Where does this class finish

[burmafrd1943]

With the portal being used so often now, quite often you can at least strengthen a position that turns out weak quickly.

At first I was really leery about it, but I can see that while it certainly is not a cure all, it can help a lot. Certainly is going to help us this year at QB. Coan did well for us; and there will be more.

Now the drawbacks are that it certainly allows players to basically audition at one school and go to another; and of course this does mean that rosters are no where near as stable as they once were.

 

[buckey]

A couple of good points.

And though I don't know how ND will finish down the stretch THIS YEAR, it SELDOM CLOSES STRONG and only RARELY does that MUST-UBER-ALLES recruit sign with ND.

But if you've guessed right on a 15th to 20th finish, that's BOB DAVIE TERRITORY, and we all know what happened there.

As for the whole FOLLOW-RECRUITING enterprise, it strikes me mainly as one of WISH FULFILLMENT where hope ALWAYS springs eternal . . . that is, until signing day arrives and the narrative switches to MISSION ALMOST ACCOMPLISHED.

Honestly, what could be more BAKED INTO THE CAKE given all of the well-known obstacles ND imposes on itself.

The classes are almost uniformly VERY GOOD without EVER being PARAMOUNT. But then, VERY GOOD is all that's required for BRAND NAME MAINTENANCE as nothing keeps fanbases HUNGRIER.

I think 10th is realistic. But you consistently imply nd should do something different to become “football elite” while maintaining its academic standards. What might that be?

 

[sjb75]

I think 10th is realistic. But you consistently imply nd should do something different to become “football elite” while maintaining its academic standards. What might that be?

A 500 word response 50% in bold and CAPS upcoming.

 

[NDDadx3]

A 500 word response 50% in bold and CAPS upcoming.

And after reading it you will be stupider

 

[4-4-3]

I think 10th is realistic. But you consistently imply nd should do something different to become “football elite” while maintaining its academic standards. What might that be?

I wasn’t implying that ND should do anything because I doubt that it ever will.

I was only observing that given its self-imposed limitations, ND’s recruiting outcomes are highly unlikely to live up to the unrealistic expectations lavished on them each year by the same cadre of undeterred enthusiasts.

After all, it’s been THIRTY-THREE YEARS since ND had a #1 class.

After three Faust #1 classes and a fourth -- Tim Brown's -- which may have been better than the three #1’s, PLUS four #1 classes in a row under Holtz – meaning SIX #1 classes in the 80’s, all told, plus the final one in 1990 – something obviously changed – RIGHT?

So, if ND is to acquire a #1 class again, presumably something would need to CHANGE BACK. But as I’ve indicated, I don’t see that happening. Again, what I wonder about is what MAGIC TRICK others are waiting for?

Holtz and his MAGIC TRICKS are gone.

But other than REPLICATE the conditions Faust and he enjoyed – WHATEVER THOSE WERE, BY THE WAY – I don’t see a PATH to recruiting supremacy.

It’s like ORTHODOX JEWS waiting for THEIR Messiah.

GOOD LUCK TO THEM!

 

[NDDadx3]

I wasn’t implying that ND should do anything because I doubt that it ever will.

I was only observing that given its self-imposed limitations, ND’s recruiting outcomes are highly unlikely to live up to the unrealistic expectations lavished on them each year by the same cadre of undeterred enthusiasts.

After all, it’s been THIRTY-THREE YEARS since ND had a #1 class.

After three Faust #1 classes and a fourth -- Tim Brown's -- which may have been better than the three #1’s, PLUS four #1 classes in a row under Holtz – meaning SIX #1 classes in the 80’s, all told, plus the final one in 1990 – something obviously changed – RIGHT?

So, if ND is to acquire a #1 class again, presumably something would need to CHANGE BACK. But as I’ve indicated, I don’t see that happening. Again, what I wonder about is what MAGIC TRICK others are waiting for?

