Ian Book's Senior Season

[IrishInOntario]

You mean like bullshit about going on vacations that nobody gives a **** about? You mean like lacing posts patting one self on the back from previous work giving off the perception of containing inside info about the recruiting trail?

Not that?

Then you mean like switching 180 degrees and suddenly kissing ass of an ass that doesn't exist?

Why is it that I don't post bullshit ripping apart our players before they even get a chance?

Reality. I actually give said player and coach a chance to prove themselves.

I post on facts right before our very eyes.

I don't need to issue half assed yet condescending board apologies because of posts that are false.

Everyone knows exactly where I'm coming from. There is no mystery.
I think the coaches suck. Performance proven.

Chase thinks recruiting sucks. He might be in love with the silly S+P+W+XY rating but God damn it he sticks to his guns.

I've much more respect for anyone who sticks to what they believe than flip flopping every other month.

The ND football world according to you...
Book hasn't taken a meaningful snap but is nothing but gristle. He can't ever be a good QB. He's just an afterthought.

Now... it's Book will have a season for the ages. He'll be the best thing in a decade. Just an incredible season lies ahead for him.

Long...you say he calls plays from the cracker box in so many words. He's juvenile. Can't call a game to save his life. 3 yard passing gane over and over.

Now... suddenly Long is a good season away from being some hot head coaching commodity. All without playing any games mind you since the last anemic showing that you ripped him apart over.

Oh and I almost forgot the really cool one. Telling the board all about planning your vacations and things are just great in your world. After your morning toast and jog I think it was. LOL


P.s.
Somethimg I take a little more personally...

You want to rip Brian Kelly and team to shreds for having a tough go of it against Navy. The problem is you spent more evergy actually making fun of Navy and how on earth can we "only" perform that much against the lowly Midshipmen.

If you really are a ND fan then you'd know we don't ever disrespect the academies. Not ever. We hope we beat them of course but we only need 1 more point.

Thx,
Appreciate it,
Have a great day

Lol, I didn't say half those things, particularly the ones about Chip Long lol. Do I think he's called at bad game at times in his career. Yep? We all have. You greatly overstate my opinions from 2 years ago of Ian Book, simply to over sensationalize your ridiculous post.

I do get my share of "inside info" on recruiting. You don't have to like it and it's obvious you don't, but I could care less about your feelings.

As for Ian Book... Someday you'll learn that you're not going to be right about everything in life. The ability to own that and move on is called growth. Then again, in your mind all you do is spit "facts" so you're never going to have to worry about making mistakes, because you've made it. Congrats man!

As for my vacations, lol, so what that I like to travel and that I've worked hard and made the kind of money that affords me the opportunity? Don't participate in the conversation if you don't want to. Don't read it if you don't like what's being said. I've had plenty of good conversations on this board about travels around the world with some of the posters. I'm going to just keep on doing that and you can keep seething over nothing.

I'll save you the future rant and put you on ignore so there is one less person for you to converse with. I'd much rather watch the pool of ears in your life continue to shrink so you can wallow in your lonely misery and hatred for a freaking football coach.

The fact that you take anything "personally" about ND football tells me all I need to know you. Keep being awesome man lol

Thx,
Appreciate it,
Have a great day

 

[Get Nasty]

So back to the topic of books improvement.

Other than the Georgia game performance, what are you looking to hear and see (videos) over the next 4 weeks to give you confidence in books improvement with Pocket presence and downfield throws?

For me I need to not see any more clips like the 1:35 mark here of the first practice. https://und.com/ndfootball-brian-kelly-interview-8-5-19/

I'd like to hear kmet is lighting it over the MIDDLE.

I'd like to hear book is hanging in the pocket and making throws downfield just before getting touched.

 

[hfhmilkman]

I'm not 88, but that is just factually inaccurate with regards to Kelly. Long hasn't lost. But kelly has lost to many man inferior teams while coaching at ND. Look at the entire 2016 season.

With that said, Kelly has improved drastically and is truly building a program of excellence, and long is a part of that.

I don't love long, but he shows flashes of brilliance, with spells of ineptitude.

The failure of 2016 was the defense not the offense. BK made the correct move by bringing in a new Dcoordinator.

 

[IrishInOntario]

So back to the topic of books improvement.

Other than the Georgia game performance, what are you looking to hear and see (videos) over the next 4 weeks to give you confidence in books improvement with Pocket presence and downfield throws?

For me I need to not see any more clips like the 1:35 mark here of the first practice. https://und.com/ndfootball-brian-kelly-interview-8-5-19/

I'd like to hear kmet is lighting it over the MIDDLE.

I'd like to hear book is hanging in the pocket and making throws downfield just before getting touched.

I don't think Ian's ever going to be spectacular at hitting a guy in stride down field, so I'd just start with this...

1. Hang the deep ball for Chase Claypool and let your 6'4, 230lb receiver out muscle a 5'11, 190lb corner in the air. Ian is excellent throwing back shoulder, but there is nothing wrong with throwing a deep ball 40 yards with some air under it and letting your guy adjust for it downfield. Jimmy Clausen was the best deep ball thrower ND's had in 25+ years and he put a ton of air on the ball. Some of the best downfield completions he ever had involved Tate and the other receivers going up a ball that was intentionally under thrown. When you get cover 1 and you see the safety bail the field on the snap, or you force him that way with your eyes, throw the go route and don't over throw it. Give your receiver a chance to post up the defender. I want to see ND do that 4-5 times per game. It puts enormous stress on the defender, causes him to track the ball and make big adjustments while the ball is in the air and, ultimately, a lot of times you can draw a PI in modern football, where the defender is very limited in what he's allowed to get away with while fighting for positioning. It also causes corners to back off in Cover 1 situations and play off the ball, opening up more lanes for the stop routes, slant routes and back shoulder stuff that Ian is comfortable with... Throw is up, keep it in bounds and trust your 6'4 receiver who 10lbs lighter than your average college tight end.

