irish had great coaching. They have decent coaching but I'm not calling Brian Kelly great until he shows up in a big game. Not to mention he's 0fer at Stanford and Michigan. If he's "great" he needs to start showing it.

many really good coaches had 0 fers on the road. did holtz ever win at miami for example ? really easy to cherry pick if one wants too. Kelly is not great or elite. very good though.

 

[SIhoosier26]

many really good coaches had 0 fers on the road. did holtz ever win at miami for example ? really easy to cherry pick if one wants too. Kelly is not great or elite. very good though.

You just agreed with me lol all I was saying is he's not "great". Good sure, but greatness is reserved for coaches that win big games.

 

[deadirishpoet]

I remember we Irish fans used to complain about playing Michigan and Michigan State to start the season while they played MAC teams to warm up before us.

It sets up good for us this year because we have a bye before we play them and they have to play a night game at Happy Valley--Penn State the week before us.

*** My philosophy is If you have a great football team your schedule is easy.
If your football team sucks your schedule is hard.

I am getting butterflys in my stomach already ! Can't wait for Louisville ! This season is going to be EPIC !!

The Irish are loaded with talent and great coaching and a great trainer--Ballis !! A DYNASTY IN SOUTH BEND !

My most favorite game hands down
Go irish

 

[NDIRISH53]

many really good coaches had 0 fers on the road. did holtz ever win at miami for example ? really easy to cherry pick if one wants too. Kelly is not great or elite. very good though.

I always say this to lou lovers... was Lou great? Yes. But he was not legendary. Lou wasn’t even in the same breathe as Ara. And Ara wasn’t even in the same class as Leahy & Rockne

Rockne & Leahy
Ara
Lou
Devine & Kelly

Devine and Kelly are in the damn good class, Lou was great, Ara was a legend, and Rockne and Leahy are all timers

 

[88ND]

I always say this to lou lovers... was Lou great? Yes. But he was not legendary. Lou wasn’t even in the same breathe as Ara. And Ara wasn’t even in the same class as Leahy & Rockne

Rockne & Leahy
Ara
Lou
Devine & Kelly

Devine and Kelly are in the damn good class, Lou was great, Ara was a legend, and Rockne and Leahy are all timers

This always makes me laugh.

I went through this with Ara64 and facts got in the way of any response.

There are two coaches better than Lou at ND. Ever.

Knute

Leahy (maybe) i will give benefit of doubt just based on the 4 titles.

I have no disrespect for ARA....

....however...

Let's look at the schedules between the two.

The opponents win percentage was significantly inferior than the schedules Lou played.

It's not even close whatsoever.

Any of those 4 coaches are light years better than what we have now.

What Lou did here especially from 88-93 was nothing short of legendary.

We were the Alabama of today. The Clemson of today.

He had insanely brutal schedules some of which are near the hardest ever by any team of any college in any year.

 

[NDIRISH53]

This always makes me laugh.

I went through this with Ara64 and facts got in the way of any response.

There are two coaches better than Lou at ND. Ever.

Knute

Leahy (maybe) i will give benefit of doubt just based on the 4 titles.

I have no disrespect for ARA....

....however...

Let's look at the schedules between the two.

The opponents win percentage was significantly inferior than the schedules Lou played.

It's not even close whatsoever.

Any of those 4 coaches are light years better than what we have now.

What Lou did here especially from 88-93 was nothing short of legendary.

We were the Alabama of today. The Clemson of today.

He had insanely brutal schedules some of which are near the hardest ever by any team if any college in any year.

True, but Ara won 3 and don’t forgot ND was flat out bad pre Ara era. I don’t doubt Lou faced a tougher schedule but both returned ND to prominence. I still believe and so do many historians that Ara was a class above Lou.

 

[88ND]

True, but Ara won 3 and don’t forgot ND was flat out bad pre Ara era. I don’t doubt Lou faced a tougher schedule but both returned ND to prominence. I still believe and so do many historians that Ara was a class above Lou.

I don't fault Ara...he played the schedule he had and won TWO titles....not three...

Having said that to clearly say Ara was better than Lou is absurd.

Had Lou played some of the cupcake schedules Ara had the good fortune of playing how many titles does Lou win? At least two...maybe more.

Had there been a playoff then he probably wins three or four.

