Sad truth

[88ND]

This is the sad truth.

I'm very soured on Notre Dame right now and I know I'm not alone.
Every time I try to be optimistic and find a silver lining it's just become impossible to get beyond the elephant in the room..one Brian Kelly.

Notre Dame talks the talk but the decision makers are NOT keeping up their end of the bargain. The talk is purely hollow.

As fans we do our part and support the team regardless. We don't expect titles every year even in the good old days but in the least we expect our team we support to try as hard and give their best effort. We're to support our best and this is to be a two way street...no?
This last season was very bothersome to me. If Brian Kelly is doing his best then sadly his best is not good enough.

The powers that be we expect to be making their very best decisions.

This last season Notre Dame football the product was a complete embarrassment.

These were things that had NOTHING to do with speed, strength, athleticism etc.

Brian Kelly was never a good fundamental guy offense or defense but his product on display this year was the worst fundamentally I've ever seen Notre Dame.

Tackling, special teams, confusion, down and distance fiasco, the list is a mile long.

We don't have to win every game but the product on display doesn't have to be embarrassing.

This debacle is now on the administration and if they think Kelly will win eight games and look like a hero for doubling his wins...

Fans will walk. Write it down.

Kelly will either make the playoff or this will be his last. It has to be. It's that paramount and that short offal leash he should have.

Sucks for him because everyone will now second guess every single thing he does but he made this mess of a bed so we shall see.

 

[dagimpper1]

Good post of course you know you will get attacked by some for suggesting ND win a title.

 

[Kelso86]

This is the sad truth.

I'm very soured on Notre Dame right now and I know I'm not alone.
Every time I try to be optimistic and find a silver lining it's just become impossible to get beyond the elephant in the room..one Brian Kelly.

Notre Dame talks the talk but the decision makers are NOT keeping up their end of the bargain. The talk is purely hollow.

As fans we do our part and support the team regardless. We don't expect titles every year even in the good old days but in the least we expect our team we support to try as hard and give their best effort. We're to support our best and this is to be a two way street...no?
This last season was very bothersome to me. If Brian Kelly is doing his best then sadly his best is not good enough.

The powers that be we expect to be making their very best decisions.

This last season Notre Dame football the product was a complete embarrassment.

These were things that had NOTHING to do with speed, strength, athleticism etc.

Brian Kelly was never a good fundamental guy offense or defense but his product on display this year was the worst fundamentally I've ever seen Notre Dame.

Tackling, special teams, confusion, down and distance fiasco, the list is a mile long.

We don't have to win every game but the product on display doesn't have to be embarrassing.

This debacle is now on the administration and if they think Kelly will win eight games and look like a hero for doubling his wins...

Fans will walk. Write it down.

Kelly will either make the playoff or this will be his last. It has to be. It's that paramount and that short offal leash he should have.

Sucks for him because everyone will now second guess every single thing he does but he made this mess of a bed so we shall see.

Taking a famous quote from the movie "Animal House" -- "My advice to you is to drink heavily!"

But seriously, you hit a point, everyone is disappointed, pissed off -- use your own description and reasons here -- about the 2016 season. What true fan would not be. But, there also comes a point in time that you just need to put it on the shelf, and live for another season. As fans, there is only so much we can control -- the rest is out of our hands.

 

[Buguit]

Due to Swarbick and his screw up (extension) ... next year is now being mailed in .... period

 

[Toby Smart]

Don't tell the players that next season is being mailed in. When they get back from Christmas break, they will begin winter work outs while we doze in our easy chair. They will prep for Spring practice where the depth chart will be earned. BW will be working his Domer butt off in the off season (film work, throwing drills, timing with WRs, learning defenses and his own play book) while we doze in our easy chair. I respect our players much more than to say 2017 will be mailed in. The staff have their careers on the line. BK has made changes. Good changes. I get the fans are uneasy and restless. I am too. But, I will never short change the program by saying 2017 will be mailed in. There was zero evidence that the players quit on BK last season but it continued to be a narrative fueled by the anti-BK bunch.

 

[Kelso86]

Due to Swarbick and his screw up (extension) ... next year is now being mailed in .... period

Well, for you, look at the positive side -- at least you do not have to waste your Saturday's watching ND Football since, as you put it, the season is already over before it even has started. Now, you can get some overtime at the local Walmart to fill the void of ND football!

 

[Roady]

When you go 4-8....you can expect fans to get restless. Unless you are Indiana or Rutgers.

