The Defense A Year From Now

[IrishInOntario]

Heading into camp, this is the group I'd love to see... 3-4 Base

DE: Jay Hayes (6'3, 290lbs)
2. Khalid Kareem (6'4, 285lbs)
3. Andrew Trumbetti (6'4, 270lbs)
4. Kurt Hinish (6'2, 285lbs)

NG: Daniel Cage (6'1, 315lbs)
2. Pete Mokwuah (6'3, 320lbs)
3. Micah Dew-Treadway (6'4, 315lbs)
4. Darnell Ewell (6'3, 305lbs)

DE: Jerry Tillery (6'6, 310lbs)
2. Jonathan Bonner (6'3, 290lbs)
3. Elijah Taylor (6'3, 290lbs)
4. Jerron Cage (6'3, 280lbs)

OLB (Rush): Daelin Hayes (6'3, 255lbs)
2. Julian Okwara: (6'4, 245lbs)
3. Jamir Jones: (6'3, 240lbs)

ILB: Te'Von Coney (6'1, 240lbs)
2. Greer Martini (6'3, 245lbs)
3. Jonathan Jones (5'11, 230lbs)
4. Drew White (6'1, 230lbs)

ILB: Nyles Morgan (6'1, 245lbs)
2. Josh Barajas (6'2, 245lbs)
3. David Adams (6'1, 235lbs)

OLB (Drop): Asmar Bilal (6'2, 235lbs)
2. Drue Tranquil (6'2, 235lbs)
3.Pete Werner (6'3, 225lbs)

CB: Nick Watkins (6'1, 200lbs)
2. Troy Pride (5'11, 185lbs)
3. Ashton White (5'11, 195lbs)

FS: Devin Studstill (6'1, 205lbs)
2. Jalen Elliot (6'0, 200lbs)
3. Saiid Adebo (6'0, 190lbs)
4. Nicco Fertitta (5'9, 185lbs)

SS: Chase Claypool (6'4, 220lbs)
2. Spencer Perry (6'2, 210lbs)
3. Isaiah Robertson (6'2, 200lbs)
4. Spencer Perry (6'2, 210lbs)

CB: Donte Vaughn (6'2, 205lbs)
2. Julian Love (5'11, 195lbs)
3. Shaun Crawford (5'9, 190lbs)***

NB: Julian Love (5'11, 195lbs)
2. Thomas Graham (5'9, 185lbs)
3. Shaun Crawford (5'9, 190lbs)

Really like the setup of that defense in a 3-4 look. Will be much deeper and more experienced across the board next year. Have always thought ND's personnel was better suited to develop into 3-4 personnel.

 

[BGI User 348]

Chase at SS.....interesting. He plays with energy for sure! Hope ND is not always "a year away".

BEAT da howlers!

 

[perseverare]

well, Tillery to OT has to happen if ND whiffs on it's LT targets.
There has been no indication of Claypool to D. But if it does happen then there is a model plan to follow and that is MSU and how they used Brad Van Pelt.

But, on a message board rosters look like great lineups. IIO, you posted several of these linups in recent seasons. In each you felt they were strong lineups.

Once again if that is the lineup that comes to be, it will be weak along the front. There just is no one to create havoc on the line.

Lets see how the rest of the games go in '16, chest pounding for '17 is a bit premature.

 

[Irish2684]

All these names that we are familiar with and feel should be good players stacked on a depth chart is all good and fun. The problem is that these same players are not getting it done on the field. So these players either need to man up and get better, be coached better to hopefully get better, or simply be replaced by someone that is better.

 

[zonairish]

Chase from all accounts could play anywhere on the field . sounds like a stud. Will be trained @ SS or will they use him on offense

 

[IrishInOntario]

well, Tillery to OT has to happen if ND whiffs on it's LT targets.
There has been no indication of Claypool to D. But if it does happen then there is a model plan to follow and that is MSU and how they used Brad Van Pelt.

But, on a message board rosters look like great lineups. IIO, you posted several of these linups in recent seasons. In each you felt they were strong lineups.

Once again if that is the lineup that comes to be, it will be weak along the front. There just is no one to create havoc on the line.

Lets see how the rest of the games go in '16, chest pounding for '17 is a bit premature.

First of all, Tillery does not have to move to OT. You'don't like him to, but saying it needs to happen is an exaggeration. McGlinchey could very well be back in 2017. Bars will be around for another couple years. Eichenberg and Kraemer are both waiting in the wings and Josh Lugg will be next in line. Hunter Bivin also plays both guard and tackle.