2. He has to start hitting the easy double move throws. The ones he missed to Finke last year were inexcusable for high school quarterback, let alone the QB at Notre Dame. You can't dial those up all game long, you might only get one a game, where you have the defense fooled. Chip Long dialed them up perfectly at Virginia Tech and USC last year, and you're going to see them again this year. Ian can't get too excited when he sees a guy that open and he doesn't need to sail that ball. Throw is on a rope if it's easier, but that throws has to be made. Guys like Finke, Keys and Lenzy have the kind of quicks that get you that opportunity just about every game after you've lulled the defense to sleep with the short and intermediate stuff. They have to be capitalized on when you get the opportunity.

3. In and out breaking routes are also key. Setting up opportunities to run post concepts and corners concepts. Those routes tend to be easier for quarterbacks that struggle with their deep ball landmarks, to hit. A lot of guys struggle with the touch needed to throw the go route and the fade route. Some it's natural and for others, repeating the same release over and over is really difficult. Post routes and corner routes give you more field to throw to and they give you a profile of the player you're throwing to as he breaks. Personally, I much preferred them to the straighter deep routes when I was quarterbacking. They were easier throws to profile and to mentally triangulate. I was much more confident in them. I thought Ian's best deep balls last year were a post route to Boykin late in the Pitt game that sealed the win and the corner beautiful corner router to Finke vs USC for a touchdown at the end of the first half. If he's struggling with the straight routes, incorporate more routes with a break.

4. Lastly, as you alluded to, the tight end in the middle of the field has to be an option. When you have a couple 6'5, big bodied guys, you can't be afraid to let them go up and play it at times. Sometimes they're going to take a shot in the back, but at that position it's expected. Golson did a nice job of that with Tyler Eifert. He'd float ball up down the seem with some zip, far enough away from the safety that he just can't wait on it, and he'd let Tyler go up, pull it down and the kid knew he was going to take a shot. You hold on though and it's a 25-30 yard gain. It's not something I want to see constantly because the middle of the field is often interception city, but a few time per game, in single high safety looks, over cover 2 looks where you notice the safety to the field is bailing hard at the snap to get outside the field receiver, let it rip.

I'd start there... Ian was on pace for 3700+ yards passing and 30+ TD's last year, as an average deep ball guy. If he can improve that downfield ability and at and if his receivers and tight ends can break some freaking tackles in space in one on one situations, those numbers are completely attainable in a healthy season. Hence my comparison to Brady Quinn's 2005 season (arguably the best an ND QB has had since I can't ever remember), if, and it's a big if, he can stay healthy for all 12 games and the bowl game.

 

[stu4don]

Nice to see McKinley go up and take the ball in that video. Reminded me of Boykin.

 

[88ND]

Lol, I didn't say half those things, particularly the ones about Chip Long lol. Do I think he's called at bad game at times in his career. Yep? We all have. You greatly overstate my opinions from 2 years ago of Ian Book, simply to over sensationalize your ridiculous post.

I do get my share of "inside info" on recruiting. You don't have to like it and it's obvious you don't, but I could care less about your feelings.

As for Ian Book... Someday you'll learn that you're not going to be right about everything in life. The ability to own that and move on is called growth. Then again, in your mind all you do is spit "facts" so you're never going to have to worry about making mistakes, because you've made it. Congrats man!

As for my vacations, lol, so what that I like to travel and that I've worked hard and made the kind of money that affords me the opportunity? Don't participate in the conversation if you don't want to. Don't read it if you don't like what's being said. I've had plenty of good conversations on this board about travels around the world with some of the posters. I'm going to just keep on doing that and you can keep seething over nothing.

I'll save you the future rant and put you on ignore so there is one less person for you to converse with. I'd much rather watch the pool of ears in your life continue to shrink so you can wallow in your lonely misery and hatred for a freaking football coach.

The fact that you take anything "personally" about ND football tells me all I need to know you. Keep being awesome man lol

Thx,
Appreciate it,
Have a great day

Hilarious...

Someone calls you out on your bullshit and you say...I'll get em. I'll hit ignore.

I paraphrase your comments and you say...oh my dear lord I didn't say something so awful about a player or coach.

Well no shit. It's a figure of speech and I clearly stated I wasn't digging up your exact comments to quote you exactly.

The above would constitute you reading and getting what I had to say. Instead you will piss and moan sarcastically that it wasn't your exact quotes.

BTW Mr. Condescending from Ontario...

The ONLY thing I take personally from your horseshit is the disrespect toward the players of OUR service academies.

Has nothing to do with ND football and everything to do with having just two ounces of class.

Class that your foot inserting in mouth obliterates until the next month you just walk back all your immature comments.

If you put me on ignore I applaud that...but I'd be willing to bet you just can't help yourself.

 

[greengael]

I don't think Ian's ever going to be spectacular at hitting a guy in stride down field, so I'd just start with this...

1. Hang the deep ball for Chase Claypool and let your 6'4, 230lb receiver out muscle a 5'11, 190lb corner in the air. Ian is excellent throwing back shoulder, but there is nothing wrong with throwing a deep ball 40 yards with some air under it and letting your guy adjust for it downfield. Jimmy Clausen was the best deep ball thrower ND's had in 25+ years and he put a ton of air on the ball. Some of the best downfield completions he ever had involved Tate and the other receivers going up a ball that was intentionally under thrown. When you get cover 1 and you see the safety bail the field on the snap, or you force him that way with your eyes, throw the go route and don't over throw it. Give your receiver a chance to post up the defender. I want to see ND do that 4-5 times per game. It puts enormous stress on the defender, causes him to track the ball and make big adjustments while the ball is in the air and, ultimately, a lot of times you can draw a PI in modern football, where the defender is very limited in what he's allowed to get away with while fighting for positioning. It also causes corners to back off in Cover 1 situations and play off the ball, opening up more lanes for the stop routes, slant routes and back shoulder stuff that Ian is comfortable with... Throw is up, keep it in bounds and trust your 6'4 receiver who 10lbs lighter than your average college tight end.

2. He has to start hitting the easy double move throws. The ones he missed to Finke last year were inexcusable for high school quarterback, let alone the QB at Notre Dame. You can't dial those up all game long, you might only get one a game, where you have the defense fooled. Chip Long dialed them up perfectly at Virginia Tech and USC last year, and you're going to see them again this year. Ian can't get too excited when he sees a guy that open and he doesn't need to sail that ball. Throw is on a rope if it's easier, but that throws has to be made. Guys like Finke, Keys and Lenzy have the kind of quicks that get you that opportunity just about every game after you've lulled the defense to sleep with the short and intermediate stuff. They have to be capitalized on when you get the opportunity.