A program who takes pride in their football heritage, and in being nationally relevant, can't readily stomach having losing seasons...even a legend like Bobby Bowden was let go after a 7-6 season. His 33rd straight season with a winning record but the worst in 33 years.

The Irish expect to be in the top tier of programs. It is Notre Dame, for god's sake.

One bad season isn't the end. But string together a couple of bad seasons and the talk will be of decline and lack of relevancy.

Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire.

 

[Java65]

Great post. I have also soured on ND not so much because of the football program per se but because of the realization that ND is not the institution I believed it to be. They are run by academics that have a disdain for football and honestly I could accept that if they were not immensely hypocritical about it. They dislike football but they love the money it generates and therefore the tolerate it as long as the program produces revenue.

They lie to the fans telling them they want to have a competitive football program but that's not true. What they want is to be an Ivy League school that generates tens of millions of dollars from their program by running a marketing campaign based on outright lies. The people that run ND are the moneychangers in the Temple. They use peoples love of ND football to bilk the faithful out of millions.

Shame on them and their corruption

 

[twalsh]

Great post. I have also soured on ND not so much because of the football program per se but because of the realization that ND is not the institution I believed it to be. They are run by academics that have a disdain for football and honestly I could accept that if they were not immensely hypocritical about it. They dislike football but they love the money it generates and therefore the tolerate it as long as the program produces revenue.

They lie to the fans telling them they want to have a competitive football program but that's not true. What they want is to be an Ivy League school that generates tens of millions of dollars from their program by running a marketing campaign based on outright lies. The people that run ND are the moneychangers in the Temple. They use peoples love of ND football to bilk the faithful out of millions.

Shame on them and their corruption

Total unadulterated BS.

 

[Kelso86]

Great post. I have also soured on ND not so much because of the football program per se but because of the realization that ND is not the institution I believed it to be. They are run by academics that have a disdain for football and honestly I could accept that if they were not immensely hypocritical about it. They dislike football but they love the money it generates and therefore the tolerate it as long as the program produces revenue.

They lie to the fans telling them they want to have a competitive football program but that's not true. What they want is to be an Ivy League school that generates tens of millions of dollars from their program by running a marketing campaign based on outright lies. The people that run ND are the moneychangers in the Temple. They use peoples love of ND football to bilk the faithful out of millions.

Shame on them and their corruption

Well, the good thing for you is that you are not required to buy tickets or merchandise to support the habit!

 

[Telx1]

I wanted a change at HC, but I'm not distressed or negative over Kelly being in charge next season. I would be if he had moved Elston to D.C., retained Booker as TE and ST coach, and kept Longo in charge of S & C. He did none of these and has demonstrated he is acutely aware of major on field deficiencies. Now, If he would just add an under center set on short yardage running plays with two backs and establish a smash mouth short yardage personality. Those of us who bitched all year about these deficiencies should be supportive of the changes Kelly has made, and cautiously optimistic about 2017. Those that absolutely hate Kelly and think we can never be among the top teams as long as he is HC, are likely to want next year to prove them right. Most of us just want Kelly to right the program. If he can't, then next man in!

 

[cavanaugh208]

Well, for you, look at the positive side -- at least you do not have to waste your Saturday's watching ND Football since, as you put it, the season is already over before it even has started. Now, you can get some overtime at the local Walmart to fill the void of ND football!

Kelso...you are incorrect. It will give the asshat the oppurtunity to continue to bitch and moan. It's the only thing he is good at....

 

[rgc7]

My big fear is that we go 8 4 , and the Cool aid drinkers are all back in full force and tell us what a great turn around we had undef the " Great Kelly " ?

 

[Telx1]

My big fear is that we go 8 4 , and the Cool aid drinkers are all back in full force and tell us what a great turn around we had undef the " Great Kelly " ?

I share this concern. Celebrating an 8-4 season as a great turnaround is akin to falling for the trap Jack set when he literally expressed lowered expectations and standards of success for this program.

 

[BGI User 1596]

My big fear is that we go 8 4 , and the Cool aid drinkers are all back in full force and tell us what a great turn around we had undef the " Great Kelly " ?

Some people are quite content to be part of the lower plebeian society and quite frankly are too intellectually challenged to rise above the debilitated standards of their class.

 

[IrishMike409]

When you go 4-8....you can expect fans to get restless. Unless you are Indiana or Rutgers.