Regardless I've nothing against Ara but I can never rank him over Lou. The opponents on the schedules are so lopsided you just can't ignore what Lou did was legendary.

Either way I wish to hell we could clone any of

Lou
Knute
Ara
Frank


Hell I'd take Devine over what we have now.

 

[deadirishpoet]

I always say this to lou lovers... was Lou great? Yes. But he was not legendary. Lou wasn’t even in the same breathe as Ara. And Ara wasn’t even in the same class as Leahy & Rockne

Rockne & Leahy
Ara
Lou
Devine & Kelly

Devine and Kelly are in the damn good class, Lou was great, Ara was a legend, and Rockne and Leahy are all timers

For me what put Holtz ahead of HCs during the time I've been a dedicated Irish fan (1970 to present) he could coach both sides of the ball. I don't remember Parseghian taking control of the defense though i was very young then and Devine was more of an minded guy i believe. Those after Holtz were either best at one side of the ball or other (jmo).
I've just recently watched the 1990 the U vs ND game where Lou Holtz was literally calling the plays for both the defense and offense. I know he did the same for other games aswell.

 

[SIhoosier26]

This always makes me laugh.

I went through this with Ara64 and facts got in the way of any response.

There are two coaches better than Lou at ND. Ever.

Knute

Leahy (maybe) i will give benefit of doubt just based on the 4 titles.

I have no disrespect for ARA....

....however...

Let's look at the schedules between the two.

The opponents win percentage was significantly inferior than the schedules Lou played.

It's not even close whatsoever.

Any of those 4 coaches are light years better than what we have now.

What Lou did here especially from 88-93 was nothing short of legendary.

We were the Alabama of today. The Clemson of today.

He had insanely brutal schedules some of which are near the hardest ever by any team of any college in any year.

Yep, I don't get why some fans try to put Lou down, yea he only had 1 title (should be 2, ND should claim 93) but for that 6 year stretch Lou lost a total of 9 games, 9 games with some of the toughest college football schedules of all time. Our schedules now are almost MAC schedules in comparison, and even then Brian Kelly lost 8 in one season!

During that stretch Lou was nothing short of legendary, anyone that says otherwise is kidding themselves.

 

[NDIRISH53]

I don't fault Ara...he played the schedule he had and won TWO titles....not three...

Having said that to clearly say Ara was better than Lou is absurd.

Had Lou played some of the cupcake schedules Ara had the good fortune of playing how many titles does Lou win? At least two...maybe more.

Had there been a playoff then he probably wins three or four.

Regardless I've nothing against Ara but I can never rank him over Lou. The opponents on the schedules are so lopsided you just can't ignore what Lou did was legendary.

Either way I wish to hell we could clone any of

Lou
Knute
Ara
Frank


Hell I'd take Devine over what we have now.

Tied in 66

 

[88ND]

Yep, I don't get why some fans try to put Lou down, yea he only had 1 title (should be 2, ND should claim 93) but for that 6 year stretch Lou lost a total of 9 games, 9 games with some of the toughest college football schedules of all time. Our schedules now are almost MAC schedules in comparison, and even then Brian Kelly lost 8 in one season!

During that stretch Lou was nothing short of legendary, anyone that says otherwise is kidding themselves.

They're not being objective whatsoever.

I can't comment much on Leahy. 4 titles speaks for itself in a sense. He obviously was doing something correct.

Having said the above I can factually say the schedules Lou had were murderous. Completley unheard of...before, during and after.

Once in a while a team might have a very tough schedule provided their opponents list have great seasons.

We had a brutal schedule yearly.

Brutal is flirting with understated.

 

[SIhoosier26]

They're not being objective whatsoever.

I can't comment much on Leahy. 4 titles speaks for itself in a sense. He obviously was doing something correct.

Having said the above I can factually say the schedules Lou had were murderous. Completley unheard of...before, during and after.

Once in a while a team might have a very tough schedule provided their opponents list have great seasons.

We had a brutal schedule yearly.

Brutal is flirting with understated.

The year he won the title he beat;

#1 Miami

#2 USC

#3 West Virginia

and #9 Michigan

The schedules are on Wiki for anyone that's curious as that's just one season. The schedules are ridiculous.