Holtz and his MAGIC TRICKS are gone.

But other than REPLICATE the conditions Faust and he enjoyed – WHATEVER THOSE WERE, BY THE WAY – I don’t see a PATH to recruiting supremacy.

It’s like ORTHODOX JEWS waiting for THEIR Messiah.

GOOD LUCK TO THEM!

Mike Dubose, Dennis Franchione and Mike Shula could not consistently recruit or win at Alabama … that was a hopeless decade and Bama was a shadow of their past self. Charlie Weis out recruited Brian Kelly but couldn’t come close to his teams player development or performances. You are taking a very simple and gloomy view on things.

 

[baron100]

I wasn’t implying that ND should do anything because I doubt that it ever will.

I was only observing that given its self-imposed limitations, ND’s recruiting outcomes are highly unlikely to live up to the unrealistic expectations lavished on them each year by the same cadre of undeterred enthusiasts.

After all, it’s been THIRTY-THREE YEARS since ND had a #1 class.

After three Faust #1 classes and a fourth -- Tim Brown's -- which may have been better than the three #1’s, PLUS four #1 classes in a row under Holtz – meaning SIX #1 classes in the 80’s, all told, plus the final one in 1990 – something obviously changed – RIGHT?

So, if ND is to acquire a #1 class again, presumably something would need to CHANGE BACK. But as I’ve indicated, I don’t see that happening. Again, what I wonder about is what MAGIC TRICK others are waiting for?

Holtz and his MAGIC TRICKS are gone.

But other than REPLICATE the conditions Faust and he enjoyed – WHATEVER THOSE WERE, BY THE WAY – I don’t see a PATH to recruiting supremacy.

It’s like ORTHODOX JEWS waiting for THEIR Messiah.

GOOD LUCK TO THEM!

So what exactly needs to change? It’s been done repeatedly in the past so no reason to assume it can’t be done again. when I think back on Faust I think of an entirely different era. He arrived with possibly more fanfare than any ND coach ever. An absolute legend in HS ranks, devout Roman Catholic and Holtz like enthusiasm and positivity. He took over from Devine, not well liked but successful AND importantly nd was still nd. the 70’s had been a good decade for nd with 2 natties and our schedules then were epic—Faust’s first year we played LSU, #13 PSU, # 9 miami, #5 usc, #20 FSU and #11 mich. Filler games were MSU, GTECH, Purdue. My point is nd was at the top of the mountain then and took on all comers. Faust maybe the only HS football coach with a 60 min segment, it was that kind of excitement. And there was at least the perception that he was a great coach. As for Holtz, no one sold nd and sold it better than Holtz. But importantly he had an amazing record of success wherever he had been, W&M, Ark, Minn.NC st,—— not premier programs and he turned them into winners. Bottom line, the guy could really coach! He had a record of success and development combined with salesmanship that would make PT Barnum blush. Todays ND is a lot different, football glory is a faded memory to the parents of recruits. And our HC doesn’t have the record of success ( w/l or development as a DC/OC). So 40 not 4 is the lead pitch and the finish, our HC relegated to taking shots at his Alma mater‘s academics. We have to defend our schedules and why we don’t play in a conference and will never play in a conference championship. That was never the case even 20/25 years ago, nd was known as playing anyone, anywhere and our schedules were epic. Freeman has a really tough job and I don’t think it’s about the ability to offer guys we really need. Look at the 5 stars and top 100 guys we’ve offered over the last 6/7 years its very much in line with USC/ok/tx/mich / Clemson/fla/ Osu. Signing these kids is more challenging and I think it’s a lot more about CMF as an unknown entity then anything else. What was Loves comment last year , “ I’ll take the chance”? A hugely likable guy, but can he coach and develop? After the Faust high wore off we still had some great players but were losing to avg teams and then jimmy johnson drove the spike home. Bottom line Faust really wasn’t a great coach—-he just had far superior talent at Moeller. Jury is out on Marcus , I mean we did beat Clemson last year so that’s a good start. he needs to generate a resume of success with top w’s and development of talent. Hopefully 23 moves the dial with him but if it doesn’t he deserves a 3 or 4 yr crack at it. Look at the comments from the bama commits — it’s constantly about playing and getting developed by the goat. Kids want to play for the best and get development by the best. Will Sarkisian or Riley ever be hurting for a quality qb?

