Per Jeff McKnight ND to go 8-5 Next Season

[TheDecker]

I mean the committee might show favor to a team who incurs a 2nd loss in a conference playoff or in a tough conference. ND's brand vs 'deservability'

Except that ND's SOS is almost always higher than most of the teams that they're in the conversation with, and "deservability" is nearly always on their side, compared to most teams with an equal number of losses

But please continue on with your unfounded and unsupported idiocy....

 

[TheDecker]

^ keep an eye on the QB derby, aka, 'how to screw up a good thing"!

Competition is the key to running any high level program....that's just an undebatable fact
(similar to the ones you were being humiliated with last night)

The key is to run the competition well and use it to bring the QB position closer to all the other units (who also have competition) and not allow it to divide the team

With players like Zaire/Kizer and coaches like Kelly and Sanford, I'm not too worried about it

 

[schadenfreude]

I mean the committee might show favor to a team who incurs a 2nd loss in a conference playoff or in a tough conference. ND's brand vs 'deservability'

A 10-2 team wouldn't have played in a conference championship game. Unless they had the one in ten thousand game called, like LSU due to lightning.

 

[schadenfreude]

Except that ND's SOS is almost always higher than most of the teams that they're in the conversation with, and "deservability" is nearly always on their side, compared to most teams with an equal number of losses

But please continue on with your unfounded and unsupported idiocy....

Agree. No team would be assured to make a major bowl at 10-2 but in most years ND would have one of the best chances.

 

[mikeconn89]

A lot of pessimists here considering that we will be favored in 11 games and possibly all of them with USC being the only possible exception.

 

[DillonDomer]

In late fall, looking at the schedule, I thought it looked pretty easy as pointed out by IIO. Now as I look at it, I see a very wide disparity of potential outcomes. 9-3 and 10-2 are certainly possible, but the Texas game will drive the season. With as good as we looked and as bad as Texas was last year, my fear is we come out flat and Texas is fired up at home after being embarrassed last year. Strong will make improvements and, while young, will have a better team in the fall. If we lose there - it could be a bit of a death spiral. MI ST, while replacing a QB, has a great defense and we can't win if we can't score points. 11-1 is a possibility, but so is 7-5. I am very worried about our D - and frankly with our talent, there should not be reason to be. But, we haven't recruited particularly well and have underachieved with the talent we have. If the team can't pick up BVG's scheme this year, he has to be gone.

 

[Pennick4]

In late fall, looking at the schedule, I thought it looked pretty easy as pointed out by IIO. Now as I look at it, I see a very wide disparity of potential outcomes. 9-3 and 10-2 are certainly possible, but the Texas game will drive the season. With as good as we looked and as bad as Texas was last year, my fear is we come out flat and Texas is fired up at home after being embarrassed last year. Strong will make improvements and, while young, will have a better team in the fall. If we lose there - it could be a bit of a death spiral. MI ST, while replacing a QB, has a great defense and we can't win if we can't score points. 11-1 is a possibility, but so is 7-5. I am very worried about our D - and frankly with our talent, there should not be reason to be. But, we haven't recruited particularly well and have underachieved with the talent we have. If the team can't pick up BVG's scheme this year, he has to be gone.

Wow you went out on a limb... 11-1 or 7-5.

 

[TheDecker]

In late fall, looking at the schedule, I thought it looked pretty easy as pointed out by IIO. Now as I look at it, I see a very wide disparity of potential outcomes. 9-3 and 10-2 are certainly possible, but the Texas game will drive the season. With as good as we looked and as bad as Texas was last year, my fear is we come out flat and Texas is fired up at home after being embarrassed last year. Strong will make improvements and, while young, will have a better team in the fall. If we lose there - it could be a bit of a death spiral. MI ST, while replacing a QB, has a great defense and we can't win if we can't score points. 11-1 is a possibility, but so is 7-5. I am very worried about our D - and frankly with our talent, there should not be reason to be. But, we haven't recruited particularly well and have underachieved with the talent we have. If the team can't pick up BVG's scheme this year, he has to be gone.

Texas looks like they'll be starting Swoopes at QB again. Considering that will be the 3rd new offensive system he'll be learning in 3 years...and this will be his very 1st game in the new system.
It's going to be hard form them to have an effective and efficient offense with that scenario.

Texas played in 6 games last year where Swoopes had 10+ combined pass/rush attempts. In those 6 games they scored:
Less than 10 points - 3x (ND, TCU, Iowa St)
20 Points - 1x (Baylor)
40+ Points - 2x (Kansas and Texas Tech)

So basically, with Dwoopes at the helm, the only defenses Texas could score on we're Bottom 5 Defenses in all of CFB

We'll have to see what things look like with the new offense...but they seem like a team that's going to really struggle

 

[TheDecker]

Texas looks like they'll be starting Swoopes at QB again. Considering that will be the 3rd new offensive system he'll be learning in 3 years...and this will be his very 1st game in the new system.
It's going to be hard form them to have an effective and efficient offense with that scenario.