3. In and out breaking routes are also key. Setting up opportunities to run post concepts and corners concepts. Those routes tend to be easier for quarterbacks that struggle with their deep ball landmarks, to hit. A lot of guys struggle with the touch needed to throw the go route and the fade route. Some it's natural and for others, repeating the same release over and over is really difficult. Post routes and corner routes give you more field to throw to and they give you a profile of the player you're throwing to as he breaks. Personally, I much preferred them to the straighter deep routes when I was quarterbacking. They were easier throws to profile and to mentally triangulate. I was much more confident in them. I thought Ian's best deep balls last year were a post route to Boykin late in the Pitt game that sealed the win and the corner beautiful corner router to Finke vs USC for a touchdown at the end of the first half. If he's struggling with the straight routes, incorporate more routes with a break.

4. Lastly, as you alluded to, the tight end in the middle of the field has to be an option. When you have a couple 6'5, big bodied guys, you can't be afraid to let them go up and play it at times. Sometimes they're going to take a shot in the back, but at that position it's expected. Golson did a nice job of that with Tyler Eifert. He'd float ball up down the seem with some zip, far enough away from the safety that he just can't wait on it, and he'd let Tyler go up, pull it down and the kid knew he was going to take a shot. You hold on though and it's a 25-30 yard gain. It's not something I want to see constantly because the middle of the field is often interception city, but a few time per game, in single high safety looks, over cover 2 looks where you notice the safety to the field is bailing hard at the snap to get outside the field receiver, let it rip.

I'd start there... Ian was on pace for 3700+ yards passing and 30+ TD's last year, as an average deep ball guy. If he can improve that downfield ability and at and if his receivers and tight ends can break some freaking tackles in space in one on one situations, those numbers are completely attainable in a healthy season. Hence my comparison to Brady Quinn's 2005 season (arguably the best an ND QB has had since I can't ever remember), if, and it's a big if, he can stay healthy for all 12 games and the bowl game.

I see very little has changed around here!

 

[francade]

Reading certain posters write about book, you’d think he had struggled through a pedestrian season. That’s such a ridiculous position based on his performance but they can’t let it go. Begging him to get better and saying that he’ll never be good at hitting a wr in stride? R u kidding me? I guess this is what the board will have to endure any time there’s an errant throw or a mistake by book. Can’t wait.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Reading certain posters write about book, you’d think he had struggled through a pedestrian season. That’s such a ridiculous position based on his performance but they can’t let it go. Begging him to get better and saying that he’ll never be good at hitting a wr in stride? R u kidding me? I guess this is what the board will have to endure any time there’s an errant throw or a mistake by book. Can’t wait.

Why misrepresent what was actually said if you're referring to my post?

I said that I don't think he'll ever be "spectacular at hitting a guy in stride, downfield"...

And you come back by saying that I stated "he'll never be any good at hitting a wide receiver in stride"...

That's the kind of ludicrous sensationalism that ruins these conversations. I never said that Book "would never be any good". I said I don't think he'll be sensational at hitting the deep ball in stride. In what world are "never any good" and "won't be sensational" in the same realm of conversation? The use of the term "sensational" means he won't be among the best deep ball throwers nationally, IMO. That's a far cry from "will never been any good" suggesting that he can't even be average at it among college quarterbacks.

Secondly, I specified ON DEEP THROWS. You twisted the statement and conviniently left that part out. Never did I say that Ian lacks "in stride accuracy" at the first and second level, which constitutes the majority of his throws. I'm well aware at how accurate Ian in that 5-15 yard range.

Why do we need to sensationalize, embelish and twist people's words simply to bolster your arguments?

I suspect your point was in respect to the first line of my above post, but you purposely, wildly, mischaracterized what I said to further your argument... We can debate the numbers, break down the film, discuss strengths and weaknesses, etc, etc, but why have a conversation if we're just going to put words in other people's mouths?

If you had read the post, you would realize that I actually praised Book for being on pace for a near record setting season at Notre Dame had he played 13 games... I never said his season was "pedestrian". It wasn't Kyler Murray's season, but it was far from pedestrian.

 

[hfhmilkman]

Reading certain posters write about book, you’d think he had struggled through a pedestrian season. That’s such a ridiculous position based on his performance but they can’t let it go. Begging him to get better and saying that he’ll never be good at hitting a wr in stride? R u kidding me? I guess this is what the board will have to endure any time there’s an errant throw or a mistake by book. Can’t wait.

I am not a Book expert but my retort is John Navarre. Navarre still holds the career record for passing yards. The guy was incredible when the Oline gave him plenty of time and our receivers were always open. Yet it was a tail of two cities. In fact with the exception of the 2004 rose bowl where UM was simply overmatched Navarre was directly responsible for every loss in the 2002-2003 season. When I mean directly responsible an obvious misread or an obvious missed throw. The guy had a strong arm that was accurate if he had time to set up. Else it was panic city. So great stats do not make a great QB. I'll take spaghetti armed Michael Taylor any day

 

[Get Nasty]

I don't think Ian's ever going to be spectacular at hitting a guy in stride down field, so I'd just start with this...

1. Hang the deep ball for Chase Claypool and let your 6'4, 230lb receiver out muscle a 5'11, 190lb corner in the air. Ian is excellent throwing back shoulder, but there is nothing wrong with throwing a deep ball 40 yards with some air under it and letting your guy adjust for it downfield. Jimmy Clausen was the best deep ball thrower ND's had in 25+ years and he put a ton of air on the ball. Some of the best downfield completions he ever had involved Tate and the other receivers going up a ball that was intentionally under thrown. When you get cover 1 and you see the safety bail the field on the snap, or you force him that way with your eyes, throw the go route and don't over throw it. Give your receiver a chance to post up the defender. I want to see ND do that 4-5 times per game. It puts enormous stress on the defender, causes him to track the ball and make big adjustments while the ball is in the air and, ultimately, a lot of times you can draw a PI in modern football, where the defender is very limited in what he's allowed to get away with while fighting for positioning. It also causes corners to back off in Cover 1 situations and play off the ball, opening up more lanes for the stop routes, slant routes and back shoulder stuff that Ian is comfortable with... Throw is up, keep it in bounds and trust your 6'4 receiver who 10lbs lighter than your average college tight end.

