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Poor DC/OC Hires

NotreDame du Lac

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Jan 29, 2015
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How are either of these guys an upgrade? I have watched extensive highlights of both Wake Forest and Memphis. I see poor tackling and pass happy coached teams. This is exactly what we have currently. This fits exactly into BK's method. I did not expect BK to change. Most ego maniacs don't. I do expect another year of the same. Jack is simply delaying the inevitable. Where are the Jack and Brian memes?
 
Kelly is waving the white flag. For the fan base his departure will be the best thing for the program. What top coordinators would come here with coaching seat this hot? Kelly did this to himself.

Getting quality assistants use to be coach Kelly's best attribute,.
These two coaches could be the diamonds in the rough, and the biggest surprises of 2017
 
Getting quality assistants use to be coach Kelly's best attribute,.
These two coaches could be the diamonds in the rough, and the biggest surprises of 2017
I hope they will be. After everything I've read and seen about these two coaches they are still big question marks heading into the season. Hope we improve on both sides of the ball.
 
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In what world is Mike Elko a bad hire? You can make an argument that the Long hire seems like a little bit of a reach, but you have to consider two really important factors...

Brian Kelly is, and will be (until he's no longer the HC) the offensive coordinator at ND. That means he was looking for someone to collaborate with, who shared his offensive vision and could contribute to the game plane, without installing a brand new offense. I think Kelly really admires Mike Norvell and his scheme and the way he did things when ND last played ASU. Norvell is the HC at Memphis and isn't leaving there to be the OC at ND so Kelly did the next best thing and hired the star pupil of the guy he admires, who also happens to share an offensive philosophy with Kelly... Furthermore, one of the the most talent rich positions on ND's team moving forward is the tight end position. Durham Smythe, Alize Jones, Tyler Luatua, Nick Weishar, Brock Wright and Cole Kmet give you a bevy of players with different skill sets and if coached well, give you the must have option of playing two at once, which in turns should help your rushing attack. Long has coached tight ends his entire career. It's what he does. His first task will be putting the "TE" back in "TE U". Furthermore, you just landed a guy who is a top notch recruiter, which is paramount with the loss of Sanford, Booker and Denbrock. ND still needs another top end recruiter, hopefully one who will replace the guy that I believe to be the nation's best WR Coach (Mike Denbrock)... So if nothing else, Long is an ideal fit, even if you may think he's a questionable hire.

Back to Elko... Who else was ND going to get that can coach and recruit worth a lick? Everyone wants a young, up-and-coming guy, who will work to be a solid recruiter, who has a history of coordinating quality defenses, who can taker lesser talented players and get the most out of them, who will give ND the much needed help they need at the development of the safety position, who runs a learnable, aggressive, college defense... Which one of those boxes does Elko not check (on paper at least)?

I think a lot of people have an obsession with those who have done it before. Guys who have long track records of success. But a lot of people forget that before a guy is a 50 year old coach with 25 years of experience and a bevy of awards and accolades to his name, he was the same quality coach, only younger and in the beginning of that successful career. Some guys are great. Some are busts.

We'll see.
 
He obviously never watched either WF or Memphis play this year. Memphis ran a high powered offense like ND only faster and WF played some darn good defense without much offensive help. When you combine the two it could become magic next season. We'll just have to wait and see.
 
He obviously never watched either WF or Memphis play this year. Memphis ran a high powered offense like ND only faster and WF played some darn good defense without much offensive help. When you combine the two it could become magic next season. We'll just have to wait and see.
So nothing changes on the offense, and still pressure on a defense that in 7 season had one good yr?
There is just as good a chance that when you combine the two could be a disaster.
we'll have to wait and see though I hope your right
 
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He obviously never watched either WF or Memphis play this year. Memphis ran a high powered offense like ND only faster and WF played some darn good defense without much offensive help. When you combine the two it could become magic next season. We'll just have to wait and see.
You didn't watch Wake or Memphis either. Who in their right mind would?
Plus, anyone who did have the misfortune of watching them play certainly wasn't eyeballing Long or Elko as potential staff hires. So, quit with the b.s..
 
He obviously never watched either WF or Memphis play this year. Memphis ran a high powered offense like ND only faster and WF played some darn good defense without much offensive help. When you combine the two it could become magic next season. We'll just have to wait and see.
good bye rb's, high powered offense? who the hell were you watching? Magical? head to the crack house in DisneyLand
 
Dip...don't apologize. None of us knows the impact Elko and Long will have on team performance, and projecting that each will do well is just as legitimate as those saying their lightweights with little to no chance at improving the ND product. Nothing is assured, but these guys are at that point in their careers where their experience and performance as coordinators at ND will either catapult them into the upper echelon of their profession, or relegate them to middling journey level for the foreseeable future. Given Kelly's status, I think the Elko hire is exceptional, and the Long hire reasonable. A hell of a lot goes into weekly OC duties well beyond play calling, and none of us knows how well Long performed these duties at Memphis. In the interim, I just hope like hell that each is able to add one quality recruit to this class in a position of need, and help keep our current commits up through signing day.
 
