Projected Winner:

[ch_seahawkfan]

"I continue to believe that Golson can be one of the best quarterbacks in the country if he solves his ball-security issues. Maybe that's foolish. Maybe that train has come and gone. But the kid just spins the ball so beautifully.

Zaire doesn't lack confidence and he played well in the Music City Bowl win over LSU, accounting for nearly 200 total yards and two touchdowns. Can he translate that into a strong enough spring performance to exit as the No. 1 guy? He wasn't able to do it last year.

Projected Winner: Everett Golson "






BR

 

[Irishjohn68]

I don't understand why the ball security issues last all season. Shouldn't that have been resolved early on? When you run around trying to make plays like Golson does and yet you hold the ball like it is a loaf of bread then you are just asking for trouble. I guess that is coaching.

 

[bizzybecknd]

If it was coaching, wouldn't we have seen it the previous 18 games he played in? Think it was a confidence issue. I too am hoping he wins the job but whoever gives the team the best chance to win games. Think ND will use a two QB system for much of the year until BK finds the comfort level with one of them; best guess that will be EG because of experience and arm.

 

[cgvr]

I still can't believe the play where Golson tried to use the ball as a "crutch" to keep him from falling....

That was among the worst fumbles of his that I've seen....

PS The good news is I can't remember the game he did it in....

 

[Yooper Irishfan]

Originally posted by cgvr:
I still can't believe the play where Golson tried to use the ball as a "crutch" to keep him from falling....

That was among the worst fumbles of his that I've seen....

PS The good news is I can't remember the game he did it in....

Arizona State. You're lucky if you forgot all about that game.

 

[Epictitus]

There were no "security issues" early on. The issues started Mid-season and it got into his head. That coupled with the suspensions and injuries led to the confluence of a perfect storm for the Irish.

The five looses actually has a lot of people doubting how good NC will be in 2015, but with 20 returning starters they will have one of the top three talented teams in America and will be favored against every team as the year progresses.

Good days ahead for the Irish and I personally think EG will start and have a great year although I also think MZ will see the field often.

 

[john0gaunt]

I think the most important decision to be made regarding this team is if EG comes back or does he take his talent elsewhere for his 5th year. The offense of this team with EG and MZ splitting time versus only MZ learning on the job will make a huge difference in what this team looks like.

As for playing time, Kelly will play whoever gives him the best chance to win, but I think he will want MZ in as much as possible as that better prepares MZ for 2017.

Almost wonder is Kelly will declare EG the starter just to make sure he has him on the team come september.


Go Irish!

 

[ndhell]

Golson is a wonderful young man and does not have ball security problems. Yall are just negative no talent haters.

 

[perseverare]

EG should get TR's role (he is 1 and done); play MZ and see what he is. New QB's every year is not the best plan. If MZ is the guy, he is there in 15,16; if he can fend off the younger guys!

 

[perseverare]

IJ:

early on Kelly alluded to EG and ball security as a reason TR was still on the field. So, the concern preceeded his starting role.

 

[Toby Smart]

I distinctly remember BK talking about EG's ball handling problems during a post game presser. He made it clear that the staff was very aware of the problem and work on it during every practice. Namely, holding the ball with one hand. It was apparent that EG was not coachable and was not going to listen to his coaches. I put those turnovers squarely on EG. He refused to listen if we are to believe BK. How that all translates to Chris Brown and Cam McDaniel is anybody's guess.

 

[ch_seahawkfan]

EG/MZ


Two QB system is where this is going. No set starter. QB for the situation

 

[Johnnie82]

Re: EG/MZ

I still think Kelly is part of the issue. I looked at the sideline demeanor of Golson and Kelly at the beginning of the season. Kelly was not screaming and going purple in the face. Golson was engaged with Kelly and they seemed to have two-way communication. Then the first turnovers started. Kelly reverted to his old self, Golson's head dropped. He seemed to avoid eye contact with Kelly. His shoulders and his head were no longer up and his body language changed.

Some people take a different kind of approach when you are correcting them. Last season It appeared that Golson's confidence was shattered after about game 6.