2. He has to start hitting the easy double move throws. The ones he missed to Finke last year were inexcusable for high school quarterback, let alone the QB at Notre Dame. You can't dial those up all game long, you might only get one a game, where you have the defense fooled. Chip Long dialed them up perfectly at Virginia Tech and USC last year, and you're going to see them again this year. Ian can't get too excited when he sees a guy that open and he doesn't need to sail that ball. Throw is on a rope if it's easier, but that throws has to be made. Guys like Finke, Keys and Lenzy have the kind of quicks that get you that opportunity just about every game after you've lulled the defense to sleep with the short and intermediate stuff. They have to be capitalized on when you get the opportunity.

3. In and out breaking routes are also key. Setting up opportunities to run post concepts and corners concepts. Those routes tend to be easier for quarterbacks that struggle with their deep ball landmarks, to hit. A lot of guys struggle with the touch needed to throw the go route and the fade route. Some it's natural and for others, repeating the same release over and over is really difficult. Post routes and corner routes give you more field to throw to and they give you a profile of the player you're throwing to as he breaks. Personally, I much preferred them to the straighter deep routes when I was quarterbacking. They were easier throws to profile and to mentally triangulate. I was much more confident in them. I thought Ian's best deep balls last year were a post route to Boykin late in the Pitt game that sealed the win and the corner beautiful corner router to Finke vs USC for a touchdown at the end of the first half. If he's struggling with the straight routes, incorporate more routes with a break.

4. Lastly, as you alluded to, the tight end in the middle of the field has to be an option. When you have a couple 6'5, big bodied guys, you can't be afraid to let them go up and play it at times. Sometimes they're going to take a shot in the back, but at that position it's expected. Golson did a nice job of that with Tyler Eifert. He'd float ball up down the seem with some zip, far enough away from the safety that he just can't wait on it, and he'd let Tyler go up, pull it down and the kid knew he was going to take a shot. You hold on though and it's a 25-30 yard gain. It's not something I want to see constantly because the middle of the field is often interception city, but a few time per game, in single high safety looks, over cover 2 looks where you notice the safety to the field is bailing hard at the snap to get outside the field receiver, let it rip.

I'd start there... Ian was on pace for 3700+ yards passing and 30+ TD's last year, as an average deep ball guy. If he can improve that downfield ability and at and if his receivers and tight ends can break some freaking tackles in space in one on one situations, those numbers are completely attainable in a healthy season. Hence my comparison to Brady Quinn's 2005 season (arguably the best an ND QB has had since I can't ever remember), if, and it's a big if, he can stay healthy for all 12 games and the bowl game.

I think having chase on the boundary side you’ll see him break a lot of tackles and or run people over and drag people after the catch. On the field side book did not look there as much because of his not having a great arm. By the time the ball got to chase the defender has time to react, quick throws to chase this year will look similar to the ones thrown to Floyd where Floyd always got extra yards.

 

[francade]

Oh give me a break w/ your “ludicrous sensationalism” crap, Ontario, I wasn’t quoting your post, I was generalizing about some of the knocks that have been put out there in the countless posts about book. But I’d say the same thing about your exact words that you “don't think he'll ever be spectacular at hitting a guy in stride, downfield” too. I’d say it’s premature to come to that conclusion based on about 20 or so attempts at the deep ball.

As for you giving book praise, you act as though you’re doing him a favor by praising his season. His play earned the praise. You’re not going out on any limb.


As for the deep ball, the easy misses are more noticeable than ones that connect. Example: what’s mentioned more on this board? The miss to finke on the double move at va tech or the dime deep ball that he threw to finke in that same game? He had three perfect deep balls at nwstrn (Boykin td, young td & out of his own end zone to finke). That’s three that I saw on the extended highlights only from that game. Pitt game winner to Boykin. USC deep corner to finke. Two at wake. Claypool cuse game. Navy Boykin. At least a dozen to 20 back shoulders. Some here have claimed that we only had 3-4 all season. Lol. It’s outlandish, nit-pickingly overly dissecting the situation and exaggerating to bolster their side of the argument against book and/or our offense of 3 yd curls. Please, watch the games again. We were more than that, but the 3-4 bad misses are all some here remember. That’s selective memory, imo.

 

[francade]

“I am not a Book expert but my retort is John Navarre. Navarre still holds the career record for passing yards. The guy was incredible when the Oline gave him plenty of time and our receivers were always open. Yet it was a tail of two cities. In fact with the exception of the 2004 rose bowl where UM was simply overmatched Navarre was directly responsible for every loss in the 2002-2003 season. When I mean directly responsible an obvious misread or an obvious missed throw. The guy had a strong arm that was accurate if he had time to set up. Else it was panic city. So great stats do not make a great QB. I'll take spaghetti armed Michael Taylor any day”

Ian book didn’t “just have great stats”. He made countless big plays w/ his feet and his arm in every game he played until the Clemson buzzsaw.

 

[IrishInOntario]

“I am not a Book expert but my retort is John Navarre. Navarre still holds the career record for passing yards. The guy was incredible when the Oline gave him plenty of time and our receivers were always open. Yet it was a tail of two cities. In fact with the exception of the 2004 rose bowl where UM was simply overmatched Navarre was directly responsible for every loss in the 2002-2003 season. When I mean directly responsible an obvious misread or an obvious missed throw. The guy had a strong arm that was accurate if he had time to set up. Else it was panic city. So great stats do not make a great QB. I'll take spaghetti armed Michael Taylor any day”

Ian book didn’t “just have great stats”. He made countless big plays w/ his feet and his arm in every game he played until the Clemson buzzsaw.

I read through the whole thread and I was the only one that said anything about Book hitting wide receivers in stride, so I find it ironic that you randomly used that as your example of what people are "saying about Book" but weren't directly responding to the only person that made that comment... But hey, I'll take your word for it.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Oh give me a break w/ your “ludicrous sensationalism” crap, Ontario, I wasn’t quoting your post, I was generalizing about some of the knocks that have been put out there in the countless posts about book. But I’d say the same thing about your exact words that you “don't think he'll ever be spectacular at hitting a guy in stride, downfield” too. I’d say it’s premature to come to that conclusion based on about 20 or so attempts at the deep ball.