Also, nobody is pounding their chest. I'm not one of the people on this board that thinks ND needs a a top 10 defense to make the playoffs. Even a top 50 defense would put ND into a situation where if they score like they're capable, there isn't a game on their schedule they can't win.

Regarding Claypool, I'd rather him stay at WR, but with Hunter, St. Brown, Jones, Stepherson, Boykin, Holmes, Mckinley, Sanders and Finke, likely as returning next year and the addition of a talented freshman class of pass catchers, there is room for somebody to move and Claypool is the most obvious guy, especially given how physically ready he'd be to make the move under a new defensive coordinator, where everyone would be learning from scratch.

 

[Izo]

Perhaps D.Hayes could be an effective pass rusher .Watching other teams like Washington , Alabama, Ohio State ,etc, they are getting it done with the front four and when they sometimes blitz a linebacker or safety ,really puts pressure on the quarterback ,either throwing the ball early to the receivers ,throwing the ball away,or taking a sack. Who else on the line can rush the quarterback ?

The ND roster is very familiar to Die- Hard Irish , but many of the players have not lived up to the hype, not developed ,or were
over rated with their 4- star status .

 

[perseverare]

Tillery is an ordinary DT (that should be at DE on defense)
but he has a far higher cieling at OT. McGlinch and Nelson should go to the draft. Playing just 1 game too many in college risks an injury. ((Bars is also a draft possible candidate and should ask for an evaluation; the other guys are all about 'meh' to unproven potential)

Claypool would be a great WR or a great OLB/S/SS - comes down to where the kid wants to play! he needs to be the deciding vote! it is his future.

 

[Jalex1227]

Shaun Crawford no better than the three deep? Are you expecting significant drop off due to his injuries?

 

[MTIrish98]

If they can find a leader (DC + coaching staff), this defense could have a lot of potential in the 2-3 year horizon.

I'm not sure the Tillery to OT scenario would work as well as you want it to Perse. He's played 2 years on DL now. One year to learn and another year to be a star may not be worth it. Does he have that much talent at OT that he can step in after two years away from OL and beat out the young studs that HH has been recruiting? I don't know, but that's a tough leap to make.

If he wants to play DL and is one of our best interior DLs, then let's use him there and leverage his strengths. He admitted that he has been distracted by college life and not 100% focused on FB, so he has a lot of growth at DL too.

 

[MTIrish98]

Claypool would be a great WR or a great OLB/S/SS - comes down to where the kid wants to play! he needs to be the deciding vote! it is his future.

Why don't you feel the same way about Tillery? As I recall, he is the one who preferred defense.

 

[cgvr]

Heading into camp, this is the group I'd love to see... 3-4 Base

DE: Jay Hayes (6'3, 290lbs)
2. Khalid Kareem (6'4, 285lbs)
3. Andrew Trumbetti (6'4, 270lbs)
4. Kurt Hinish (6'2, 285lbs)

NG: Daniel Cage (6'1, 315lbs)
2. Pete Mokwuah (6'3, 320lbs)
3. Micah Dew-Treadway (6'4, 315lbs)
4. Darnell Ewell (6'3, 305lbs)

DE: Jerry Tillery (6'6, 310lbs)
2. Jonathan Bonner (6'3, 290lbs)
3. Elijah Taylor (6'3, 290lbs)
4. Jerron Cage (6'3, 280lbs)

OLB (Rush): Daelin Hayes (6'3, 255lbs)
2. Julian Okwara: (6'4, 245lbs)
3. Jamir Jones: (6'3, 240lbs)

ILB: Te'Von Coney (6'1, 240lbs)
2. Greer Martini (6'3, 245lbs)
3. Jonathan Jones (5'11, 230lbs)
4. Drew White (6'1, 230lbs)

ILB: Nyles Morgan (6'1, 245lbs)
2. Josh Barajas (6'2, 245lbs)
3. David Adams (6'1, 235lbs)

OLB (Drop): Asmar Bilal (6'2, 235lbs)
2. Drue Tranquil (6'2, 235lbs)
3.Pete Werner (6'3, 225lbs)

CB: Nick Watkins (6'1, 200lbs)
2. Troy Pride (5'11, 185lbs)
3. Ashton White (5'11, 195lbs)