 

[Harpo Marxist]

What was the single biggest factor in Freeman's selection as head coach? One could argue that he was the only one who could hold the team together, including the then recruits, and that was the reason. Otherwise, what was that one factor? Recruiting prowess and promise? Youth and charisma? If it was recruiting....then why is the defensive side of the ball (his specialty) lagging?

 

[Golson5]

What was the single biggest factor in Freeman's selection as head coach? One could argue that he was the only one who could hold the team together, including the then recruits, and that was the reason. Otherwise, what was that one factor? Recruiting prowess and promise? Youth and charisma? If it was recruiting....then why is the defensive side of the ball (his specialty) lagging?

1. Being a top defensive coach

2. Recruiting

And the other things you mentioned were a factor as well

Since hes been here as a DC and HC recruiting has improved. But he needs to win on the field this year for it to take another jump. If he does, watch out. If he doesn't we'll still land really good classes just not elite ones

 

[wfeldmann]

The class will finish around the 9 to 13 range. ND rarely makes any late signings and other teams will and pull ahead. Same thing every year

 

[baron100]

What was the single biggest factor in Freeman's selection as head coach? One could argue that he was the only one who could hold the team together, including the then recruits, and that was the reason. Otherwise, what was that one factor? Recruiting prowess and promise? Youth and charisma? If it was recruiting....then why is the defensive side of the ball (his specialty) lagging?

I think that’s right , and several players indicated they would hit the portal. At least sneed said he wouldn’t be part of the recruiting class and maybe more. So, yeah as a recruiter , lots of charisma , definitely youth/energy. What did we end up in total defense in 21? High 30’s/40’s? And if I remember correctly we were in the 70’s heading into November and we then played for style points against butter schedule. I’ve never heard anyone say cmf was considered a master d schemer and developer of talent. It was all about recruiting potential and keeping the team together. Re listen to jacks press conference after bk left—- thorough search / players may have input but won’t decide. In 36 hours jack realized players have juice now —- players coach. Unfortunately we don’t have Larry Coker talent now

 

[FightingIrish44]

I think that’s right , and several players indicated they would hit the portal. At least sneed said he wouldn’t be part of the recruiting class and maybe more. So, yeah as a recruiter , lots of charisma , definitely youth/energy. What did we end up in total defense in 21? High 30’s/40’s? And if I remember correctly we were in the 70’s heading into November and we then played for style points against butter schedule. I’ve never heard anyone say cmf was considered a master d schemer and developer of talent. It was all about recruiting potential and keeping the team together. Re listen to jacks press conference after bk left—- thorough search / players may have input but won’t decide. In 36 hours jack realized players have juice now —- players coach. Unfortunately we don’t have Larry Coker talent now

2021 defense:

Scoring defense: 14th
Total Defense: 43rd

They feasted against a bad Navy team and then three teams that had their starting QB’s out if I’m not mistaken.

Then they got shredded against Okie State. 600+ yards and 37 points given up. Should have been another 10-17 points given up as well.

 

[baron100]

2021 defense:

Scoring defense: 14th
Total Defense: 43rd

They feasted against a bad Navy team and then three teams that had their starting QB’s out if I’m not mistaken.

