Camp Talk

[FriedmanIP]

Hey dope. How was Mack’s last game this year? Oh he was suspended

How was his last 2 seasons? Oh only 1 TD which was when we were already getting blown out and 166 yards because he was suspended for a whole season?

But I’m the one whose crazy for calling that disappointing LOL

No has said that you can't call it disappointing.

But you can't call Mack's 2017 season disappointing...and then say you believe in Kmet .... who had a MUCH less productive/impressive 2017.

You can't say Mack's frosh year was disappointing ...and then say you believe in Kmet .... who had a MUCH less productive/impressive Frosh year.

This type of stupidity is why I smack you around so much, and laugh at you while I do it.

 

[uteck42]

What I’ve said so far isn’t an opinion, it’s a fact, so of course I’m right.

• - Mack had a good Frosh season
• - Mack has only been eligible for 2 seasons
• - Mack had a better Frosh season than either Kmet or Wright
• - Mack had a better 2017 season than either Kmet or Wright
  
• - Mack has only had 1 season that was disappointing (on the field)
  
• - Part of that season was due to inconsistent QB play

Which one of those would you even try to debate?

As for whether he’ll become the elite pass catching TE that we all want him to become, now that is an opinion and one we could discuss.

But so far, there is absolutely nothing that has suggested that Kmet and Wright are better than Mack or that Mack has repeatedly disappointed on the field.

Whaaaat? Say it isn't so.......are you talking out both sides of your mouth.....could Julian Love actually know more than you

 

[FriedmanIP]

Whaaaat? Say it isn't so.......are you talking out both sides of your mouth.....could Julian Love actually know more than you

What?

Lower numbers or an unexciting passing game is somewhat on the QB, obviously.

But lack of effort by a pass-catcher is 100% on the pass-catcher.

It was lack of effort (consistent effort) that held back ESB, Claypool, and Mack in 2017......not Wimbush.

They wouldn't have had the same raw stats due to Wimbush's passing struggles and the run-oriented offense...but they still would have shined on the field if they had been giving top effort.

You don't have to look any further than a player like DJ Moore to see that. Maryland was playing a LINEBACKER AT QB due to injuries...and he still was a star on the field and a 1st Round Pick.

Try not to be so stupid.

 

[NDIRISH53]

No has said that you can't call it disappointing.

But you can't call Mack's 2017 season disappointing...and then say you believe in Kmet .... who had a MUCH less productive/impressive 2017.

You can't say Mack's frosh year was disappointing ...and then say you believe in Kmet .... who had a MUCH less productive/impressive Frosh year.

This type of stupidity is why I smack you around so much, and laugh at you while I do it.

Dude... Kmet was s freshmen with like 4 guys with at least 2 more years if experience in front of him. Seriously? My god you’re a dope

 

[FriedmanIP]

Dude... Kmet was s freshmen with like 4 guys with at least 2 more years if experience in front of him. Seriously? My god you’re a dope

And somehow you're more confident with that non-performance that a much more productive performance from a player that Kmet apparently couldn't beat out for PT................lol

How about comparing their True Frosh seasons to each other?

This type of stupidity is why I smack you around so much, and laugh at you while I do it.

 

[justified1]

UM plays PSU. They might be pretty darned good.

 

[francade]

“But none of that changes how silly it is to say that Mack disappointed in his freshman year, but be OK with the freshman year from Kmet and Wright.
You can’t have it both ways, Mack outperformed them in his freshman year.”

I believe you can have it both ways based on circumstances. Just as much as I can’t definitively say that if kmet and/or Wright were plugged into Mack’s situation in 2015, they’d have fared better, you can’t definitively say that they wouldn’t have. Mack has put up more numbers based on opportunity and I realize that opportunity is earned but Mack’s opportunity presented itself more easily and/or readily than the other two. We’ve seen Mack in action, the others not so much. That’s all I’m saying. It’s tough to compare players when one of them (or two in this case I guess) haven't gotten significant playing time/opportunity. I think we’ll find out soon enough. I’m looking forward to all of them living up to their potential.

 

[NDIRISH53]

Heard and saw video that Wimbush was flat out awful today. I’m talking god awful. He was missing the net that you throw into with the pockets from about 15 away and it’s about the size of a youth soccer net. He was throwing begind backs on out of the backfield passes. I’m starting to get worried. Every time he struggles in a practice it’s “oh it’s just one practice” but I’m losing faith in the guy. He’s just not a confident dude. He’s not gonna get in his teammates faces when need be and demand excellence if he can’t be excellent himself.

