c'mon, PJ is way more athletic than Kosar ever was. Kosar ran like a giraffe on Qualudes.
Camp Talk
- Thread starter NDIRISH53
- Start date
I was referring to throwing mechanics. Obviously they are vastly different in athletic prowess.
I’m sorry, who started the season again?
Who led us to a huge win over Michigan again?
Who won every game he started?
Kelly and Long didn’t want to change their offense to maximize Wimbush so they switched to Book.
But Wimbush was the better QB all offseason and was the starter against Michigan for a reason.
Weak, weak bump.
You’re blind because BW isn’t a QB. Book will play QB in the NFL someday while BW will have to play a different position to make the league. Let that sink in.
So basically you wanted Kelly to switch to the triple option? Come on man doesn’t matter what offense you run if you can’t read coverages.
Wimbush was not the better QB in the offseason. His accuracy was still a huge issue. You called people out for worrying about wimbush’s accuracy, which obviously carried over, you claimed no way should book start because wimbush is better (wrong as always).
2 facts
1. Dexter Williams is better than tony jones
2. Book is better than wimbush
And a bonus- you know nothing about football.
Neither one is likely to be an NFL QB.
Wimbush lacks the mental side and Book lacks the physical.
Power spread, similar to what Ohio State ran with JT Barrett, the winiggest QB in Ohio State history.
Wrong again, as always.
Wimbush was the better QB in the offseason. That’s why he started against Michigan.
Kelly/Long didn’t want to change the offense and Wimbush couldn’t grow enough to run it, and that’s why Book is starting now, and he’s doing very well.
Also, I’ve always said the Dexter had a great skill set and ceiling, but that he needed to get his head out of his ass to achieve that ceiling. Up until then Jones has been a better RB, because his head wasn’t up his ass and he’s a pretty solid RB....which he showed.
Thankfully, Dexter (and his mom) pulled his head out of his ass and it looks like he may achieve some of that ceiling.
It’s obvious you know nothing about the team of football inf general.
Pathetic.
No dude, I’ve literally heard one analyst say wimbush had a better offseason, only one.
Everyone knows Book would have had to play about twice as well as wimbush to take the starting job of an incumbent, which I kind of understand.
So you’re telling me brandon was magically playing better than book, completing more passes, getting more players involved, being more efficient all offseason, then just couldn’t do it in the season?
And vice versa ian was just average or at best not as good as Brandon and magically become better than him one day?
You’ll keep holding onto what BK said about how they needed Wimbush to beat Michigan, but most sensible people know Book would have beaten them too.
lol......you're such an idiot.
There is more to being a QB than the criteria you layout, which are Book's strengths.
The coaches said Wimbush was better
The knowedgleable analysts said Wimbush was better
Everyone in the know said Wimbush was better
I love watching you flop around like an idiot though, so keep going!!
You couldn't be more wrong. Analysts have all been skeptical of Wimbush, he's simply not a QB, not even an average QB. He ranked near the bottom of nearly every statistical category.
It's no coincidence that ND went 7 straight games without scoring 30 pts.. enter Book and they can't stop scoring. Book's ability to throw the ball has opened up the play book and opened up the run game. Teams learned that Wimbush was zero threat to beat you with his arm and after that the gig was up.
I'd love to see Wimbush worked in at WR because his ability to make plays after the catch could be huge... but he's no QB, not even close.
Again, you're wrong.
Analysts at camp consistently had Wimbush as the better performer at QB......just like the actual coaching staff had him at the better QB
(shown from Wimbush starting)
The difference was the Kelly/Long decision not to run a power-spread offense for Wimbush but instead running their preferred offense.
It's a fine deicsion, and it's worked so far, but that was the difference.
You and I are reading and listening to very different sources then because every reporter / podcast I listened to said the same thing; They get to see very little of practice so the sample size was very small but Wimbush was still struggling with accuracy on even simple throws.
In fact a video surfaced of all 3 QBs throwing screens in the flat to RBs and another of them throwing into pockets on a giant net. Wimbush didn't get it in the pocket 1 time and his throws in the flat were terrible. A couple different podcasts talked about this after it came out and they were all very concerned that Wimbush was not progressing.
