We aren't recruiting or operating on the same playing field as elite programs. Even Kelly said we shop from a different aisle. Long before Kelly got here that was decided. He sucks but its deeper than him
Sadly, Exaclty What We Predicted
- Thread starter IrishInOntario
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I don't disagree with what you just said, but please tell me what loss can you attribute to the administration? None, and I'm reluctant to even say Bama 12. Stop using that as an excuse. Every loss is because of Kelly. Not a lack of talent, etc.
fine, but let's not treat him like the devil either - CW left him a crapshack, especially on defense... and say whatever you want about him, but he is good at developing players and spotting talent...
if he does go, he'll leave the place better than where he found it...
Ok. Like IIO, I'll ask you. What loss was because of talent under BK? Outside of Bama 12, you can't say anyone.
Do I need to pull Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, Florida State, etc, etc draft numbers over the past 10 years?
The point I'm making is that if those guys go to Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Georgia (now that Kirby is there), etc, etc, they'll not only develop into elite players (which they could do at ND as well) They'll be emersed in a culture of winning and They'll compete for titles. That's why most players of their caliber are choosing those schools over ND right now.
I LOVE watching the attitude, swagger, toughness and passion Dabo's kids play with down at Clemson. Kelly Bryant almost got into a fist fight (Tony Rice style) today on the South Carolina sideline. He tried to take on 4 South Carolina players by himself. Then he went out and stepped on their throats and hung 40+ on them... Our QB picks people up after they tackle him and he pats them on the head... One guy is a warrior who isn't going to fold in the face of pressure or adversity. The other guy is a "Notre Dame kid".
Talent carries you through the weeks when you are less than your best. Donyou watch other teams? Do Clemson, Alabama and Ohio State get up every week? Heck no. They're 18-22 year olds. Sometimes they come out flat. Sometimes the opponent is just more motivated. The difference between those teams and ND, however, is the talent gap. That immense edge in talent over most of their opponents gets them through during "off" weeks. ND doesn't have edge. They need to be locked in and at focused every week because their talent gap isn't exteme enough to carry them when they come out flat.
It's not just ND. Michigan has the exact same problem.
You acted like ND didn't have any invested interest in these kids as football players..? You named 4 schools that put more players in the league than ND, 4 schools that operate a way ND wants nothing to do with. You're a mess,
I'd argue 90% of all D1 players don't play in the NFL and ND cares about their futures and graduating them. Those schools grad rates are shit compared to ND.. so as a player, come to ND where they have put more players in the league besides 4 schools and have the highest grad rate.. your argument that ND doesn't care about them as football players is GARBAGE.
Michigan has no offense, a shitty rushing attack and no QB, but it has nothing to do with administration. Trust me. I live in Michigan and know that cars are plentiful.
USC has had more talent, Clemson, FSU, UGA, Oh St was the most talented team in the country in 2016.
You are exactly right. Leahy was the Saban of his time. ND treated him like ______at the end. Shame on them.
Said it on another post. Kelly is good at coaching overachievers to a point. Then he underperforms: see 2012, 2015 and this year. Maybe that is why he didn't coach the Cincinnati game vs. OSU - maybe he doesn't like those big games. I was a supporter, I still believe he is the best since the late 1980s-early 1990s holtz. But I'm tired of losing big games in November, December and Jan. There has to be someone out there who can bring the fire back to this program. The way Pete did at USC, the way Saban did at Ala -- both programs were in worst shape than ND right now. But they brought them back.
Kelly lost me tonight, it started during the Miami game but this is the straw.
The Lunch pail, beer drinking crowd is long gone @ ND. That has now permeated the team. What’s even more incredible then the usual BK boot lickers. How do the mods on the paid site all pick the Irish to win with 2 of them saying Irish win easily. The mods, The blue& Gold paper, the boot lickers are nothing more then a bunch of North Korean propagandists. Could you imagine SEC schools selling their tickets? Time to drain the swamp.
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“One guy is a warrior who isn't going to fold in the face of pressure or adversity. The other guy is a "Notre Dame kid".”
What a bunch of bullshit. So you have to be a dirtbag that gets in fights to be good in football? Coaches like you are the worst kind. Fawning over punks. You can still be as tough as anyone else and still be a good sport. Go root for someone else if that’s what you want. I’ll take a good kid that will still not be afraid to punch you in the mouth, figuratively speaking. They’re out there. Hire a coach that can find them.
What a bunch of bullshit. So you have to be a dirtbag that gets in fights to be good in football? Coaches like you are the worst kind. Fawning over punks. You can still be as tough as anyone else and still be a good sport. Go root for someone else if that’s what you want. I’ll take a good kid that will still not be afraid to punch you in the mouth, figuratively speaking. They’re out there. Hire a coach that can find them.
I don't think you understood. Sure, in 2005 under Weis, you could say we lost due to talent. I'm not saying that one team has more or less talent than the other. I'm saying that those losses were not due to a lack of talent, etc....just look at last night. Did we lose due to a lack of talent? Did our lack of talent cause us to look uninspired, make our RB look injured, and QB look like he does? Did the lack of talent force us to run outside the tackles vs a faster Miami team and between the tackles against a big, slow Stanford?
Lol Kelly Bryant is a dirtbag? The kid has never gotten into any trouble. He spent a month of his life in the hospital in high school battling an abscess that nearly killed him. He fought his way back from being extremely sick to have a wonderful senior season... What makes Kelly Bryant a punk? He plays with passion and conviction and a burning desire to win and not to back down.
