Poor DC/OC Hires
- Thread starter NotreDame du Lac
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Extensive highlights from both Wake Forest and Memphis? Color me impressed.
I guess if that's what you want to draw from it, I'm going to have a hard time arguing with you. All I can do is look at the Wake film of what Elko does, and try to predict how he will use ND's personnel, based on what he did in Winston Salem. My initial thoughts are that ND does have the right personnel to run his system, however, I have some serious concerns about depth along the DL, at Rover and safety... I still think ND will be improved from last year. I'm predicting around #30, but I wouldn't be shocked to see between #25 on the upper end, and #40 on the lower end. For the recoed, I do think ND's offense is going to look a lot more similar to what we saw Brian Kelly run in 2012, only with more read option involved in the run game. I think that helps the defense because it will feature more time consuming drives and places more of an emphasis on factors such as field position, which tend to lend a hand towards keeping the score down, giving the opponents long fields and less possessions.
Maybe I end up beine wrong, but that's how I see it.
IIO.
.....". The more ability ND had (through recruiting) the more that defense improved.......
Was that comment toward coach Diaco, or ND in general?
.....". The more ability ND had (through recruiting) the more that defense improved.......
Was that comment toward coach Diaco, or ND in general?
Diaco certainly benefited from great recruiting (Te'o, Tuitt, Nix, Russell, Day) but also did a good job in development (Shembo, Lewis-Moore, Fox, Spond, Motta, Schwenke, etc, etc).
It's a 3 step process... Recruit them. Retain them. Develop them.
Sure he did, another couple of more seasons before going elsewhere could of maybe landef an NFL spot as some position coach. LBer maybe, but you can't blame him for taking the UConn job though
I am confused. You wrote a "dissertation" on thing you don't know about Wake's D under Elko and now you are evaluating film. Where are you getting the film and what games are you looking at?
There are full games of Wake Forest on the Internet. I think I'be watched about 9 of them in total thus far (defensive possessions only). All of them are from the Elko Era and I'm watching them for scheme, blitz scheme, coverage and how he uses his personnel and how I think that may translate with ND's personnel. It's really not that difficult.
Does anything stand out to you? What was the best play you have seen?
What makes him different? Thanks
The questions are: will Elko be an improvement to the Irish coaching staff? How much will he have an effect on this team? not which is the best play. Will his impact on the D make the Irish a top 25-40 or 50 defense. Will Kelly help screw it up
From what I've seen, it's not that he disguises blitzes better, it's that he times them better. Timing has two components. First is on the coach knowing when to dial them up va when to drop into coverage. The more important component of timing is on the players, however. Somw players have a knack for being able to time the cadence and blitz at the appropriate time, but that's instinctual. For those kids not blessed with that natural instinct, coaches can help them out by really teaching them to read pre-snap keys (in film study) that will help them time their blitzes. Those little fine points can be taught easier and focused on when you're not spending your entire week trying to install an NFL scheme that you will change the following week. What I like about Elko is that he doesn't do a lot of exotic things. It's obvious that he focuses on fundamentals and the finer points of COLLEGE defense.
Secondly, there are really two schools of thought when blitzing, on how to play coverage behind it. BVG believed in the high risk method that relies on pass rushers and blitzes getting home quickly, because he was going to play man and press man on the backend of the defense, attempt to take away all the QB's short throws and disrupt their timing while leaving only the low percentage over the top throws (that are rushed) available to the QB. That is a very NFL style of blitizing, where teams still use a lot of 3 and 5 step drops and long, developing route concepts... Not only does the ball come out quickly in modern college spread offenses, but VanGorder lacked quick twitch, speedy pass rushers and true man corners to execute his scheme. You've heard me talk about the defense being "sound" and the coordinator being "responsible". So much of that involves knowing your personnel, their strengths and weaknesses and not forcing them into a scheme they don't have the physical ability to execute, nor the time in week (or even a season) to grasp.
Elko's style of blitzing is much more responsible on the college level because it accounts for the ball coming out quickly. It also happens to match up with ND's personnell much better. Elko likes to bring pressure, especially on third down, but he plays a lot of off man, cover 3 and cover 4 on the backend, leaving the underneath throws available for the QB if the pressure doesn't get home, but not allowing the easy over the top throws as ND's cornera get ran by. In some senses, it's a little Diaco like. Different personnell, and more pressures, but similar in that it all begins with stopping the run and then playing top down coverage, forcing teams to beat you with long, methotical, drives and trying to hot home with some well timed blitzes and coverage sacks.