 

[ch_seahawkfan]

Re: EG/MZ

Originally posted by Johnnie82:
I still think Kelly is part of the issue. I looked at the sideline demeanor of Golson and Kelly at the beginning of the season. Kelly was not screaming and going purple in the face. Golson was engaged with Kelly and they seemed to have two-way communication. Then the first turnovers started. Kelly reverted to his old self, Golson's head dropped. He seemed to avoid eye contact with Kelly. His shoulders and his head were no longer up and his body language changed.

Some people take a different kind of approach when you are correcting them. Last season It appeared that Golson's confidence was shattered after about game 6.

 

[TurnoverMachine]

No guarantee EG is even coming back in 2015.

 

[HDK]

Re: EG/MZ

Originally posted by Johnnie82:
I still think Kelly is part of the issue. I looked at the sideline demeanor of Golson and Kelly at the beginning of the season. Kelly was not screaming and going purple in the face. Golson was engaged with Kelly and they seemed to have two-way communication. Then the first turnovers started. Kelly reverted to his old self, Golson's head dropped. He seemed to avoid eye contact with Kelly. His shoulders and his head were no longer up and his body language changed.

Some people take a different kind of approach when you are correcting them. Last season It appeared that Golson's confidence was shattered after about game 6.

I think there was clearly a problem between Golson and Kelly no matter what they or anyone else says. To deny that is to deny the obvious.

But I also think Golson was reckless with the ball from day one this year. He just got away with it, much as he got away with it in the bowl game. I remember two plays, one when he tossed off his back foot and it fell incomplete and another where Fuller, I think, came back and caught a wounded duck for a big first down. Both were terrible, terrible throws. And I definitely remember a few that were thrown up for grabs early in the season. He was just lucky to have bigger, more athletic receivers than the defensive backs covering them

I really think Zaire is a much better overall quarterback. His ability to run won the bowl game, and he seems to have as good an arm as Golson.

I believe, though, that if Zaire is named the starter, Golson will transfer, and possibly the same with Zaire if Golson gets the nod.

 

[ch_seahawkfan]

Re: EG/MZ


they are both going to stay,,,, will buy into the two qb system,,,, HCBK will play the guy best suited to win and that will evolve as the season goes into a dynamic both will thrive on.... MZ gets to play and win and EG has a ton less pressure. Wins pile up,,,,Irish in the FOUR. Projected Winner: ND

neither player is a starting NFL QB but both could get pro jobs as back ups and one day get their shot so they will not miss out on leading this great team. GO IRISH !

 

[patH72]

>I still can't believe the play where Golson tried to use the ball as a "crutch" to keep him from falling....
>That was among the worst fumbles of his that I've seen....
>PS The good news is I can't remember the game he did it in....


Well, maybe you should review the play as you evidently think this was simply a bonehead play by Golson.

On this play, the Irish had both a tight end and a back who were supposed to pass block. Golson and everyone else assumed that he would have a bit of time to find a receiver. However, both of these players whiffed on their blocks, and rushers came in virtually unimpeded to the QB. With a very athletic move Golson eluded those rushers, but in trying to get away he was tripped up, and as you say he tried to stay upright by balancing with the hand holding the ball, and he dropped it. That wasn't good, but it was quite understandable given the way the play unfolded.

It's interesting how shocked you are that Golson dropped the ball but appear unfazed by the fact that two of our starting offensive players completely failed to carry out their assignments on the play. They are certainly as responsible for the turnover as the QB was.

This post was edited on 3/4 3:54 AM by patH72

 

[perseverare]

^
can you explain his effort or lack of it in the USC game? IMO that was the worst 'fumble'.

 

[Java65]

It's amazing how Golson has become the latest whipping boy for the offensive failures. First victim was Dayne Crist. Message boards were filled with howls to make TR the starter because Crist was a head case

The next casualty was Tommy Rees, or more often referred to as "Tommy Turnover ". Again cries to play Crist or Hendrix or Golson rang out on message boards.

The next lamb to be lead to the slaughter was Golson. Now he has issues too and Zaire is the next great thing.

Sorry folks, each and every QB played as they were coached.

This post was edited on 3/4 7:55 AM by Java65

 

[perseverare]

Java

EG is not a whipping boy for....

We have past games from which we can discuss and evaluate his performances. Aside from the physical aspects of his performance, my bigger concern is, as mentioned in another post, his mental approach to the position.
The USC game was the low point. But he has appeared to check out during games, to appear somewhat disconnected from his HC and at times seems to display a level of immaturity; these are not the traits of a 'leader'; this is not Joe Kapp or Bobby Layne or Billy Kilmer!

