Ian Book's Senior Season

[francade]

“i clearly said against "quality defenses ".”

Clemson wasn’t just a quality defense, they were one of the better front sevens we’ve seen in a while, but I’d still say hinging your opinion on one game against a bad matchup full of first round draft picks is no barometer.

 

[Get Nasty]

putting Tom Brady in a discussion about QB play with Ian Book is absurd. The only true thing they have in common is they are both caucasian and both breathe oxygen. That's where the comparisons end.

And falsifying Tom Brady stats.... absurd

 

[Patrirish]

This is 100% fake news and a lie. Brady did not complete only 9% of passes 20 yards or more and only 1% of passes over 40 yards in ANY SEASON SINCE HE WAS 14!

The worst in the league last year was San Darnold around 20%. You had 5-10 nfl QBs over 50% with goff on target 67% on throws over 20 yards.

Lets look at these passes

USC was a 2 yard swing pass to TJ
SYR was a awesome 20 yard throw hitting Mack in stride
NU was an actual deep pass to Young
Navy was a 5 yard crossing route to Austin
Pitt was a great throw downfield to Boykin
VT Great throw downfield
Wake was a bubble screen behind LOS to Young
You forgot about the short mis direction throw to mack vs stanford for 35 as his long pass.

Yes he threw a couple good long passes downfield last year, but not many.

In 2018 Tom Brady completed 53 passes of 20 or more yards.
He attempted 570 passes, that’s 9 %.
He completed 8 passes of 40 yards or more, that’s 1 %.

That’s neither “fake” news or a “lie”, those stats are right from an NFL website that provides his career stats year by year. Feel free to look it up for yourselves.

That you and echowaker are in denial is your problem.
That echowaker doesn’t understand the significance of those statistics is his problem.

It illustrates that your obsession with the long ball is very misguided.

570 attempts in 16 games is approximately 36 attempts per game.

With a 65.8 % completion percentage that’s 23 completions per game.

9 % = 3 passes per game of 20 or more yards

1 % = less than 1 pass per per game of 40 or more yards per game.

Hence your fixation on Ian Book and the lack of long ball production is grossly misguided and a 39 % completion percentage on passes of 20 yards or more is very good.

Stats don’t lie!

 

[Get Nasty]

In 2018 Tom Brady completed 53 passes of 20 or more yards.
He attempted 570 passes, that’s 9 %.
He completed 8 passes of 40 yards or more, that’s 1 %.

That’s neither “fake” news or a “lie”, those stats are right from an NFL website that provides his career stats year by year. Feel free to look it up for yourselves.

That you and echowaker are in denial is your problem.
That echowaker doesn’t understand the significance of those statistics is his problem.

It illustrates that your obsession with the long ball is very misguided.

570 attempts in 16 games is approximately 36 attempts per game.

With a 65.8 % completion percentage that’s 23 completions per game.

9 % = 3 passes per game of 20 or more yards

1 % = less than 1 pass per per game of 40 or more yards per game.

Hence your fixation on Ian Book and the lack of long ball production is grossly misguided and a 39 % completion percentage on passes of 20 yards or more is very good.

Stats don’t lie!

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Is this a serious post?

You think all 570 passes were over 20 yards?

Again the lowest in the nfl last year completing passes thrown over 20 yards was around 20%, and Brady wasn’t the lowest.

So by your math Tom Brady is 50 for 570 on throws over 20 yards and he’s 6 for 570 on throws over 4 yards.

Wow, just wow.


Dumb post of the year award! Wow

 

[Patrirish]

Here’s a significant stat, not specific to Ian Book, but significant in terms of offense, offensive stats and offensive production.

When ND played Navy in 2016, ND only had SIX (6) possessions.
SIX (6) possessions !

In 2018 ND threw 32 times per game and completed 21 passes per game.

As a coach, of the 32 attempts per game, how many 20+ yard pass plays would you call per game ?

How many 40+ yard pass plays would you call per game ?