A program who takes pride in their football heritage, and in being nationally relevant, can't readily stomach having losing seasons...even a legend like Bobby Bowden was let go after a 7-6 season. His 33rd straight season with a winning record but the worst in 33 years.

The Irish expect to be in the top tier of programs. It is Notre Dame, for god's sake.

One bad season isn't the end. But string together a couple of bad seasons and the talk will be of decline and lack of relevancy.

Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire.

You're a cry baby. You post the same crap day in day out. Pathetic.

 

[perseverare]

Good post of course you know you will get attacked by some for suggesting ND win a title.

ND is not a contender for national honors. An objective perspective would reveal that ND is not recruiting at the level necessary to compete with the Top 10-12 teams and likely not even Top 15. Now ND may get in a top 15 IF the actual contenders wind up beating each other and pushing each other down in the polls; that is the only way ND moves 'up'.

All one has to do is look at recent national commitments and to which teams those commitments are made.

Recruiting at ND has been on steady decline and continues in that direction. The reasons do not matter if there is no incentive nor motivation to change this trend.

 

[Pennick44]

The OP is a whiny biotch.

 

[Kelso86]

My big fear is that we go 8 4 , and the Cool aid drinkers are all back in full force and tell us what a great turn around we had undef the " Great Kelly " ?

That -- and I think (if ND finishes 8-4) it may depend on "how" ND got to that record. Were they highly competitive, were there a ton of injuries, did they barely escape many times?

Just tossed it out for discussion -- tear it apart! LOL

 

[twalsh]

Those of us who bitched all year about these deficiencies should be supportive of the changes Kelly has made, and cautiously optimistic about 2017.

There are too many people too emotionally invested in getting rid of Kelly to bring themselves to admit anything he does might be positive for the program. Like you, I was in favor of a change at the top. But since that didn't happen I certainly want Kelly to do everything he can to help us get better and be as good as we can be in 2017. Why not be optimistic? You've got two choices, one makes you feel positive, the other makes you feel negative. Why beat yourself up with negativity when it accomplishes nothing? Being a fan is supposed to be an enjoyable experience, not drudgery and misery.

 

[Roady]

You're a cry baby. You post the same crap day in day out. Pathetic.

I do? LOL...You are incorrect. I have NEVER posted about Kelley, the record, etc. I mostly lurk.

Which other one of my 7 total posts on the board are you referring to?

 

[PHJIndy]

Total unadulterated BS.

Yep!

 

[irishfan26]

This season was incredibly puzzling and head scratching. It almost seemed like Kelly forgot how to coach. I was ready for him to move on and he still could (Jacksonville and LA), but Michigan State had just as bad of a year as we did and I don't seem to hear anyone calling for a coaching change there. ND has only finished ranked 3 out of the 7 seasons he has been here. As for recruiting, we hover around top 10 and the worst rated class (2012) had some transfers and NFL players. I had really high expectations this season, but the defense was my x factor. Hopefully Elko can fix what he is inheriting and bring in some good recruits. I'm not sure what to think with Wimbush at the helm next season. I won't be able to tell until we get out on the field next season against Temple and hope we are read to play Georgia, who is returning a ton of talent on offense.

 

[Telx1]

Irish fan, everything I've read about Elko is exceptionally positive. He may not be the best D.C. in college football, but he may be the best available still on a career upward trajectory. The statistical rankings of his Wake defenses made up almost entirely of three and two star guys are beyond impressive. Watching film of his defenses and the way he uses his linebackers, and reading assessments of how our current players fit his position demands, is cause for excitement and optimism. We all know our DL weaknesses, and the problems we've had at safety, but for the first time since Manti left, I am optimistic that we will find ourselves cheering and high fiving instead of screaming at the TV over missed tackles and missed assignments.

 

[Irish Grandeur]

I feel your pain 88. I got caught up in wanting BK gone. Last year was a nightmare season, for sure, but his body of work has been to NC game and in the talk for playoff spots a few other seasons. ND has not been this relevant football-wise in some time.

I like the moves he is making with the staff. He is finally cutting out his buds and getting real assistants in there. I especially like the demotion of his S&C coach and respectfully disagree that S&C did not play into the losses last year. ND got out to plenty early leads in games just to see that lead evaporate.

There has been a tendency for the players to fall off in November in the BK era and unable to close out games. Freakish non-contact injuries to players year after year. Players peaking in strength in their sophomore/junior seasons. It was a good call to open up the S&C position.

