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The simple defense

88ND

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Sep 9, 2013
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The fundamentals could use serious work. Let me say this...no team is going to pitch shutouts every week in CFB today. Playing against 60 mins of hurry up offense will concede some points, which in 2015 most teams are playing hurry up.
It's more of a who can allow the least amount of points or what team can keep the big plays to a minimum.

I think our defense could be better at times just by simplifying at times.

Say what you want about BVG, good or bad.....but there can't be anything positive said about our defensive fundamentals. Watching video of camp I said to everyone the fundamentals are atrocious by certain individuals on defense. Some looking for the highlight hit on every single play most times leaves them grasping at air.

If weather was ideal what does Clemson do on offense? What do they do if not trying to kill the clock for most of second half. We don't know how our defense as a whole looked in that situation. I can tell you early on it was pretty easy sledding against our defense when Clemson was really putting forth effort to win rather than not to lose.

Again, say what you want about BVG but there can be zero disputing our fundamentals. Out of control reckless attempts is often the case by a lot of the defense. Even the best athlete looks silly if he can't do the simple things like close the distance, break down, then wrap up with BOTH arms. We have too many on defense not doing the simple things like this and trying to get on sportscenter top ten with a hit.

I also said our defense best friend this year was our offense. That has been true in every game but the Clemson game where the offense with all the turnovers and drops became our defense enemy.

Is our defense great? NO! Can it be better? YES! Just by doing the little things proper that would have been taught to all these guys from day 1 in pop Warner on. This has to get better.

Some are saying this isn't a contender or the over used comparison ..this isn't bama. That's right....it isn't Bama. The glaring difference between them and us is bama has a lot more one on one tackles in the open field. We get there in position to make the tackle but can't finish.
 
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And, since all the kids coming out of H.S. are not all that different in terms of 'gargantuatuity' it is apparent that Bama has found some magical training technique to turn otherwise normal athletes into behemoths!
Watching Bama play there is a noticeable physical difference compared to the ND roster.
We saw that in the NC game; ND had a 300+ DL and they looked like dwarfs.
(not that there is anything wrong with dwarfs)
 
agree w/ some of your assessment - #22 did not wrap at the 5 yard line - the Clemson player should of been tackled at the 5. instead he bounces off 22 and walks in for the score. Not all ND defenders are like that obviously - but I thought the tackling by more than a couple was not good. Maybe the tackling is not sound because teams don't hit/tackle as much as they used too. And maybe w/ all the ND injuries the staff has reeled in the amount of tackling and hitting in practice. It is a fine balance the staff needs to figure out in terms of how they practice - the Defenders all need to be sound tacklers - this coming in for a big hit and not wrapping up and trying to knock the ball carrier over w/ your shoulder pad is a piss poor way to tackle and play D. That has to stop immediately.
 
I agree. I'm tired of seeing crap tackling and ND had quite a few blown assignments against Massachusetts and I think I saw a couple vs. Clemson.

This defense needs to be simplified and ND needs to get back to focusing on fundamentals.
 
the Defenders all need to be sound tacklers - this coming in for a big hit and not wrapping up and trying to knock the ball carrier over w/ your shoulder pad is a piss poor way to tackle and play D. That has to stop immediately.
Yes. Unfortunately that is lazy play. A proper form tackle in the open field is closing the gap, breaking down ( this negates getting faked out), then bending your knees ....that's right ...the oh so strenuous bending of the knees for god sake, then wrap up with both arms ideally behind the knees. All this happens very quickly but it requires effort and energy. We have several players that only want to lean in and hit with a shoulder...which is about the most lazy attempt one could make. Too much of this going on.
 
Weren't you the guy who criticized Bob Diaco for being "Vanilla" and "Bend but do not Break". Bob Diaco's defense was built around simplicity, never being out of position and clean tackling, But you did not like that either. If fact it was you and 35 who were absolutely aglow when BVG was hired at ND, You and 35 were musing about how ND was going to start attacking, playing on the opponents side of the ball, blitzing, disguising and thoroughly confusing the offense, You guys even mentioned Jaylon Smith being used like Lawrence Taylor. Never once did I hear you take into consideration that that type of defense can confuse the offense AND the defense. Taking chances on defense can come with great reward, BUT also comes with great risk,

It seems to me the only thing you want is ND to pitch damn near a shut out every week, And if that does not happen you will come on here and run down the coaching staff, Very inspiring.
 