As to what the coaches thought. I don't know if they were hoping Wimbush would progress enough to be average and that his athleticism would compensate. I don't know if they were leery about changing QBs given we were still winning. Whatever the reason, it's clear that the decision to start Wimbush was wrong, and honestly it's not even debatable. Go read articles, listen to podcasts and even national analysts say this ND team with Book at QB is far better and is a legitimate playoff contender.
Go to the 29 sec mark and he talks about Book and us being 24pts better with him.
http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/_/id/87/
Here is the link to an article on Onefootdown on 8/11 talking about how Wimbush struggled in fall camp and it has the video of him missing easy throws without pressure and Book nailing everything.
https://www.onefootdown.com/2018/8/...uring-saturdays-practice-ian-book-brian-kelly
Yeah, I said knowledgeable analysts.
A bunch of guys who have never even played football, let alone coached it....and never even sniffed doing any of that at the college level......
Like I said:
There is a reason the actual coaches started Wimbush
There is a reason that every KNOWLEDGEABLE analyst said Wimbush was better all off-season
Kelly/Long just didn't want to cater the offense to Wimbush's skillset (power-spread, ala Ohio State w. JT Barrett), which is a choice that they can make
It's worked out so far, and it's a choice that can potentially work out for the future too....though Book will need to improve his arm-strength and downfield throws in order to beat the high-level opponents we'd see in the palyoffs
Friedman wants Driskell to like him so much. I respect Driskell but often disagreed with him, and I 100% disagreed with him when he said wimbush not hitting the net wasn’t a big deal. That was a huge alarm.Yeah, I said knowledgeable analysts.
A bunch of guys who have never even played football, let alone coached it....and never even sniffed doing any of that at the college level......
Like I said:
There is a reason the actual coaches started Wimbush
There is a reason that every KNOWLEDGEABLE analyst said Wimbush was better all off-season
Kelly/Long just didn't want to cater the offense to Wimbush's skillset (power-spread, ala Ohio State w. JT Barrett), which is a choice that they can make
It's worked out so far, and it's a choice that can potentially work out for the future too....though Book will need to improve his arm-strength and downfield throws in order to beat the high-level opponents we'd see in the palyoffs
You're so stupid, it's almost like you have to be trolling.
Driskell HATES me because I keep reminding him of his "Math is Racist" comments, and other such stupidity.
I credit him as a football analyst, and I criticize/laugh-at him if/when he goes into other areas (statistics, etc) and fails.
Laughing at idiots like? ..... That's just icing on the cake
But I'll never stop laughing at a "baseball analyst" trying to pass himself off as knowledgeable about football, beyond the level of any casual fan
Why is there an argument over who the coaches thought were better during the off season ? That's silly. None of that matters. Clearly the coaching staff thought Wimbush was better or he wouldn't of started the first 3 games of the season.
I guess i don't see why any of that matters now though .. as of 10-8-2018 Book is the #1 quarterback. It took several years and thousands of reps but he was FINALLY promoted and now the position and offense is much better off for it.
Theories that the coaching staff didn't want to "change their offense for wimbush" (whatever the hell that means) don't hold up to logic. The entire offense was built with Wimbush's skill set in mind -- he was next in line dating back to Kizer's 2016 departure for the NFL .. bottom line is, despite the coaching staff trying over and over again to get Wimbush right (because they were enamored with his tools), there was a less physically gifted, but better quarterback overall on the roster the entire time.
Brian Kelly kept rolling Wimbush out there stubbornly giving him opportunity after opportunity to get right to a fault. It took a 'leaving no doubt' 40+ pt, 70%+, 4TD eruption vs Wake Forest (on the part of Ian Book) to put the final nail in the coffin on Wimbush's tenure as a starter quarterback.
Since then Book has done nothing but make a ton of plays, produce stats that leave Wimbush in the dirt, and command an offense that anybody with any amount of common sense can see runs remarkably better with him in charge.