Then they got shredded against Okie State. 600+ yards and 37 points given up. Should have been another 10-17 points given up as well

 

[baron100]

Well scoring d was better ‘then I remembered. And as ugly as it was I don’t want to put a lot of weight on okie st game. Freeman’s first crack and clearly he wasn’t really comfortable. lesser bowl games are pretty meaningless now with all the guys sitting out. I know Hamilton was out can’t remember who else. Not making excuses for cmf , ( same reason i don’t give a lot of credit for SC game— we had 4 premier guys out and SC had 19 or 20 along with 9 or 10 starters) , bowl games don’t mean much. Definitely wasn’t desert storm though

 

[Golson5]

Ok

2021 defense:

Scoring defense: 14th
Total Defense: 43rd

They feasted against a bad Navy team and then three teams that had their starting QB’s out if I’m not mistaken.

Then they got shredded against Okie State. 600+ yards and 37 points given up. Should have been another 10-17 points given up as well.

Ok state had a good O. And it was Elston running the D

 

[sjb75]

Well scoring d was better ‘then I remembered. And as ugly as it was I don’t want to put a lot of weight on okie st game. Freeman’s first crack and clearly he wasn’t really comfortable. lesser bowl games are pretty meaningless now with all the guys sitting out. I know Hamilton was out can’t remember who else. Not making excuses for cmf , ( same reason i don’t give a lot of credit for SC game— we had 4 premier guys out and SC had 19 or 20 along with 9 or 10 starters) , bowl games don’t mean much. Definitely wasn’t desert storm though

I credit any win. Who South Carolina did not have I could not care less.

 

[4-4-3]

Mike Dubose, Dennis Franchione and Mike Shula could not consistently recruit or win at Alabama … that was a hopeless decade and Bama was a shadow of their past self. Charlie Weis out recruited Brian Kelly but couldn’t come close to his teams player development or performances. You are taking a very simple and gloomy view on things.

I disagree.

My view isn’t gloomy. It’s fact-based. Although it may be gloomy to others.

Comparing what happens at ND to what happens at Alabama HAS LIMITS. The two schools don’t approach football with anything approaching the same level of COMMITMENT.

Notre Dame’s problems can never be Alabama’s TO THE SAME EXTENT.

How do we know this?

Saban did better after Alabama FIXED THINGS with HIM following the 10 uneven years there than Kelly was able to do after ND landed HIM following the 13 mediocre years post-Holtz.

Alabama went pedal to the metal. ND didn’t – BECAUSE IT CAN’T.

There’s a STRUCTURAL DIFFERENTIAL between the two schools in that ND requires its athletes to be STUDENTS. On a pure numbers basis, a FILTER like that translates to NARROWER RECRUITING BANDWIDTH – as in FEWER OPPORTUNITIES.

As for the argument many make that Saban is God-Almighty as a coach and Kelly some sort of GOOD-COACH-IMPOSTER, I’ve always maintained that Alabama has made Saban as much as he’s made Alabama, while ND was more detrimental to what Kelly could do than Kelly was to ND.

Had Kelly been at Alabama the last 15 years, there’s no doubt he would have been successful and, more likely, more so than he was at ND. Whereas Saban at ND would NOT have won all of those titles. When Saban has the horses, HE’S DAMN HARD TO BEAT. But he hasn’t always had them, and HE WOULDN’T HAVE at ND.

ND IS BY DEFINITION NOT FULLY COMMITTED. AND THAT’S A FACT THAT ONLY ND CAN CHANGE – OR NOT.

But, again, I don’t see it happening. As long as ND STAYS GOOD ENOUGH to maintain its BRAND IMAGE, while continuing to MAKE MONEY, it’s the PERFECT OUTCOME for those in charge, none of whom apparently PRIORITIZE football.

WHICH IS IN NO WAY THE CASE AT ALABAMA.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Well scoring d was better ‘then I remembered. And as ugly as it was I don’t want to put a lot of weight on okie st game. Freeman’s first crack and clearly he wasn’t really comfortable. lesser bowl games are pretty meaningless now with all the guys sitting out. I know Hamilton was out can’t remember who else. Not making excuses for cmf , ( same reason i don’t give a lot of credit for SC game— we had 4 premier guys out and SC had 19 or 20 along with 9 or 10 starters) , bowl games don’t mean much. Definitely wasn’t desert storm though

I don’t mean to be argumentative but just wanted to continue the discussion.