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http://www.seahawks.com/video/2014/07/28/2014-seahawks-tackling

Shoulder tackling is the ONLY way tackling is now taught from Pop Warner to the NFL,. Due to head injuries and the effects of concussions, the head tackle is HISTORY, The Seahawks have no problem getting a ball carrier to the ground, and they use the shoulder.

So has every rugby team from day 1.

"Due to head injuries and the effects of concussions, the head tackle is HISTORY..."

Guys still do it...sometimes it's penalized.... helmet to helmet, spearing....

Did you catch the clemson kicker leading with his helmet on the ball to open the second half...... (below)?

"This is incredible! What a technique! He put his helmet right on the football. That is unbelievable play by the kicker...." Herbstreit.

It is being referred to by the ACC network as a "textbook hit"....

Hmmm, I guess you didn't watch the game. It must have been a "bye" watching week for you.

I think it's an extremely dangerous thing to do and don't agree with its deployment....

"the head tackle is HISTORY" hahaha

Thanks for the continued chuckles. Please make sure you don't mix colors with whites.... .....

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
And, since all the kids coming out of H.S. are not all that different in terms of 'gargantuatuity' it is apparent that Bama has found some magical training technique to turn otherwise normal athletes into behemoths!
Watching Bama play there is a noticeable physical difference compared to the ND roster.
We saw that in the NC game; ND had a 300+ DL and they looked like dwarfs.
(not that there is anything wrong with dwarfs)

Yea, it's called not going to class and spending all your time either practicing or in the weigh room. Let's call a spade a spade, teams like 'Bama, OSU etc.. are semi-pro teams
 
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http://www.seahawks.com/video/2014/07/28/2014-seahawks-tackling

Shoulder tackling is the ONLY way tackling is now taught from Pop Warner to the NFL,. Due to head injuries and the effects of concussions, the head tackle is HISTORY, The Seahawks have no problem getting a ball carrier to the ground, and they use the shoulder.

FI. Anyone who coaches football or even watches football knows you lead w/ the shoulder and not the head - spearing or leading w/ the helmet was ruled illegal awhile ago. What was being addressed was the fact that some ND players lead w/ their shoulder - "but don't WRAP UP" - The Pete Carroll Seahawks philosophy of tacking is rooted in rugby fundamentals, which takes the head out of the tackle and focus's on making the hit the hit w/ shoulder w/ the WRAP.
 
The fundamentals could use serious work. Let me say this...no team is going to pitch shutouts every week in CFB today. Playing against 60 mins of hurry up offense will concede some points, which in 2015 most teams are playing hurry up.
It's more of a who can allow the least amount of points or what team can keep the big plays to a minimum.

I think our defense could be better at times just by simplifying at times.

Say what you want about BVG, good or bad.....but there can't be anything positive said about our defensive fundamentals. Watching video of camp I said to everyone the fundamentals are atrocious by certain individuals on defense. Some looking for the highlight hit on every single play most times leaves them grasping at air.

If weather was ideal what does Clemson do on offense? What do they do if not trying to kill the clock for most of second half. We don't know how our defense as a whole looked in that situation. I can tell you early on it was pretty easy sledding against our defense when Clemson was really putting forth effort to win rather than not to lose.

Again, say what you want about BVG but there can be zero disputing our fundamentals. Out of control reckless attempts is often the case by a lot of the defense. Even the best athlete looks silly if he can't do the simple things like close the distance, break down, then wrap up with BOTH arms. We have too many on defense not doing the simple things like this and trying to get on sportscenter top ten with a hit.

I also said our defense best friend this year was our offense. That has been true in every game but the Clemson game where the offense with all the turnovers and drops became our defense enemy.

Is our defense great? NO! Can it be better? YES! Just by doing the little things proper that would have been taught to all these guys from day 1 in pop Warner on. This has to get better.