So year 5 will be different from years 3-4? We will see.

 

[ch_seahawkfan]

agree that EG displayed immature under pressure from HCBK,,, bad form from both... Can he grow up this season and accept his role, probably as the relief or change up QB? Sure ! A year in the life of a 20 something year old is immense. He has the skills... now

 

[IowaIrish1]

Who looked better during the spring game last year? If I remember correctly there was some rumbling for MZ back then. I don't see how Golson keeps the job if it is truly an open competition. MZ seems to be the more confident QB who can bring a whole new dimension to the offense.

 

[Kelso86]

"Golson is a wonderful young man and does not have ball security problems, Y'all are just negative no talent haters"

Yes, he is a wonderful young man -- but tell me, who was that QB was tossing INT's and fumbling all of last season?

 

[IrishBlooded]

It
Is
Bleacher
Report


In reality none of us will know until Kelly tells us who the starter will be. Anyone that picks either Ziare or Golson, has a 50/50 chance of being right. Picking the correct one this early doesn't make you smart. It means you picked heads instead of tails.

 

[Java65]

Sorry Perse I completely disagree. EG is doing exactly what his predecessors did. Kelly (the OC) answer to offensive problems was to make the offense utterly reliant on the QB and extremely complicated, so much so that it would take Peyton Manning to run the offense effectively.

Crist, Rees and Golson's play was directly related to the fact they were overwhelmed by the complexity of the system.

Again, if it was just EG's performance last year you can blame the QB, but 3 QB's in 5 years?!?!?!

 

[theskibro]

One of EG's biggest suppporters, I was.

I do not know what to make to of the guy.

If you look at the FSU game tape you will see something telling:

ND is undefeated and Golson's turnovers have not become much of an issue at this point in the season. Yet, he has countless passes knocked down, misses open receivers and his play was average.

Very disappointed in EG

I do believe much of his failings are due to one thing: Lafleur and Kelly insisting he stay in the pocket

It messed with his head and took away his natural game
His passes were blocked, his receivers not found cause he likes to roll out and that was not encouraged
Golson was never the same and lost confidence

I blame the staff and Golson equally

They did him a disservice and messed up

His ability to come back is based on whether they let him play his game or not

 

[bizzybecknd]

No question EG had ball security issues but his throwing ability kept ND in games and gave ND a chance to win all games besides the ASU game (I will concede this one was on him, although he did bring back ND to within 3 with 5 min left and the D couldn't make stand and Corey couldn't make a catch).

He did enough to beat FSU
Scoring 40 on NW should be enough, anytime your D gives up 43, you shouldn't expect to win. (see Brown/McDaniel also)
28 against Louisville should also be enough imo, missed field goal cost ND as time expired.

Really ASU was the only game where EG cost ND the game.. USC the whole team was god awful besides MZ.

He was in his second year of competition at the college level and will hopefully improve immensely. Lets not forget he did start his career 18-0- yes much of that was to do with a great D but he also played a significant role in several victories, most notably PITT and OU.

Lets not count the guy out just yet and move on to the next best thing that has 6 quarters of experience. MZ will go through serious growing pains in his first season at the helm, has there been a QB ever who hasn't?

 

[ch_seahawkfan]

HCBK "took away his natural game... His passes were blocked, his receivers not found cause he likes to roll out and that was not encouraged
Golson was never the same and lost confidence "

like you, I have said this over and over theskibro. I expect MZ to start more games next season and when EG is in, it should be to make plays how ever he see's them develop with free rein to improvise.

 

[perseverare]

have you considered the possibility that EG is simply an athlete with a strong arm as contrasted by being a QB with a strong arm who is an athlete.
From observations the 1st idea is more likely the case.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Java,

That is exactly what happened.

Good observation.

 

[rgc7]

Re: EG/MZ

HDK,,
I Think you nailed it. Zaire gives the team the added dimension of running the ball , and he runs it with power. Golson is not nearly as good of a runner , and Golson scrambles around and even runs the wrong way while he is scrambling around thus getting sacked for big loses. When he does fumble, his fumbles are also well behind the LOS.
I think after the NC game, other teams caught on to Golson and killed him with blitzes, he lost his composure and he went from a top QB to the toilet.
Golson may be the better passer , but Zaire looked very accurate , and was able to neutralize the blitzes by his running ability. When Golson was first recruited , I thought that he was a running QB, but once he saw the field, I was disappointed with his running abilities.
I think that Zaire is ND,s best QB ?

