I believe that confidence is the issue. He has the talent. I remember my junior year of high school I had no confidence as a first year starter at linebacker and I sucked. I became a leader that off-season and worked my butt off and I was the cockiest most confident player on the team next year and became an all district player with over 100 tackles. We have to trust in wimbush. Book isn't dynamic enough to be a playoff qb imo
Wimbush
- Thread starter NDIRISH53
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I agree with you however by game 3 if the same erratic play is displayed BK needs to make a change.
Vince Young and Tim Tebow couldn`t hit water throwing a football if they fell off a boat. Wimbush just needs to run the ball more and throw the 2 or 3 lucky lame duck passes like those two. We will just need to accept the risk of injury with more Wimbush runs and be prepare with the consequences.
I would say if the erratic play continues he needs to be pulled by the second qtr of the first game. If BK waits until the 3rd game we could 0-3.
On the contrary. I do like BW and I am pulling for him. I think he has the physical tools to be one of best college QB's in the nation. He just has to get his mental game going.
In college football today, how many QB’s have similar skills? How many have strong arms and can run?
If running and throwing were the only skills or traits needed to be a QB, finding one would be so much easier.
I think you're remembering the VY and TB of the NFL. In college they were both effective passers of the ball. They both had jerky passing mechanics but both could complete a simple crossing pattern 9.5/10 times unlike BW.
Yep, I love how some fans are so delusional that we are comparing Wimbush to national champions/Heisman trophy winners. Wimbush couldn't hold their jock at the college level, the only thing he does is run fast. He can't make reads, isn't accurate at all, and doesn't see the field. I pray Brian Kelly sees this and gives Book a legitimate chance, if not it will be another 9 and 3 season where we lose to any team that can make us one dimensional.
What game in 2017 makes you think we could lose to a team like Ball State or Vanderbilt with Wimbush at the helm?
Wimbush beat every single non-Top25 team he faced and several of the Top25 teams he faced
If Wimbush the starter, he needs be on a leash and Book needs to be ready....but putting him on that type of "insanely short leash" is more likely to damage Wimbush's quality of play than anything else, imo.
Wimbush needs to improve, but somehow people on this board seem to have mentally transformed the play of a "high potential, but erratic 10 Win QB" into that of a completely worthless QB who couldn't lead his team to 3 wins
Book should get more than a legit change. It should be a completely open QB competition, with the best player taking the spot.
That being said, it seems ridiculous to me to assume that Wimbush didn't do some really good things in 2017 or that he can't improve in 2018 and lead the team into a big season.
He has shown that he CAN do a TON more than just run fast.
He did fine against teams with mediocre front 7s. When he faced legit teams, (teams you have to beat to make the playoff) He sh*t down his leg. Miami, Stanford, and LSU were all horrible performances. If it wasn't for Book coming to the rescue in the LSU game, the team would have never gotten to 10 wins. So when you argue that he is an erratic 10 win QB, I would argue that he is more of an 8 or 9 win QB at best particularly with ND's tough schedule.
I'm not trying to bash him, he seems like a very good kid and he is talented. I'm just sick and tired of watching a program that is happy with 8-10 wins when 10 wins should be the norm and the opportunity is there to make the playoff. Not to mention no team is going anywhere in a spread offense with a QB that can't read a defense or complete a screen pass.
You're just picking and choosing games to look at, in order to make that argument.
NC State and Michigan State both had VERY GOOD front-7's...and those were some of Wimbush's best games
Not to mention the fact that the Wimbush-led ND team actually won 10 games against one of the hardest/deepest schedules in recent ND history, which included 7 games against Top25 opponents. The 2018 version is likely to be easier.
Wimbush played poorly at times, but you're attempting to act like that was the only way he played, which is both inaccurate and foolish.
We need a competition to force BOTH Wimbush and Book to improve, and start the player ready to help ND more. However, there is a reason Wimbush started over Book for virtually all of 2018 and a reason he's considered the "leader in the club house" for the 2018 starting job, at the moment
There is absolutely no reason that ND can't repeat as a 10+ win team with Wimbush at QB (again) or do even better
I agree that it should be a fair competition between the two, that will only make them both better. NC State isn't on the same level as Georgia, Miami, Stanford, and LSU. My point was he struggled badly against the best teams he faced. The Wimbush led team won 9 games not 10, Kelly had to pull him against LSU he was struggling so bad and Book saved the day. I'll give you Michigan State but they turned it over almost every time they had the ball which gave him great field position time and time again.
Early in the season BW ran the ball way too often when the competition was weaker. When he entered the second half and the competition was tougher, he had a one dimensional offense. He did not use the early games to learn to check down receivers and learn to be a passer. You can't beat good teams with a one dimensional offense. Certainly was the right plan against UGA because first
game. Also, Kelly has to win those early games, so going with BW strength was a good plan. But he paid the price as the season wore on. Now BW knows how to run, so no excuses, he must be able to hit his receivers this year.
game. Also, Kelly has to win those early games, so going with BW strength was a good plan. But he paid the price as the season wore on. Now BW knows how to run, so no excuses, he must be able to hit his receivers this year.