Some are saying this isn't a contender or the over used comparison ..this isn't bama. That's right....it isn't Bama. The glaring difference between them and us is bama has a lot more one on one tackles in the open field. We get there in position to make the tackle but can't finish.
I still believe the element of surprise was Watson running the ball. Up until that point he hadn't shown much running ability and I don't believe BVG schemed for it. Once they started to be successful you could see Jayon spy him.
 
I believe leading with your helmet only applies to hitting the ball carrier helmet to helmet. Not helmet to body. A kicker that tackles like that doesn't know what he's doing other than to get in the way of a runner. Expect no turnovers if the defense doesn't start tackling better. Apparently, BK has had the lads working on tackling and stripping the ball. 91st in turnovers is not going to cut it for a potential play off candidate.
 
Not to belabor this point but, the Irish defense was not the problem on Saturday. Sure, they came out flat but tightened that up in a hurry. CU was a tough opponent at their house in a torrential downpour. It was special teams and the offense along with BK not moving away from what the CU defense sold-out to take away. ND had the worst T/O margin to date, dropped multiple passes (some would be scoring passes), and still only lost by 2 points.
 
I was taught head up, nose on the football, wrap the arms ... and keep your eyes on the waist, not the lower or upper body. If we did it wrong, we ran a lap.
 
Not to belabor this point but, the Irish defense was not the problem on Saturday. Sure, they came out flat but tightened that up in a hurry. CU was a tough opponent at their house in a torrential downpour. It was special teams and the offense along with BK not moving away from what the CU defense sold-out to take away. ND had the worst T/O margin to date, dropped multiple passes (some would be scoring passes), and still only lost by 2 points.

It was a massive opportunity squandered. We played below average as a team.

That had some to do with Clemson's effort, but imo a lot more to do with everyone from the top down.

goddam that game sucked and we still almost pulled it out.

I wish it was an 8 team playoff..... We've got to be perfect now.

We better pulverize Navy.
 
cgvr, somehow the Irish were not ready to come in and play that game. Hype? Overconfidence? Weather? Who knows. CU came out with a mentality to crush ND. That worked for them for about 7 minutes. Outside of those first 7 minutes, the Irish, in effect, beat themselves.
 
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cgvr, somehow the Irish were not ready to come in and play that game. Hype? Overconfidence? Weather? Who knows. CU came out with a mentality to crush ND. That worked for them for about 7 minutes. Outside of those first 7 minutes, the Irish, in effect, beat themselves.

I think we may have been too "amped" up coming out. The opening play put us on our heels. I haven't re-watched it, but when I saw it I thought we over pursued and lost containment. Sometimes being too aggressive is a killer.... (paging Max Redfield) I don't know how focused we were on Watson's run potential especially coming off knee surgery. That kid has wheels.... That first play seemed to "shock" us....

I completely agree with your assessment. They were ripe for a beat down and had no answer for our speed underneath.

At least Yoon hit his FG.....
 
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I still believe the element of surprise was Watson running the ball. Up until that point he hadn't shown much running ability and I don't believe BVG schemed for it. Once they started to be successful you could see Jayon spy him.

Exactly. Based on the Clemson games earlier this season Watson was not running. In fact, he had rushed for only 93 yards in the previous games (3) of this season compared to 641 yards passing. No evidence Clemson was running him after his injury last season.
 
This type of thread is exactly why I will not post during a game or even afterward. None of my rants will change the outcome of the game. I take an Irish loss with a seethe that lasts for days...weeks. It is what it is and I cannot change it. Playing Sunday morning QB is easy - it's easy to pick apart what I do not like. But, I am not smarter than BK or anyone on his staff when it comes to football - I accept that reality. Like it or not, I have to accept how BK runs the game.

On a side note, it's good to be talking about losing to a top team rather than the Tulsa, South Florida, or Navy teams of years past.
 
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Wow tough crowd. I thought the defense has played pretty good as a whole

Its not about the defense simply being good. They can be better. I counted numerous blown coverages in the first three drives against Massachusetts. These are completely unforced errors that have nothing to do with talent and they shouldn't happen. Against good teams, this could be the difference. Who knows, maybe it even was against Clemson (yes, I'm aware of the four turnovers -- the goal is to the best you can be).

Why settle for solid to good if they can be very good?
 