As for you giving book praise, you act as though you’re doing him a favor by praising his season. His play earned the praise. You’re not going out on any limb.


As for the deep ball, the easy misses are more noticeable than ones that connect. Example: what’s mentioned more on this board? The miss to finke on the double move at va tech or the dime deep ball that he threw to finke in that same game? He had three perfect deep balls at nwstrn (Boykin td, young td & out of his own end zone to finke). That’s three that I saw on the extended highlights only from that game. Pitt game winner to Boykin. USC deep corner to finke. Two at wake. Claypool cuse game. Navy Boykin. At least a dozen to 20 back shoulders. Some here have claimed that we only had 3-4 all season. Lol. It’s outlandish, nit-pickingly overly dissecting the situation and exaggerating to bolster their side of the argument against book and/or our offense of 3 yd curls. Please, watch the games again. We were more than that, but the 3-4 bad misses are all some here remember. That’s selective memory, imo.

As for me saying that he won't be spectacular at hitting guys in stride downfield, I don't think that's an over statement. To go from average to spectacular at something over the course of a year, rarely happens. Do I think he can be respectable at it? Sure. Throughout this thread and others I've mentioned that there is room for him to improve in the area, but I don't think it's going to be his strength. That said, there are throws that he was much more accurate with than others. If the handful of deep balls that Ian completed last year, the VAST majority were on post routes, deep crossing routes and corner routes. I see no reason why there can't be an emphasis on those angular routes this time. Balls that he can throw on more of a rope appear to be his strength, balls that require touch and some air, to a landmark appear to be harder for him. In particular, the go routes and fade routes.

 

[zonairish]

You mean like bullshit about going on vacations that nobody gives a **** about? You mean like lacing posts patting one self on the back from previous work giving off the perception of containing inside info about the recruiting trail?

Not that?

Then you mean like switching 180 degrees and suddenly kissing ass of an ass that doesn't exist?

Why is it that I don't post bullshit ripping apart our players before they even get a chance?

Reality. I actually give said player and coach a chance to prove themselves.

I post on facts right before our very eyes.

I don't need to issue half assed yet condescending board apologies because of posts that are false.

Everyone knows exactly where I'm coming from. There is no mystery.
I think the coaches suck. Performance proven.

Chase thinks recruiting sucks. He might be in love with the silly S+P+W+XY rating but God damn it he sticks to his guns.

I've much more respect for anyone who sticks to what they believe than flip flopping every other month.

The ND football world according to you...
Book hasn't taken a meaningful snap but is nothing but gristle. He can't ever be a good QB. He's just an afterthought.

Now... it's Book will have a season for the ages. He'll be the best thing in a decade. Just an incredible season lies ahead for him.

Long...you say he calls plays from the cracker box in so many words. He's juvenile. Can't call a game to save his life. 3 yard passing gane over and over.

Now... suddenly Long is a good season away from being some hot head coaching commodity. All without playing any games mind you since the last anemic showing that you ripped him apart over.

Oh and I almost forgot the really cool one. Telling the board all about planning your vacations and things are just great in your world. After your morning toast and jog I think it was. LOL


P.s.
Somethimg I take a little more personally...

You want to rip Brian Kelly and team to shreds for having a tough go of it against Navy. The problem is you spent more evergy actually making fun of Navy and how on earth can we "only" perform that much against the lowly Midshipmen.

If you really are a ND fan then you'd know we don't ever disrespect the academies. Not ever. We hope we beat them of course but we only need 1 more point.

Thx,
Appreciate it,
Have a great day

Grow up

 

[Patrirish]

don’t get that Long/Kelly game calling criticism, the only time ND loses is when they face more talented and physically superior teams.

Isn’t that true of every team ?

 

[Golson5]

Hilarious...

Someone calls you out on your bullshit and you say...I'll get em. I'll hit ignore.

I paraphrase your comments and you say...oh my dear lord I didn't say something so awful about a player or coach.

Well no shit. It's a figure of speech and I clearly stated I wasn't digging up your exact comments to quote you exactly.

The above would constitute you reading and getting what I had to say. Instead you will piss and moan sarcastically that it wasn't your exact quotes.

BTW Mr. Condescending from Ontario...

The ONLY thing I take personally from your horseshit is the disrespect toward the players of OUR service academies.

Has nothing to do with ND football and everything to do with having just two ounces of class.

Class that your foot inserting in mouth obliterates until the next month you just walk back all your immature comments.

If you put me on ignore I applaud that...but I'd be willing to bet you just can't help yourself.

You are a moron. That is all

 

[zonairish]

As for me saying that he won't be spectacular at hitting guys in stride downfield, I don't think that's an over statement. To go from average to spectacular at something over the course of a year, rarely happens. Do I think he can be respectable at it? Sure. Throughout this thread and others I've mentioned that there is room for him to improve in the area, but I don't think it's going to be his strength. That said, there are throws that he was much more accurate with than others. If the handful of deep balls that Ian completed last year, the VAST majority were on post routes, deep crossing routes and corner routes. I see no reason why there can't be an emphasis on those angular routes this time. Balls that he can throw on more of a rope appear to be his strength, balls that require touch and some air, to a landmark appear to be harder for him. In particular, the go routes and fade routes.

I am just hoping he improves especially the deep ball. What these clowns are complaining about is noise. I believe Book will improve. My reasoning is one more year as starter and he is the man The oline will be better. We have more speed at receiver and excellent TE. The running back situation is better than folks. I know I sound like complete sunshine this team is going to move the ball.

On D we have depth speed and length coming in. I believe the line backers will be much better than expected this team can be easily 10 and 2 up to 12and0. Either record would not surpise

 

[IrishInOntario]

I am just hoping he improves especially the deep ball. What these clowns are complaining about is noise. I believe Book will improve. My reasoning is one more year as starter and he is the man The oline will be better. We have more speed at receiver and excellent TE. The running back situation is better than folks. I know I sound like complete sunshine this team is going to move the ball.