 

[Java65]

Total unadulterated BS.

Really, what part. Can you name changes they have made to make the program more competitive. Do you really think there are many (if any) programs that would have retained Kelly after the mediocrity of the last 7 years, all the off the field issues, the fact it has been revealed he has been interviewing for jobs even after the Eagles fiasco.

The sole reason he was retained was because of money. Money is what it's all about for this administration. I'd be willing to listen to any arguments that could explain why ND refuses to make any changes but I have not seen a single one on this board or anywhere else.

 

[Java65]

I wanted a change at HC, but I'm not distressed or negative over Kelly being in charge next season. I would be if he had moved Elston to D.C., retained Booker as TE and ST coach, and kept Longo in charge of S & C. He did none of these and has demonstrated he is acutely aware of major on field deficiencies. Now, If he would just add an under center set on short yardage running plays with two backs and establish a smash mouth short yardage personality. Those of us who bitched all year about these deficiencies should be supportive of the changes Kelly has made, and cautiously optimistic about 2017. Those that absolutely hate Kelly and think we can never be among the top teams as long as he is HC, are likely to want next year to prove them right. Most of us just want Kelly to right the program. If he can't, then next man in!

How many years does he get to right the program, it been 7 years. Even if he wins 10 games next season I don't consider it 'righted' because he has been totally incapable of putting together back-to-back successful seasons so the reality the best case scenario is year 9 before he can do that. I'm not sure what you have seen to lead you to believe he can do that.

 

[twalsh]

Really, what part. Can you name changes they have made to make the program more competitive. Do you really think there are many (if any) programs that would have retained Kelly after the mediocrity of the last 7 years, all the off the field issues, the fact it has been revealed he has been interviewing for jobs even after the Eagles fiasco.

The sole reason he was retained was because of money. Money is what it's all about for this administration. I'd be willing to listen to any arguments that could explain why ND refuses to make any changes but I have not seen a single one on this board or anywhere else.

At the beginning of the Weis era there was:

No Gug
No training table
No early enrollees
No field turf
No Jumbotron
No Shamrock series
No Under Armor

Every one of those changes makes our program more appealing to recruits than was previously the case. Every one was made for the benefit of the program. And in the cases of the training table, the field turf and the Jumbotron, they represent 180 degree turns from what had been the school's philosophy previously.

And you have no idea if money has one iota to do with retaining Kelly. You have no idea what his buyout situation is, so you have no idea what it would cost ND to jettison him. And even if you did know, you'd still have no idea if it was a factor in the decision. I know ND being a private school that can keep things private can be frustrating, but people need to stop making stuff up when they don't have the information.

 

[IrishMike409]

I do? LOL...You are incorrect. I have NEVER posted about Kelley, the record, etc. I mostly lurk.

Which other one of my 7 total posts on the board are you referring to?

My apologies. That was for the OP. I clicked the wrong link! My bad.

 

[irishalice]

My apologies. That was for the OP. I clicked the wrong link! My bad.

Roady is an FSU poster. For a Nole fan, he's pretty reasonable.

 

[Telx1]

How many years does he get to right the program, it been 7 years. Even if he wins 10 games next season I don't consider it 'righted' because he has been totally incapable of putting together back-to-back successful seasons so the reality the best case scenario is year 9 before he can do that. I'm not sure what you have seen to lead you to believe he can do that.

Well Java, most here and throughout ND nation will be happy with a 10 win season, but no, this would not constitute righting the program. Some writer whom I often agree with suggested that ND cannot be considered one of the top football programs again until it puts together three consecutive double digit win regular seasons accompanied by at least one win in a top six bowl. That seems like a reasonable metric to me. As I said, I want Kelly to bring the program back to this level, and will be cheering for this. I frankly don't expect this and will be clamoring for a new head coach if we accomplish less. In the meantime, I choose to hope and cheer.

 

[Java65]

At the beginning of the Weis era there was:

No Gug
No training table
No early enrollees
No field turf
No Jumbotron
No Shamrock series
No Under Armor

Every one of those changes makes our program more appealing to recruits than was previously the case. Every one was made for the benefit of the program. And in the cases of the training table, the field turf and the Jumbotron, they represent 180 degree turns from what had been the school's philosophy previously.

