Riley Leonard or Ian Book
- Thread starter graceh90
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You can believe whatever you want, all of you guys are insanely biased, anything associated with BK sucks, and anything associated with MF is better. Period. That's not a controversial statement to make about ND fans. As long as there's even a sliver of room for plausibly debatable opinion, then of course RL is better at everything. Nobody who's not invested in hating BK the way ND fans are would necessarily agree. Maybe a few would think RL is better, and some would think Wimbush was better. If they ever paused to think about it or study their highlight reel. Their statistics were similar. I would imagine Denbrock was game-planning ahead of time in anticipation of RL's limitations as a passer, while Wimbush's passing struggles I think were more of a shock to the coaches, who had to scramble on the fly, when he first became the starter. Both teams had a good stable of RBs. And Wimbush's OL was awesome, thankfully.
They're very similar as QBs in their relative strengths and weaknesses, Wimbush ran more like a power RB, and Denbrock runs more like a lanky WR.
I was only addressing Wimbush vs Leonard’s running ability.
I’m actually more on your side regarding Book. We’re not all just biased haters of anything related to BK.
Clausen, Quinn, Mirer, Rice, Montana, Clements, Theismann, Hanratty, Huarte, Horning, Williams, Guglielmi, Lujack, Bertelli…as good as a serviceable quarterback Book was anyone believing he is an all time great needs to study a lot more ND history for their opinion to be taken seriously. Study more, post less young fella
Easy there killer....
I don't think you realize just how elite a QB needs to be to play on Sunday.
Riley is passing better than earlier in the year (not much but an improvement none the less)
But to say anything NFL and Riley in the same sentence is a pipe dream.
I'll never say never but he does NOT possess an NFL arm, strength nor accuracy and it begins and ends right there.
Could he be an emergency QB in the big show? Sure.
But even a dedicated #2 in the NFL is really a stretch.
RL's arm strength is very similar to Book. Neither have a cannon and RL is a little less accurate as Book.
Running ...RL is much better.
Book is still hanging around the NFL on a practice squad. Chiefs....he can thank Tranquill for making that happen..
maybe RL can do the same. He'll do no worse but being a #1 or #2 in the NFL is not going to happen for RL just like Book.
You just like those QBs more because they are part of ND's lore, and some of them went on to NFL success. Ian Book is an all-time great ND QB, indubitably. Not just statistically. He led us to two playoff berths, and he was the engine of the offense. And of course, he was associated with BK. As well as the fact that he was lightly recruited, too low rent for ND fans, who value prestige above all else.
I don't *
* unless
What if he's not 100%.
I can't elaborate on him at Duke. I can only judge what I see present day.
Weak, inaccurate arm is displayed far too often by RL.
His hardest throw ever (Velocity) with our beloved happened against IU.
It was a simple out route but from the far hash.
He snapped that ball in there. It was a fastball with straight line trajectory. Velocity, accuracy etc.
Was he dealing with a lingering injury preventing those throws all year?
Thus my asterisk on him being drafted.
If he's been healthy then no. He'll get a practice squad contract
Like Kelly, Book falls short of any discussion about being an "all time great" on account of his failure to win a championship. Just the way it is.
I think that's bullshit. Everybody disrespected Book while he was playing, that's when the BK bashing sickness was beginning to peak.
How about just winning the big games?
Both BK and Book are zero for _____ against any top 5 team
Zero for...
In any major bowl/playoff game
Hell neither were even competitive in those moments.
One win in a weird covid year playing against Clemson's #2 QB doesn't count
I don’t know. The whole conversation is difficult because the game has changed so much. My gut says no but that’s only based off of stats. Would you?
Leonard is our first QB since Clausen who is truly elite at one thing. Clausen was so accurate but lacked in many other areas.
Leonard is a legit 6’5 gazelle who can put athlete pretty much anyone on the defence. While Wimbush was an elite runner, his passing was so bad it kind of balanced out.
Leonard has very good pocket presence and does an unreal job of escaping the pocket. Leonard also protects the football. If we want any chance of beating an elite team, we need an elite QB, which Ian Book is not.
Did you notice Book couldn’t even outrun the Clemson or Bama defensive linemen? Leonard’s legs are an asset regardless of the team lining up against us.
Leonard is a legit 6’5 gazelle who can put athlete pretty much anyone on the defence. While Wimbush was an elite runner, his passing was so bad it kind of balanced out.
Leonard has very good pocket presence and does an unreal job of escaping the pocket. Leonard also protects the football. If we want any chance of beating an elite team, we need an elite QB, which Ian Book is not.
Did you notice Book couldn’t even outrun the Clemson or Bama defensive linemen? Leonard’s legs are an asset regardless of the team lining up against us.
Yeah, both fall way way short of being all time greats. One major bowl/playoff win, then maybe you could slightly think about it, but still woefully short.
Well he should be, because that's who he compares with, very strikingly, and not Ian Book. Ian Book was/is better than RL, and they're not similar QBs. But Ian Book is an all-time great ND QB, the best product of the BK years, and he took us to the playoffs twice where we lost soundly both times, both times against two outright dominant teams. He never got a chance to play against someone like IU. Or even a mediocre UGA. Clemson and Bama were both thoroughly dominant teams.