Keep in mind that most passes are thrown from 6 (+/-) yards behind the LOS.

 

[Patrirish]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Is this a serious post?

You think all 570 passes were over 20 yards?

Again the lowest in the nfl last year completing passes thrown over 20 yards was around 20%, and Brady wasn’t the lowest.

So by your math Tom Brady is 50 for 570 on throws over 20 yards and he’s 6 for 570 on throws over 4 yards.

Wow, just wow.


Dumb post of the year award! Wow

What’s dumb is you and your total lack of understanding of my post.

Have someone who knows something about football explain it to you.

 

[Get Nasty]

Yes someone needs to explain it to me because it makes NO sense

 

[Patrirish]

Yes someone needs to explain it to me because it makes NO sense

Well maybe this will help you:

For 2018 the NFL average completion percentage on throws 20 yards or more was 37 %

Book was 39 %

Are you starting to understand. ?

 

[Patrirish]

Yes someone needs to explain it to me because it makes NO sense

Answer my 2 question.

How many 20+ yard pass plays would you call in a game ?

How many 40+ yard pass plays would you call in a game ?

 

[Get Nasty]

Answer my 2 question.

How many 20+ yard pass plays would you call in a game ?

How many 40+ yard pass plays would you call in a game ?

Depends how the defense is playing. Most plays have an explosive option in it, book typically didn’t take that option. The way Ds played book and ND starting the Pitt game and after I would have called a lot.

Practice reports are that he’s struggling still down the field and checking down when there’s open players across the middle downfield.

Starting to slightly get concerned.

 

[francade]

“Starting to get slightly concerned”

Lol. “Starting”?

 

[echowaker]

In 2018 Tom Brady completed 53 passes of 20 or more yards.
He attempted 570 passes, that’s 9 %.
He completed 8 passes of 40 yards or more, that’s 1 %.

That’s neither “fake” news or a “lie”, those stats are right from an NFL website that provides his career stats year by year. Feel free to look it up for yourselves.

That you and echowaker are in denial is your problem.
That echowaker doesn’t understand the significance of those statistics is his problem.

It illustrates that your obsession with the long ball is very misguided.

570 attempts in 16 games is approximately 36 attempts per game.

With a 65.8 % completion percentage that’s 23 completions per game.

9 % = 3 passes per game of 20 or more yards

1 % = less than 1 pass per per game of 40 or more yards per game.

Hence your fixation on Ian Book and the lack of long ball production is grossly misguided and a 39 % completion percentage on passes of 20 yards or more is very good.

Stats don’t lie!

Please, stop it's embarrassing the absurdity of using Tom Brady in a football related discussion about Ian Book. Just stop, it makes you look WAY more foolish than usual. What's next ? Comparing the skill sets of Michael Jordan and V J Beachem ?

 

[stu4don]

If he can get that to the 50-55% range I'd be thrilled. Just enough to hit some plays over the top for touchdowns and the stop opposing secondary's from being able to jam on every down and squat in off coverage.

How deep are we talking? Lets look at NFL stats beyond 20 yards.

Even the best NFL QB's don't have that rate beyond 20, do they? I found an old article about the 2017 season and except to Alex Smith (who was 55%) the other top QB's over 20 yards were in the low 40s.

Maybe our expectations of Book are a bit high?

(Mighty Tom Brady was 37%, Aaron was 36%, Wilson was 35%...)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...hew-stafford-head-top-deepball-throwers-of-17

 

[stu4don]

The kid is 9-1 as a starter! Don't force a shooting guard to play post! Yes, take a few shots but be who you are, as kelly said, "he's not going to get a lot of speeding tix"

 

[Get Nasty]

The kid is 9-1 as a starter! Don't force a shooting guard to play post! Yes, take a few shots but be who you are, as kelly said, "he's not going to get a lot of speeding tix"

Kelly also started in the same answer that he is working on pushing the ball more downfield and he knows he needs to more. No one is asking him to throw it into double coverage. Kelly said you’ll see Nd be more dynamic because they have they skill to do that and they need to to beat the top teams .