Look, CU has outperformed ND for 10+ years. Now, all of a sudden, Irish fans are bitchin' ND lost to them at their place in a torrential downpour. The loss sucked! I thought the Irish would win BUT they did not win. ND lost to a solid CU team that may not have as much talent as ND but they know how to win games that ND hasn't figured out yet. Regardless how close ND was to winning, they have not proved they can win a big-time game on the road.

They're getting close (FSU, CU), but, ND still walks away licking their wounds. The game is over and I refuse to be a Sunday morning QB that has better ideas than BK and staff on what they should've done. Get better - win those games!
 
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Yes. Unfortunately that is lazy play. A proper form tackle in the open field is closing the gap, breaking down ( this negates getting faked out), then bending your knees ....that's right ...the oh so strenuous bending of the knees for god sake, then wrap up with both arms ideally behind the knees. All this happens very quickly but it requires effort and energy. We have several players that only want to lean in and hit with a shoulder...which is about the most lazy attempt one could make. Too much of this going on.
resume ? you sound like you read a book from the library.
 
It was a massive opportunity squandered. We played below average as a team.

That had some to do with Clemson's effort, but imo a lot more to do with everyone from the top down.

goddam that game sucked and we still almost pulled it out.

I wish it was an 8 team playoff..... We've got to be perfect now.

We better pulverize Navy.
agreed but better to have lost to Clemson than Stanford.
 
I think we may have been too "amped" up coming out. The opening play put us on our heels. I haven't re-watched it, but when I saw it I thought we over pursued and lost containment. Sometimes being too aggressive is a killer.... (paging Max Redfield) I don't know how focused we were on Watson's run potential especially coming off knee surgery. That kid has wheels.... That first play seemed to "shock" us....

I completely agree with your assessment. They were ripe for a beat down and had no answer for our speed underneath.

At least Yoon hit his FG.....
too many short fields for Clemson. I thought the defense as a whole was pretty damn good. they kept nd in the game despite the turnovers.
 
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Its not about the defense simply being good. They can be better. I counted numerous blown coverages in the first three drives against Massachusetts. These are completely unforced errors that have nothing to do with talent and they shouldn't happen. Against good teams, this could be the difference. Who knows, maybe it even was against Clemson (yes, I'm aware of the four turnovers -- the goal is to the best you can be).

Why settle for solid to good if they can be very good?
no credit to Clemson for anything ? has nd ever gotten beat or do they only lose ?
 
too many short fields for Clemson. I thought the defense as a whole was pretty damn good. they kept nd in the game despite the turnovers.

They certainly did enough for us to win.... Man that game pissed me off.... We'd be smack in the middle of the playoff picture right now.....in control.... we threw it away....
 
no credit to Clemson for anything ? has nd ever gotten beat or do they only lose ?
ND got their arses beat last year at SC. That has to change. ND dropped a game this year (many were picking ND to lose) and the fans picking ND to lose are the most boisterous. That's the thing about this board I will never understand. I had ND going all the way undefeated but I accept this loss. Those that predicted this loss are out in full force crying that ND lost a game they predicted them to lose - why no celebration and say "I told you so".

This is surely a fickle fanbase. You predict a loss then jump all over the coaching staff for losing. Maybe some people just want to complain no matter what - hedge their bets and be the "I told you so crowd". I don't know.
 
To say Clemson had their way early on is a huge stretch. They did practically nothing other than the first 5 minutes of the game. The first play went for 40 of their 300 total yds. A shanked punt setup the other short field TD. Ragging on the defense and acting as though Clemson "shut it down" is a bunch of b)ll$h1t. There were plenty of drives after the initial 5 minutes when Clemson wasn't killing clock & ND shut them down. The premise is a crock, imo. Don't turn it over 4 times in the 2nd half & we win going away.
 
no credit to Clemson for anything ? has nd ever gotten beat or do they only lose ?

My post is more geared towards what I saw against UMass as I haven't broken down the Clemson game yet. When a defense is not aligned in a way that allows them to execute, more blame will be given to the defense that didn't line up correctly/blew an assignment than credit will be given to the offense.

It doesn't take any skill to be properly aligned or be in the correct coverage, and it doesn't matter if ND is playing the New England Patriots or Youngstown State. Yards are going to be given away if there are blown assignments.
 