So nothing changes on the offense, and still pressure on a defense that in 7 season had one good yr?
There is just as good a chance that when you combine the two could be a disaster.
we'll have to wait and see though I hope your right

No, I actually listen to SportsBeat who had an interview with the broadcaster who does the games for Memphis. He said that Memphis had a very weak offensive line last year (very true) that couldn't open holes, so they went to a quick strike pass offense (39 pts). I expect nothing and wait to see the finished product. You remember the last thing you saw the clearest, so I have my doubts right now. I do hope for the lads sake that we see a well coached team next year, that's ready to win games.

The hiring and firing of coaches is well above my pay grade. BUT, would I have hired Dan Devine after Green Bay, Jerry Faust, or Bob Davie? Heck no! I would have listen to Coach Parseghian and hired Tom Pagna and my next hire would have been Lou Holtz on down the line. Would I have fired Willingham after year three; Weis after 3-9, and Kelly after 4-8? Heck yes-the next morning without regret! I would hire Les Miles (77% plus a national championship) in a heartbeat and ride that old warhorse for the next three to five years before putting him out to pasture. If the cards play out as I expect; I would go and bring Mike Sanford home to South Bend and retire after a couple of years a happy Athletic Director.
 
No, I actually listen to SportsBeat who had an interview with the broadcaster who does the games for Memphis. He said that Memphis had a very weak offensive line last year (very true) that couldn't open holes, so they went to a quick strike pass offense (39 pts). I expect nothing and wait to see the finished product. You remember the last thing you saw the clearest, so I have my doubts right now. I do hope for the lads sake that we see a well coached team next year, that's ready to win games.

The hiring and firing of coaches is well above my pay grade. BUT, would I have hired Dan Devine after Green Bay, Jerry Faust, or Bob Davie? Heck no! I would have listen to Coach Parseghian and hired Tom Pagna and my next hire would have been Lou Holtz on down the line. Would I have fired Willingham after year three; Weis after 3-9, and Kelly after 4-8? Heck yes-the next morning without regret! I would hire Les Miles (77% plus a national championship) in a heartbeat and ride that old warhorse for the next three to five years before putting him out to pasture. If the cards play out as I expect; I would go and bring Mike Sanford home to South Bend and retire after a couple of years a happy Athletic Director.
Excellent repose brother
 
I must admit after the year ND had that there wasn't much of anything positive to take from a year like this. But if Elko can get the defense to play like Wake did against ND in 2015. Then this is a program changing hire. No team in the country did a better job defensively against that team even in the losses. Especially saying they didnt have the athletes or offense to compete. I hope Elko can transfer that same level heart, confidence, and competitivness into this team defensively. If so, ND should win the majority of their games in 2017.
 
under the circumstances, did you expect the established elite coaches to want to be part of this fiasco?
just as recruiting has dropped to plan C so has the pool of available/interested coaching candidates.

Still, a few days more?
first,Elko gets more out of less talented players than either Diaco or Van Gorder did with more. Second, at least Long knows how to adjust plans during a game. He adapts well unlike BK. So to all the negative Nellies,yes, these are great improvements. Add to the facts that Long is a very good recruiter and Elko can identify the types of players he needs for defense and these are very good hires. Plus,if they make BK look really good maybe some NFL team will snatch him up in 18' and ND will rid itself of him and his arrogance. Look at the positives.
 
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:eek::eek::eek:^ you know nothing of anyone of these hires...give it a rest.

at this point none of us know how they will do.

yikes! some ND fans,:eek:

don't start the statues just yet!
 
first,Elko gets more out of less talented players than either Diaco or Van Gorder did with more. Second, at least Long knows how to adjust plans during a game. He adapts well unlike BK. So to all the negative Nellies,yes, these are great improvements. Add to the facts that Long is a very good recruiter and Elko can identify the types of players he needs for defense and these are very good hires. Plus,if they make BK look really good maybe some NFL team will snatch him up in 18' and ND will rid itself of him and his arrogance. Look at the positives.
This very well could be.
I like the DC hire but I don't know how much input any offensive assistant has at ND under Kelly.
I like the end of your post
 
first,Elko gets more out of less talented players than either Diaco or Van Gorder did with more. Second, at least Long knows how to adjust plans during a game. He adapts well unlike BK. So to all the negative Nellies,yes, these are great improvements. Add to the facts that Long is a very good recruiter and Elko can identify the types of players he needs for defense and these are very good hires. Plus,if they make BK look really good maybe some NFL team will snatch him up in 18' and ND will rid itself of him and his arrogance. Look at the positives.

Apparently, Western Kentucky hired the wrong guy as HC....

Please describe one of Long's adjustments that you were impressed with. I am really curious about this claim.