 

[Get Nasty]

“Starting to get slightly concerned”

Lol. “Starting”?

I critiqued his play last year and he had all off season to improve, concerned that he hasn’t ala wimbush, kizer, etc etc in their second year starting.

Kelly has mad mention many many times books needs to improve in the pocket, downfield, and over the middle. I’m not making it up. There are no reports that he’s playing great so far. Same people saying wimbush hadn’t improved are saying book hasn’t been doing great downfield or over the middle and scrambling when there’s open receivers downfield.

 

[stu4don]

When talking about Notre Dame graduate transfer Brandon Wimbush, Heupel made it clear Wimbush, in particular, threw the deep ball well. Overall for each quarterback, Heupel wants them to be more consistent with the accuracy of throwing the football.

Still no decision on who is starting down there.

 

[IrishInOntario]

How deep are we talking? Lets look at NFL stats beyond 20 yards.

Even the best NFL QB's don't have that rate beyond 20, do they? I found an old article about the 2017 season and except to Alex Smith (who was 55%) the other top QB's over 20 yards were in the low 40s.

Maybe our expectations of Book are a bit high?

(Mighty Tom Brady was 37%, Aaron was 36%, Wilson was 35%...)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...hew-stafford-head-top-deepball-throwers-of-17

NFL quarterbacks face insanely tight coverage and tiny windows on a level college quarterbacks almost never do. That's one of the reasons the bust rate, among elite level college quarterbacks is so damn high. Playing quarterback in the NFL is legitimately one of the hardest jobs in the world relative to what it takes to be successful at it.

Top end college quarterbacks should be completing deep balls at a higher rate. There are more busted coverages in college. Defenses have near infinitely less time in a week to prepare for your offense. Offensive teams have a preposterously higher advantage at the college level than they do in the NFL because of the talent gap.that's why there are teams averaging 45 ppg in college and pulling their QB's in the third quarters of games, but you'd never see that in the NFL.

It's apples-to-oranges. If Book just completes the downfield throws last year when a defensive player wasn't within 5 yards of his intended receiver, he would have had more than an acceptable completion rate on downfield throws, IMO. That's all I'm looking for this year. I'm not expecting him to turn I to Jimmy Clausen over the course of the year. Just make the easy ones and do what you did last years over 12 regular season games instead of 8, and he'll have a wonderful senior season and Notre Dame will win 10+ games.

 

[francade]

“I critiqued his play last year and he had all off season to improve, concerned that he hasn’t ala wimbush, kizer, etc etc in their second year starting.”

That’s exactly why I laughed at your use of the word ‘starting’. Your posts from the beginning clearly demonstrate you’ve been concerned for a while.

“Kelly has mad mention many many times books needs to improve in the pocket, downfield, and over the middle. I’m not making it up. There are no reports that he’s playing great so far. Same people saying wimbush hadn’t improved are saying book hasn’t been doing great downfield or over the middle and scrambling when there’s open receivers downfield.”

And both kelly and long have both said that he may not have pushed the envelope last season because he may have worried about them “getting mad for putting the ball in jeopardy” & they “had to do what they had to do to win games”. As I’ve said many times, we didn’t throw many deep balls and the few he missed wide open are all the ones some people talk about. He’ll probably prove to be more accurate w/ more attempts and if he doesn’t, I’ll be first in line to say that it’s as big an issue as some of you make it. I believe it will be similar to when some were calling him a turnover machine after only 75 attempts.

 

[Patrirish]

Depends how the defense is playing. Most plays have an explosive option in it, book typically didn’t take that option. The way Ds played book and ND starting the Pitt game and after I would have called a lot.

Practice reports are that he’s struggling still down the field and checking down when there’s open players across the middle downfield.

Starting to slightly get concerned.

Stop avoiding the questions with bogus excuses.

Answer the questions.

How many 20+ yard pass plays would you call in a game.

How many 40+ yard pass plays would you call in a game.