Fans might see the game as close to meaningless, but I highly doubt anyone playing or coaching in the game sees it that way. The only ND defender out was Hamilton and he had already missed the previous five or so games. That was ND’s starting defense getting torn up.

While it is true that it was Freeman’s first crack as a head coach, those were still his schemes, game planning, and players that he coached up for the whole year.

 

[baron100]

I don’t mean to be argumentative but just wanted to continue the discussion.

Fans might see the game as close to meaningless, but I highly doubt anyone playing or coaching in the game sees it that way. The only ND defender out was Hamilton and he had already missed the previous five or so games. That was ND’s starting defense getting torn up.

While it is true that it was Freeman’s first crack as a head coach, those were still his schemes, game planning, and players that he coached up for the whole year.

That’s fair

 

[4-4-3]

So what exactly needs to change? It’s been done repeatedly in the past so no reason to assume it can’t be done again. when I think back on Faust I think of an entirely different era. He arrived with possibly more fanfare than any ND coach ever. An absolute legend in HS ranks, devout Roman Catholic and Holtz like enthusiasm and positivity. He took over from Devine, not well liked but successful AND importantly nd was still nd. the 70’s had been a good decade for nd with 2 natties and our schedules then were epic—Faust’s first year we played LSU, #13 PSU, # 9 miami, #5 usc, #20 FSU and #11 mich. Filler games were MSU, GTECH, Purdue. My point is nd was at the top of the mountain then and took on all comers. Faust maybe the only HS football coach with a 60 min segment, it was that kind of excitement. And there was at least the perception that he was a great coach. As for Holtz, no one sold nd and sold it better than Holtz. But importantly he had an amazing record of success wherever he had been, W&M, Ark, Minn.NC st,—— not premier programs and he turned them into winners. Bottom line, the guy could really coach! He had a record of success and development combined with salesmanship that would make PT Barnum blush. Todays ND is a lot different, football glory is a faded memory to the parents of recruits. And our HC doesn’t have the record of success ( w/l or development as a DC/OC). So 40 not 4 is the lead pitch and the finish, our HC relegated to taking shots at his Alma mater‘s academics. We have to defend our schedules and why we don’t play in a conference and will never play in a conference championship. That was never the case even 20/25 years ago, nd was known as playing anyone, anywhere and our schedules were epic. Freeman has a really tough job and I don’t think it’s about the ability to offer guys we really need. Look at the 5 stars and top 100 guys we’ve offered over the last 6/7 years its very much in line with USC/ok/tx/mich / Clemson/fla/ Osu. Signing these kids is more challenging and I think it’s a lot more about CMF as an unknown entity then anything else. What was Loves comment last year , “ I’ll take the chance”? A hugely likable guy, but can he coach and develop? After the Faust high wore off we still had some great players but were losing to avg teams and then jimmy johnson drove the spike home. Bottom line Faust really wasn’t a great coach—-he just had far superior talent at Moeller. Jury is out on Marcus , I mean we did beat Clemson last year so that’s a good start. he needs to generate a resume of success with top w’s and development of talent. Hopefully 23 moves the dial with him but if it doesn’t he deserves a 3 or 4 yr crack at it. Look at the comments from the bama commits — it’s constantly about playing and getting developed by the goat. Kids want to play for the best and get development by the best. Will Sarkisian or Riley ever be hurting for a quality qb?

If you want to become the best, you have to do better than what the current pacesetter is doing. You have to beat him at his own game. And that must be your total and UNMITIGATED FOCUS.

Which is EXACTLY what Holtz and ND did to Johnson and Miami a mere three years after FAUST & CO suffered a HUMILIATION FOR THE AGES.