This post strikes me as "how can we lay blame on the defense". Pay no attention to four turnovers and multiple dropped passes - how is the defense at fault - THAT'S ALL I WANT TO KNOW!!! Forget the fact that the Irish could have won the game on offense - how did this defense lose the game?
 
This post strikes me as "how can we lay blame on the defense". Pay no attention to four turnovers and multiple dropped passes - how is the defense at fault - THAT'S ALL I WANT TO KNOW!!! Forget the fact that the Irish could have won the game on offense - how did this defense lose the game?

If ND doesn't turn the ball over four times, they probably win (Clemson was conservative for a good part of the game). This isn't me blaming the defense. The offense gave some points to Clemson by turning the ball over. That's not the D's fault and they did a pretty good job of keeping Clemson from scoring.

The title of the thread is about simplifying the defense and improving tackling. I've seen plenty of evidence that says ND needs to simplify things because they're are simply to many blown assignments.

I would be saying the same thing whether ND gave up 10 or 50 points. This was my takeaway from the UMass game. I don't simply look at the stats and judge the performance by that.

ND had all kinds of pressure against Texas. How has that worked out against other teams that don't completely blow assignments in pass protection? There's more to the game than simply saying "the D was only responsible for 17, no need to discuss room for improvement".
 
You all are just a bunch of puppets. Criticizing the defense for this game is like saying "it's my gas cap's problem that I forgot my keys". You guys predict ND to lose then you all are the biggest crying-pu$$y babies in the world. I suppose ND needs coaches that allow zero points for ten years straight and score 50 each game - surely, some of you will find fault in that as well.
 
If ND doesn't turn the ball over four times, they probably win (Clemson was conservative for a good part of the game). This isn't me blaming the defense. The offense gave some points to Clemson by turning the ball over. That's not the D's fault and they did a pretty good job of keeping Clemson from scoring.

The title of the thread is about simplifying the defense and improving tackling. I've seen plenty of evidence that says ND needs to simplify things because they're are simply to many blown assignments.

I would be saying the same thing whether ND gave up 10 or 50 points. This was my takeaway from the UMass game. I don't simply look at the stats and judge the performance by that.

ND had all kinds of pressure against Texas. How has that worked out against other teams that don't completely blow assignments in pass protection? There's more to the game than simply saying "the D was only responsible for 17, no need to discuss room for improvement".
It took ND a few minutes to readjust their defense after the first quarter onslaught. But, they did and the rest of the game was fine (defensively). ND didn't attack CU in the passing game until the fourth quarter. It was there all game and CU dared ND to do it - they sold out against the run to make DK beat them.
 
You all are just a bunch of puppets. Criticizing the defense for this game is like saying "it's my gas cap's problem that I forgot my keys". You guys predict ND to lose then you all are the biggest crying-pu$$y babies in the world. I suppose ND needs coaches that allow zero points for ten years straight and score 50 each game - surely, some of you will find fault in that as well.

I hope you're not including me in this. I actually know the game's x's and o's pretty well. So I actually understand when there's a blown assignment that results in free yardage. I'm almost always in the coaches corner too. I never complain about playcalling or second guess decisions simply because they don't work and I don't expect perfect execution or for the defense to always hold the offense to ten points.

The thread topic is simplifying the defense. My estimation is that the defense needs to be simplified because the defenders are not properly aligned to execute the assignment or are flat out in the wrong coverage resulting in a receiver being completely uncovered.

I'm not just spouting either. I can name numerous specific examples from the UMass game.
 
It took ND a few minutes to readjust their defense after the first quarter onslaught. But, they did and the rest of the game was fine (defensively). ND didn't attack CU in the passing game until the fourth quarter. It was there all game and CU dared ND to do it - they sold out against the run to make DK beat them.

We'll see. I'm about the break the game down right now.
 
Well, FI44, if you have a coaching background then I would expect you to steer clear from this thread unless you are stepping up and saying it was not ND's defense that lost the game. That said, if you know better than the Irish coaches then you should get your resume together and submit it. Be sure to guarantee never making a mistake planning a game - that will surely get you the job.
 
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