As for Elko he's another flyer.

kelly is grasping and neither of these hires is "big time". We hope they are, but I am expecting the excuse machine to be, as always, rampant. Know this, in 7 years we have zero positive football identity...zero...

We are a deserved cfb laughingstock....all hat... high powered offense my rear end, great D hahaha, special teams fart...burp.... our HC stinks and we are on NCAA probation with vacated wins...

It's who we are and it is disgusting that we are attaching this current program to our glorious past.
There is no resemblance. None....

The program is a pigsty....

PS How many starters did Meyer replace and make it to the playoffs?
 
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People quickly forget that Notre Dame finished #62 in the country in scoring defense at 27.8 ppg. However, despite stiffer competition after the firing of BVG, ND interim defensive staff managed to cut 2.7 ppg off the scoring defense over the final 8 games. Excluding the the games coached by BVG, ND was 45th in the nation in scoring defense (the one true number that matters) at 25ppg...

Now is 45th in the nation (45ppg) in scoring defense anything to write home about? No. But consider these 3 major factors...

1. Their coordinator was fired 4 games into the season and much of the defensive gameplan that was practiced throughout camp was scrapped. Even changed its front significantly, as well as it's personnel.

2. An already thin backend of their defense lost their starting senior FS at the conclusion of fall camp. Their expected starter at field corner did not recover as had been expected from an arm injury. His backup was suspended in an altercation with police the same weekend Redfield was dismissed and then the nickel back, who was pressed out to corner because of injuries, tears his achilles in game 2 vs Nevada... Again, a unit already thin on experience, was ravaged by injuries.

3. With the rash of injuries ND faced in their secondary, they often started 4 true freshmen this season. In total, freshmen, Julian Love, Donte Vaugn, Troy Pride, Jalen Elliot and Devin Studstill made ND the youngest, most inexperienced secondary in the country, on a team that struggled with pass rush, because the 3 guys they hoped would provide that, we're 3 more true friggen freshmen in Daelin Hayes, Julian Okwara and Khalid Kareem. Those 8 freshmen were asked to play a criminal amount of defensive snaps as freshman in 2016. Still managing to finish 45th in the nation in scoring defense once a responsible defensive scheme was implemented (4 games into the season), isn't terrible at all.

People are angry. I get that. They have a right to be. Hell I'm angry too. But I think there is more talent for Elko to work with in place than people are crediting ND for having. 8 of them were true freshmen, thrown into the fire, and they simply weren't ready (as most freshman aren't).

This is my prediction...

ND will hire a strength coach who will provide some energy in S&C this off season. Those freshman will be much more physically ready as sophomores. Will they be at full potential? No. That takes time. But they'll be better. Especially the young DL who were often hung out to dry. Secondly, Elko is a much better defensive mind than anyone ND had on staff in 2016 and his defense, even in it's first year, will be much improved scheme wise from what we've seen ND field under BVG. Furthermore, I think his scheme is a great fit for ND's personnell. I've been screaming for ND to move Tranquil to SAM because he can't flip his hips and run, but his strength is coming downhill. Even better, we no longer have a SAM, instead we have a hybrid DB / LB "Rover" which suits Tranquil's skill set perfectly, as it does Spencer Perry's and D.J. Morgan's, who are both those 6'2, 220lb hybrid types. I'd love to see Justin Brent and Chase Claypool move to that position as well (although I think that's a pipe dream). On top of that, we now have a 1-gap front, which focuses on penetration, rather than gap control. Given the players we have up front, all I can say is thank freaking God.

So here it is. I think ND surrenders between 22-23ppg next year, a small bump from where they were this year, but good enough to play top 30 defense in year 1 under Elko. I think the return of Nick Watkins will help, and my fingers are crossed that Shaun Crawford makes a full recovery as well. Even if it's only slight improvement, I think all 8 of the freshman who saw meaningful minutes are a little bit better, as are the guys who really saw their first full season's of action as key contributors... Asmar Bilal, Nyles Morgan, Drue Tranquil, Te'Von Coney, Greer Martini and Jay Hayes. We often forget that those guys were all first time major contributors on top of the 8 true freshman last year. The defense was simply damn inexperienced last year and I think they'll come into the season with more confidence this year, under much better leadership and coaching (Elko personally coaching safeties and allowing Lyght to focus on the CB's) will be good. We need development along the DL of course, but there is no magical cure there. Just need work and development.

We lose 4 starters from last year's group in Isaac Rochell, Jarron Jones, James Onwualu and Cole Luke. Definitely some of our more capable players, but only Jones' production I see as irreplaceable this year, but I do think the collective experience gained last year, combined with a new (much more sound) scheme will lead to net gains.

Here is my projected defense, one that I think will see solid improvement from this year. Earth shattering defense? No. But defense that ND can win a lot of games with if the offense gets its act together and plays like it's capable of playing? Yes.