Fast forward to today . . .

How can ND beat the best program at its own game when it continues to play by a set of rules which DOES NOT include that UNIFOCAL approach?

Where's the solution to THAT?

THERE ISN'T ANY.

You do your best and hope to catch LIGHTNING IN A BOTTLE like BYU and Boise State once did.

OR . .

THAT DAY NEVER COMES like it doesn't for MOST teams.

If ND fails to get its share of the VERY BEST PLAYERS, will Marcus Freeman's coaching brilliance prove to be so superior that it won't matter, and ND will go -- ALL -- THE -- WAY?

Who knows? But I've seen ZERO EVIDENCE of THAT likelihood, SO FAR.

 

[sjb75]

If you want to become the best, you have to do better than what the current pacesetter is doing. You have to beat him at his own game. And that must be your total and UNMITIGATED FOCUS.

Which is EXACTLY what Holtz and ND did to Johnson and Miami a mere two years after FAUST & CO suffered a HUMILIATION FOR THE AGES.

Fast forward to today . . .

How can ND beat the best program at its own game when it continues to play by a set of rules which DOES NOT include that UNIFOCAL approach?

Where's the solution to THAT?

THERE ISN'T ANY.

You do your best and hope to catch LIGHTNING IN A BOTTLE like BYU and Boise State once did.

OR . .

THAT DAY NEVER COMES like it doesn't for MOST teams.

If ND fails to get its share of the VERY BEST PLAYERS, will Marcus Freeman's coaching brilliance prove to be so superior that it won't matter, and ND will go -- ALL -- THE -- WAY?

Who knows? But I've seen ZERO EVIDENCE of THAT likelihood, SO FAR.

Does anyone have Advil?

 

[4-4-3]

What was the single biggest factor in Freeman's selection as head coach? One could argue that he was the only one who could hold the team together, including the then recruits, and that was the reason. Otherwise, what was that one factor? Recruiting prowess and promise? Youth and charisma? If it was recruiting....then why is the defensive side of the ball (his specialty) lagging?

Like all coaching hires, he was a GAMBLE, a RISK.

But I wonder if they didn't think that the reward -- ASSUMING THERE WOULD BE ONE -- would be multi-faceted and fit a CERTAIN NARRATIVE.

Youth
Charisma
Mixed race background
Player support

The complete GENERATIONAL/SOCIOLOGICAL STATEMENT.

Whether he could actually produce winning teams was something they were willing to FIND OUT.

I mean, what else can you do when someone has ZERO HEAD COACHING EXPERIENCE.

As a bet, I saw it as AGGRESSIVE and, if wrong, with a STEEP DOWNSIDE.

 

[Golson5]

Like all coaching hires, he was a GAMBLE, a RISK.

But I wonder if they didn't think that the reward -- ASSUMING THERE WOULD BE ONE -- would be multi-faceted and fit a CERTAIN NARRATIVE.

Youth
Charisma
Mixed Race background
Player support

The complete GENERATIONAL/SOCIOLOGICAL STATEMENT.

Whether he could actually produce winning teams was something they were willing to FIND OUT.

I mean, what else can you do when someone has ZERO HEAD COACHING EXPERIENCE.

As a bet, I saw it as AGGRESSIVE and, if wrong, with a STEEP DOWNSIDE.

Yawn

 

[mirer03]

I think we've slipped at TE the last 2 years .

And I really like the DL class the last 2 years so Id say yes there

Dl as a whole is not gap closing. Great depth on edge but no elite rushers coming in...they may develop into elite but they aren't. The Dts are projects. Good upside but not guaranteed. Can't be gap closing with glaring size issues and projections.

I like the dl class, but it's top 20 not top 5.