No more weaseling, answer the questions

 

[Patrirish]

Please, stop it's embarrassing the absurdity of using Tom Brady in a football related discussion about Ian Book. Just stop, it makes you look WAY more foolish than usual. What's next ? Comparing the skill sets of Michael Jordan and V J Beachem ?

“Foolish” ?

What’s “foolish” is your inability to understand the relevance of the statistics, including the league statistics on the completion percentage of passes of 20 yards or more....... 37 %.

You do recall that Book was criticized for only completing 39 % of passes of 20 yards or more, .....don’t you ?

When it comes to football, you’re not as knowledgeable and sophisticated as you posture and present yourself to be.

 

[Patrirish]

Depends how the defense is playing. Most plays have an explosive option in it, book typically didn’t take that option. The way Ds played book and ND starting the Pitt game and after I would have called a lot.

Practice reports are that he’s struggling still down the field and checking down when there’s open players across the middle downfield.

Starting to slightly get concerned.

Quantify “a lot”

And to avoid more of your weaseling let’s be forward thinking, let’s present the question in the context of this season and use 32 passing attempts per game as the benchmark.

How many pass plays of 20+ yards would you call ? AND
How many pass plays of 40+ yards would you call ?

Enlighten us with the numbers !

Not sure if you knew it but John Huarte wasn’t a great QB in practice.

 

[mirer03]

“Foolish” ?

What’s “foolish” is your inability to understand the relevance of the statistics, including the league statistics on the completion percentage of passes of 20 yards or more....... 37 %.

You do recall that Book was criticized for only completing 39 % of passes of 20 yards or more, .....don’t you ?

When it comes to football, you’re not as knowledgeable and sophisticated as you posture and present yourself to be.

You need to let this one go. Everyone including book knows he has to pass better down field. EVERYONE. He hangs the ball up, mistimes his throw, and underthrows constantly. Even some of his completions are bail outs by boykin and fink.

 

[Get Nasty]

Stop avoiding the questions with bogus excuses.

Answer the questions.

How many 20+ yard pass plays would you call in a game.

How many 40+ yard pass plays would you call in a game.

No more weaseling, answer the questions

Ha.... you keep showing your lack of football knowledge.

Passing plays have multiple options. You don’t call a “20” or “40” yard play, they may have some deeper first options but there’s always multiple other options. We have a lot more downfield options last year. Book just decided to check down more and take the safest option. There were guys running open downfield a lot that were missed last year.

ND doesn’t need to call more of those plays, they need book to read them better, stay in the pocket longer, and make more of those throws especially over the middle.

No excuse for ND to not connect on 3 passes over 20 yards per game. Let me clarify, those are passes caught 20 yards downfield, not swing passes that have YAC of over 20 yards.

 

[Get Nasty]

“Foolish” ?

What’s “foolish” is your inability to understand the relevance of the statistics, including the league statistics on the completion percentage of passes of 20 yards or more....... 37 %.

You do recall that Book was criticized for only completing 39 % of passes of 20 yards or more, .....don’t you ?

When it comes to football, you’re not as knowledgeable and sophisticated as you posture and present yourself to be.

Can you post a link showing book completed 39% of passes downfield? I don’t trust your numbers as I’ve already proven your Tom Brady numbers are Fake News.

 

[francade]

“He hangs the ball up, mistimes his throw, and underthrows constantly. Even some of his completions are bail outs by boykin and fink.”

Another over the top BS post on the subject. Yes, he could’ve hit those 3-4 he missed wide open but this description of him is flat out wrong. Please cite the plays where boykin & finke “bailed him out” and the “constant underthrows”. That’s made up BS.

 

[echowaker]

“Foolish” ?

What’s “foolish” is your inability to understand the relevance of the statistics, including the league statistics on the completion percentage of passes of 20 yards or more....... 37 %.

You do recall that Book was criticized for only completing 39 % of passes of 20 yards or more, .....don’t you ?