SDE: Jay Hayes
2. Khalid Karem

NG: Daniel Cage
2. Darnell Ewell

DT: Jerry Tillery
2. Jonathan Bonner

WDE: Daelin Hayes
2. Andrew Trumbetti / Julian Okwara

Will: Te'Von Coney
2. Asmar Bilal

Mike: Nyles Morgan
2. Greer Martini

Rover: Drue Tranquil
2. Spencer Perry

CB: Nick Watkins
2. Troy Pride

FS: Devin Studstill
2. Paulson Adebo

SS: Jalen Elliot
2. Nico Fertitta

CB: Donte Vaughn
2. Julian Love

NB: Shaun Crawford**
2. Julian Love

That's my prediction. Willing to make a friendly wager with anyone out there that is in the camp that ND isnt going to play solid defense next season.
 
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People quickly forget that Notre Dame finished #62 in the country in scoring defense at 27.8 ppg. However, despite stiffer competition after the firing of BVG, ND interim defensive staff managed to cut 2.7 ppg off the scoring defense over the final 8 games. Excluding the the games coached by BVG, ND was 45th in the nation in scoring defense (the one true number that matters) at 25ppg...

Now is 45th in the nation (45ppg) in scoring defense anything to write home about? No. But consider these 3 major factors...

1. Their coordinator was fired 4 games into the season and much of the defensive gameplan that was practiced throughout camp was scrapped. Even changednit's front significantly, as well as it's personnel.

2. An already thin backend of their defense lost their starting senior FS at the conclusion of fall camp. Their expected starter at field corner did not recover as had been expected from an arm injury. His backup was suspended in an altercation with police the same weekend Redfield was dismissed and then the nickel back, who was pressed out to corner because of injuries, tears his achilles in game 2 vs Nevada... Again, a unit already thin on experience, was ravaged by injuries.

3. With the rash of injuries ND faced in their secondary, they often started 4 true freshman this season. In total, freshmen, Julian Love, Donte Vaugn, Troy Pride, Jalen Elliot and Devin Studstill made ND the youngest, most inexperienced secondary in the country, on a team that struggled with pass rush, because the 3 guys they hoped would provide that, we're 3 more true friggen freshmen in Daelin Hayes, Julian Okwara and Khalid Kareem. Those 8 freshmenn were asked to play a criminal amount of defensive snaps as freshman in 2016. Still managing to finish 45th in the nation in scoring defense once a responsible defensive scheme was implemented (4 games into the season), isn't terrible at all.

People are angry. I get that. They have a right to be. Hell I'm angry too. But I think there is more talent for Elko to work with in place than people are crediting ND for having. 8 of them were true freshmen, thrown into the fire, and they simply weren't ready (as most freshman aren't).

This is my prediction...

ND will hire a strength coach who will provide some energy in S&C this off season. Those freshman will be much more physically ready s sophomores. Will they be at full potential? No. That takes time. But they'learned be better. Especially the young DL who were often hung out they dry. Secondly, Elko is a much better defensive mind they on an anyone ND had on staff in 2016 and his defense, even ithough first year, will be much improved scheme wise from what we've seen ND field under Diaco. Furthermore, I think his scheme is a great fit for ND's personnell. I've been screaming for ND to move Tranquil to SAM because he cant flip his hips and run, but his strength is coming downhill. Even better, we no longer have a SAM, instead we have a hybrid DB / LB "Rover" which suits Tranquil's skill set perfectly, as it does Spencer Perry's and D.J. Morgan's, who are both those 6'2, 220lb hybrid types. I'd love to see Justin Brent and Chase Claypool move to that position as well (although I think that's a pipe dream). On top of that, we now have a 1-gap front, which focuses on pentration, rather than gap control. Given the players we have up front, all I can say is thank freaking God.

So here it is. I think ND surrenders between 22-23ppg next year, a small bump from where they were this year, but good enough to play top 30 defense in year 1 under Elko. I think the return of Nick Watkins will help, and my fingers are crossed that Shaun Crawford makes a full recovery as well. Even if it's only slight improvemrnt, I think all 8 of the freshman who saw meaningful minutes are a little bit better, as are the guys who really saw their first full season's of action as key contributors... Asmar Bilal, Nyles Morgan, Drue Tranquil, Te'Von Coney, Greer Martini and Jay Hayes. We often forget that those guys were all first time major contributors on top of the 8 true freshman last year. The defense was simply damn inexperienced last year and I think they'll come into the season with more confidence this year, under much better leadership and coaching (Elko personally coaching safeties and allowing Lyght to focus on the CB's) will be good. We need development along the DL of course, but there is no magical cure there. Just need work and development.

We lose 4 starters from last year's group in Isaac Rochell, Jarron Jones, James Onwualu and Cole Luke. Definitely some of our more capable players, but only Jones' production I see as irreplaceable this year, but I do think the collective experience gained last year, combined with a new (much more sound) scheme will lead to net gains.

Here is my projected defense, one that I think will see solid improvement from this year. Earth shattering defense? No. But defense that ND can win a lot of games with if the offense gets its act together and plays like it's capable of playing? Yes.