On D we have depth speed and length coming in. I believe the line backers will be much better than expected this team can be easily 10 and 2 up to 12and0. Either record would not surpise

Me either. I'm predicting 10-2, only because of the three tough road games and Brian Kelly's 3-11 record on the road while at Notre Dame. I think ND goes undefeated at home, loses in Athens and splits @Stanford and @Michigan. They could also win both those games and go 11-1... I'll eat my crow, per usual if they win in Athens (obviously an injury to Jake Fromm could change a lot).

Anything less than 10-2 and a top 10 finish, with an opportunity to play in a Big Bowl Game, would be underachieving in my mind.

 

[hfhmilkman]

I read through the whole thread and I was the only one that said anything about Book hitting wide receivers in stride, so I find it ironic that you randomly used that as your example of what people are "saying about Book" but weren't directly responding to the only person that made that comment... But hey, I'll take your word for it.

Name a game where Book mak

“I am not a Book expert but my retort is John Navarre. Navarre still holds the career record for passing yards. The guy was incredible when the Oline gave him plenty of time and our receivers were always open. Yet it was a tail of two cities. In fact with the exception of the 2004 rose bowl where UM was simply overmatched Navarre was directly responsible for every loss in the 2002-2003 season. When I mean directly responsible an obvious misread or an obvious missed throw. The guy had a strong arm that was accurate if he had time to set up. Else it was panic city. So great stats do not make a great QB. I'll take spaghetti armed Michael Taylor any day”

Ian book didn’t “just have great stats”. He made countless big plays w/ his feet and his arm in every game he played until the Clemson buzzsaw.

My point is Navarre made great plays also against overmatched teams. When the other teams talent approached Michigan, Navarre's performance went off a cliff.

 

[chaseball]

Name a game where Book mak

My point is Navarre made great plays also against overmatched teams. When the other teams talent approached Michigan, Navarre's performance went off a cliff.

All quarterbacks play better versus worse competition and play worse versus better competition this should just be intuitively obvious.

In college football when you're in Michigan's or Notre Dame's tier e.g. top 10 or top 15 or so in talent you may play only a couple of games all season against programs that are equal or better. And in one or two game sample sizes there's a ton of volatility in performance. Point being it is hard to take anything from a single performance in a single game and draw any real reliable conclusions about the quality of a player.

You have to evaluate the player's performance holistically based on the collective of all of his games during the season... the sample size is just way too small otherwise. And when you do that book was easily a top 10 or so quarterback in all of college football last season and this was a first time starter with alot of relatively mediocre skill players on offense.

I've never seen anything like it in all my years following Notre Dame. it is almost like every single player on offense became twice as good instantly after Ian book was inserted at QB and all of the overall offensive-numbers were backing up these observations.

Which is why I had the biggest boner for book and was astonished that I was seemingly the only one who noticed just how much of an impact he was having. Most Notre Dame analyst were just criticizing him or complaining about the occasional couple of really bad missed open passes down-field while not really discussing anything else he was bringing to the table. There were even fans--to my utter disbelief--hoping that wimbush would take the starting job back when book broke his ribs and had to sit out a week midseason. Then there were a lot of fans expecting Phil Jerko would take over at quarterback this offseason--since he couldn't possibly be as bad as Ian book--a notion which was equally as shocking to me.

I'm glad that posters whose opinion I have a lot of respect for are starting to come around though.

For some reason Ian books game or physiology is just not aesthetically pleasing to the common Notre Dame football fan and he doesn't fit the mold that people typically associate with Star quarterbacks (like Trevor Lawrence for example who looks like he walked off a set in a football movie in Hollywood to play quarterback for Clemson). This is my guess as to why Book's game is easy to overlook.

Our little 6 ft nothing quarterback with relatively mediocre arm strength who looks like a walk-on running back trying to play quarterback in the 4th quarter of the blue&gold game or something is one of the best offensive players in college football heading into 2019 ... He gets a ton of volume between pass attempts and the read-option both of which he operates at an elite level...moreover, the upside of Notre Dame's 2019 offense and season for that matter will be only as high as this single player can take it.

 

[Get Nasty]

Oh give me a break w/ your “ludicrous sensationalism” crap, Ontario, I wasn’t quoting your post, I was generalizing about some of the knocks that have been put out there in the countless posts about book. But I’d say the same thing about your exact words that you “don't think he'll ever be spectacular at hitting a guy in stride, downfield” too. I’d say it’s premature to come to that conclusion based on about 20 or so attempts at the deep ball.

As for you giving book praise, you act as though you’re doing him a favor by praising his season. His play earned the praise. You’re not going out on any limb.


As for the deep ball, the easy misses are more noticeable than ones that connect. Example: what’s mentioned more on this board? The miss to finke on the double move at va tech or the dime deep ball that he threw to finke in that same game? He had three perfect deep balls at nwstrn (Boykin td, young td & out of his own end zone to finke). That’s three that I saw on the extended highlights only from that game. Pitt game winner to Boykin. USC deep corner to finke. Two at wake. Claypool cuse game. Navy Boykin. At least a dozen to 20 back shoulders. Some here have claimed that we only had 3-4 all season. Lol. It’s outlandish, nit-pickingly overly dissecting the situation and exaggerating to bolster their side of the argument against book and/or our offense of 3 yd curls. Please, watch the games again. We were more than that, but the 3-4 bad misses are all some here remember. That’s selective memory, imo.

You are confusing 20 yard completions as deep balls. He had no deep balls vs wake or navy, and only one vs NW.

You are proving our point. When you think a 20 yard completion is a deep ball, you’re probably not good at real deep balls. That’s a middle school deep ball. Book has a good enough arm, he’ll have his opportunities this year.

 

[echowaker]

All except for the sideline.

It's amateur night on our sideline. It shouldn't be considering it's Kelly's 97th year of coaching but it is.

We run plays to our weaknesses. That's #1.

We dont "GO FOR IT" as in pull the God damn string and let it rip.

We did with Wimbush but he couldn't hit the ocean throwing from the pier.

Ian is much more accurate than BW but...

The question remains. Why aren't we throwing the ball down the field?

You yourself...I don't have time to dig up quotes shared my frustration of the dink and dunk offense. We get little nibbles of yardage in the passing game. No chunk yardage plays.