When it comes to football, you’re not as knowledgeable and sophisticated as you posture and present yourself to be.

nothing more easily skewed than statistics. a fan with even the most pedestrian football knowledge understands that. guess you're not at that level yet. as IIO said comparing the NFL to college is apples to oranges. the staff themselves have said they need to throw the ball downfield more efficiently. capish ?

 

[Get Nasty]

nothing more easily skewed than statistics. a fan with even the most pedestrian football knowledge understands that. guess you're not at that level yet. as IIO said comparing the NFL to college is apples to oranges. the staff themselves have said they need to throw the ball downfield more efficiently. capish ?

The key is for ND coaches to stop calling the check down plays, clearly they are calling too many check down plays as the first option (sarcasm).

Book is a good QB, ND needs him to be great to have a shot to win it all. To be great he need to improve pocket presence and push the ball downfield more, all things the coaches have talked about over and over this off season. Book throws such an easy catch-able ball. We need to be able to create explosive scores against great teams, that's the only way to beat them. You aren't going to march down 10-15 play drives on them with any consistency.

I remember being at the V tech game last year. We scored a bunch, but I thought book made some great throws but left SOOOO much on the field. We had WRs running wide open downfield all game long, we should have scored 400 points. The back end of Vtechs secondary was clueless that game.

 

[Patrirish]

nothing more easily skewed than statistics. a fan with even the most pedestrian football knowledge understands that. guess you're not at that level yet. as IIO said comparing the NFL to college is apples to oranges. the staff themselves have said they need to throw the ball downfield more efficiently. capish ?

You can’t skew an abundance of interrelated statistics.

You and “Get Nasty” just don’t have the ability to connect all of the data points.

Throw the ball downfield with more proficiency than the NFL ?

“Get Nasty” seems incapable of defining how many 20+ and 40+ yard pass plays should be called in a game, so i’ll ask you the same question.

How many of each ?

 

[Patrirish]

Ha.... you keep showing your lack of football knowledge.

Passing plays have multiple options. You don’t call a “20” or “40” yard play, they may have some deeper first options but there’s always multiple other options. We have a lot more downfield options last year. Book just decided to check down more and take the safest option. There were guys running open downfield a lot that were missed last year.

ND doesn’t need to call more of those plays, they need book to read them better, stay in the pocket longer, and make more of those throws especially over the middle.

No excuse for ND to not connect on 3 passes over 20 yards per game. Let me clarify, those are passes caught 20 yards downfield, not swing passes that have YAC of over 20 yards.

Stop dodging the question!

You keep complaining about the lack of the long ball but never quantify how many times long ball plays should be called.

Answer the question.

Quantify the number of plays !

 

[Patrirish]

Can you post a link showing book completed 39% of passes downfield? I don’t trust your numbers as I’ve already proven your Tom Brady numbers are Fake News.

My Tom Brady numbers are very accurate, you just don’t know how to read them. As I indicated, your lack of understanding of football is considerable.

You didn’t question 39 % when someone else posted it.

Ask Mirer03 !

 

[Get Nasty]

My Tom Brady numbers are very accurate, you just don’t know how to read them. As I indicated, your lack of understanding of football is considerable.

You didn’t question 39 % when someone else posted it.

Ask Mirer03 !

I didn't know who posted the 39%...

Explain to me how book is 39% and Tom Brady is 9%?

 

[Get Nasty]

Stop dodging the question!

You keep complaining about the lack of the long ball but never quantify how many times long ball plays should be called.

Answer the question.

Quantify the number of plays !

If there is 30 pass plays called. 25 of them should have at least one component of it going down the field at least 20 yards.

That doesn't mean the first option is a 20 yard plus throw, but in college ball, you need to have explosive opportunities on almost every play. You never know when the defense is going to have a bust, and they do happen frequently.

 

[d1042]

In 2019 Book will throw for 5000 yrds and 50 Td’s, in the regular season. Write that down!
He will also grow 3 inches.