SDE: Jay Hayes
2. Khalid Karem

NG: Daniel Cage
2. Darnell Ewell

DT: Jerry Tillery
2. Jonathan Bonner

WDE: Daelin Hayes
2. Andrew Trumbetti / Julian Okwara

Will: Te'Von Coney
2. Asmar Bilal

Mike: Nyles Morgan
2. Greer Martini

Rover: Drue Tranquil
2. Spencer Perry

CB: Nick Watkins
2. Troy Pride

FS: Devin Studstill
2. Paulson Adebo

SS: Jalen Elliot
2. Nico Fertitta

CB: Donte Vaughn
2. Julian Love

NB: Shaun Crawford**
2. Julian Love

That's my prediction. Willing to make a friendly wager with anyone out there that is in the camp that ND isnt going to play solid defense next season.
This year we set an ND record for ineptitude. We had the most losses in history to teams that finished .500 or below.
What is your definition of "solid defense"? Scoring? Ypg? Sacks? Hurries? Turnovers forced? Fumbles? Ints? Defensive scoring? Other?.......
Thanks...
 
This year we set an ND record for ineptitude. We had the most losses in history to teams that finished .500 or below.
What is your definition of "solid defense"? Scoring? Ypg? Sacks? Hurries? Turnovers forced? Fumbles? Ints? Defensive scoring? Other?.......
Thanks...

Scoring defense. That's the stat that matters. Keeping points off the board + scoring points = winnings games. Would I like the added bonus of being able to score defensive touchdowns the way Alabama does? Of course I would, but one step at a time.

I've long said that that I consider top 25-30 defense as solid. I think ND was heading in that direction in the 2nd half of the year, after BVG's firing, but they were just never going to get there with significant scheme change, and 8 true freshman playing such meaningful minutes. All things considered, 45th nationally (about 3 ppg per game off of where they need to be) isn't terrible... It's not ridiculous to think that 14-15 first time starters (in 2016), under much better, more organized leadership, can't be 3-4ppg better in 2016.

So in short. When ND gets to 22 ppg defense for the season, I consider them playing solid defense. When that number drops sub 20 ppg, I consider that very good defense. Under 15ppg is elite defense... IMO.
 
IIO...curious, why do you place Vaughn ahead of Love? Thought they both played really well for pure freshmen and given the circumstances, just thought Love would get the nod based on performance.
 
IIO...curious, why do you place Vaughn ahead of Love? Thought they both played really well for pure freshmen and given the circumstances, just thought Love would get the nod based on performance.

Elko plays a lot of off man and cover 3 and cover 4... Donte Vaughn is really long (as is Nick Watkins). I think Vaughn will do a nice job altering passes ND closing passing windows.

In modern college football you play nickel on between 1/3 and 1/2 of your defensive snaps. You need a damn good nickel back to play good defense. Love is better suited inside than anyone on the roster not named Crawford, whose health is seriously in question going into next year. Love is also a good tackler and a tough kid. Your nickel needs to be able to support the run inside as well.
 
Elko plays a lot of off man and cover 3 and cover 4... Donte Vaughn is really long (as is Nick Watkins). I think Vaughn will do a nice job altering passes ND closing passing windows.

In modern college football you play nickel on between 1/3 and 1/2 of your defensive snaps. You need a damn good nickel back to play good defense. Love is better suited inside than anyone on the roster not named Crawford, whose health is seriously in question going into next year. Love is also a good tackler and a tough kid. Your nickel needs to be able to support the run inside as well.
Help me with my ignorance of Elko's schemes. Thought Elko's 4-2-5 would utilize the typical nickel back far less. Are you suggesting the Rover will be off the field up to half the time, or does Elko remove a down lineman in obvious passing situations?
 
Scoring defense. That's the stat that matters. Keeping points off the board + scoring points = winnings games. Would I like the added bonus of being able to score defensive touchdowns the way Alabama does? Of course I would, but one step at a time.

I've long said that that I consider top 25-30 defense as solid. I think ND was heading in that direction in the 2nd half of the year, after BVG's firing, but they were just never going to get there with significant scheme change, and 8 true freshman playing such meaningful minutes. All things considered, 45th nationally (about 3 ppg per game off of where they need to be) isn't terrible... It's not ridiculous to think that 14-15 first time starters (in 2016), under much better, more organized leadership, can't be 3-4ppg better in 2016.

So in short. When ND gets to 22 ppg defense for the season, I consider them playing solid defense. When that number drops sub 20 ppg, I consider that very good defense. Under 15ppg is elite defense... IMO.

So, is your wager that ND's D will be in the 25-30 rank in scoring D?
 
Help me with my ignorance of Elko's schemes. Thought Elko's 4-2-5 would utilize the typical nickel back far less. Are you suggesting the Rover will be off the field up to half the time, or does Elko remove a down lineman in obvious passing situations?

