We are so close yet so far..

[88ND]

So close yet so far away from being at this level.

Our offense is right there but our defense is where the separation really is.

Watching Clemson and Alabama on defense really shows sadly how far away we are.

They played tenacious angry football. They tackled well.

Neither of which we do. This year we had two players that could have made the starting 22 tonight of both defenses.
Sheldon Day and Jaylon.

We need a hell of a lot more of the Day and Jaylon players to compete with the elite of college football.

 

[NDAyers]

ND is light years away from the level of play on the field tonight. ND doesn't have the size or speed. Hopefully one of the QB's steps up and that can make ND more competitive.

 

[dohster]

Defense Defense Defense....we have been missing that for years....

 

[deadmanramsey]

Let's not get carried away. Maybe my memory is fuzzy but didn't we lose to Clemson by missing a mere 2 point conversion?

That being said, I agree about the defense. I honestly don't see the personnel shaping up better than this past year, so what's the plan gonna be? I sure hope it will be to keep it simple stupid!

 

[Izo]

We have to get a few more 4-5 star players and a lot more speed on defense .

 

[sshulk]

That was not a defensive clinic - complete coverage breakdowns and missed tackles leading to TDs and big plays. Watson alone kept Clemson in it - a Vince young type performance

 

[perseverare]

Let's not get carried away. Maybe my memory is fuzzy but didn't we lose to Clemson by missing a mere 2 point conversion?

That being said, I agree about the defense. I honestly don't see the personnel shaping up better than this past year, so what's the plan gonna be? I sure hope it will be to keep it simple stupid!

Clemson was far better at seasons end.
As for ND vs Clemson game; like Affirmed/Alydar, ND was not going to get a nose in front no matter where they played or what the conditions. '15 Clemson was just better.

And, it looks like other teams, such a Clemson, are starting to 'nutricate' their athletes in the same manner as Bama. They are closing the 'muscle gap'. ND needs to 'find a way'.

AND a few years ago Kelly said Bama was the blueprint, the question is does ND now look more like ND of 4 yrs ago or Bama of '15 in terms of personel and play style.

 

[mwjourney]

That was not a defensive clinic - complete coverage breakdowns and missed tackles leading to TDs and big plays. Watson alone kept Clemson in it - a Vince young type performance

I agree.........45-40 is not a defensive clinic and there were many missed arm tackles and wide open receivers. We would be howling for the firing of BVG with this score. It made for an enjoyable game to watch but I saw both defenses exposed numerous times. Watson did play the game of his life though and kept many plays alive that turned into good things for Clemson.

 

[BGI User 348]

Agree.......but based on bowl games ND is right there with ALL but these two & osu. DL, ILB & secondary were lacking this year------DK was young but talented at QB.

GET BETTER!!!

 

[perseverare]

"Notre Dame finished No. 11 in the AP poll after losing its final two games.

The Irish (10-3) fell at Stanford (No. 3) in the final week of the regular season before losing to Ohio State (No. 4) in the Fiesta Bowl. Notre Dame's first loss came against second-ranked Clemson.

The Irish finished with one win over a team in the final Top 25 (Navy, No. 18). Alabama was the unanimous No. 1 selection. Oklahoma, Michigan State, TCU, Houston, Iowa and Ole Miss filled spots 5-10."

 

[88ND]

It was a difference in talent between when ND battled Clemson and the defensive personal ND was force to use against Ohio State. They will get better starting this week.

That was a different Watson that played against the Irish . Either the conditions or condition of him when we played Clemson but last night's Watson would have shredded our healthy defense.

 

[mwjourney]

That was a different Watson that played against the Irish . Either the conditions or condition of him when we played Clemson but last night's Watson would have shredded our healthy defense.

........and maybe we wouldn't have turned the ball over as much as we did........You can't go back and redo a game that's done. Both teams were affected by the conditions at Clemson and had to overcome them.

 

[ch_seahawkfan]

hope it changes,, but ND,,, also ran - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...m=newsletter&utm_campaign=notre-dame-football

 

[Telx1]

We had very narrow loses to Clemson and Stanford, and we can argue that we should have won each, but I don't buy into the would have could have should have look at revisionist history. We lost on the field and they count as such. By the same token, I don't see any basis for suggesting a whipping if we played again, all things being equal health-wise. Yes Watson looked much improved, but Kizer improved a great deal since the Clemson game as well. Alabama has an average passing game, and they shredded Clemson in the second half, and won with special team play, and our passing game is elite by comparison.