Getting worried about
1- his confidence
2- his accuracy

If he isn’t good to great, then I’m doubly concerted about the RB situation.

 

[NDAFArly]

Heard and saw video that Wimbush was flat out awful today. I’m talking god awful. He was missing the net that you throw into with the pockets from about 15 away and it’s about the size of a youth soccer net. He was throwing begind backs on out of the backfield passes. I’m starting to get worried. Every time he struggles in a practice it’s “oh it’s just one practice” but I’m losing faith in the guy. He’s just not a confident dude. He’s not gonna get in his teammates faces when need be and demand excellence if he can’t be excellent himself.

Getting worried about
1- his confidence
2- his accuracy

If he isn’t good to great, then I’m doubly concerted about the RB situation.

He is usually horrible in warmups & 1v1 sessions, then gets better during 7v7 then is fully going in team vs team.
It’s a weird situation where he can’t throw agsinst no defense, but is 180 in team sessions.
I’m more worried there were a lot of drops today. During the entire practice BW was at 52% (which even includes the really bad opening portion), but had four drops. If not for the drops he would have been close to 60%, which we all would take.
If you are reading the reports from 247, don’t bother because they have zero football coaches who analyze. They can’t tell you if a wrong route was ran vs a wrong QB read.

 

[NDAFArly]

Not to stoke the flames of the TE argument, but it seems that Kmet has had the worst camp of anybody so far. Hopefully it’s because of baseball & he gets his stuff together.

 

[NDIRISH53]

Not to stoke the flames of the TE argument, but it seems that Kmet has had the worst camp of anybody so far. Hopefully it’s because of baseball & he gets his stuff together.

Not surprised by that. A rule a go by in sports (especially baseball) is when a player the media loves to talk about starts struggling you don’t even hear the name come up anymore. Like when a baseball player is 5 for his last 50 the radio guys just stop bringing him up. Haven’t heard a peep out of Kmet.

Will gladly eat crow from @FriedmanIP if Mack has a big year.

 

[NDAFArly]

Another positive is that Tillery has been a beast.
According to Coach D, if anyone other than Mustipher & Bars are blocking him he lives in the backfield.
UM is worried about their Tackles on the outside, but if Tillery brings the heat up the middle that is not a good thing for them.
There is a reason he is projected 1st rounder at DT.

 

[IrishMike409]

The Wimbush situation is concerning. Is he 100% locked in as the starter vs. Michigan?

 

[NDAFArly]

The Wimbush situation is concerning. Is he 100% locked in as the starter vs. Michigan?

Yes.

This is what Coach said about a certain other site losing it over Wimbush today & if it was that bad:
“No. Anyone saying that is saying it b/c they were obsessing over warm ups. As a former QB and QB coach I don't care what he did in warm ups. Other people do.”

 

[NDIRISH53]

Yes.

This is what Coach said about a certain other site losing it over Wimbush today & if it was that bad:
“No. Anyone saying that is saying it b/c they were obsessing over warm ups. As a former QB and QB coach I don't care what he did in warm ups. Other people do.”

Look man, I saw it with my own eyes. You’re a quarterback at Notre Dame, you can’t miss the whole net nearly every throw, let alone miss the pocket. It was very poor. Wouldn’t be concerned if he has proven to be accurate and didn’t have clear confidence issues and problems being assertive.

 

[VTND]

Ian Book is the better QB.

 

[VTND]

Look man, I saw it with my own eyes. You’re a quarterback at Notre Dame, you can’t miss the whole net nearly every throw, let alone miss the pocket. It was very poor. Wouldn’t be concerned if he has proven to be accurate and didn’t have clear confidence issues and problems being assertive.

You hit the nail on the head. It wasn’t like he was missing receivers running routes 10-15 yards down the field. He was missing a net that wasn’t moving lol.

 

[justified1]

Ian Book is the better QB.

If that is true. No Disneyworld.

 

[justified1]

Another positive is that Tillery has been a beast.
According to Coach D, if anyone other than Mustipher & Bars are blocking him he lives in the backfield.
UM is worried about their Tackles on the outside, but if Tillery brings the heat up the middle that is not a good thing for them.
There is a reason he is projected 1st rounder at DT.

Since Tuitt and Nix, and players on other teams in similar situations, I wonder if JT will play with abandon or if his draft year and self preservation will influence his play; especially the 2nd part of the season. I could see him opting out of any bowl.