In passing situations we'll see some 3-3-5 looks with a nickel in the game. We'll also the Rover bump down to the traditional LB spot, taking the Will put of the game and sliding the nickel into the Rover's spot in the Sam's spot.

This defense will put athletes on the field in 3rd down, obvious passing situations.

The idea of Elko's defense is to be able to play base on the majority of snaps, then transition to a pass rushing, nickel on 3rd down. My ideal 3rd and 6 or more defense would be be...

SDE: Daelin Hayes
DT: Jerry Tillery / Darnell Ewell
DT: Khalid Kareem
WDE: Julian Okwara
LB: Drue Tranquill
LB: Nyles Morgan
Nickel: Julian Love / Shaun Crawford
CB: Donte Vaughn
FS: Devin Studstill
SS: Jalen Elliott
CB: Nick Watkins

Speed kills on 3rd down and I especially love getting as many potential pass rushing athletes on the field when you have time to make a substitution.
 
So, is your wager that ND's D will be in the 25-30 rank in scoring D?

In that range, yes. I may lose out an wind up in the low 30's, but I think Elko is good enough, with what's coming back, for ND to surrender 3 less ppg (down from 25 to 22) for ND to be in that 25-30 range,
 
In passing situations we'll see some 3-3-5 looks with a nickel in the game. We'll also the Rover bump down to the traditional LB spot, taking the Will put of the game and sliding the nickel into the Rover's spot in the Sam's spot.

This defense will put athletes on the field in 3rd down, obvious passing situations.

The idea of Elko's defense is to be able to play base on the majority of snaps, then transition to a pass rushing, nickel on 3rd down. My ideal 3rd and 6 or more defense would be be...

SDE: Daelin Hayes
DT: Jerry Tillery / Darnell Ewell
DT: Khalid Kareem
WDE: Julian Okwara
LB: Drue Tranquill
LB: Nyles Morgan
Nickel: Julian Love / Shaun Crawford
CB: Donte Vaughn
FS: Devin Studstill
SS: Jalen Elliott
CB: Nick Watkins

Speed kills on 3rd down and I especially love getting as many potential pass rushing athletes on the field when you have time to make a substitution.
Perfect. Thanks. Enjoy reading and talking things like probable lineups and New schemes instead of our collective angst over Kelly and Jack and all the uncertainty regarding coaches, etc...
 
In that range, yes. I may lose out an wind up in the low 30's, but I think Elko is good enough, with what's coming back, for ND to surrender 3 less ppg (down from 25 to 22) for ND to be in that 25-30 range,

I think we finished #61 in scoring D. A thirty plus spot bump would be impressive.

Wake had the # 38 scoring D in '13.

Elko then took over in '14 and dropped to #60, climbed to #43 in '15 and #23 this year.

Do you see a first year potential install issue/problem?
 
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IIO, thanks for you insights and thoughts. It's always good to read what's on your mind. I love Irish football but can't follow it as closely as you do so I really appreciate your comments!
GO IRISH!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I think we finished #61 in scoring D. A thirty plus spot bump would be impressive.

Wake had the # 38 scoring D in '13.

Elko then took over in '14 and dropped to #60, climbed to #43 in '15 and #23 this year.

Do you see a first year potential install issue/problem?

I noted earlier (maybe you missed it), that ND had the #45 scoring defense in the 8 games post BVG's firing. When responsible coaches took over, ND's defense improved, despite going to younger players and making an in season scheme change.

It's my assertion that ND's #61 total ranking (counting the BVG coached games) wpuld have improved considerably had he not been on the staff and Elston (or anyone responsible) had been coaching from the beginning.

ND would have surrendered less points to Texas, MSU and Duke playing thw scheme they played in the back 2/3 of the year.

The #45 scoring defense that ND played the back 2/3 of the year is what Elko is building on.
 
I noted earlier (maybe you missed it), that ND had the #45 scoring defense in the 8 games post BVG's firing. When responsible coaches took over, ND's defense improved, despite going to younger players and making an in season scheme change.

It's my assertion that ND's #61 total ranking (counting the BVG coached games) wpuld have improved considerably had he not been on the staff and Elston (or anyone responsible) had been coaching from the beginning.

ND would have surrendered less points to Texas, MSU and Duke playing thw scheme they played in the back 2/3 of the year.

The #45 scoring defense that ND played the back 2/3 of the year is what Elko is building on.
The last 4 game ND's defense gave up.
27 Navy
6 Army
34 VT
45 SC

First 8 Games

50 TX
10 Nevada
36 MSU
38 Duke
33 Syracuse
10 NC ST
17 Stanford
27 Miami

Not a big difference the Irish started off poorly, and ended poorly.
Army helped the final 4 scoring defense, but so did the hurricane that was the NC St game.
I don't think it's possible to conclude anything especially since the Irish gave up 45 at the end of the season. The most aside from the Texas game which was the first game of the season with very little hitting allowed in practice at the beginning of the season.