Ian Book is far and away the better option of the two .. it's a failure on the coaching staff that it took them THIS LONG to assess the situation correctly/get it right. If ND continues to surprise and make the playoff going forward, the difference between Ian Book and Brandon Wimbush's performance at QB will likely be one of the biggest reasons why.
I guess i don't see why any of that matters now though .. as of 10-8-2018 Book is the #1 quarterback. It took several years and thousands of reps but he was FINALLY promoted and now the position and offense is much better off for it.
Theories that the coaching staff didn't want to "change their offense for wimbush" (whatever the hell that means) don't hold up to logic. The entire offense was built with Wimbush's skill set in mind -- he was next in line dating back to Kizer's 2016 departure for the NFL .. bottom line is, despite the coaching staff trying over and over again to get Wimbush right (because they were enamored with his tools), there was a less physically gifted, but better quarterback overall on the roster the entire time.
Brian Kelly kept rolling Wimbush out there stubbornly giving him opportunity after opportunity to get right to a fault. It took a 'leaving no doubt' 40+ pt, 70%+, 4TD eruption vs Wake Forest (on the part of Ian Book) to put the final nail in the coffin on Wimbush's tenure as a starter quarterback.
Since then Book has done nothing but make a ton of plays, produce stats that leave Wimbush in the dirt, and command an offense that anybody with any amount of common sense can see runs remarkably better with him in charge.
Ian Book is far and away the better option of the two .. it's a failure on the coaching staff that it took them THIS LONG to assess the situation correctly/get it right. If ND continues to surprise and make the playoff going forward, the difference between Ian Book and Brandon Wimbush's performance at QB will likely be one of the biggest reasons why.
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It's okay.
I'd run from the actual discussion too, if I was getting as badly humiliated as you are ITT
The best part is.....you actually thought it was a good idea to bump this!
Yeah........
You're as wrong here as you are every time you try to "defend yourself" in a recruiting thread.
I'd suggest rereading the thread and learning why everything you just said is stupid.
Or better yet, just sitting quietly in the corner before you embarrass yourself further.
There is a reason this is being dicussed, and any literate person would/could see that
Not running from you little guy, just find it so hard to believe someone would hate you.It's okay.
I'd run from the actual discussion too, if I was getting as badly humiliated as you are ITT
The best part is.....you actually thought it was a good idea to bump this!
NOW back to football, I don’t think either of us could clearly say who the coaches thought had a better offseason. Driskell is I believe the only analyst who I heard say wimbush had a better offseason, not taking a shot at him but he is legitimately the only one I remember him saying that, much more people said Book was better. Lights out 3rd highest completion % in the country good? No, but at least very accurate and quick to release the ball.
My key question, do you really think the coaches make a change at QB, with a starter who is 12-3 and 3-0 in the year, if they didn’t know they could get better production based off what they had seen all offseason. You don’t make a change at 3-0 unless you know for a fact that Book was truly better, and you were hoping BW would gradually improve from what he was in the offseason.
Why in the world would the coaches make a change at 3-0 when wimbush was better than him for 9 months?
As a matter of fact: wimbush was CLEARLY the guy going into and during spring, and AFTER fall camp BK stated both QB’s would play. So wimbush outperforms Book all offseason, but Bk just feels like saying both QB’s are going to play?
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So you think the coaches started the player that they thought was worse, despite having arguably the hardest game of the season Week 1....with their jobs on the line??
Wow.
You're even dumber than I thought.
Again:
- There is a reason the actual coaches started Wimbush
- There is a reason that every KNOWLEDGEABLE analyst said Wimbush was better all off-season
Thank you again for bumping this thread, and reminding us all of your stupidity
Wait wait wait, if wimbush was clearly the guy in the spring, why did BK state both qb’s would play after fall camp? And yes, they played wimbush against Michigan for 2 reasons
1- they didn’t want book’s 2nd start and first since they played a joke of a team in North Carolina to be against the best defense they play all year, they just didn’t know if he could handle the pressure, which he can
2- The entire system was built around wimbush all offseason, designed to beat Michigan going back to spring because they assumed wimbush would progress, which he did the opposite. You’re not going to switch starters when you have a system in place.
You'll never learn, will you?
I guess that how someone turns out as stupid as you.