 

[Toby Smart]

To put things in perspective, the 1988 schedule also had 6-5-1 MSU, 4-7 Purdue, 3-6-2 Stanford, 6-5 Pitt, 5-7 Air Force, 3-8 Navy, 0-11 Rice, 5-6 PSU. Actually, the 1989 schedule proved to be a little more daunting. It was because of Leahy's success that the ND administration put the hammer down on the football program. Leahy endured eight of his losses during his final few years at ND, capped off by an undefeated final year. But, Father Cavanaugh made his point. The program would not be bigger than the university.

 

[SIhoosier26]

To put things in perspective, the 1988 schedule also had 6-5-1 MSU, 4-7 Purdue, 3-6-2 Stanford, 6-5 Pitt, 5-7 Air Force, 3-8 Navy, 0-11 Rice, 5-6 PSU. Actually, the 1989 schedule proved to be a little more daunting. It was because of Leahy's success that the ND administration put the hammer down on the football program. Leahy endured eight of his losses during his final few years at ND, capped off by an undefeated final year. But, Father Cavanaugh made his point. The program would not be bigger than the university.

I just posted that they also beat 4 top 10 teams in 88, including the top 3 teams in the country. That is absolutely video game like. To put that into perspective Brian Kelly has beaten literally 1 team in a decade that finished in the top 10.

1 team.

 

[NDIRISH53]

Yep, I don't get why some fans try to put Lou down, yea he only had 1 title (should be 2, ND should claim 93) but for that 6 year stretch Lou lost a total of 9 games, 9 games with some of the toughest college football schedules of all time. Our schedules now are almost MAC schedules in comparison, and even then Brian Kelly lost 8 in one season!

During that stretch Lou was nothing short of legendary, anyone that says otherwise is kidding themselves.

I don’t see people putting Lou down. Everyone including myself loves him, but I don’t think he’s on Ara’s level

 

[Toby Smart]

I just posted that they also beat 4 top 10 teams in 88, including the top 3 teams in the country. That is absolutely video game like. To put that into perspective Brian Kelly has beaten literally 1 team in a decade that finished in the top 10.

1 team.

OK. What should the administration do about it? What do you recommend? You have just been hired to replace Jack S. What would you do knowing what you just stated?

 

[88ND]

I don’t see people putting Lou down. Everyone including myself loves him, but I don’t think he’s on Ara’s level

You're right. He was better than Ara.

And Ara was very good.

 

[SIhoosier26]

OK. What should the administration do about it? What do you recommend? You have just been hired to replace Jack S. What would you do knowing what you just stated?

I was just showing an example of what made Lou so great, by showing how many great teams he beat and how tough the schedules were.

If I was Jack I would've fired Kelly after the 4-8 season in 2016. Nobody in the right mind fires a coach after a 12-1 season or you won't find anyone who wants the job.

Even then, we're no closer now to winning a meaningful game than we were when Kelly was hired. The Clemson debacle just further proves it.

Brian Kelly is to big games what I am to women's basketball, and I have a d**k.

 

[nemeth#5]

I was just showing an example of what made Lou so great, by showing how many great teams he beat and how tough the schedules were.

If I was Jack I would've fired Kelly after the 4-8 season in 2016. Nobody in the right mind fires a coach after a 12-1 season or you won't find anyone who wants the job.

Even then, we're no closer now to winning a meaningful game than we were when Kelly was hired. The Clemson debacle just further proves it.

Brian Kelly is to big games what I am to women's basketball, and I have a d**k.

You really think so? You remember how bad it was? We go 12-1 and get blown out by a very great team (who blew out Alabama).... and you still cry? Who should they of hired in 2016 that you think would of been a better coach?

 

[NDIRISH53]

You're right. He was better than Ara.

And Ara was very good.

To each his own my friend

 

[SIhoosier26]

You really think so? You remember how bad it was? We go 12-1 and get blown out by a very great team (who blew out Alabama).... and you still cry? Who should they of hired in 2016 that you think would of been a better coach?

I want a coach that puts his best foot forward in big games, I'm sick of seeing a flat, uninspired team in big situations. Again, in 10 years Brian Kelly has won 1 game against a top 10 team. I freaking game! No major bowl wins, and not only that they've been embarrassed.
0fer on the road against Stanford/Michigan, (hopefully that changes this year).

There are plenty of coaches that are better and worth a call, for instance David Shaw, Chris Peterson, Kyle Whittingham, Urban Meyer, ect..