 

[perseverare]

Ole Mi$$ is in it for Gary

 

[88ND]

We had very narrow loses to Clemson and Stanford, and we can argue that we should have won each, but I don't buy into the would have could have should have look at revisionist history. We lost on the field and they count as such. By the same token, I don't see any basis for suggesting a whipping if we played again, all things being equal health-wise. Yes Watson looked much improved, but Kizer improved a great deal since the Clemson game as well. Alabama has an average passing game, and they shredded Clemson in the second half, and won with special team play, and our passing game is elite by comparison.

I don't either and just like boxing...styles make fights. Having said that we are a flat team. Rather unemotional in the biggest of games. This is not a help. In no way playing the game this way is productive.

We need more attitude on defense and better material.
Our offense is not a problem whatsoever.

 

[twalsh]

Watching Clemson and Alabama on defense really shows sadly how far away we are.

Yet they both gave up 40 points, or more, and one had more blown coverages in one game than some teams have all season.

 

[Telx1]

88ND.. I tend to agree. Don't understand how we never saw any fire from the defense except in the second half of a few games where they gathered momentum and made critical stops. Maybe USC was the exception. Wanted the defense to play like an underdog with an attitude.

 

[88ND]

88ND.. I tend to agree. Don't understand how we never saw any fire from the defense except in the second half of a few games where they gathered momentum and made critical stops. Maybe USC was the exception. Wanted the defense to play like an underdog with an attitude.

First play of the game Bama completed a little flat pass or swing route....the Clemson defender tackled him for no gain and gave him an earful looking down on him. As if to say you aren't so bad to me.

I'm not promoting running Jimmy Johnson wild ...but church is on Sundays. You would think church is in session on Saturdays when it's Notre Dame kick off time.

You CAN play with attitude and still show class.

 

[Irishjohn68]

First play of the game Bama completed a little flat pass or swing route....the Clemson defender tackled him for no gain and gave him an earful looking down on him. As if to say you aren't so bad to me.

I'm not promoting running Jimmy Johnson wild ...but church is on Sundays. You would think church is in session on Saturdays when it's Notre Dame kick off time.

You CAN play with attitude and still show class.

Well said 88ND.

 

[mwjourney]

First play of the game Bama completed a little flat pass or swing route....the Clemson defender tackled him for no gain and gave him an earful looking down on him. As if to say you aren't so bad to me.

I'm not promoting running Jimmy Johnson wild ...but church is on Sundays. You would think church is in session on Saturdays when it's Notre Dame kick off time.

You CAN play with attitude and still show class.

But what did it matter to the game? Nothing.......Every tackle, sack and broken up pass is a whoop de doo look at me celebration in college and pro football.......ND players would also do that hyped up celebrations after sacks and good tackles and it bought us nothing. You can have all the attitude you want if you can execute the plays. Attitude and determination were not our problem this year. Our defense fought hard every game. Our problem was execution - being out of position, taking poor angles and not wrapping up for the tackle. We were just not fundamentally sound.

 

[IrishBlessings]

But what did it matter to the game? Nothing.......Every tackle, sack and broken up pass is a whoop de doo look at me celebration in college and pro football.......ND players would also do that hyped up celebrations after sacks and good tackles and it bought us nothing. You can have all the attitude you want if you can execute the plays. Attitude and determination were not our problem this year. Our defense fought hard every game. Our problem was execution - being out of position, taking poor angles and not wrapping up for the tackle. We were just not fundamentally sound.

To play great D - you also have to have attitude - we did not play D - "With a chip on our shoulder". We were much too nice. Alan Pinkett and Zibby quite frankly are correct. Until we get some recruits who know how play w/ a chip on their shoulders we will struggle vs. the great teams - the great teams play w/ a chip on the shoulders in big games.

 

[perseverare]

it comes down to recruiting and talent.
ND is there offensively.

But the defensive story is quite different. ND is 11th in the final AP poll and probably will be that give or take a spot in the final coaches poll. In final rankings, ND beat 1 Top 20 team; a rvice academy.

Teams recruiting elite players on both sides of the ball make it to the Top 8 teams and those teams are generally predictable based on recruiting at the Top 6-8 level.

At start of the season, I asked posters if they could pick the 4 playoff teams from 8 choice just from past recruiting classes.