 

[BGI User 1596]

Dl as a whole is not gap closing. Great depth on edge but no elite rushers coming in...they may develop into elite but they aren't. The Dts are projects. Good upside but not guaranteed. Can't be gap closing with glaring size issues and projections.

I like the dl class, but it's top 20 not top 5.

Certainly not Gap closing but he’s filling a few cracks!

 

[buckey]

Top classes require 5 star difference makers. We get very few because they have no incentive to be student athelete. It’s that simple. Northwestern, Stanford, bandy, rice, cal, all have similar issue, they just have good football programs. We do. So what 443 is trying to say, in fewer words for sure, is temper expectations and accept reality

 

[buckey]

Sorry. Vandy, and don’t have

 

[Golson5]

Dl as a whole is not gap closing. Great depth on edge but no elite rushers coming in...they may develop into elite but they aren't. The Dts are projects. Good upside but not guaranteed. Can't be gap closing with glaring size issues and projections.

I like the dl class, but it's top 20 not top 5.

Its not gap closing but not gap widening either. It's better than our recent DL classes. I dont think top 5 was what was asked because some others wouldn't be in there as well. And I'd say better than top 20 for sure

 

[4-4-3]

Top classes require 5 star difference makers. We get very few because they have no incentive to be student athelete. It’s that simple. Northwestern, Stanford, bandy, rice, cal, all have similar issue, they just have good football programs. We do. So what 443 is trying to say, in fewer words for sure, is temper expectations and accept reality

I would say one additional thing.

ND DOES REMARKABLY WELL UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

1. Being a top defensive coach

2. Recruiting

And the other things you mentioned were a factor as well

Since hes been here as a DC and HC recruiting has improved. But he needs to win on the field this year for it to take another jump. If he does, watch out. If he doesn't we'll still land really good classes just not elite o

I would say one additional thing.

ND DOES REMARKABLY WELL UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

Much of the circumstances are by design.

 

[sjb75]

Top classes require 5 star difference makers. We get very few because they have no incentive to be student athelete. It’s that simple. Northwestern, Stanford, bandy, rice, cal, all have similar issue, they just have good football programs. We do. So what 443 is trying to say, in fewer words for sure, is temper expectations and accept reality

Reality is that since the 4-team CFB Playoff started in 2014, seven teams have qualified twice. Notre Dame is one of them.

To win a CFB title, allowing your starting QB to spend 6 years in college and not graduate, like Stetson Bennett, obviously helps, which speaks loudly to the academic culture at the football factories, and Notre Dame will never, ever allow that to happen.

And frankly, good for Notre Dame.

 

[NDDadx3]

I disagree.

My view isn’t gloomy. It’s fact-based. Although it may be gloomy to others.

Comparing what happens at ND to what happens at Alabama HAS LIMITS. The two schools don’t approach football with anything approaching the same level of COMMITMENT.

Notre Dame’s problems can never be Alabama’s TO THE SAME EXTENT.

How do we know this?

Saban did better after Alabama FIXED THINGS with HIM following the 10 uneven years there than Kelly was able to do after ND landed HIM following the 13 mediocre years post-Holtz.

Alabama went pedal to the metal. ND didn’t – BECAUSE IT CAN’T.

There’s a STRUCTURAL DIFFERENTIAL between the two schools in that ND requires its athletes to be STUDENTS. On a pure numbers basis, a FILTER like that translates to NARROWER RECRUITING BANDWIDTH – as in FEWER OPPORTUNITIES.

As for the argument many make that Saban is God-Almighty as a coach and Kelly some sort of GOOD-COACH-IMPOSTER, I’ve always maintained that Alabama has made Saban as much as he’s made Alabama, while ND was more detrimental to what Kelly could do than Kelly was to ND.

Had Kelly been at Alabama the last 15 years, there’s no doubt he would have been successful and, more likely, more so than he was at ND. Whereas Saban at ND would NOT have won all of those titles. When Saban has the horses, HE’S DAMN HARD TO BEAT. But he hasn’t always had them, and HE WOULDN’T HAVE at ND.

