Recruiting is Phenominal
- Thread starter Terry Jillery
- Start date
ND couldn’t get a top WR if there were 500 guys available
Trumps tariff on aluminum is going make the price of your hats a bit steeper.
100% agree. Playing beat up and Beating the SEC champ, Big10 runner up, haven’t had this class of athletes in a long time.
We used to have a top 1-5 class early in the cycle at ND too .. lets see if Bowden can actually finish at USC though.
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Wrong way to look at it. The quality of talent on the 85 man roster and the results the football team produces are distinct things.
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Yeah, it's just ridiculous to put any kind of emphasis on a recruiting class this early. OSU, Georgis and especially Alabama are notorious slow starters but always end up with classes in the top 3 or 4 when the class is done. You can bet those 3 schools are in on a ton of 4 and 5 star recruits - this early - and are in the process of "weeding out" the ones they're not super high on
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Somewhat true. But luckily we have ways to isolate the talent and evaluate the talent on the roster irrespective of the results using the 247 databases. NDs talent over the last several years is ranked around 10th on aggregate and they are way behind teams like Oregon, Georgia, Alabama, OSU, Texas right now whose 85 man rosters are simply in another tier entirely.
247 team talent composit
ND per players avg - 5th in the country
CFB final F+ ranking - 4th in the country
We have one of the most talented rosters in the country and it lined up almost identical to your Final F+ ranking
If we look at the last 15 years of NDs record vs the top 5 and their point differential vs the top 5 it would be so one sided as to be laughable. It also lines up with NDs talent not being competitive among the top 5 for most of the last 15 years as well and NOTHING has changed in 2025/going forward with any of these metrics.
The roster isn't good enough to compete vs the elite
The roster isn't good enough to win a national title
This is not debatable.
All of the resources back this up
The track record backs it up
And we have the benefit of hindsight.
The roster isn't good enough to compete vs the elite
The roster isn't good enough to win a national title
This is not debatable.
All of the resources back this up
The track record backs it up
And we have the benefit of hindsight.
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The last 15 years is irrelevant. What are we doing now and who Freeman is bringing in is the only relevant point. All that other stuff is just that, meaningless stuff
Its not meaningless, the numbers haven't changed in 2025/going forward in regards to the football operations/talent acquisition. They are the same in line with the last 15 years. We've seen how this story unfolds time and time again.
NDS ROSTER IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD HOW MUCH MORE EVIDENCE DOES THIS BOARD OF HOMERS NEED?
The last 15 years is irrelevant to what Freeman has or is building. Completely meaningless. Not even worth discussing because it is so irrelevant
All I know is this
247 team comp rankings
ND - 5th overall in per player ranking
F+ 2024 final rankings
ND - 4th
Beat the number 2 team in 247 team ranking by 10
When I say you have zero intellectual integrity this is exactly what im talking about. You continue to cherry pick stats to fit your argument instead of trying to learn you double down on your ignorance.
I've already explained why PER PLAYER RANK is a limited way to evaluate the talent on the roster (it is ignoring the weighted formula in the TEAM TALENT RANK). TEAM TALENT RANK provides the holistic picture where ND has been ranked around ~10th for the last several seasons (closer to 15th when you expand to the last 15 years).
ND has been completely ran over (minus 1 game in 2024 vs Georgia missing their starting QB) by the tier 1 in talent over that stretch of time as well.
How did ND respond in 2025? By bringing in the 12th ranked class in the country, and a handful of limited talent in coming transfers to keep some positions warm. And 2026 is shaping up to be one of the worst classes in the Marcus Freeman era.
THE TALENT NEEDS TO GET BETTER BECAUSE THERE ARE ABOUT 10 SCHOOLS BRINGING IN MORE TALENT THAN ND IS RIGHT NOW (GIVE OR TAKE) AND THEN THERE ARE ABOUT 5 OF THOSE 10 SCHOOLS BRINGING IN SO MUCH MORE TALENT THAN ND THAT IT WILL JUST PERPETUATE THE ONE SIDED STOMPS IN THE EVENT ND FACES THEM AGAIN IN THE PLAYOFFS.
What happened in the Kelly Weis Davie Ty Holtz era erc etc etc is meaningless to this team/talent/outcomes etc. Complete meaningless
Intellectual integrity 🤣🤣. Like how you move the goalposts with your F+ nonsense
Per player ranking is a better way to measure talent. Just because you have 3 or 4 more players on your roster to accumulate points is less important than having better higher rated players
The results and F+ showed what the talent really was. 5th in per player avg.
Just on the eye test, we are in the 5th thru 8th spot in overall roster talent. And the top due to the portal isn't nearly as good as it used to be. There used to be a huge gap between the top 2 to 3 and everyone else. Now nah it's close in the top 10 than I can ever remember
The 247 team talent composite rank uses a weighted formula (a gaussian distribution formula) specifically to deemphasize rosters who have a quantity-advantage over a quality-advantage.