JMO
 
I noted earlier (maybe you missed it), that ND had the #45 scoring defense in the 8 games post BVG's firing. When responsible coaches took over, ND's defense improved, despite going to younger players and making an in season scheme change.

It's my assertion that ND's #61 total ranking (counting the BVG coached games) wpuld have improved considerably had he not been on the staff and Elston (or anyone responsible) had been coaching from the beginning.

ND would have surrendered less points to Texas, MSU and Duke playing thw scheme they played in the back 2/3 of the year.

The #45 scoring defense that ND played the back 2/3 of the year is what Elko is building on.

Wake had the # 38 scoring D in '13.

Elko then took over in '14 and dropped to #60, climbed to #43 in '15 and #23 this year.

Do you see a first year potential install issue/problem?
 
Wake had the # 38 scoring D in '13.

Elko then took over in '14 and dropped to #60, climbed to #43 in '15 and #23 this year.

Do you see a first year potential install issue/problem?

There are alays some issues with installation in year 1, but they are only huge issues if the coordinator can't recognize when he's over installing and fails to pull back the reigns on the install. One factor that ND has going in its favour is that none of the 11 starters that will be expected to play next year, will be seeing their first major dose of college action in 2017. Even a considerable number of their backups saw meaningful reps this year. That's a good starting point. Compare that to 2016 when the following players that will be returning this year were seeing a high volume of action for the first time (in many cases, their first action at all). Daelin Hayes, Jay Hayes, Jonathan Bonner, Nyles Morgan, Greer Martini, Asmar Bilal, Te'Von Coney, Drue Tranquill, Nico Fertitta, Jalen Elliot, Devin Studstill, Shaun Crawford, Donte Vaughn, Julian Love, Troy Pride and to a lesser extent, Jamir Jones, Julian Okwara and Khalid Kareem... We saw a lot of green players in 2016,who will be able to carry that gained experience into 2017. People often talk about how difficult it is to pick up a new scheme. What is much more difficult is for a first time college player to adjust to the speed, physicality and relentlessness of the college game. Learning a scheme for the first time on top of that, is especially challenging. When you have 1 rookie like in 2012 with Kei Russell, you can help him with the experience around him and make his job as easy as possible. Try doing that with 4 true freshman in the secondary, just learning the college game, let alone a new scheme, together... So do I expect some install issues? Sure. I would be naive not to. But how many? That depends on how much of the package Elko puts in and how much he adds as the season goes. He strikes me as a guy who subscribes to the the KISS philosophy much more than a guy like BVG, who tried to be extremely multiple and exotic and who changed the game plan considerably each week in attempt to cause confusion, which often worked... Against the wrong team.

It's easy to point to Elko's installation as the reason for the drop off in scoring defense between 2013 and 2014 at Wake Forest, but that's simply refuses to ask the following questions?

1. How many returning players did Elko have from 2013 to 2014? Did he have veterans to work with or was he breaking in a group of first time players into a new scheme?

2. What was Wake Forest's injury situation in 2014? Nothing hurts a first year defense more than injuries. If they were hit by a rash of them, especially at thin positions, I could easily see a dropoff. It's difficult enough to get a two deep ready for the first year in a new scheme, let alone if you faced the injuries / off field issues that the ND secondary did so close to the season this year.

3. What was the talent level at Wake Forest in 2014. Relative to his ACC competition, what did Elko have to work with? Even the best coaches need some talent to be successful. At ND, Elko's 22 in the two deep could consist of as many as 19,4 star and 1, 5 star player. Talent should help. On top of talent, what was Wake's personnell situation like in 2013? Was the personnell currently on campus when he arrived anywhere near what he needed to execute his desired scheme. If key pieces were missing, that could greatly hurt the defense.

4. How did the offenses between 2013 and 2014 compare? Did Wake suffer a significant offensive chanbe or major personnell turnover that affected the offense? We're they moving the ball and helping the defense out, or going 3-and out, turning the ball over on their side of half and putting the defense in jams. While scoring defense tells the story of the defenses ability to keep the ball out of the endzone, it's still a team game and Wake's offense could have potentially played a role in the regression between 2013 and 2014.

5. Finally, how did the SOS compare. This is always a major factor. Who did they play from the other division in the ACC in both years? Was 2014 a tougher year? Who did they play at home vs on the road? Who did they play in both years OOC.

Respectfully, you would have to give me all the information on those very important factors before I could simply blame a single factor (installation) for a decline in production year one. Anything opinion I would formulate without doing said research would lead me to a completely uninformed opinion as to why the drop off happened.

What we do know is that the defense got better every year Elko was there and we also know that Wake Forest generally has the weakest recruiting in the ACC (in terms of rankings), so he was certainly developing talent. Our hope should be that he has the same cpability of maximizing the talent of higher caliber players as he does lower caliber players... Something I wrongfully failed to give Bob Diaco credit for until he had already accomplished it was developing players and, but not over coaching them and instead putting them in positions to grow and maximize their skill set. He wasn't a genius. His scheme wasn't complicated. He simply asked guys to due 1 job and to execute that job to the best of thwireless ability. The more ability ND had (through recruiting) the more that defense improved. I'm hoping for thesame from Elko. A consistant, simple, approach that gradually gets more complex as the the entire unit can handle it. Focus on player development and fundamental execution and allow the defense to be in a position to improve as the season goes.
 