ND IS BY DEFINITION NOT FULLY COMMITTED. AND THAT’S A FACT THAT ONLY ND CAN CHANGE – OR NOT.

But, again, I don’t see it happening. As long as ND STAYS GOOD ENOUGH to maintain its BRAND IMAGE, while continuing to MAKE MONEY, it’s the PERFECT OUTCOME for those in charge, none of whom apparently PRIORITIZE football.

WHICH IS IN NO WAY THE CASE AT ALABAMA.

Read the room, you’re gloomy. It’s ok, many people are. I got to ND in 1986 and there were many articles written how ND could no longer compete. You could have written them. Then Holtz read us Chicago Tribune article laying out the case why we couldn’t compete with top programs (sound familiar?). Scholarship limits, no red shirts, academic standards, etc. He then told us that the article was not written recently. It was written just before Ara was hired. You are a nay sayer, even if you prefer the term realist. Our day will come again.

 

[sjb75]

Read the room, you’re gloomy. It’s ok, many people are. I got to ND in 1986 and there were many articles written how ND could no longer compete. You could have written them. Then Holtz read us Chicago Tribune article laying out the case why we couldn’t compete with top programs (sound familiar?). Scholarship limits, no red shirts, academic standards, etc. He then told us that the article was not written recently. It was written just before Ara was hired. You are a nay sayer, even if you prefer the term realist. Our day will come again.

The fact the you take the time to read what 4-4-3 writes is commendable.

I stopped long ago.

 

[NDDadx3]

The fact the you take the time to read what 4-4-3 writes is commendable.

I stopped long ago.

I read the first 3 sentences … it’s like watching CSPAN

 

[Harpo Marxist]

One of the things I prefer not to see is the media's ND is butt hurt reaction to a recruit who chooses other than ND. Is Michigan all butthurt that Scott chose OSU? Is Miami? Turns out that Scott was never coming to ND.....and even some of the ND sites make it appear as though ND was left standing at the alter with a broken heart. ND should have had five Justin Scott's in the cross hairs....not one. The elite programs don't find themselves in the feast or famine scenario....because they pack their board and play multiple choice instead of true or false.

 

[Golson5]

One of the things I prefer not to see is the media's ND is butt hurt reaction to a recruit who chooses other than ND. Is Michigan all butthurt that Scott chose OSU? Is Miami? Turns out that Scott was never coming to ND.....and even some of the ND sites make it appear as though ND was left standing at the alter with a broken heart. ND should have had five Justin Scott's in the cross hairs....not one. The elite programs don't find themselves in the feast or famine scenario....because they pack their board and play multiple choice instead of true or false.

There aren't 5 Justin Scotts out there

 

[Harpo Marxist]

There aren't 5 Justin Scotts out there

Thats true....but its because they are already committed elsewhere to programs who had multiple options that ND did not give itself.

 

[sjb75]

One of the things I prefer not to see is the media's ND is butt hurt reaction to a recruit who chooses other than ND. Is Michigan all butthurt that Scott chose OSU? Is Miami? Turns out that Scott was never coming to ND.....and even some of the ND sites make it appear as though ND was left standing at the alter with a broken heart. ND should have had five Justin Scott's in the cross hairs....not one. The elite programs don't find themselves in the feast or famine scenario....because they pack their board and play multiple choice instead of true or false.

Thats true....but its because they are already committed elsewhere to programs who had multiple options that ND did not give itself.

Garbage. A bullshit narrative.

 

[Golson5]

Thats true....but its because they are already committed elsewhere to programs who had multiple options that ND did not give itself.

Like who. You mentioned Michigan and Miami. They don't have a player like him

 

[Harpo Marxist]

Like who. You mentioned Michigan and Miami. They don't have a player like him

neither does Notre Dame......maybe thats why they were recruiting him.....whats your point?