Based on what is NC State's Front-7 not as good as Georgia or Miami's?
They have a potential #1 Overall Pick at DE, with 2-3 additional NFL Draft Picks IN THIS UPCOMING DRAFT, with at least 1 of those being a Day 2 Pick.
Additionally Michigan State was a Top15 Defense in 2017, based largely on the success of their Front-7. While it doesn't have the raw talent of NC State's, it was even more productive. Furthermore, turnovers on the offense aren't what caused Wimbush to have one of his best passing games against Michigan State.
So, in what way was Wimbush bad against all of the best teams he faced? Those 2 teams are ABSOLUTELY on the same level as Georgia, Miami, and LSU...as far as the FRont-7's go.
Furthermore, Wimbush was the starter for all but 1 game (North Carolina) for a 10-win season....so he absolutely led the team to 10 wins. Just like Kizer led ND to 10 wins, even though he didn't play for the Texas game in 2015.
You just seem to have decided how Wimbush is (or is not) going to improve this off-season and play in 2018, before even having a QB competition.
I can't believe this is even an argument, Wimbush had a completion percentage under 50 percent for the year! It isn't opinion, it's a fact that he was bad at throwing the football last year. Yes, he started the game against LSU and was taken out because he was playing like sh*t. Had he stayed in the game it was a loss. With him at QB (unless he makes a big jump) ND is a one dimensional team and is likely guaranteed 3 or 4 losses. I hope Book wins the job.
If ND gets by Michigan, ND has a great shot at going into the FSU game undefeated. Wimbush does not need to be Sammy Baugh to accomplish that.
MSU did not have a good front 7. They had 2 high 4 star D Ends get kicked out and started walk ons along the d line. NC State did have a top 5 d line however
You’re confusing recruiting rankings with actual quality of a unit.
Michigan state what is the number to run defense in all of college football, and a top 25 scoring defense as well.
They absolutely had a very good front 7
Kelly said his footwork is fixed and he’s looking infinitely better and ready to roll.
disagree. you have to be able to execute the entire playbook. its not a lack of ability its inconsistent fundamentals. wimbush like every player needs to continue to improve.
Well i agree you cant only have short easy reads in your playbook, but it helps settle someone down to run those plays early
You need to realize that a large number of posters on this particular board don’t really follow things & just come on to complain.
We have access to ND, Midwest, regional & national analyst to discuss the reality of things not just random people throwing out their opinion. When someone says something stupid like what he is claiming they get ran off fast.
MSU has a really good defense. Even BC had a good defense. NC State had a top 3 front 4 in the nation. Heck, if you want to just talk recruiting rankings, USC was stacked with 4 & 5 Stars.
Bad coaching will bring even the best talent back to the pack, whereas good developmental talent will elevate and get the most out of players.
So what service would you recommend for best info. If you want to send it privately it is zonairish@gmail.com
So then, by your own admission, Michigan State had a very good Front-7...likely as a result of the high level of coaching that the players received
Glad we're on the same page now
Both Michigan State and North Carolina State had VERY GOOD Front-7's, and ND (with Wimbush at the helm) had success against both of them
Lol okay bro. Guess I'm stupid for pointing out sparty lost 2 high 4 star d ends and played a couple walk ons... that defensive line did not impress me. Linebackers weren't that talented just dirty players
You're definitely stupid if you're relying on recruiting rankings to evaluate the quality of a unit, when we have their actual on-field production on which to base an evaluation.
Recruiting rankings are correlated (somewhat loosely) with on-field success, and thus are used as a predictor of future success in discussions where actual on-field success is not available as a metric.
Once actual on-field success (or lack there of) is available for analysis, citing recruiting rankings as a method of evaluating the unit over said on-field success is, well.......it's so unbelievably stupid, words can't really describe it
By that logic players like JJ Watt and Clay Mathews would be considered unimpressive when looking back on whether their DL's were good....because those players were walk-ons
JJ Watt and Clay Mathews were hard to predict, because they were walk-ons
But once you're looking backwards, and have actual on-field success with which to evaluate, its easier to see they were good DLs
Similarily, we have Michigan State's on-field success available to us for 2017....and it's similarly clear that the #7 Rush Defense in all of CFB was a VERY GOOD Front-7
Sorry bro. I should have realized that sparty had jj watt and clay Matthews at d end. My bad
I did not think MSU was an outstanding defense in ‘17. NCST had Chubb, (no Chubb: otherwise decent).
FYI, I am in the Wimbush camp.
Watch out.... some on this board will crucify you for saying Sparty didn't have an amazing defensive front. They had the future JJ watt and clay Matthews at defensive end don't you know?
So you’re going to Saint recruiting rankings and wait, and the time to ignore how the players actually performed on the field. And you can’t see why I laugh at you, and call your opinion mine numbingly stupid? Seriously??
Again, but your line of thinking players like JJ Watt, Clay Matthews, and Aaron Donald would all be terrible, because they’re either walk on’s for on the small side for their position.
Those types of analytics are only useful before we see them play at the level or attempting to evaluate. Once we have on field results to use, those are the only things that matter.
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