 

[FriedmanIP]

Heard and saw video that Wimbush was flat out awful today. I’m talking god awful. He was missing the net that you throw into with the pockets from about 15 away and it’s about the size of a youth soccer net. He was throwing begind backs on out of the backfield passes. I’m starting to get worried. Every time he struggles in a practice it’s “oh it’s just one practice” but I’m losing faith in the guy. He’s just not a confident dude. He’s not gonna get in his teammates faces when need be and demand excellence if he can’t be excellent himself.

Getting worried about
1- his confidence
2- his accuracy

If he isn’t good to great, then I’m doubly concerted about the RB situation.

Sounds like he had an acceptable practice against actual defense, but struggled during warm-ups.

Not sure that that’s surprising or that it matters at all.

 

[FriedmanIP]

Ian Book is the better QB.

Literally everyone who actually attends the practices And is qualified to have an opinion on the topic disagrees with you.

All this handwringing over Wimbush is ridiculous

 

[echowaker]

Heard and saw video that Wimbush was flat out awful today. I’m talking god awful. He was missing the net that you throw into with the pockets from about 15 away and it’s about the size of a youth soccer net. He was throwing begind backs on out of the backfield passes. I’m starting to get worried. Every time he struggles in a practice it’s “oh it’s just one practice” but I’m losing faith in the guy. He’s just not a confident dude. He’s not gonna get in his teammates faces when need be and demand excellence if he can’t be excellent himself.

Getting worried about
1- his confidence
2- his accuracy

If he isn’t good to great, then I’m doubly concerted about the RB situation.

C'mon man, you talkin bout practice....

 

[NDIRISH53]

C'mon man, you talkin bout practice....

From a Philly boy that made me laugh

 

[NDIRISH53]

Sounds like he had an acceptable practice against actual defense, but struggled during warm-ups.

Not sure that that’s surprising or that it matters at all.

My only point is- it’s still plausible he has a poor year. Maybe a little more likely than I thought. I think he’s closer to being benched then being a heisman finalist, but both are extremes. I’d like a damn good solid year out of him, which is what I expect.

 

[FriedmanIP]

My only point is- it’s still plausible he has a poor year. Maybe a little more likely than I thought. I think he’s closer to being benched then being a heisman finalist, but both are extremes. I’d like a damn good solid year out of him, which is what I expect.

Of course it’s possible that he has a poor year, and possible any player has a poor year.

Everything else you just said is trying to extrapolate meaning from the warm-up session of a practice… So it’s just as worthless as everything else you post.

These ridiculously uninformed and stupid posts are why am always taking you to task. All you have to do is express opinions that aren’t stupid, or provide non-stupid evidence to support your opinion, and I won’t humiliate you like I have been.

 

[NDAFArly]

ND has a really good defense & a really good OL.
ND’s legitimate goal is the CFP.
They are not getting there with Book.
It’s sink or swim with Wimbush.
People need to get used to that.

 

[VTND]

Literally everyone who actually attends the practices And is qualified to have an opinion on the topic disagrees with you.

All this handwringing over Wimbush is ridiculous

Don’t care. From what I’ve seen both last year and in small bits of practice leads me to believe that he is going to struggle again this year. Hope he proves me wrong but I doubt it.

 

[FriedmanIP]

Don’t care. From what I’ve seen both last year and in small bits of practice leads me to believe that he is going to struggle again this year. Hope he proves me wrong but I doubt it.

Warm ups from practice lead you to believe that the leader of a 10 win team, despite facing arguably the hardest schedule the nation, is now going to struggle.

And you don’t care that everyone qualified and informed disagrees with your analysis of Wimbush from this year’s practices.

And people on this board wonder why I laugh at the fools.

 

[mirer03]

Ian Book is the better QB.

Lol. No.

 

[VTND]

Warm ups from practice lead you to believe that the leader of a 10 win team, despite facing arguably the hardest schedule the nation, is now going to struggle.

And you don’t care that everyone qualified and informed disagrees with your analysis of Wimbush from this year’s practices.

And people on this board wonder why I laugh at the fools.

Ok let me break it down for you.

Wimbush has been in Kelly’s system for how long now? 3 years if I’m not mistaken and he is still behind the eight ball in terms of mechanics and decision making. Kelly has never produced a top notch quarterback add this to the fact that for whatever reason, the quarterbacks never develop further in their second season under Kelly. Could this change? Sure and in fact I hope I’m wrong but come on man, look further into the topic before you try to act like your the smartest dude in the room. You can credit him for a 10 win season but let’s be real, he can’t beat top 10 teams with his arm and we had to turn to Book to get the bowl win. There is no reason for me to believe he is going to light it up this year.