All have had more success and are better coaches than big game Brian.

 

[theskibro]

I always say this to lou lovers... was Lou great? Yes. But he was not legendary. Lou wasn’t even in the same breathe as Ara. And Ara wasn’t even in the same class as Leahy & Rockne

Rockne & Leahy
Ara
Lou
Devine & Kelly

Devine and Kelly are in the damn good class, Lou was great, Ara was a legend, and Rockne and Leahy are all timers

I hear you and can’t disagree except that Devine won a natty. I put Kelly below him for that alone

 

[theskibro]

I remember we Irish fans used to complain about playing Michigan and Michigan State to start the season while they played MAC teams to warm up before us.

It sets up good for us this year because we have a bye before we play them and they have to play a night game at Happy Valley--Penn State the week before us.

*** My philosophy is If you have a great football team your schedule is easy.
If your football team sucks your schedule is hard.

I am getting butterflys in my stomach already ! Can't wait for Louisville ! This season is going to be EPIC !!

The Irish are loaded with talent and great coaching and a great trainer--Ballis !! A DYNASTY IN SOUTH BEND !

“My philosophy is If you have a great football team your schedule is easy.
If your football team sucks your schedule is hard.”
Well I agree with this and I don’t

We had a great team in 93 and still struggled against Air Force and then of corse, BC. A great team is still made up of 18 year old kids with exams and distractions. Look at Clemson this past year. They almost lost a game to Syracuse

Great teams can have off days. It’s human

Great teams can also have refs who are out to get them like our 63 team against USC and our 2015 team against FSU and ref Shea

 

[BodiTheGreat]

“My philosophy is If you have a great football team your schedule is easy.
If your football team sucks your schedule is hard.”
Well I agree with this and I don’t

We had a great team in 93 and still struggled against Air Force and then of corse, BC. A great team is still made up of 18 year old kids with exams and distractions. Look at Clemson this past year. They almost lost a game to Syracuse

Great teams can have off days. It’s human

Great teams can also have refs who are out to get them like our 63 team against USC and our 2015 team against FSU and ref Shea

This years Irish team (2019) would take the 93 team to the woodshed !! We have way better athletes and stronger tougher players thanks to BALLIS !!

 

[BodiTheGreat]

I agreed with most of your post until you said that the Irish had great coaching. They have decent coaching but I'm not calling Brian Kelly great until he shows up in a big game. Not to mention he's 0fer at Stanford and Michigan. If he's "great" he needs to start showing it.

Kelly has hired GREAT assistants who will be legends in the future ! He has seen the light after 16 and has the Irish ready for a Championship ! One of many to come ! DYNASTY !

 

[BodiTheGreat]

My most favorite game hands down
Go irish

I agree DIP ! I put Michigan as our top rival ! Always classic fights to the end ! ND usc games are mostly yawners either way !

 

[deadirishpoet]

I was just showing an example of what made Lou so great, by showing how many great teams he beat and how tough the schedules were.

If I was Jack I would've fired Kelly after the 4-8 season in 2016. Nobody in the right mind fires a coach after a 12-1 season or you won't find anyone who wants the job.

Even then, we're no closer now to winning a meaningful game than we were when Kelly was hired. The Clemson debacle just further proves it.

Brian Kelly is to big games what I am to women's basketball, and I have a d**k.

To be fair Clemson was a beast last season.

 

[deadirishpoet]

I agree DIP ! I put Michigan as our top rival ! Always classic fights to the end ! ND usc games are mostly yawners either way !

This deserve 1000 likes

 

[tbonesays]

I don’t see people putting Lou down. Everyone including myself loves him, but I don’t think he’s on Ara’s level

you'd have to be real specific on the comparisons. I know Lou turned 6 different colleges into winners. A couple just needed rebuilding, others are historical doormats. Ara got NW winning records, I'm not sure about what else.

 

[nemeth#5]

I want a coach that puts his best foot forward in big games, I'm sick of seeing a flat, uninspired team in big situations. Again, in 10 years Brian Kelly has won 1 game against a top 10 team. I freaking game! No major bowl wins, and not only that they've been embarrassed.
0fer on the road against Stanford/Michigan, (hopefully that changes this year).