And so the clear objective with this thread, very, very clearly, is to take down that alpha QB of the BK years. And come to the conclusion through debate and discussion that RL is better than Book, because he's the threat. Nobody cares about Wimbush, that's who Ian Book put on the bench. Even though RL and Wimbush are remarkably similar. The fact that Ian Book really is an all-time ND great means nothing to you, you just want him taken down as many pegs as you can, with this stupid, almost absurd argument that RL is better than him. And that's what opinions are for. Hey, it's just your opinion, right?
All Americans, Heisman trophy winners, college and NFL hall of famers. The bar to be considered an all time great ND quarterback is very high. Your knowledge of ND history to make a statement of “all time” is limited at best. Study more
When did I say Book means nothing to me and want him taken down as many pegs as I can? Did you read my post that I would prefer Book over RL, as the starter? Clearly you didn't.
Question...
Just curious.
Why do you insist on falling on the sword for BK until the bitter end in time.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
He also never got a chance with a better coaching staff, running game, better defensive team, etc etc...
And possibly the most glaring...
A bona-fide belief that the team isn't inferior to anyone.
BK's teams were mentally beat before kickoff in the most elite games.
But .....
That's years ago and if Book wasn't tiny, had a big arm, he wouldn't be meddling on practice squads.
He won a lot of games he was supposed to win at ND.
P.s.
BK and Book never beat Texas A&M this year on the road.
Seen that fish before. That was a lost game recipe all day long for BK and whomever the QB is...it happened on many occasion.
Fools gold Mr. Kelly was. Nothing more, nothing less.
Well, sorry then. My sincere apologies. Pretty much everyone on this board harbors at least some not inconsiderable antipathy for BK, and usually anything or any player or success achieved, or anything even coterminous with his time at ND by association. And most to many display actively virulent hostility for him. And so I must have confused you with someone else.
RL has been cash money this season for ND, totally delivered as expected, including the lousy passing, which hasn't held us back thus far, and gave a chance for Denbrock to flex his OC chops and scheme very effectively around him. But he doesn't compare to Ian Book as a ND QB, on the merits. If we win the next two games then maybe we can revisit it.
There you go, I answered your question.
I Like Book, but he still wouldn’t look past his first read, towards the middle of the field to a wide open TE/WE. When defenses understood this and took the 1st read away, he’d either do something extraordinary or dance himself into a sack. More likely a sack.
Not even an above average college QB to me. Average at best with minimal points of greatness
Not even an above average college QB to me. Average at best with minimal points of greatness
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Loved Book but Leonard is just a natural leader and baller.
Well he can't catch Book, but he could definitely become a ND legend in the next couple of weeks.
Can't really compare the two. Riley is on a completely different team compared to the team Book was on.
if you compare their stats. Books last year, and Leonard this year (his last and only year), Book was a slightly better passer, but Leonard is a much, better runner. I would have to say the edge would go to Leonard.
Kelly was well known for screwing up the QB room over his 12 years.
if you compare their stats. Books last year, and Leonard this year (his last and only year), Book was a slightly better passer, but Leonard is a much, better runner. I would have to say the edge would go to Leonard.
Kelly was well known for screwing up the QB room over his 12 years.
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Leonard for me. That play where he dove for the first down and almost landed on his head shows how much he wants to win.
when it came to big games BK did suck. Too bad your rose colored glasses of him can't see it.
It shows how great of an athlete he is. There were multiple runs where he pulled away from a Georgia DB. Ian Book is not that type of athlete.
Love Ian, but he was predominately offered by MAC schools and WSU for a reason. Against elite teams, you need either an elite passer or elite athlete, of which Book is neither.
We didn’t create much separation yesterday and when that happened with Book, Clemson and Bama contained him. We lose that game with Ian Book. Riley Leonard made up for the advantage the Georgia secondary had. They sold out to stop the run but still couldn’t contain him. We finally have an elite QB, albeit as a runner.
A 15 yard gain is a 15 yard gain, whether it's a pass or a QB run.
Leonard is a lot like Tony Rice in my humble opinion. He has leadership, and run the ball and is a threat to do that at any time, and both had, have, limits on their throwing ability. And remember, Tony Rice was the Irish QB in 1988, the last time they won the Natty! A repeat will feel just fine!
He also played defenses as good as if not better than UGA week in and week out, and they were predominantly an option team.
But his main asset was running the ball and the team. I can agree to a point though. I'd like to see the Irish break out the old option play.
I believe Leonard will be an excellent WR or TE in the NFL. Or maybe even an RB.
I would take 5th year Reily in a heartbeat. But I doubt it happens.
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He was a 48.5% passer with 11 TDs and 20 Ints in his career
He had a stronger arm and better deep ball no doubt (he also had Rocket) but he wasn't a more accurate passer or a better thrower than RL
Again, it was a different game back then, They were primarily an option team, and they played a brutal schedule compared to what ND plays today.
Definitely is but nothing he did can you say he was a better passer or more accurate. They did play 6 teams that were unranked in 1989 and he had 2 tds and 9 ints that year. Not every game was difficult and the ones that weren't ranked he didn't show much in the pass game
I dont want to disparage Tony Rice. He's an absolute legend and ND great. I dont even like this debate
It's not an apology I needed, but thanks. No harm done. I just wanted to you to see that it's these kind of posts that make it very difficult for anyone to take you seriously. It would appear you have a tendency to react instead of respond. If I may make a suggestion... read more, post less.
Tony Rice is arguably the best QB within the system Lou Holtz ran that I have ever watched play at Notre Dame. He was that good.
Fast. Football fast. And ran the option to near perfection.
And played against the toughest schedules I have ever or will ever see at Notre Dame.
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