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Recruiting IS it.

Notre Dame du Lac

Posts Like A Champion
Oct 9, 2021
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Let me start by saying I'm getting excited about recruiting. I haven't been this optimistic about recruiting since Charlie Weis was hired. MF's best chance, his only chance, is to be an elite recruiter. So what about Rees? It's not a secret I'm not a huge Tommy Rees fan. Never was. Didn't like him in 2012 when he played for us. Seeing Golson play made me hate watching TR play even more. It's not that I don't like him as a person. I don't know him. He's probably a cool guy. It's not even that I think he's a terrible OC. The issue is that he's ND's OC in a new era. This new era begins and ends with recruiting. The lack of experience means RECRUITING IS IT. To be honest, I'm kind of excited to see what MF can do with recruiting. How absurd can it get? Can we be #1?

Last year we paid $2 million to bring in the hot, new DC. We beat out LSU in a bidding war. MF is known as an elite recruiter. We made a good hire in Stuckey, maybe that will help? We just hired Al Washington, known as an elite recruiter (both excellent hires IMO). I expect us to hire a killer recruiter as DC (MF's MO), hence the slow process of not yet naming anyone. Perhaps why he didn't hire Heacock. Yet, to me, the glaring issue is still sitting there. The offense hums along at the same hum drum boring level as when BK was here. Despite what some will argue, our offensive recruiting is NOT even close to as good as our defensive recruiting. We are never in the mix for an elite 5 star quarterback (before you say Dante Moore, he's very probably going to UofM). These offensive players like putting ND in their top 5, but when it comes down to it, they go elsewhere. We are not at the top of the list for 5 star running backs or WR's, something we used to pretty well at. We might do fine at TE and OL, but not skill positions. Did TR recruit some good players the past couple years? Sure. But is it championship level? Is it up to MF level?

The D recruiting is starting to rival Ohio State. 2023 is shaping up to be tremendous defensively. What about the offense? Should the expectation be that TR needs to recruit as well as the defense? If I take a more open minded approach to Tommy Rees, understanding he's the youngest, or second youngest, OC in the country, it doesn't really make me any more tolerant of the fact that he is not an elite recruiter. MF's MO is being an elite recruiter. He is essentially staking his job on this recruiting schtick. How do I know? He's hiring young coaches that are great recruiters. He's forgoing experience, for recruiting. What is happening defensively through recruiting is really impressive. We are getting commitments from kids out of Ohio and elsewhere that traditionally never would consider ND. Not happening on offense.

Regardless of what I say, TR is it. He's going nowhere. SO, what the hell can be done to match the defense? Should we expect better? Is TR an elite recruiter to you? Is it okay that he's not? I have to believe the MF is aware that TR is a weak link in recruiting. Do we need an elite offensive recruiter on staff? Who could we hire that would be that? Could we hire a QB coach? Let TR sit in the booth and draw up plays like Weis. I foresee a future top 5 defense talent wise and a 15-25 ranked offense talent wise. Again, MFs MO is recruiting. He knows that recruiting is where he's going to build this program and secure his legacy. He's not going to out experience BK, Kirby Smart, Nick Saban, Dabo. His legacy is RECRUITING. He wants to out recruit everyone in the nation. I like that plan and it's without a doubt his best shot at being an elite coach as his lack of experience IS going to hurt him (hence the bowl game). IF he recruits as well as Ohio State, he can learn on the job and create something special. So far, I am pretty happy, impressed really, with his recruiting of the defense. It could end up being our best class in history. I like that MF isn't too big of an ego to realize he needs to recruit better than everyone if he's going to have a shot. He's not dumb enough to think he's going to beat Gundy again with x's and o's. Should MF expect more out of TR for 2023?
 
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ND doesn't need to worry about OL, QB, or TE recruiting. RBs and WRs are where we need to move the needle. Taylor had mixed results as did Alexander. Stuckey I have no idea what to expect but the buzz seems good. Ideally Freeman would steal Alford, but that ain't happening. Let's get whoever is the RB coach at PSU. He's always getting guys.
 