There are plenty of coaches that are better and worth a call, for instance David Shaw, Chris Peterson, Kyle Whittingham, Urban Meyer, ect..

All have had more success and are better coaches than big game Brian.

Ok, so ND had a chance to hire the listed coach's after 2016?

 

[SIhoosier26]

Ok, so ND had a chance to hire the listed coach's after 2016?

3 of the 4 but considering Urban Meyer at one point called Notre Dame his dream job it would have been worth a call.

It doesn't matter though, were you willing to accept 4-8 rather than take a chance?

 

[nemeth#5]

3 of the 4 but considering Urban Meyer at one point called Notre Dame his dream job it would have been worth a call.

It doesn't matter though, were you willing to accept 4-8 rather than take a chance?

No, I would of looked at the market and decided if we could do better.... obviously we couldnt (although you somehow think/know ND could of gotten 3 other coaches).... and I would of told BK he has one year to turn it around..... which he did.

You are just another negative nancy that does nothing but b*tch and moan without offering a solution.

 

[TDIrish27]

3 of the 4 but considering Urban Meyer at one point called Notre Dame his dream job it would have been worth a call.

It doesn't matter though, were you willing to accept 4-8 rather than take a chance?

The whole Zach Smith deal exposed Urban .

Left Florida when he saw beatings on the Horizon and knew he couldn't handle it.

Great coach but not a fit here-----perfect for the Trojans .

 

[SIhoosier26]

No, I would of looked at the market and decided if we could do better.... obviously we couldnt (although you somehow think/know ND could of gotten 3 other coaches).... and I would of told BK he has one year to turn it around..... which he did.

You are just another negative nancy that does nothing but b*tch and moan without offering a solution.

I offered you a solution, fire Kelly and get a coach that can win a meaningful game. We are all still waiting for that meaningful win, maybe next year.

 

[nemeth#5]

I offered you a solution, fire Kelly and get a coach that can win a meaningful game. We are all still waiting for that meaningful win, maybe next year.

I guess "meaningful" is up to eye of the beholder. I would consider the Michigan game last year meaningful.... same for Oklahoma and Stanford in 2012..... several USC wins were very meaningful to me.... especially the one with Robert Hughes..... I think people like you will always keep changing the definition so you have a reason to cry and b*tch.

 

[SIhoosier26]

I guess "meaningful" is up to eye of the beholder. I would consider the Michigan game last year meaningful.... same for Oklahoma and Stanford in 2012..... several USC wins were very meaningful to me.... especially the one with Robert Hughes..... I think people like you will always keep changing the definition so you have a reason to cry and b*tch.

Brian Kelly is 3-7 against Stanford and ofer against Michigan/Stanford in the road. 0 major bowl wins and has just 1 win over a team that finished in the top10 in his decade here.

If that's acceptable for you at one of the most prestigious programs of all time than we are never going to agree. BK has had his moments but he's far from being above criticism at this point. 3 of the coaches I named (Whittingham, Peterson, Shaw) have all done more with less talent.

 

[nemeth#5]

Brian Kelly is 3-7 against Stanford and ofer against Michigan/Stanford in the road. 0 major bowl wins and has just 1 win over a team that finished in the top10 in his decade here.

If that's acceptable for you at one of the most prestigious programs of all time than we are never going to agree. BK has had his moments but he's far from being above criticism at this point. 3 of the coaches I named (Whittingham, Peterson, Shaw) have all done more with less talent.

So we would be better off with those coaches that you think we could just go and hire tomorrow? What makes you so confident in that..... ? Grass aint always greener. Dont forget we went 12-1 last year..... quit using 2016 as an excuse to hear yourself b*tch.

 

[SIhoosier26]

So we would be better off with those coaches that you think we could just go and hire tomorrow? What makes you so confident in that..... ? Grass aint always greener. Dont forget we went 12-1 last year..... quit using 2016 as an excuse to hear yourself b*tch.

You asked me for examples so I gave you some examples, Whittingham would walk to Notre Dame and you know it.

Either way we aren't going to agree so hopefully Brian Kelly finally breaks through this year and proves me wrong. Nobody roots harder for the Irish every year than I do.

Notre Dame has 3 key games this year that can solidify the program (@Michigan,@Stanford,@Georgia) let's hope Brian Kelly can start winning some of them. They should have plenty of talent.