Look at the Clemson Bama game. The scoring (a lot ) including both teams was littered with big plays. Even when not scoring they racked up tons of yardage with crossing routes etc..

I like Book.

I'm the freaking one that told the board he was starting by week 3-4.

Book's limitations was, is our sideline.

He's told to throw a three yard curl and sit down.

I don't blame Book....I blame our very incompetent sideline.

groundhog day........again

 

[echowaker]

I don't know that I've read a post of yours in the last few months that has had to do with anything but how much you hate the ND coaching staff.

We get it. You think Chip Long and Brian Kelly call a bad game. Do you have anything else to add at this point? Because it feels like you just copy and paste the same post from thread to thread.

it would be much easier for him to just copy and paste the first post in which he ripped the staff. it's all the same uneducated nonsense anyway.

 

[francade]

“I read through the whole thread and I was the only one that said anything about Book hitting wide receivers in stride, so I find it ironic that you randomly used that as your example of what people are "saying about Book" but weren't directly responding to the only person that made that comment... But hey, I'll take your word for it.”

Ontario, I can go through the hundreds of posts about what’s been said about book by you and others in the past and I’m sure I’ll find more scathing remarks than “he can’t hit a wr in stride”. You’ve said much worse during your in game tantrums. But as I told you a long time ago, your analysis of him will always be looked at by me w/ a fisheye based on your initial evaluations of him. It probably still bothers you that he made you look silly so if you can knock his play down a few notches, your precious perch as an expert recruiting analyst can be intact. So now you supposedly eat crow and heap praise on him so that when he doesn’t reach that mark, you can always come back and say “see, I told you he was a backup”. Give it a rest already.

 

[Get Nasty]

“I read through the whole thread and I was the only one that said anything about Book hitting wide receivers in stride, so I find it ironic that you randomly used that as your example of what people are "saying about Book" but weren't directly responding to the only person that made that comment... But hey, I'll take your word for it.”

Ontario, I can go through the hundreds of posts about what’s been said about book by you and others in the past and I’m sure I’ll find more scathing remarks than “he can’t hit a wr in stride”. You’ve said much worse during your in game tantrums. But as I told you a long time ago, your analysis of him will always be looked at by me w/ a fisheye based on your initial evaluations of him. It probably still bothers you that he made you look silly so if you can knock his play down a few notches, your precious perch as an expert recruiting analyst can be intact. So now you supposedly eat crow and heap praise on him so that when he doesn’t reach that mark, you can always come back and say “see, I told you he was a backup”. Give it a rest already.

He hasn't done anything yet. He has played well and even great most of the time vs average to bad defenses. He played down right awful vs a top 5 defense last year, the only good D he has ever faced. Now, I think book with a few improvements that many of us have talked about has the skills, oline, and weapons around him to beat the best defenses. But again, to do that, he has to improve in some areas. There is no defense in college that can stop a great QB with weapons. That has been shown over and over especially recently.

I think book will be improved, and I think we'll give Georgia all they can handle.

 

[echowaker]

“I read through the whole thread and I was the only one that said anything about Book hitting wide receivers in stride, so I find it ironic that you randomly used that as your example of what people are "saying about Book" but weren't directly responding to the only person that made that comment... But hey, I'll take your word for it.”

Ontario, I can go through the hundreds of posts about what’s been said about book by you and others in the past and I’m sure I’ll find more scathing remarks than “he can’t hit a wr in stride”. You’ve said much worse during your in game tantrums. But as I told you a long time ago, your analysis of him will always be looked at by me w/ a fisheye based on your initial evaluations of him. It probably still bothers you that he made you look silly so if you can knock his play down a few notches, your precious perch as an expert recruiting analyst can be intact. So now you supposedly eat crow and heap praise on him so that when he doesn’t reach that mark, you can always come back and say “see, I told you he was a backup”. Give it a rest already.

Book has room for improvement as does every player. The QB always gets more scrutiny. comes with the territory.

 

[francade]

“You are confusing 20 yard completions as deep balls. He had no deep balls vs wake or navy, and only one vs NW.

You are proving our point. When you think a 20 yard completion is a deep ball, you’reprobably not good at real deep balls. That’s a middle schooldeep ball. Book has a good enough arm, he’ll have his opportunities this year.”

I’m not confusing anything. When the play goes over the top of the defense, it’s generally considered a deep ball. In your world, I guess the qb has to wind up and heave it as far as he can for it to be a deep ball. Watch the extended highlights again before you peddle your BS. There were most certainly deep balls completed in the games you said there weren’t. Take a look at the one from his own end zone to finke at nwstrn. That’s doesn’t count? Lol. You’ve got an agenda so I take your BS w/ a grain of salt but feel free to keep ripping into the dog killer, I’m sure he’s doing all he can to gain your love.

 

[chaseball]

“I read through the whole thread and I was the only one that said anything about Book hitting wide receivers in stride, so I find it ironic that you randomly used that as your example of what people are "saying about Book" but weren't directly responding to the only person that made that comment... But hey, I'll take your word for it.”

Ontario, I can go through the hundreds of posts about what’s been said about book by you and others in the past and I’m sure I’ll find more scathing remarks than “he can’t hit a wr in stride”. You’ve said much worse during your in game tantrums. But as I told you a long time ago, your analysis of him will always be looked at by me w/ a fisheye based on your initial evaluations of him. It probably still bothers you that he made you look silly so if you can knock his play down a few notches, your precious perch as an expert recruiting analyst can be intact. So now you supposedly eat crow and heap praise on him so that when he doesn’t reach that mark, you can always come back and say “see, I told you he was a backup”. Give it a rest already.

Even when iio was being critical of Ian book last season he was pretty specific regarding his criticism he never came off as a blind hater just very skeptical and critical.

Pointing out that Ian book and the rest of Notre Dame's offense was lacking big dynamic plays in the passing game was nothing that nobody else didn't notice.

Regardless understanding that he was very critical and even evaluated him as a career backup a few years ago but has since come around on how good of a player he might just be is about as good as it gets among fan forums in terms of eating crow and trying to move forward. Yet you are doubling down and rubbing it in needlessly and even bashing the guy who contributes more value to this forum than anybody.