 

[Toby Smart]

Originally posted by IowaIrish1:
Who looked better during the spring game last year? If I remember correctly there was some rumbling for MZ back then. I don't see how Golson keeps the job if it is truly an open competition. MZ seems to be the more confident QB who can bring a whole new dimension to the offense.

MZ looked better in the first half . They both looked not good in the second half. The 2014 Spring Game needs to not be used as an argument for or against EG.

 

[ch_seahawkfan]

rgc7, MZ has a very quick release because he has a confident mind for the game and he has the power to back up his mojo. EG has proven frail of spirit I hate to say. He is a potentially great QB, not just an athlete but he has to grow into that potential.

 

[perseverare]

ch_

I suggest you shift focus to Wim and Kizer. JMO, but you will grow long in the tooth waiting on EG's potential; not a natural QB.

 

[Java65]

Perse, I usually agree with you but you are completely wrong on this topic. EG proved he was a very good QB the first 3 games of the year, after spending a year Whitfield. The more time he spent under Kelly the worse and worse he got. He became exactly what Crist, Rees and Hendrix did; overwhelmed, confused, frustrated and eventually lost.


Get to the line and check the defense. Look over to the sideline to get the play. Call the play. Make sure everyone is lined up correctly. Scan the defense again. Account for the S. Where is the pressure coming from. Change protection. Look back at the sideline to see (possible) new call. Call new play. Damn, only 5 sec on clock. Is everybody lined up correctly. Did the S move. Where is the pressure coming from now. Now I need to adjust protection again. Shit, now the CB are pressing. Only 3 sec left on clock. Just snap the damn ball.


Sorry Perse but EVERY QB has failed under this model and every one will continue to fail under this model. It has nothing to do with the QB's talent, smarts or fortitude. Zaire hasn't had to face this yet. Unless this scheme changes drastically the QB at ND will fail, regardless of his name.

This post was edited on 3/5 10:42 AM by Java65

 

[perseverare]

Kelly may not have been a positive factor in EG's development or lack of; but my opinion is that EG is not a natural QB, considering the entirety of the position requirements. I have felt this way before the '12 season. Usually I had caveated that with let's see him on the field.
Well nothing has transpired to convince me otherwise. Instead it has been more that that opinion was closer to correct.

JMO. I recognize there are fans that think he is a great prospect. We don't share the same opinion.
As to Kelly as a factor; I do not think any of the QB's he has had to work with were really top QB prospects; Dayne, God Bless him, had something missing to negate the physical talents possessed. The game plans and utilization of the QB's sucked, but still the players were less than top QB's nevertheless.
'15 will be a revelation: good or bad.




This post was edited on 3/5 10:43 AM by perseverare

 

[Java65]

Crist is another perfect example. Go watch the 2010 UM game again. Crist was absolutely destroying UM, they had no answer at all for him. Same as EG, the more time Crist spent under the tutelage of Kelly (and more removed from Weis) the worse he got. BK broke him mentally just as he did Golson.

5 years and the argument is ND can't find even one average QB? Not Crist, Not Hendrix, Not Massa, Not Rees, Not Golson. Exactly how many failed QBs do we need before we can begin to entertain the idea that maybe, just maybe, it's not that long list of students but the single person responsible for teaching them?

Like I've said, I think BK the HC is a very, very good HC. BK the OC/QB coach is dreadful and has cost the HC games. My hope is the HC realized this and Sanford was brought in to be the true OC/QB coach.

 

[perseverare]

Java

i am not disagreeing with your idea; however that does not change or affect my opin on EG.

 

[tkirish]

Competition is the cure, plain and simple. If anything Zaire proved he can perform in a real game not just in practice. Golson, will have to really play well to get the starting nod again. This is about who gives the team the best chance to win. It will be an interesting spring. Hopefully whoever ends up 2nd, stays with the team. Why? Mainly because you are only one play away from being the starter. As far as I can see, both Golson and Zaire can run this offense very well. That is a commodity the Irish haven't had in some time. Kelly will have to really keep his players focused on the big picture.