FS: Devin Studstill (6'1, 205lbs)
2. Jalen Elliot (6'0, 200lbs)
3. Saiid Adebo (6'0, 190lbs)
4. Nicco Fertitta (5'9, 185lbs)

SS: Chase Claypool (6'4, 220lbs)
2. Spencer Perry (6'2, 210lbs)
3. Isaiah Robertson (6'2, 200lbs)
4. Spencer Perry (6'2, 210lbs)

CB: Donte Vaughn (6'2, 205lbs)
2. Julian Love (5'11, 195lbs)
3. Shaun Crawford (5'9, 190lbs)***

NB: Julian Love (5'11, 195lbs)
2. Thomas Graham (5'9, 185lbs)
3. Shaun Crawford (5'9, 190lbs)

Really like the setup of that defense in a 3-4 look. Will be much deeper and more experienced across the board next year. Have always thought ND's personnel was better suited to develop into 3-4 personnel.

More like...

 

[perseverare]

Why don't you feel the same way about Tillery? As I recall, he is the one who preferred defense.

Physically, JT is the 2nd coming of Ron Stanley; maybe even more athletic. JT is just not the 'froth at the mouth' kind you need at DL.
well, the question would 1st be put to him for agreement. But after 2 seasons on the DL, his payday looks like it would be on OL.
As to need, think of the OL depth w/o Nelson, MCGlinch and possibly Barrs? 1 injury and major issues are upon you. And injury is something Kelly teams are familiar with.

You guys are free to disagree. But if the OL becomes as much a problem as the DL don't start bellowing.
Some sounded the alarm about the D and were put off by these long list of 'depth'. But it was depth more of numbers than qualified playoff level starters. And now you biting again!

 

[Telx1]

Hard to argue against a 3-4 with the players ND has recruited. It wasn't that long ago that many here argued that ND couldn't recruit the NG position required of the 3-4, and that we could recruit for the 4-3 more easily. Kelly seems to clearly be moving in the same direction as IIO suggests; and whether you like Kelly or not, it's refreshing to hear him focus on the players skills and abilities to find their best fit within the scheme, and the flexibility in schemes to optimize these. Most of us here have been clamoring for this approach for awhile now, although I mistakenly thought we had the personnel to play BVG's scheme this year.

As to the specifics of the OP, I expect to see Crawford on the field a lot, possibly as the starting nickel back. I don't have any sense for the best place to play Chase, other than to say he needs to see the field. Very impressive athlete who has been our best most consistent ST player. I could see a scenario where he moves to SS next year, and then grows into an OLB the next, but he might also become an elite WR. That decision will be an interesting one to watch. Surprised to see IIO wanting to see Tillery continue on defense given his suggestion last week that he be moved back to offense next year, and I am in full agreement. He isn't a star, but he has been one of our two best DL and I expect him to excel as one in his third year.

 

[cgvr]

Hard to argue against a 3-4 with the players ND has recruited. It wasn't that long ago that many here argued that ND couldn't recruit the NG position required of the 3-4, and that we could recruit for the 4-3 more easily. Kelly seems to clearly be moving in the same direction as IIO suggests; and whether you like Kelly or not, it's refreshing to hear him focus on the players skills and abilities to find their best fit within the scheme, and the flexibility in schemes to optimize these. Most of us here have been clamoring for this approach for awhile now, although I mistakenly thought we had the personnel to play BVG's scheme this year.

As to the specifics of the OP, I expect to see Crawford on the field a lot, possibly as the starting nickel back. I don't have any sense for the best place to play Chase, other than to say he needs to see the field. Very impressive athlete who has been our best most consistent ST player. I could see a scenario where he moves to SS next year, and then grows into an OLB the next, but he might also become an elite WR. That decision will be an interesting one to watch. Surprised to see IIO wanting to see Tillery continue on defense given his suggestion last week that he be moved back to offense next year, and I am in full agreement. He isn't a star, but he has been one of our two best DL and I expect him to excel as one in his third year.

Reread what you posted and keep saying, "It's year 7 for goodness sakes...zero identity....zero..."

 

[MTIrish98]

Physically, JT is the 2nd coming of Ron Stanley; maybe even more athletic. JT is just not the 'froth at the mouth' kind you need at DL.
well, the question would 1st be put to him for agreement. But after 2 seasons on the DL, his payday looks like it would be on OL.
As to need, think of the OL depth w/o Nelson, MCGlinch and possibly Barrs? 1 injury and major issues are upon you. And injury is something Kelly teams are familiar with.