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There are alays some issues with installation in year 1, but they are only huge issues if the coordinator can't recognize when he's over installing and fails to pull back the reigns on the install. One factor that ND has going in its favour is that none of the 11 starters that will be expected to play next year, will be seeing their first major dose of college action in 2017. Even a considerable number of their backups saw meaningful reps this year. That's a good starting point. Compare that to 2016 when the following players that will be returning this year were seeing a high volume of action for the first time (in many cases, their first action at all). Daelin Hayes, Jay Hayes, Jonathan Bonner, Nyles Morgan, Greer Martini, Asmar Bilal, Te'Von Coney, Drue Tranquill, Nico Fertitta, Jalen Elliot, Devin Studstill, Shaun Crawford, Donte Vaughn, Julian Love, Troy Pride and to a lesser extent, Jamir Jones, Julian Okwara and Khalid Kareem... We saw a lot of green players in 2016,who will be able to carry that gained experience into 2017. People often talk about how difficult it is to pick up a new scheme. What is much more difficult is for a first time college player to adjust to the speed, physicality and relentlessness of the college game. Learning a scheme for the first time on top of that, is especially challenging. When you have 1 rookie like in 2012 with Kei Russell, you can help him with the experience around him and make his job as easy as possible. Try doing that with 4 true freshman in the secondary, just learning the college game, let alone a new scheme, together... So do I expect some install issues? Sure. I would be naive not to. But how many? That depends on how much of the package Elko puts in and how much he adds as the season goes. He strikes me as a guy who subscribes to the the KISS philosophy much more than a guy like BVG, who tried to be extremely multiple and exotic and who changed the game plan considerably each week in attempt to cause confusion, which often worked... Against the wrong team.

It's easy to point to Elko's installation as the reason for the drop off in scoring defense between 2013 and 2014 at Wake Forest, but that's simply refuses to ask the following questions?

1. How many returning players did Elko have from 2013 to 2014? Did he have veterans to work with or was he breaking in a group of first time players into a new scheme?

2. What was Wake Forest's injury situation in 2014? Nothing hurts a first year defense more than injuries. If they were hit by a rash of them, especially at thin positions, I could easily see a dropoff. It's difficult enough to get a two deep ready for the first year in a new scheme, let alone if you faced the injuries / off field issues that the ND secondary did so close to the season this year.

3. What was the talent level at Wake Forest in 2014. Relative to his ACC competition, what did Elko have to work with? Even the best coaches need some talent to be successful. At ND, Elko's 22 in the two deep could consist of as many as 19,4 star and 1, 5 star player. Talent should help. On top of talent, what was Wake's personnell situation like in 2013? Was the personnell currently on campus when he arrived anywhere near what he needed to execute his desired scheme. If key pieces were missing, that could greatly hurt the defense.

4. How did the offenses between 2013 and 2014 compare? Did Wake suffer a significant offensive chanbe or major personnell turnover that affected the offense? We're they moving the ball and helping the defense out, or going 3-and out, turning the ball over on their side of half and putting the defense in jams. While scoring defense tells the story of the defenses ability to keep the ball out of the endzone, it's still a team game and Wake's offense could have potentially played a role in the regression between 2013 and 2014.

5. Finally, how did the SOS compare. This is always a major factor. Who did they play from the other division in the ACC in both years? Was 2014 a tougher year? Who did they play at home vs on the road? Who did they play in both years OOC.

Respectfully, you would have to give me all the information on those very important factors before I could simply blame a single factor (installation) for a decline in production year one. Anything opinion I would formulate without doing said research would lead me to a completely uninformed opinion as to why the drop off happened.

What we do know is that the defense got better every year Elko was there and we also know that Wake Forest generally has the weakest recruiting in the ACC (in terms of rankings), so he was certainly developing talent. Our hope should be that he has the same cpability of maximizing the talent of higher caliber players as he does lower caliber players... Something I wrongfully failed to give Bob Diaco credit for until he had already accomplished it was developing players and, but not over coaching them and instead putting them in positions to grow and maximize their skill set. He wasn't a genius. His scheme wasn't complicated. He simply asked guys to due 1 job and to execute that job to the best of thwireless ability. The more ability ND had (through recruiting) the more that defense improved. I'm hoping for thesame from Elko. A consistant, simple, approach that gradually gets more complex as the the entire unit can handle it. Focus on player development and fundamental execution and allow the defense to be in a position to improve as the season goes.
The defense did not get better every year. It dropped 22 spots in year 1 and in year 2 was still 5 spots worse than what he inherited. Thanks for providing me with the detail on what you don't know about Elko...Wake's situation...
 
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