1.) Learn what "coach speak" is, and note that same thing has been said about Wimbush, with Book as the starter
2.) You're finally right....the coaches started the QB who had been better all off-season, because they were playing hte best defense they'd face all season in Week 1.
Glad you finally admitted how stupid your initial contention was.
Thanks!!
So wimbush had such a great offseason (which he didn’t, he clearly regressed) that he went from being the clear cut guy, to splitting time and getting pulled anytime within the 10 yard line?
The only time you pull your 3-0 starter is if you know what you have behind him is better, and they clearly knew that from all offseason of book being the better player, because news flash, wimbush is not in the same galaxy as Book. We both know if the coaches could do it over they’d have crafted the offense around Book from the spring, and he would have started against Michigan. Cmon now son, Book had the better offseason because he is the better player, and it’s not even CLOSE
It's absolutely great watching you got through "mental backflips" (not that you can actually think) trying to argue that the coaches decided to start the worse player......despite playing the best defense of the season during Week 1, with their jobs on the line.
Obviously, you're argument is retarded and you're just an idiot.
Again:
- There is a reason the actual coaches started Wimbush
- There is a reason that every KNOWLEDGEABLE analyst said Wimbush was better all off-season
So they switched to Book.
And that's a decision that they can make, it's fine, and it's worked out so far.
Hopefully Book improves his arm-strength and technique on downfield throws, as we'll need it aginst the higher level teams we'd face in the Playoffs or a NY6 Bowl.
The offense was tailored to Wimbush and has been since Kizer left nearly 2 years ago -- Ian Book only had a package built for him that ND was using in the red zone -- everything else was built specifically to maximize what Wimbush could do best. He had been the starter since Kizer left.
In terms of who had the better off season, nobody knows for sure. But the coaching staff seemed to get single vision on Wimbush though, because from the day Book took control of the offense, he was miles and away better than Wimbush.
I would place the blame on the coaching staff for having a bad off season more than Book. Book is the better QB, but the coaching staff assessed the situation incorrectly and it almost cost them wins earlier in the season .. games vs Ball St and Vanderbilt were way too close for comfort ..
This Ian Book led offense would have likely put up 40-50+ on those teams easily.
This is just wrong.
The offense was not tailored to Wimbush in 2018, at all. It was in 2017, but in 2018....Kelly/Long decided not to tailor the offense to Wimbush. Either he adjusted or they would eventually switch to Book.
Again:
- There is a reason the actual coaches started Wimbush
- There is a reason that every KNOWLEDGEABLE analyst said Wimbush was better all off-season
So they switched to Book.
And that's a decision that they can make, it's fine, and it's worked out so far.
Wimbush was named the starting QB almost immediately after Kizer left .. Wimbush has had two full camps/off-seasons as the starter/#1 quarterback .. the idea that the coaching staff wouldn't tailor the offense to maximize what he does best is silly/illogical.
Heading into camp it was Wimbush's job .. nobody not directly involved in the program (coaches, players, etc.) has any special insight into how the QBs looked during fall camp other than a few short clips and second hand information. NDs practices and information are so closed off to the public/media these days that ND "insiders"/analysts have about as much credibility/information to go off of as a garden variety forum contributor.
Clearly Book is/was the better QB (the coaching staff was slow to come around to seeing it ) i'm just glad they eventually recognized a switch needed to be made and made it before it was too late
Heading into camp it was Wimbush's job .. nobody not directly involved in the program (coaches, players, etc.) has any special insight into how the QBs looked during fall camp other than a few short clips and second hand information. NDs practices and information are so closed off to the public/media these days that ND "insiders"/analysts have about as much credibility/information to go off of as a garden variety forum contributor.
Clearly Book is/was the better QB (the coaching staff was slow to come around to seeing it ) i'm just glad they eventually recognized a switch needed to be made and made it before it was too late
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Book would die in a lower spread system. He’s not a 20+ carry/game kind of QB, obviously. Nor should he be.
But that system can work and work on the highest level. See Ohio State with Pryor, Miller, Barrett, etc.
There is more than 1 way to win big, as Alabama has shown.
