Agree w you, but frankly, neither are even close to realistic possibilities.
This is why Kelly will not be retained after this season.
- Thread starter Zorich 88
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This is about more than Brian Kelly....thats why. Its fair to say that he is somewhat a victim of circumstances where timing is concerned. But the buck stops with Brian Kelly. Just because Notre Dame knew about it two years ago and self reported does not mean Kelly cannot and should not be held accountable today. He is a highly visible representative of Notre Dame and the Head Coach. And he has enjoyed considerable support from the university under difficult circumstances....(see Declan Sullivan).
Public relations matters even at Notre Dame. The big difference is that the general public did not know about it two years ago...boosters and alumni did not know about it two years ago...now they do. This represents a continuation of failure under Brian Kelly's watch. Brian Kelly got credit when Notre Dame was ranked #1 academically when also #1 on the field....and the opposite is also true.
My Dad is 84 and he thought these were new charges. He then remembered the 4 who were suspended after the Self reporting by ND.
Coach Kelly is going nowhere in '17 so you need to find another team to root for.
If Brian Kelly's status were to change as a result of the cheating, it would have happened when it was discovered, not now. Boosters and alumni did know about it two years ago. It was widely reported. Did you not hear about it?
You are using anything you have to argue that Kelly should be let go. You don't like him? That's fine. But the NCAA penalties don't change things.
You are using anything you have to argue that Kelly should be let go. You don't like him? That's fine. But the NCAA penalties don't change things.
Your concern for my needs is touching.....but tend to your own needs. You are likely now in the minority of fans who think Brian Kelly should be coaching at Notre Dame in 2017. He's fighting over the top hot seat as we speak. Whether I like him or not doesn't change that.
He is returning. You can't seem to wrap your head around that. The academic scandal happened long ago but you are slow at the switch. I think the program will be able to move ahead without your support.
Whatever was done wrong in this incident was fully known two years ago. ND didn't learn anything new from the NCAA investigation or its final decision. If they thought Kelly had done something objectionable, they would have dealt with it then. I'm not sure why your struggling with this concept.
I'm not disagreeing with your logic, but the team has gone in the shitter since then, hasn't it? "Objectionable" is a subjective term, after all. It's more objectionable to suck at both football and academics......
I disagree with the premise it does'nt fall at Kelly's feet. He may not have had knowledge? I'm sure he most likely had no knowledge! Yet to say he had nothing "zero" to do with it is not the proper response from the leader of the football program! Any way you cut it. He could have said we put a program in place to stem future problems. Anything but that. I'm hopeful thats another nail.
And suddenly, you are Mr Integrity. That's rich. I know exactly what you stand for and that is to use anything to get BK fired.
the problem with BK is he talks accountability and yet he has no responsibility!
they usually are paired off!
they usually are paired off!
Brian Kelly doesn't need my help getting fired. That process is taking care of itself. The only question for Notre Dame at this point is when should the future actually begin? Change is that prerequisite.
you focus entirely on the internals at Notre Dame....there is a reputation at stake as well. In 2012, Notre Dame was ranked #1 both academically and athletically visavis football....That was a crown jewel for any institution, including Notre Dame. That is gone on both counts.....really gone. The public knowledge of this investigation did not exist two years ago. Now it does. That is the elephant in the room.
One of the major strengths of Notre Dame recruiting remains "that 40 year decision". That just took a hit.
Not sure how the acts of a few caused the 40 year decision to take a hit, but I guess some people look at the worst side of anything.
The problem that catches my attention is the culture within the program. How, why and who is thinking that these kind of actions are at all tolerated and won't, at some point, be discovered? I don't blame just one person, but an atmosphere has been created that accepts and understands these actions and it obviously metastasized into something like this happening. This is a bigger issue than one or two people.
Ridiculous. Wherever you go, there are people who will do dishonest things. Stop acting like ND has some sort of atmosphere where things like this are encouraged.
what makes you say that on both accounts ?... why is it a good thing. Not mocking you be explain
We've absorbed hits worse than this with our reputation intact, we'll survive this without a problem. Anyone who matters looks at this situation and sees it as reinforcing ND's commitment to academic integrity.
A few guys cheated and got caught. There have ben a few guys cheating every season since 1900, there a few guys cheating right now. Every campus, every school, every league. From Harvard to Mississippi State. Every so often somebody gets caught, and if you get caught at the wrong (right?) place, you pay the price. ND is the wrong place to get caught. That's the culture or the atmosphere or whatever else you want to call it.
Don't agree with this at all. This ends with the right leadership running organizations, instead people thought this was behavior that wouldn't be caught and/or is acceptable within the environment of the team or athletic department. It's that environment which has been created that should be troublesome.
The comment was meant for people who can think, not someone who blabs. The nurse is at the door with your morning bedpan.
Sorry, I can't help that you continue to post nonsense. If there were a hall of fame for hair pull, you would be in it.
It's much more simple than that. People just don't think they will get caught. It has nothing to do with some underlying attitude or environment of acceptability. Nothing in ND's past would give anyone the idea that academic dishonesty will be treated lightly.
Wrong. Many, like you, did not know the extent of the scandal. It's a massive cluster**** right now.
I disagree with this statement.
"instead people thought this was behavior that wouldn't be caught and/or is acceptable within the environment of the team or athletic department."
However, there is a major cultural problem within the football department. If people want to find fault with the players fine, but the HC bears the ultimate responsibility for the team.
We are an unbelievable mess right now and floundering. Should be an interesting 24-72 hours....
No. You and I disagree on this. People cheat. People take short cuts. Granted, that is expected and more importantly you can manage people, but an environment, a culture grows over time and permeates to many levels. This wasn't one or two people, and we do not know the length of time that this occurred. My suspicion is that the first part and most of the second part of the conversation between the school President, BOD, AD and coaching staff would be focused on why? How long? What is the depth of the problem? Not the individuals per say. You can correct and teach people, but a culture that is accepting of this short cut is very worrisome. Trust me, no one cried when Ali BaBa announced to the 40 thieves that someone was caught. That's expected. What wasn't was when someone flipped on the others.
This is just one element (of many) of the very real culture problem that exists with this team.
Not aware of other issues, but it doesn't surprise me. Can only comment on what is currently public knowledge. But, my suspicion is by next Tuesday more light on the football program direction will come into focus. And it will be Kelly who initiated the process.
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Are you really this dense? If there were a "culture that is accepting of this short cut is very worrisome" ND would have looked the other way and swept this under the rug. You are making this up. It is a straw man argument.
supporting the program and believing the coach has outlived his usefulness are mutually exclusive issues. Wrap your head around that fact.