 

[chaseball]

Ok let me break it down for you.

Wimbush has been in Kelly’s system for how long now? 3 years if I’m not mistaken and he is still behind the eight ball in terms of mechanics and decision making. Kelly has never produced a top notch quarterback add this to the fact that for whatever reason, the quarterbacks never develop further in their second season under Kelly. Could this change? Sure and in fact I hope I’m wrong but come on man, look further into the topic before you try to act like your the smartest dude in the room. You can credit him for a 10 win season but let’s be real, he can’t beat top 10 teams with his arm and we had to turn to Book to get the bowl win. There is no reason for me to believe he is going to light it up this year.

I think Deshone Kizer's development was pretty impressive (from a mid 4 star recruit to a 2nd round draft pick). Kizer would have been a monster/potential superstar last season with tons of hardware/national recognition had he stayed for his final season.

There hasn't been a consistent development of superstars at QB under Brian Kelly, but the position has produced consistent enough to win championship football games.

I think Jerkovec is easily BKs best recruit at ND. Most of the other guys he's been able to sign and keep in the program were either 1 dimensional or limited in some way. Golson/Rees/Zaire/Wimbush are all QBs with major flaws that i think BK has done a good job mitigating.

It's largely the lack of depth and roster attrition (across the board) that has hindered this team under Brian Kelly. Lots of roster/personnel turn over, injuries, suspensions, defections, etc. with major drop off from the starters to the 2nd/3rd teams (this goes back to a lot of inconsistent recruiting during the early part of BKs tenure).

There were times during the last several seasons where guys who had no business being in the 2 deep were getting tons of snaps at positions they had no business playing (e.g. 5th year low 3 star recruits at LB taking snaps at Nosetackle .. or 1st teamers having to stay in the game for nearly EVERY snap). I think a lot of those issues have been addressed in recent recruiting cycles with the program identifying better fits and keeping more players on the roster.

The major area lacking on the roster is top end talent though .. 5 star/top 100 players at skill positions have been non existent much of the last 4-5 cycles. But BK has done a good job identifying/developing stars at skill positions .. hopefully there's more of that magic in 2018.

 

[Get Nasty]

I think Deshone Kizer's development was pretty impressive (from a mid 4 star recruit to a 2nd round draft pick). Kizer would have been a monster/potential superstar last season with tons of hardware/national recognition had he stayed for his final season.

There hasn't been a consistent development of superstars at QB under Brian Kelly, but the position has produced consistent enough to win championship football games.

I think Jerkovec is easily BKs best recruit at ND. Most of the other guys he's been able to sign and keep in the program were either 1 dimensional or limited in some way. Golson/Rees/Zaire/Wimbush are all QBs with major flaws that i think BK has done a good job mitigating.

It's largely the lack of depth and roster attrition (across the board) that has hindered this team under Brian Kelly. Lots of roster/personnel turn over, injuries, suspensions, defections, etc. with major drop off from the starters to the 2nd/3rd teams (this goes back to a lot of inconsistent recruiting during the early part of BKs tenure).

There were times during the last several seasons where guys who had no business being in the 2 deep were getting tons of snaps at positions they had no business playing (e.g. 5th year low 3 star recruits at LB taking snaps at Nosetackle .. or 1st teamers having to stay in the game for nearly EVERY snap). I think a lot of those issues have been addressed in recent recruiting cycles with the program identifying better fits and keeping more players on the roster.

The major area lacking on the roster is top end talent though .. 5 star/top 100 players at skill positions have been non existent much of the last 4-5 cycles. But BK has done a good job identifying/developing stars at skill positions .. hopefully there's more of that magic in 2018.

Kizer developed, but then laid an egg preparing for the 2016 season. He was so under prepared, out of shape, and overweight it was ridiculous.

 

[IrishMike409]

I'm not down on Wimbush. He's an unreal athlete, and an absolute weapon to have at QB. I hope he has a monster season, and I know he's capable of it. He can take games over.

That being said....why hasn't Book at least earned the opportunity to compete for the job during this camp? Book was good vs NC State, and vs. LSU. Given Wimbush's struggles....doesn't that at least warrant an opportunity to legitimately battle for the job?

 

[NDAFArly]

I'm not down on Wimbush. He's an unreal athlete, and an absolute weapon to have at QB. I hope he has a monster season, and I know he's capable of it. He can take games over.