I guess by your definition Notre Dame's last National Championship winning quarterback, Tony Rice, was a punk too. He had the exact same demeanor that Bryant does. He was right in the middle of the fight in the tunnel vs Miami. In fact, many say he was one of the primary instigators in that fight.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Top tier football programs treat football like it is war. Mentally soft people don't belong anywhere near that kind of environment. ND has way too many mentally soft kids and a coach that can't change that because he's gone soft himself. They shrivel up in the face of any adversity whatsoever. There is disbelief that infects this program to its core. It has for years. You can recruit all the talent you want. You can bring 1000 new strength coaches in... But It's all mental. While ND is holding captains press conferences, selling hats for Heisman campaigns and championing its graduation rate, the other elite programs are pulling away on the football field.
How dare you be so benign as to conflate passion, energy, real confidence and swagger, for being a punk. Go back to pre World War II and stay there. I'm not asking ND to recruit criminals, I want the school to stop neutering every kid and coach that comes to ND... I want 85 Te'Von Coney's, Nyles Morgan's, KJ Stepherson's, Julian Love's and Quenton Nelson's. Not in talent, but in attitude.
The last ND team that won a National Championship featured a plethora of kids that were much closer to the kids you see at Clemson or Bama in terms of attitude than they are to the group in South Bend now... That didn't make any of them punks. It made them warriors. That team also featured a coach thst was merciless and at times down right cruel. Holtz was a leader of men, until the university cut his legs out from under him. They did the same to Brian Kelly as soon as the media jumped on him for yelling at players and being "mean". Do you think Urban Meyer, Nick Saban or Dabo Swinney give a flying **** about the media thinking they're "mean"? Hell, Jimbo Fisher just called them out the other day. Their administrations have their backs to the bitter end. What do all those coaches have in common? National Chmapionships and kids that play with swagger. When they lose it's because they get outclassed on that day. They're not soft.
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IO is the most educated poster on this board - knowledgeable and level headed. While I partially agree with your comments on ND’s administration, I can’t totally embrace your comments. ND’s admin wants good kids who pass, aren’t thugs, law abiding that attend class and fit in with the student population. Those kids exist and there are plenty of them.
The players now have fantastic training and studiying facilities and a great training table. The kids have first class support to succeed and improve while at ND.
The rest is up to Kelly and his staff. Is it the Admin’s fault that Kelly’s special teams have sucked for 8 years? Is it the admin’s fault Kelly’s play calling is as predictable as they come? Is it the admin’s fault Kelly hires the worst D coordinator in D1 who can neither coach or recruit? Is it the admin’s fault Kelly takes 7 years to hire a bonafide strength and conditioning coach when it was obvious from year 1? Is it the admin’s fault Kelly does not know how to game scheme or make adjustments? Is it the admin’s fault Kelly takes 7 years to stop calling the offensive plays when he obviously sucked at it? Is it the admin’s fault Kelly RARELY uses play action on first down or 3rd and short? I could go on but think you get the point.
I agree that It's time to move on from Kelly as soon as a suitable replacement is found. Trust me, we're on the same page there. Not because he's a bad coach, but because he's gone soft and their is no toughness or accountability left in his program. They noe rely on gimmicks, slogans, campaigns and keywords to win football games. None of that helps you on that field.
See my above post regarding the types of players I want. Kids that aren't pseudo tough, rather, confident guys that are actually tough. Give me Zack Martin, Quenton Nelson, Jeff Faine, Theo Riddick, Jimmy Clausen, Tyler Eiffert, TJ Jones, KJ Stepherson, Golden Tate and Michael Floyd on offense, with a proper strength program and any capable coach. On defense I'll take Louis Nix, Stephon Tuitt, Jerry Tillery, Manti Te'o, Nyles Morgan, Te'Von Coney, Shane Walton, KeiVarae Russell, Tom Zbikowski and Harison Smith....
What do many those kids have in common other than being recent ND football players who had alot of success?.. Many of them straddled the line between what is appropriate. You know, I see it every day working in the military. Great people. But tough people. And sometimes that toughness comes with some headaches (think Tate, Floyd, Clausen, Zbikowski, Nix, Tuitt and Russell). None of those kids were squeeky clean... But if I was going to war tomorrow, those are the guys I'm taking with me. People with extreme confidence that can't fathom being ok with losing.
Level headed? I don't get that from some of the comments I have read over the past week. Of course, this whole board is in chaos with Irish fans eating their own over something they have no control over. If ND is going to make a change, they better be damn sure they don't have to go down to their fourth choice. Have a plan. But, as of right now, we have a HC and BW is our QB.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply IO. Agree with all of the above mentioned players. They had an edge which helped. I'm obviously not a Kelly fan. He's an average coach in my opinion who struggles to motivate and is all too predictable. Never like the hire as I was preaching Malzahn at the time who was Tulsa's OC. And believe me, I too get frustrated with the administration. Jenkins has been MUCH better than Malloy but there's room for improvement. There's a happy medium that needs to be found.
I didn’t say Bryant was a dirt bag. You implied we needed dirt bags to win. We lost cuz we turned it over a bunch of times, again. If you wanna go off on a tangent about passion and swagger and attitude, go ahead, it’ll fall on deaf ears w/ me. Just another know it all coach that thinks his word is the gospel. Jam your recruiting analysis and the pre-World war II reference too.
IIO, talent doesn’t explain 2 - 7 vs. Stanford over the last 9
i got you and agree 100% with the exception of Oh St 2016. ND was outmatched. I guess you have to give BK credit for closing the talent gap that lasted for over 10 years but on the other end lose your mind that ND is losing for a different reason other than talent- coaching/motivation.
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