You guys are free to disagree. But if the OL becomes as much a problem as the DL don't start bellowing.
Some sounded the alarm about the D and were put off by these long list of 'depth'. But it was depth more of numbers than qualified playoff level starters. And now you biting again!

He might be better at OL, I can't confirm or dispute that. You didn't answer my question though.

Why do you think Claypool should get to choose where he plays, but you think Tillery should move to OL even though his preference was/is DL?

 

[perseverare]

He might be better at OL, I can't confirm or dispute that. You didn't answer my question though.

Why do you think Claypool should get to choose where he plays, but you think Tillery should move to OL even though his preference was/is DL?

I did answer you. check again. It was the purpose of the post.

 

[zonairish]

Hard to argue against a 3-4 with the players ND has recruited. It wasn't that long ago that many here argued that ND couldn't recruit the NG position required of the 3-4, and that we could recruit for the 4-3 more easily. Kelly seems to clearly be moving in the same direction as IIO suggests; and whether you like Kelly or not, it's refreshing to hear him focus on the players skills and abilities to find their best fit within the scheme, and the flexibility in schemes to optimize these. Most of us here have been clamoring for this approach for awhile now, although I mistakenly thought we had the personnel to play BVG's scheme this year.

As to the specifics of the OP, I expect to see Crawford on the field a lot, possibly as the starting nickel back. I don't have any sense for the best place to play Chase, other than to say he needs to see the field. Very impressive athlete who has been our best most consistent ST player. I could see a scenario where he moves to SS next year, and then grows into an OLB the next, but he might also become an elite WR. That decision will be an interesting one to watch. Surprised to see IIO wanting to see Tillery continue on defense given his suggestion last week that he be moved back to offense next year, and I am in full agreement. He isn't a star, but he has been one of our two best DL and I expect him to excel as one in his third year.

Kelly has no choice here, if he doesn't the door will slam on his butt

 

[IrishInOntario]

Pers and I would both love to see Tillery play OT, because his upside is nearly unlimited, however, Jerry has wanted to play defense since his senior year in high school, so unless he can be convinced otherwise, it doesn't matter what we think. Regardless, I think he can have KLM impact as a 3-4 defensive end.

As for Claypool, I think he has a world of upside at WR, but this is COLLEGE football and ND has a loaded receiving core, with the best WR coach in the country and another talented group of freshman coming in the 2017 class. Claypool is not going to start over St. Brown or Hunter as starting WR's next year, nobody is taking Sanders out of the slot. Aliz'e Jones is the same player and will be back at TE, with Weishar and Luatua behind him, with 2 of the top 3 incoming freshman TE's landing in South Bend as well... Kevin Stepherson needs to keep developing as Hunter's replacement at X, as does Javon Mckinley at W, behind St. Brown... Also, moving Claypool to safety thins out the depth a little bit, making the position a little bit more attractive to a guy like Osiris St. Brown, who ND will be trying to flip right up to NSD.

 

[perseverare]

Agree on JT. (players have to be 100% on board for career affected moves)


I also think Claypool would be a bigger impact on defense where he is involved in every down than on offense where he would get 5-10 touches or looks.

When I see that kind of talent and vesatility, Invariably Van Pelt is the guy I think of. A guy like that takes so much field away from offenses.

 

[Granite45]

3. Shaun Crawford (5'9, 190lbs)***

Please clarify, expand.

 

[MTIrish98]

I did answer you. check again. It was the purpose of the post.

Not exactly. Your answer was that YOU think he'd be better at it, but my question is about giving the young man a choice (like what you propose for Claypool), not what he'd be best at.

He's filling a big need on the team as a 1st team DL. If that's where he wants to play, its tough to argue with his decision.

 

[Get Nasty]

So Big Mike just announced he will be back for a 5th year, and it was his plan all along. Get nelson to come back and that's a dominant left line and much improved right line with a year of experience.

Agree big time on the Defense going to a 3-4. Everything sounds really good on paper, but like always. WE NEED NO MAJOR INJURIES OR SUSPENSIONS! We don't have the depth even next year to lose a Morgan, or Studstill, or cage, or the hayes, etc.

 

[perseverare]

Not exactly. Your answer was that YOU think he'd be better at it, but my question is about giving the young man a choice (like what you propose for Claypool), not what he'd be best at.