ND doesn't need to worry about OL, QB, or TE recruiting. RBs and WRs are where we need to move the needle. Taylor had mixed results as did Alexander. Stuckey I have no idea what to expect but the buzz seems good. Ideally Freeman would steal Alford, but that ain't happening. Let's get whoever is the RB coach at PSU. He's always getting guys.
I like TB too, but I have some doubts about him ending up an elite passer. I think we need a 5 star or two at QB. I'd like to see us land Dante Moore or another elite QB. WR and RB are a big issue. These two or three positions could plague MF's legacy and there's nobody to blame, but TR, or MF if he isn't willing to figure this issue out. TR is not going to magically become a better personality. He's going to have to go get his man. That one elite QB would change the face of the ND program. An elite QB would draw the elite WR's. It all starts at the QB position. If we landed a 5 star gunslinger, I think we could start talking about NC hopes in the MF era. The D is shaping up to be that good.
 
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ND doesn't need to worry about OL, QB, or TE recruiting. RBs and WRs are where we need to move the needle. Taylor had mixed results as did Alexander. Stuckey I have no idea what to expect but the buzz seems good. Ideally Freeman would steal Alford, but that ain't happening. Let's get whoever is the RB coach at PSU. He's always getting guys.
What????

We absolutely need to worry about QB recruiting.

It's our number 1 priority
 
I think Rees will be fine as a recruiter especially if the passing offense continues to progress where he left off during the bowl. Continue to modernize the offense

It was always going to be a brutal sell to get elite WR and QBs to sign up to run the Kelly offense of the past 5 years.
 
Agree that it was brutal to sell elite recruits on the Kelly offense. Current elite WR recruit working with Freeman and Rees commented on that, noting how important that the offense needed to be "different" from Kelly to keep his interest.
 
you got your QB, if you want him! JT Daniels in the portal is a Rees kinda guy!
 
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Recruits look at development and they look at production in the league. Right now we don’t have a qb, rb or wr that ranks in the top 50 at their position in the nfl. Abysmal production given the # of 4 stars we recruit. Reese has to prove he can develop kids it’s as simple as that. The money paid to the best qb’s is generational wealth and every kid wants the best development possible to position themselves for that pay day. As a young guy with a limited resume and never a marquee player It‘s a stretch. As for the D, we will see. It was only a few months ago that many were questioning the freeman hire as DC. D looked good against average to poor teams and just gave up 600 yds to ok st. Agreed recruiting is incredibly important but development is just as important. Ultimately recruits need to know they will get the development necessary to make the $.
 
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I like TB too, but I have some doubts about him ending up an elite passer. I think we need a 5 star or two at QB. I'd like to see us land Dante Moore or another elite QB. WR and RB are a big issue. These two or three positions could plague MF's legacy and there's nobody to blame, but TR, or MF if he isn't willing to figure this issue out. TR is not going to magically become a better personality. He's going to have to go get his man. That one elite QB would change the face of the ND program. An elite QB would draw the elite WR's. It all starts at the QB position. If we landed a 5 star gunslinger, I think we could start talking about NC hopes in the MF era. The D is shaping up to be that good.
My question is why does the 5 star come here until Reese proves he can develop him into a top pick? If I’m a 5 star qb and I can get schooled by Riley or Sark or kiffen or others why would I not do that? Reese may prove to be as good as them but until then I’m rolling the dice with proven coaches
 
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My question is why does the 5 star come here until Reese proves he can develop him into a top pick? If I’m a 5 star qb and I can get schooled by Riley or Sark or kiffen or others why would I not do that? Reese may prove to be as good as them but until then I’m rolling the dice with proven coaches
Another poster on here, BullPride9, has pointed out how few 5 stars there really are to begin with. ND has gotten a number of high four star guys and they’ve turned out well. Its just so hard to make it to the NFL as it is.

Book was drafted in the 4th round. Kizer was drafted in the 2nd round. That’s ND’s starters for 5 of the last 7 years (2017 and 2021 excluded). QB’s are drafted from all levels of of schools. Its basically a lottery. Even North Dakota State has had a #2 and #3 overall pick at QB.