And you have no idea if money has one iota to do with retaining Kelly. You have no idea what his buyout situation is, so you have no idea what it would cost ND to jettison him. And even if you did know, you'd still have no idea if it was a factor in the decision. I know ND being a private school that can keep things private can be frustrating, but people need to stop making stuff up when they don't have the information.

I'll give you the Gug, Training table and early enrollee's the other's have nothing to do with winning and most of them are about generating revenue, not winning games.

That said Weis himself said he had to fight like crazy for the training table and the EE's and he even said that being an alum helped because he knew how ND worked and resources to tap. Both of those things were a decade later than every other program and should have been slam dunks and not pulling teeth.

Honestly the mention of UA, Jumbotron and the Shamrock series just strengthens my belief that football is only a money making program to the administration.

You are correct I don't know the monetary terms of terminating Kelly but I do know this, there isn't a decent program around that would have kept Kelly, not a single one. You can make excuses for ND retaining Kelly but the sad reality is every other school that cares about their football program would have fired him. This has been the attitude since they push Lou out and keeping Kelly is just their big middle finger to the fan base.

 

[Java65]

Well Java, most here and throughout ND nation will be happy with a 10 win season, but no, this would not constitute righting the program. Some writer whom I often agree with suggested that ND cannot be considered one of the top football programs again until it puts together three consecutive double digit win regular seasons accompanied by at least one win in a top six bowl. That seems like a reasonable metric to me. As I said, I want Kelly to bring the program back to this level, and will be cheering for this. I frankly don't expect this and will be clamoring for a new head coach if we accomplish less. In the meantime, I choose to hope and cheer.

Telx, I think the above is a very reasonable set of criteria to consider the ship righted. My problem, like yours, is that the best case scenario is that would happen in year 10 of the Kelly regime.... year 10! Does Jack think in year 8 Kelly is going to have an epiphany and figure it all out?

I listened to Mike Frank's podcast this week and he made a statement that made me more convinced Kelly will fail. They were talking about the offense and Mike said that a lot of people keep talking about Sanford and the offense but Kelly has always been the architect of the offense and has always had his hands in the day to day running of the offense. This is who Kelly is and he is a very poor OC and a very poor QB coach.

edit. For the record I would be very happy with 10 regular season wins.

 

[Roady]

Roady is an FSU poster. For a Nole fan, he's pretty reasonable.

Thank you, maam.

I do love football. And in my 12 years of parochial schooling (Dominicans/Jesuits), I was pretty much force fed Notre Dame football.

Indeed, I am a FSU grad...and I do hope that I am "pretty reasonable". At my age, I am way, way past the testosterone fueled chest thumping of youth.

And...I sincerely believe that fans/programs must maintain a hunger for excellence and not mistake an acceptance of mediocrity for loyalty. We, at FSU, have been there, done that.

Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire.

And the fire must be fed...

 

[KJ23]

I'm just puzzled why ND can't be the innovators of college football. ND has a great business school. Smart people. ND seems to always be behind the competition in all facets of being a top program. ND should always have the best strength and conditioning program at all times. Best equipment at all times. Innovative nutritional program. ND should be changing the landscape not following the landscape. Jumbo trons came out over a decade ago. We're just now getting one. The GUg was behind the times and it's already dated. The question is how does ND become the leaders again? With unlimited money this should be easy. I'm also shocked that the men's bball team facilities are crap. Your ND!

 

[Howard Hall 74]

At the beginning of the Weis era there was:

No Gug
No training table
No early enrollees
No field turf
No Jumbotron
No Shamrock series
No Under Armor

Every one of those changes makes our program more appealing to recruits than was previously the case. Every one was made for the benefit of the program. And in the cases of the training table, the field turf and the Jumbotron, they represent 180 degree turns from what had been the school's philosophy previously.

And you have no idea if money has one iota to do with retaining Kelly. You have no idea what his buyout situation is, so you have no idea what it would cost ND to jettison him. And even if you did know, you'd still have no idea if it was a factor in the decision. I know ND being a private school that can keep things private can be frustrating, but people need to stop making stuff up when they don't have the information.