He's filling a big need on the team as a 1st team DL. If that's where he wants to play, its tough to argue with his decision.

i specifically said JT would have the say! 3rd sentence. it is even in your quote of my post.


"...the question would 1st be put to him for agreement. But after 2 seasons on the DL, his payday looks like it would be on OL...."

 

[IrishInOntario]

Please clarify, expand.

The stars relate to his health. Achilles injuries can take a long time to come back from and after an ACL and an achilles, I want to see him back and healthy before I put him above two really quality football players in Love and Graham.

Crawford is a starter if he is back to health and is the same player, otherwise, he could fall down the depth chart.

 

[LA Irish]

You forgot about DJ Morgan.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Accidentally listed Perry twice, Morgan was the name I meant to list in place of the 2nd "Spencer Perry". Thanks for the catch...

You may notice that I didn't list a few other guys on ND's roster as well... Reason being that a few guys are simply still fairly far behind in their development and I don't see them in any kind of serious competition for playing time in 2017.

 

[MTIrish98]

i specifically said JT would have the say! 3rd sentence. it is even in your quote of my post.


"...the question would 1st be put to him for agreement. But after 2 seasons on the DL, his payday looks like it would be on OL...."

I apologize then. I kept going back to your original post -- not your response.

 

[perseverare]

Physically, JT is the 2nd coming of Ron Stanley; maybe even more athletic. JT is just not the 'froth at the mouth' kind you need at DL.
well, the question would 1st be put to him for agreement. But after 2 seasons on the DL, his payday looks like it would be on OL.
As to need, think of the OL depth w/o Nelson, MCGlinch and possibly Barrs? 1 injury and major issues are upon you. And injury is something Kelly teams are familiar with.

You guys are free to disagree. But if the OL becomes as much a problem as the DL don't start bellowing.
Some sounded the alarm about the D and were put off by these long list of 'depth'. But it was depth more of numbers than qualified playoff level starters. And now you biting again!

I apologize then. I kept going back to your original post -- not your response.

was a valid question. no problem.

 

[stu4don]

If kizer and mcclinchey come back... whoa, we are going to have a hell of an offense!

We need a DC to coach up and inspire these guys IIO! I like our talent and athleticism. No Mantis or Jaylons tho, no Days either... do you see any young guys coming in who have that kind of difference making potential?

 

[perseverare]

If kizer and mcclinchey come back... whoa, we are going to have a hell of an offense!

We need a DC to coach up and inspire these guys IIO! I like our talent and athleticism. No Mantis or Jaylons tho, no Days either... do you see any young guys coming in who have that kind of difference making potential?

The guys committed or are Fr. are similar in play style as those on the roster, but another talent notch above.
The kind of player missing is the impact pass rush guy that gets the Opponent's OC's attention.
The guy that gets you a sack and brings constant pressure. Without that guy, your asking other guys to try to do things they really are not capable of.

 

[twalsh]

The guys committed or are Fr. are similar in play style as those on the roster, but another talent notch above.
The kind of player missing is the impact pass rush guy that gets the Opponent's OC's attention.
The guy that gets you a sack and brings constant pressure. Without that guy, your asking other guys to try to do things they really are not capable of.

Do we still think Daelin Hayes has the potential to eventually be that guy, similar to how Shembo developed into that guy?

 

[perseverare]

Hayes plays like a LB hybrid and will bring occaisional QB pressure but ND needs the big DE and 1 guy that can get a lil push in the midfle; you have to break down the pass protection to a degree to keep QB's from getting comfortable.

ND is hot after those 2 guys! still some time to persuade them!

 

[Grotto_22]

I like this list a lot.

- +1 Tranquill to OLB as a hybrid suits him best.
-Claypool to SS? Did he play there in HS? Has there been ANY talk about this by staff?
- Jerry Tillery... man he doesnt seam to have a DL attitude. Seems to have much more of a pass protection OL attitude. I have expected more from him.
- Other than that, our D could be SCARY next year. I do think we need to go 3-4 especially because we recruit more/better LBs than we do DTs.

 

[NDCap]

Claypool could easily move to the secondary especially with Alize Jones returning to that Hybrid WR/TE slot. All the WR's return and McKinley hasn't even played yet. IMO He should be a FS and Studstill to SS. They need athletes in the secondary that can break up passes .

 

[NDCap]

Tillery is staying on the DL. There is not much there. Bonner and J Hayes are decent . Kareem maybe a good player. All ? there. ND has some good OL waiting to play.