The formula puts a lot of weight on the highest rated prospects on the roster and de-emphasizes the amount of weight or impact a prospect will have on the team talent ranking as you get deeper into the roster. The reason ND is ranked 9th, and ranked way behind the teams in the top 5 is because comparatively those teams have a significantly greater combination of higher quality & higher quantity of top rated prospects than ND does. And we have decades of hindsight/evidence/track record of how ND ultimately performs relative to the rest of the teams in the country with the present level of talent on their 85 man roster. Spoiler alert: it aint good enough to win a national title.
What they did against those teams in the past is irrelevant. The point disparities are irrelevant to previous staffs
Lets see what Freeman has done against tier 1 teams
At OSU - loss by 11
Clemson - won by 21
Ohio State - loss by 3
Clemson - loss by 8
Georgia - Win by 10
Ohio State - loss by 11
2 and 4 under Freeman vs Tier 1. 4 losses by an average of 8 points.
No blowout losses to tier 1 under Freeman and 2 wins. What the other coaches is irrelevant to what Freeman is currently doing, good or bad
But 2026 class is elite as F. And Carr should be far better than Underwood. Way more talent. And USC will ruin all the elite talent they are acquiring. Ohio State should continue to decline under Day. Michigan can’t win without Harbaugh. Sark can’t win big games. Franklin isn’t as good as Freeman. We don’t need top recruits bc we are elite in the portal. We also don’t need to win much now bc we made the title. Please don’t be critical. Just say positive things.
I wouldn't sleep on PSU. Not a fan of them but they have top coordinators and they recruit top 10 each year. They could be in the thick of things again.
PSU and ND are basically operating very similarly as programs right now. ND got the best of them in 2024, but it would be another 50-50 type game in any kind of 2025 playoff rematch based on the best available data up to this point.
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Pot of Gold offers out, and we get the usual blessed to be offered, etc… quotes from the targeted recruits. But this year is different in how many referenced ND playing in the NC game. We all expected a bump in recruiting from this, but it sure got the attention of many of the high profile 27 kids we’re chasing. Really need to have a great back to back season to solidify the view that ND competes for the NC.
Verbal commitments in the spring are what they are (not much). All that matters is who signs on the dotted line in the fall and winter.
I hope you are right. We need a wave of top percentile prospects choosing ND over OSU, Texas, LSU, Oregon, Alabama, Georgia, Michigan, etc. after decades of let downs on the recruiting trail, it feels impossible at this point.
Do you think recruits look at the F+ and say I’m not going there!
i know this is said in jest but if i was a highly in demand d1 recruit, and the quality of the football programs were important to me, i would definitely use a resource like F+ over the AP or Coaches Poll 😁
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Current ND (Brian Kelly - Marcus Freeman era) kind of reminds me of OU during the prime Bob Stoops era. Outside of the national title victory in Stoops 2nd season, he constantly had OU playing very good (not great) football with mostly 3 & 4 star players. They would destroy their weak big 12 schedule but never had a good enough team to finish the job/seal the deal. After 15+ seasons there, the recruiting never really saw a noticeable uptick, and despite winning 10+ games a season almost every year they never had a good enough team to be one of the best teams in the country.
That is where the ND football program is right now: very good, deep, solid, few weaknesses, good coaching. Enough talent to chew through their crap ACC schedule and their weak rivals schedule in present times. In a season where a lot of good fortune happens, they are capable of going undefeated (depending on how the schedule shakes out). But when it comes to playing the best teams in the best conferences (namely top teams in the BIG10 & SEC) ND just does not have the fire power to match up and finish the job.
That is where the ND football program is right now: very good, deep, solid, few weaknesses, good coaching. Enough talent to chew through their crap ACC schedule and their weak rivals schedule in present times. In a season where a lot of good fortune happens, they are capable of going undefeated (depending on how the schedule shakes out). But when it comes to playing the best teams in the best conferences (namely top teams in the BIG10 & SEC) ND just does not have the fire power to match up and finish the job.
Help me out here.
You're saying ND can't match up with the top teams in the BIG and SEC? What conferences do Penn State and Georgia play in?
With every post you make, it shows how little you know about football in general.
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Georgia - worst season in the last 4 years (finished back half of top 10 in F+ in 2024) beat them in a down year with a frosh QB making his first start
PSU - basically NDs equal (2nd tier in the big10) 50-50 game that could have went either way
OSU - firing on all cylinders, tier 1 talent, tier 1 in production, ran over ND, garbage time by the 3rd quarter
ND was firing on all cylinders in 2024 as well but just don't have the raw material to compete with a team like OSU that has like 15 five star players to NDs 1 five star player on their roster.
ND was the most injured team in the entire playoffs and still made the Championship. It's because we have top level talent and top level coaches.
It was wrong from the start. The Big12 was not weak during Stoops' era. When the historical high point of Baylor, cOSU, TCU, KSU, TTech? Their best or 2nd best was all early this century.
This is going to age poorly..... very poorly
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