You can be aggressive and physical without being irresponsible.
Cool. When does he like to go man to man and jam receivers? Is the secondary physical? Just trying to gather info on what you are seeing...
PS I am all for sound simplification. There is no reason for incoming FR to be sidelined due to the "alleged" sophistication of scheme. The X years to understand BVG was a disaster from the outset as it compromised the roster.... It's hard to believe that we bought into that level of crazy especially when the '12 blueprint was available...
^ well:
the best plan is only as good as the personel executiing the plan.
and
even the best personel need a good plan
the best plan is only as good as the personel executiing the plan.
and
even the best personel need a good plan
Good questions.
Very seldomly does it appear that he'll press to the field. When he wantz to go man he'll occasionally press the boundary receiver, with a safety over top on the hash, a safety in centerfield and his field corner playing off man. Whether he attacks with 6 or even 7 depends on what's in the slot for the rover to cover. It's evident that at times he'll have a trigger on the rover where if the offensive formation involves "12" personnel and both TE's are in the box, the rover fires automatically if nwither TE releases. Essebtially an edge run blitz, playing run to thw quarterback, or up field contain.
As for the physiciality of the defense, they do a nice job of fighting through blocks in the screen game and on lateral passes, but so much of bring a willing and able tackler as a DB is in the type of kids you recruit. He definitely likes good sized DB's.
Thanks for the professionalism. Compare this to that self described Florida Towel Boy wannabe coach!
I really like corners that can get physical at the line early in the game and set the tone (Lester Hayes). I asked Leroy Irvin what life as an NFL corner was like. He thought for a minute and said, "Life as an NFL corner...hmmm...well one day we were playing the Falcons and they had a T&F wide receiver. I was jamming him all day and had him shut down. In the 4th quarter I went to the line shaking my shoulder pads, acting cocky and they snapped the ball. He flew by me for a 60? 70? yard TD. I chased him into the end zone and turned away. As I was walking away he yelled, "He Leroy!" I turned around and he was smiling at me. "One play ruin your day..." that's life as an NFL corner."
I think that position is best served knowing that you can't stop every big play, but you can certainly let them know early that you are there....
Is he also using the safety in the blitz package?
CGVR and IIO...thanks for this exchange. I think it would be difficult to find a DC that would do a worse job than BVG, and so there is reason for cautious optimism on that alone. The fact that Elko is widely viewed as a very good up and coming coordinator who achieved much better results than ND with inferior personnel, particularly in areas like sacks and TFL and positive take always, and it is easy to get borderline excited. Your exchanges move the discussion beyond the stats and hype, and these are helpful in trying to project his schemes onto our personnel. At a minimum, a much better fit than BVG's schemes, without even considering the weekly do over required by BVG's pro orientation.
I really like corners that can get physical at the line early in the game and set the tone (Lester Hayes). I asked Leroy Irvin what life as an NFL corner was like. He thought for a minute and said, "Life as an NFL corner...hmmm...well one day we were playing the Falcons and they had a T&F wide receiver. I was jamming him all day and had him shut down. In the 4th quarter I went to the line shaking my shoulder pads, acting cocky and they snapped the ball. He flew by me for a 60? 70? yard TD. I chased him into the end zone and turned away. As I was walking away he yelled, "He Leroy!" I turned around and he was smiling at me. "One play ruin your day..." that's life as an NFL corner."
I think that position is best served knowing that you can't stop every big play, but you can certainly let them know early that you are there....
Is he also using the safety in the blitz package?
Both safeties are essentially interchangeable and both come, as well as the rover. Sometimes they rotate post snap and the Rover drops out and one of the safeties comes up the middle or off the opposite edge. I really enjoy what he does with his interior blitzes. I think Morgan, Tranquill and Bilal could have a field day inside. He likes to play the flush / contain game. Slant your DL and move the launch point, fire a backer (or two) through the moving bodies, with the weak side end taking an outside path into the quarterback flushing his way as the pocket is destroyed from the middle, and the Rover or a safety with backside contain in case the QB spins out opposite the flow of the play.
Thank you for all this work.
How "shifty" is the d line?
I also like a lot of fake LB stunting thrown in to keep the O guessing.
Do you see that at all?
PS everything sounds a heck of a lot better than what we have. I am hoping that he and Lyght hit it off big.
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