That being said....why hasn't Book at least earned the opportunity to compete for the job during this camp? Book was good vs NC State, and vs. LSU. Given Wimbush's struggles....doesn't that at least warrant an opportunity to legitimately battle for the job?

Book wasn’t good vs NC State, Wimbush was. Book played against UNC. Huge difference.
NC State was arguably one of the best front 4’s in the country. UNC was decimated by injuries & one of the worst D’s.

And to your question about competition, they did have an open competition in the spring & Wimbush won it going away. It wasn’t even close.

 

[Get Nasty]

Book wasn’t good vs NC State, Wimbush was. Book played against UNC. Huge difference.
NC State was arguably one of the best front 4’s in the country. UNC was decimated by injuries & one of the worst D’s.

And to your question about competition, they did have an open competition in the spring & Wimbush won it going away. It wasn’t even close.

This

Book was ok vs UNC but had 2 picks (brandon had 6 on the season). Book did good vs Wake (a little) and LSU. LSU yardage all really came on one or two big plays but we'll take it.

You can win games with Book, but you will not win a championship. There's a chance you can win a championship with Wimbush. It's a QBs world out there. It's very difficult to win without a dual threat QB right now, it takes a team like Georgia last year that had an unreal Defense/running game to allow a traditional QB to almost win a natty.

 

[Get Nasty]

Book last year had 4 picks in 75 attempts, brandon had 6 in 275. If book had 275 pass attempts at the same ratio he would have had 15 picks.

 

[IrishMike409]

Book wasn’t good vs NC State, Wimbush was. Book played against UNC. Huge difference.
NC State was arguably one of the best front 4’s in the country. UNC was decimated by injuries & one of the worst D’s.

And to your question about competition, they did have an open competition in the spring & Wimbush won it going away. It wasn’t even close.

Good point. My mistake w the UNC- NC Stats mixup.

 

[mirer03]

Ian Book is the better QB.

No. He really is not. A great back up but not a long term starter. 4 tds to 4 ints. Wimbush beats him in every single catagory except completion %. Book over the course of a season is a lesser tommy reese. Good kid love the fire, but if hes the long term starter nd is in serious trouble.

 

[mrwigglesby21]

I think Deshone Kizer's development was pretty impressive (from a mid 4 star recruit to a 2nd round draft pick). Kizer would have been a monster/potential superstar last season with tons of hardware/national recognition had he stayed for his final season.

There hasn't been a consistent development of superstars at QB under Brian Kelly, but the position has produced consistent enough to win championship football games.

I think Jerkovec is easily BKs best recruit at ND. Most of the other guys he's been able to sign and keep in the program were either 1 dimensional or limited in some way. Golson/Rees/Zaire/Wimbush are all QBs with major flaws that i think BK has done a good job mitigating.

It's largely the lack of depth and roster attrition (across the board) that has hindered this team under Brian Kelly. Lots of roster/personnel turn over, injuries, suspensions, defections, etc. with major drop off from the starters to the 2nd/3rd teams (this goes back to a lot of inconsistent recruiting during the early part of BKs tenure).

There were times during the last several seasons where guys who had no business being in the 2 deep were getting tons of snaps at positions they had no business playing (e.g. 5th year low 3 star recruits at LB taking snaps at Nosetackle .. or 1st teamers having to stay in the game for nearly EVERY snap). I think a lot of those issues have been addressed in recent recruiting cycles with the program identifying better fits and keeping more players on the roster.

The major area lacking on the roster is top end talent though .. 5 star/top 100 players at skill positions have been non existent much of the last 4-5 cycles. But BK has done a good job identifying/developing stars at skill positions .. hopefully there's more of that magic in 2018.

What clips I saw of PJ, he looked pretty darn accurate, and we know he is athletic. Hopefully he has some good collegiate level toughness. Slings it kinda like Bernie Kosar. Hopefully he redshirts and is the starter next year.

 

[FriedmanIP]

Agreed. There’s a chance you can be amszing with wimbush but there’s also a chance he just falls apart. Book would win 9 MAYBE 10 games max and that includes a bowl game. Give me someone who can be elite, and I’ll take the chances. Screw being average

And the strangers twist of the day… I agree with you.

In this type of situation, do you have to go with the player who gives you a chance to be great.

I don’t feel the same way about RB (Williams versus Jones), because I think you can win at a very high-level with either one, given the differences in the positions.