I hope recruits and their families are able to see how much of a crapshoot it really is.
 
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Another poster on here, BullPride9, has pointed out how few 5 stars there really are to begin with. ND has gotten a number of high four star guys and they’ve turned out well. Its just so hard to make it to the NFL as it is.

Book was drafted in the 4th round. Kizer was drafted in the 2nd round. That’s ND’s starters for 5 of the last 7 years (2017 and 2021 excluded). QB’s are drafted from all levels of of schools. Its basically a lottery. Even North Dakota State has had a #2 and #3 overall pick at QB.

I hope recruits and their families are able to see how much of a crapshoot it really is.
Not sure selling recruits on Kaiser and Book is that compelling. The topic is 5 stars and they all believe they will be 1st rd picks and will want to be groomed by the best developers. Who are all the high 4 stars that have turned out well? Not one ND qb is currently ranked in top 50 of nfl qb’s. its a tough ask for a 20 something with very limited resume to drag in an Arch Manning
 
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Well, open up the opportunity for a QB to actually lead. Under BK QB’s were meant to be robotrons doing every play as designed by BK. There was little allowance for improvisation or creativity even on plays that were destined to breakdown.
If TB is allowed to be TB then he might succeed. If he’s made into a Book clone, it will get ugly real fast.
 
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Not sure selling recruits on Kaiser and Book is that compelling. The topic is 5 stars and they all believe they will be 1st rd picks and will want to be groomed by the best developers. Who are all the high 4 stars that have turned out well? Not one ND qb is currently ranked in top 50 of nfl qb’s. its a tough ask for a 20 something with very limited resume to drag in an Arch Manning
As I said above, there really aren’t that many 5 star QBs to begin with. The QB’s in the NFL are coming from all over the ratings board/schools. If a player is good enough, I don’t think its going to matter much who the coach is. Hopefully the ND coaches can point out the statistical reality of being a 1st round pick at QB if the QB believes he needs the perfect coach to get him to the NFL.
 
Well, open up the opportunity for a QB to actually lead. Under BK QB’s were meant to be robotrons doing every play as designed by BK. There was little allowance for improvisation or creativity even on plays that were destined to breakdown.
If TB is allowed to be TB then he might succeed. If he’s made into a Book clone, it will get ugly real fast.
Whatever you say Purse.
 
As I said above, there really aren’t that many 5 star QBs to begin with. The QB’s in the NFL are coming from all over the ratings board/schools. If a player is good enough, I don’t think its going to matter much who the coach is. Hopefully the ND coaches can point out the statistical reality of being a 1st round pick at QB if the QB believes he needs the perfect coach to get him to the NFL.
you don’t think it matters much who the coach is??? I believe you’re in a rather small minority. And you never answered my question
 
you don’t think it matters much who the coach is??? I believe you’re in a rather small minority. And you never answered my question
I knew that comment was going to be seized on. I said “much” as in how much difference can a coach truly make, provided he doesn’t totally suck? Do you think I’m saying that a funeral director can come in and coach a QB to the first round? No. I’m saying what is truly the difference between a QB coach at Penn State vs Texas Tech vs Alabama? Do you think Patrick Mahomes got such amazing coaching, or that he was naturally gifted and was probably going to develop into a 1st rounder regardless of where he went?

To answer your question. Kizer and Book were both four stars I believe. 2nd and 4th round picks. Starters for 5 of the last 7 years and the 2017 starter was replaced by Book in 2018. That’s pretty good I’d say.
 
It's recruiting AND coaching. Has everyone forgotten how bad Ron Zook was at Florida despite having the very best athletes in the country? Meyer won a championship with guys recruited by Zook.

THIS is exactly right. I’ve said it from the start. Development is waaaaaaaay more important. I’m not convinced this staff has any idea how to develop talent.
 
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It's recruiting AND coaching. Has everyone forgotten how bad Ron Zook was at Florida despite having the very best athletes in the country? Meyer won a championship with guys recruited by Zook.
I think it was Kuharich who recruited a team good enough to win a national title and went 5-5?
 
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