Your arguments really don't support your case. The things Weis identified, turf, Training Table, EEs etc., the instituting of these items only brought the program up to current college football standards. Now the meeting of the minimum standards is hailed as, what?, ground breaking? From my perspective it only highlights the hypocrisy of ND, the Institution and the BOT. It will gladly accept money for FB, it will hoist themselves upon the shoulders of generations of Irish to sell their school, ideals and promote " Fighting Irish" football, but only begrudgingly attempt to keep up with the market place of college football. That smacks of institutional incompetence and gross mismanagement. And the point of not knowing if money was the determining factor in retaining Kelly only highlights the incredible mismanagement of the football program by the AD. Allowing money to decide the outcome and degrading of the single, most valuable, most recognizable icon of Notre Dame (even when money is plentiful to resolve) just underlines the gross mistake by Swarbrick. A clear history of bad management decisions that would never be tolerated in the private market by any business that has a competent Board of Directors. Only at ND. Thanks Jack.

 

[perseverare]

the thread title says as much as need be said.

Under Swarbrick and Kelly's watch ND, as regards college football, may still be financially relevant, however ND nationally is no longer competitively relevant when it come to championship level football.

 

[IrishInOntario]

I'm just puzzled why ND can't be the innovators of college football. ND has a great business school. Smart people. ND seems to always be behind the competition in all facets of being a top program. ND should always have the best strength and conditioning program at all times. Best equipment at all times. Innovative nutritional program. ND should be changing the landscape not following the landscape. Jumbo trons came out over a decade ago. We're just now getting one. The GUg was behind the times and it's already dated. The question is how does ND become the leaders again? With unlimited money this should be easy. I'm also shocked that the men's bball team facilities are crap. Your ND!

ND is also a deeply conservative, religiously guided institution. Absolutely nothing wrong with that in my estimation, however I wouldn't traditonally attach innovation or progression to either of those foundational pillars.

ND will likely always be a little bit behind the curve in terms of progressive practices ... By choice rather than by ignorance.

 

[IrishInOntario]

the thread title say as much as need be said.

Under Swarbrick and Kelly's watch ND, as regards college football, ND may still be financially relevant, however ND nationally is no longer competitively relevant when it come to championship level football.

But it's not like there isn't the necessary foundation in place to turn that around. In watching every ND game, as I know you do, it's obvious that if ND simply did some little things better, they'd put themselves in position to be a top 10 team, relevant in the national conversation.That obviously starts with coaching, which is something ND needs to do much better. BK is still BK and has his flaws, but we've already seen a team play for a championship at ND under BK, so at least we know that with the right mix of coaching and players, that's our ceiling. While I don't think the current roster is talented enough to play for a championship, I do think 2017 is going to see a positive upgrade in the coaching department, from Elko and Lea (if he does indeed come with Elko) on the defensive side of the ball, to special teams under Polian, to strength and conditioning, even if it's simply the product of excitement under a new staff. I also think ND is getting a net upgrade in the recruiting department as long as the last assistant they hire is a quality recruiter. Elko will be better than BVG because he's young and hungry and will put forth some effort. Polian is a bulldog in the recruiting department and he'll be an upgrade over Booker and should do a good job in California, Arizona and Texas. I think Lea will do a quality job up in the Northeast and he, Denson and Elston will make for a a nice duo up-and-down the coast.

Do I have any delusions of ND competing with Bama or Ohio State for a title any time soon? Not at all. But is the program in a desperate state outside of coming off an embarrassingly, miserable season? I don't think so.

 

[Telx1]

Telx, I think the above is a very reasonable set of criteria to consider the ship righted. My problem, like yours, is that the best case scenario is that would happen in year 10 of the Kelly regime.... year 10! Does Jack think in year 8 Kelly is going to have an epiphany and figure it all out?

I listened to Mike Frank's podcast this week and he made a statement that made me more convinced Kelly will fail. They were talking about the offense and Mike said that a lot of people keep talking about Sanford and the offense but Kelly has always been the architect of the offense and has always had his hands in the day to day running of the offense. This is who Kelly is and he is a very poor OC and a very poor QB coach.

edit. For the record I would be very happy with 10 regular season wins.

Java...glad to see your edit. Sometimes you press your case against Kelly so thoroughly, that it makes others wonder if you prefer to see him fail, etc... didn't think you were of that camp, and glad to see your clarification. Yes, that would be ten years to right the program, and hardly conceivable. What is conceivable, is Kelly delivering a ten win season and then moving on to a TV gig for a few years, getting his batteries recharged, then accepting a lucrative contract to coach at one of the downtrending traditional powers....someplace like Texas the past few years. My hope would be for ND to make a great hire to replace him, and one that follows the ten win season with several of his own. This would be the best case scenario, and more conceivable than Kelly righting the program using this criteria.