Bama was there. Clemson was not in my top 6 but was my outsider choice in top 8.
MSU and Ok. were somewhat surprises and could be explained by the advantage of weak conferences.
tOSU was close and probably should have been a playoff team in committee hindsight.
FSU and USC had meltdown years: on and off the field.

So, looking at how this has meaning, it means ND needs to be more successful in recruiting, especially defensively. Offensively ND is right at the top of the food chain. ND needs defensive 'bigs'.

 

[88ND]

But what did it matter to the game? Nothing.......Every tackle, sack and broken up pass is a whoop de doo look at me celebration in college and pro football.......ND players would also do that hyped up celebrations after sacks and good tackles and it bought us nothing. You can have all the attitude you want if you can execute the plays. Attitude and determination were not our problem this year. Our defense fought hard every game. Our problem was execution - being out of position, taking poor angles and not wrapping up for the tackle. We were just not fundamentally sound.

I've said as much since week 1. We are a terrible tackling team. Defensive fundamentals are piss poor. That alone IMO should be the termination of BVG because that is a massive part of his product on display.

Also there is a difference in the me me me ..look at me showing off you describe and just playing angry with emotion and a chip on your shoulder.
Moreover....playing with that heightened passion may not win you the game ...correct on that....but in no way whatsoever does it hurt. Did that help Clemson win? No. But it made a statement that we belong in this game with you the almighty Alabama. !

While that emotion alone won't give us a victory it can also help keep us from spotting these other teams 2 touchdown leads in the first 8 minutes.

 

[IrishBlessings]

Pers

it comes down to recruiting and talent.
ND is there offensively.

But the defensive story is quite different. ND is 11th in the final AP poll and probably will be that give or take a spot in the final coaches poll. In final rankings, ND beat 1 Top 20 team; a rvice academy.

Teams recruiting elite players on both sides of the ball make it to the Top 8 teams and those teams are generally predictable based on recruiting at the Top 6-8 level.

At start of the season, I asked posters if they could pick the 4 playoff teams from 8 choice just from past recruiting classes.

Bama was there. Clemson was not in my top 6 but was my outsider choice in top 8.
MSU and Ok. were somewhat surprises and could be explained by the advantage of weak conferences.
tOSU was close and probably should have been a playoff team in committee hindsight.
FSU and USC had meltdown years: on and off the field.

So, looking at how this has meaning, it means ND needs to be more successful in recruiting, especially defensively. Offensively ND is right at the top of the food chain. ND needs defensive 'bigs'.

Perse, agree w/ this and we not that far away - just need a couple of D line bad asses and if we can just do that - that will automatically improve our secondary.

 

[roeck83]

88ND, I agree with what you say. There are for sure many variables that go into making a championship team, but one thing a championship team has to have is 'belief'. Myself,I thought the Clemson-Bama CG was a classic. I didn't think Clemson would beat Oklahoma. But they played heroically. Yeah, Bama beat them on a number of plays, and they made mistakes, but champions make mistakes too. No matter what Bama threw at them, they came back with fire, with belief. I keep thinking of that Clemson wide receiver, the second year walk on, who was being covered by a Bama five star db. The one who scored two touchdowns in the first half. Recruiting obviously matters, talent matters. But belief changes the equation. Against Ohio State, I just didn't get the feeling that we had 'belief'. Bama won that game, IMO, because of the onside kick. The game was knotted, and Saban had lost confidence that his defense would prevail. It was a gutsy call on Saban's end, a brilliant call. Both of these teams had belief, and honestly, with a break here or there, Clemson could have pulled off the upset. With our defense, I suspect it is certainly much more than just talent issues. Our defense gets the 'deer in the headlights' look when things go bad. They play not to lose, and that is the attitude that will never rise to the occasion. Nobody wins championships without rising to the occasion.

I think one other point. Greatness can't be assured even with the best talent going. We have, a lot of talent.
It's about will. I'm sure this is one of the reasons why we all love to watch college football. Greatness is always a little bit miraculous. I really think this is the only issue on which I feel ambivalent about Coach Kelly. I mean, it is no crime to be thinking about coaching pro football. But the week of the Fiesta bowl is not the time to reveal to the media what you would want to make that change. To even be thinking about that, let alone to publicize that, is going to affect your players a little bit. Intangible things count too. Talent matters, breaks matter, et al. What I am saying is that a team can play winning football, and still lose. That's life. I get upset when we don't play winning football, it's not losing a big one that is the final issue. Clemson played like champions in the game against Bama. They rose to the occasion. Not quite high enough, but pretty damn high.