 

[Get Nasty]

In 2019 Book will throw for 5000 yrds and 50 Td’s, in the regular season. Write that down!
He will also grow 3 inches.

Patrick Mahomes?

 

[Get Nasty]

You can’t skew an abundance of interrelated statistics.

You and “Get Nasty” just don’t have the ability to connect all of the data points.

Throw the ball downfield with more proficiency than the NFL ?

“Get Nasty” seems incapable of defining how many 20+ and 40+ yard pass plays should be called in a game, so i’ll ask you the same question.

How many of each ?

You are an offensive genius.

What data points are we not connecting? The fact that you think Tom Brady only completes 9% of his throws over 20 yards? Or 1 % of his throws over 40 yards? Yep, I can't connect those data points, you know why, because they are fake/false/not true/disproved/etc.

I think you fail to realize there are multiple options to every pass play, heck there's run options built into pass plays and pass options built into run plays. I'll help you out.

You don't have to call any more or less plays than the coaches are already calling downfield. There are players running routes downfield almost every pass play. It's improving books pre and post snap reads and confidence to throw the ball downfield. Also working on improving pocket presence allowing downfield plays to develop.

Coaches would love to have 10 yard wide open receivers all game long, but defenses tend to take away some easy throws. That was the formula against book last year during and after the pitt game. Teams were playing tight up front coverage and forcing him to throw it downfield. He just didn't perform well in that regard, and it showed the most vs clemson when we had receivers running open downfield all first half.

 

[Patrirish]

I didn't know who posted the 39%...

Explain to me how book is 39% and Tom Brady is 9%?

Have someone explain the stats to you as you obviously don’t understand them

 

[Patrirish]

You are an offensive genius.

What data points are we not connecting? The fact that you think Tom Brady only completes 9% of his throws over 20 yards? Or 1 % of his throws over 40 yards? Yep, I can't connect those data points, you know why, because they are fake/false/not true/disproved/etc.

I think you fail to realize there are multiple options to every pass play, heck there's run options built into pass plays and pass options built into run plays. I'll help you out.

You don't have to call any more or less plays than the coaches are already calling downfield. There are players running routes downfield almost every pass play. It's improving books pre and post snap reads and confidence to throw the ball downfield. Also working on improving pocket presence allowing downfield plays to develop.

Coaches would love to have 10 yard wide open receivers all game long, but defenses tend to take away some easy throws. That was the formula against book last year during and after the pitt game. Teams were playing tight up front coverage and forcing him to throw it downfield. He just didn't perform well in that regard, and it showed the most vs clemson when we had receivers running open downfield all first half.

You have zero comprehension when it comes to understanding statistics.

Now tell us, how many 20+ yard pass plays should be called in a game, then tell us how many 40+ yard pass plays should be called in a game.

It’s obvious that your repeated refusal to address and answer those two questions clearly indicates that you have little to know understanding of football.

 

[Patrirish]

If there is 30 pass plays called. 25 of them should have at least one component of it going down the field at least 20 yards.

That doesn't mean the first option is a 20 yard plus throw, but in college ball, you need to have explosive opportunities on almost every play. You never know when the defense is going to have a bust, and they do happen frequently.

Thanks

You’ve now convinced me that you know next to nothing about football, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t continue to discuss ND football.

 

[Patrirish]

Get Nasty,

I’m going to try to help you understand statistics.

If Brady attempts 570 passes and completes 53 of them for 20 yards or more, what’s his completion percentage on passes of 20 yards or more ?

And if he completes 8 of those 570 attempts for 40 or more yards, what’s his completion percentage for passes 40 yards or more ?

Answer 9 % and about 1/3 of 1 percent.

What does that tell you and all of the other football geniuses about your constant clamoring for the long ball.

Now let me provide some additional statistics from the NFL.
And, the reason I’m citing the NFL is because they record these statistics whereas I’m not sure that the NCAA does.

How long does it take a receiver to run a 40 yard route ?

How much time does a QB have before he has to release the ball ?

Do you think that there’s a correlation between those two stats ?