 

[francade]

He hasn’t done anything yet? Lol. More agenda driven BS from the number 1 book basher. He wasn’t “downright awful” against Clemson either. He didn’t play well but didn’t get help form any facet of the offense, not one, including the staff.

 

[francade]

“I don't agree with this take at all. even when iio was being critical of Ian book last season he was pretty specific regarding his criticism he never came off as a blind hater just very skeptical and critical.

Pointing out that Ian book and the rest of Notre Dame's offense was lacking big dynamic plays in the passing game was nothing that nobody else didn't notice.

Regardless understanding that he was very critical and even evaluated him as a career backup a few years ago but has since come around on how good of a player he might just be is about as good as it gets among fan forums in terms of eating crow and trying to move forward. Yet you are doubling down and rubbing it in needlessly and even bashing the guy who contributes more value to this forum than anybody.”

I could care less about whether you agree w/ my post or not, chase. And I don’t really care about his board contributions. Wait until he has a bad play or series like the n’wstrn or Pitt games last year and he’ll throw one of his well known tantrums about him. Some of you are really high on yourselves w/ your self-importance to the board too. Know-it-alls to the umpth degree. I don’t need you or Ontario or nasty to give me tutorials on the position, btw. Believe it or not, there are other posters that played the position in college and coached the position too.

 

[Get Nasty]

“You are confusing 20 yard completions as deep balls. He had no deep balls vs wake or navy, and only one vs NW.

You are proving our point. When you think a 20 yard completion is a deep ball, you’reprobably not good at real deep balls. That’s a middle schooldeep ball. Book has a good enough arm, he’ll have his opportunities this year.”

I’m not confusing anything. When the play goes over the top of the defense, it’s generally considered a deep ball. In your world, I guess the qb has to wind up and heave it as far as he can for it to be a deep ball. Watch the extended highlights again before you peddle your BS. There were most certainly deep balls completed in the games you said there weren’t. Take a look at the one from his own end zone to finke at nwstrn. That’s doesn’t count? Lol. You’ve got an agenda so I take your BS w/ a grain of salt but feel free to keep ripping into the dog killer, I’m sure he’s doing all he can to gain your love.

I think you confuse american football with European football? No one could be as obtuse as you if they actually watched ND football games.

I was at the wake game, he threw a pass to a wide open mack down the middle, and if it would have led him on the run he scores a long TD.

Against NW. He threw a good corner throw to Boykin, and a back shoulder throw to Chase. First 20 yards, second 30. neither pass hit the player in stride to ontarios point. There would be no YAC on either throw. I'm good with both throws because he gave the WR a chance. He actually rushed the chase throw, if he led him properly good chance at 98 yard TD.

 

[francade]

“Book has room for improvement as does every player. The QB always gets more scrutiny. comes with the territory.”

I agree 100%, echo. But let’s not pretend that some of the shit that’s been tossed around about book is all measured, deserved criticism. It hasn’t been.

 

[francade]

“I think you confuse american football with European football? No one could be as obtuse as you if they actually watched ND football games.”

You caught me, nasty. I was confusing American football w/ European football. Now everything you say makes sense. What channel are the ND games on so I can get up to speed w/ the “American game”?

 

[echowaker]

He hasn’t done anything yet? Lol. More agenda driven BS from the number 1 book basher. He wasn’t “downright awful” against Clemson either. He didn’t play well but didn’t get help form any facet of the offense, not one, including the staff.

i thought he was awful against Clemson. The moment looked way too big for him. I would bet big money he's learned a valuable lesson from that night and that will benefit him greatly this season.

 

[echowaker]

“Book has room for improvement as does every player. The QB always gets more scrutiny. comes with the territory.”

I agree 100%, echo. But let’s not pretend that some of the shit that’s been tossed around about book is all measured, deserved criticism. It hasn’t been.

i honestly don't think anyone here has an "agenda" when it comes to Book. folks personal opinions that's all. I like Book. I think he's a very good college QB . ND is lucky to have him. That said I also think that when his eligibility is up at ND his football career will likely be over. I hope I'm wrong about that.

 

[Get Nasty]

i honestly don't think anyone here has an "agenda" when it comes to Book. folks personal opinions that's all. I like Book. I think he's a very good college QB . ND is lucky to have him. That said I also think that when his eligibility is up at ND his football career will likely be over. I hope I'm wrong about that.

I think he could be a serviceable NFL back up IF he improves his pocket presence and toughness in the pocket. Because he's a little undersized with an average arm to make the NFL he has to make tough throws under pressure, something he did not do at all. He has to stay in the pocket and step into downfield throws leading receivers right before getting hit. I'm not talking about being hit by a free blitzer, i'm talking more about when the pocket starts to shrink, he can't turn his back and run away. If he can do that this year, look out for NDs O. I honestly think his pocket presence causes his poor throws downfield. He rushes them and throws off back foot a bunch.

I'm super glad we have book right now because Phil ain't ready. I liked Wimbush, but clearly the coaches have an offense they want to run and it doesn't fit wimbush's weaknesses. It's also why i'm concerned with Phil struggling to throw spirals on throws less than 20 yards. I don't see how you can be consistently successful in a kelly/long offense without being able to connect on quick passes consistently.

 

[Patrirish]

You are confusing 20 yard completions as deep balls. He had no deep balls vs wake or navy, and only one vs NW.

You are proving our point. When you think a 20 yard completion is a deep ball, you’re probably not good at real deep balls. That’s a middle school deep ball. Book has a good enough arm, he’ll have his opportunities this year.

Tom Brady’s longest completion in the super bowl was 29 yards including YAC

How do you throw a deep ball down the field when you don’t have time ?

 

[francade]

“I honestly don't think anyone here has an "agenda" when it comes to Book. folks personal opinions that's all. I like Book. I think he's a very good college QB . ND is lucky to have him. That said I also think that when his eligibility is up at ND his football career will likely be over. I hope I'm wrong about that.”

We can disagree about agendas and I could care less about his pro potential, but based on who has been picked in the draft at the position, there’s no reason why he can’t be picked at some point, especially w/ the way shorter qbs are taken more often lately (ie mayfield & Murray). And imagine, he’s got another year of eligibility, you guys are gonna have to endure another season of the dog killer.