Texas played in 6 games last year where Swoopes had 10+ combined pass/rush attempts. In those 6 games they scored:
Less than 10 points - 3x (ND, TCU, Iowa St)
20 Points - 1x (Baylor)
40+ Points - 2x (Kansas and Texas Tech)

So basically, with Dwoopes at the helm, the only defenses Texas could score on we're Bottom 5 Defenses in all of CFB

We'll have to see what things look like with the new offense...but they seem like a team that's going to really struggle

Plus, Texas's DT situation is worse than our S situation...and id much rather be weak at S than DT

We should definitely win this game

Far from a lock, but we SHOULD win

 

[Pennick4]

Texas looks like they'll be starting Swoopes at QB again. Considering that will be the 3rd new offensive system he'll be learning in 3 years...and this will be his very 1st game in the new system.
It's going to be hard form them to have an effective and efficient offense with that scenario.

Texas played in 6 games last year where Swoopes had 10+ combined pass/rush attempts. In those 6 games they scored:
Less than 10 points - 3x (ND, TCU, Iowa St)
20 Points - 1x (Baylor)
40+ Points - 2x (Kansas and Texas Tech)

So basically, with Dwoopes at the helm, the only defenses Texas could score on we're Bottom 5 Defenses in all of CFB

We'll have to see what things look like with the new offense...but they seem like a team that's going to really struggle

I agree. Texas is going to be bad once again next year. Strong replaced a bunch of coaches and appears to be over his head there. I don't expect it to be as lopsided but ND will roll the Longhorns again.

 

[end_23]

Pennick is a Kelly fan first, realist 2nd. 9 wins is a pipe dream. But he Pro Kelly crowd will blow the trumpets like it is the rapture if we win 9 games. How the might has fallen.

I agree.

 

[end_23]

I mentioned 4 possible losses, but I did not factor in the 1 mandatory loss that Kelly causes each season. Therefore, 4-5 losses is a strong bet,

Kelly makes me sick. He gets a constant pass from the bozo excuse crowd. All the bs losses he's had are vomit worthy.

 

[end_23]

just like last year right ? clown convention must be in town.

10-3!!!!!! Celebrate beating noooooo boddddy. Clow_.

The blind never mention 2010, 11, 13, and 14. You know, the majority of the Kelly seasons. Last season was one of the most meh years I've ever watched.

 

[end_23]

You may have said it.....but it's still wrong

A 2-Loss ND team is nearly assured a major bowl game (New Year's 6)

And assured of another spanking at the hands of a team that cares about its football program.

 

[perseverare]

come on: credit where credit is due; '15 was probably Kelly & Co.'s best job while at ND.

And, realistically I doubt anyone not named Saban or Meyer could get ND at the perennial Top 5 level.

If th team plays it's best and the staff doesn't shoot itself in the foot, that is about all the fan can ask for.

 

[TheDecker]

And assured of another spanking at the hands of a team that cares about its football program.

Does trolling make you feel good?

It's good to at least see you abandon all pretense of "realism"

 

[perseverare]

^ and what did you say or add?........oh, as always! NOTHING

 

[TheDecker]

^ and what did you say or add?........oh, as always! NOTHING

May want to reread the thread...I said a lot about how the team plays, why the analysis is flawed, etc.

The act that you can't understand what I'm saying doesn't make it any less present or true

You usually miss most of the football related discussion

 

[ndfi65]

The bottom line is the schedule is weak and anything less than 10 wins is a bad season. I'm sure all the rah rah bk buddies won't like that comment. Another 8 or 9 win season will be just fine to them since bk is such a great coach. If he's so great where are the big game/bowl wins? More 8-5, 9-4 to come. Oh but we are clowns because we live in reality. Look at his record folks. And i don't want to hear this "who would you have coach BS"

 

[echowaker]

The bottom line is the schedule is weak and anything less than 10 wins is a bad season. I'm sure all the rah rah bk buddies won't like that comment. Another 8 or 9 win season will be just fine to them since bk is such a great coach. If he's so great where are the big game/bowl wins? More 8-5, 9-4 to come. Oh but we are clowns because we live in reality. Look at his record folks. And i don't want to hear this "who would you have coach BS"

why don't you want to hear that ? you and others are obviously dissatisfied with the current coach. who then would you prefer that is a legitimate viable option ? who in the past 4 coaching searches that showed serious interest in the job would be a better option than brian kelly ? we'd all like an urban meyer or nick saban but they're not interested. you're a low-hanging fruit poster. easy to bitch,bitch bitch without offering opinions on how to correct this horrific situation you perceive the notre dame football program is in.

 

[perseverare]

^ but really, consider the location (SB), the weather (brrr!), the administration attitude that college football is still played as an inter-scholastic sport by student athletes (an atta-boy), recent suspension and reasons compared to the other football programs (stoic honor committee), the virtual 20 year lack of national prominence, ....

Look at recruiting trends and the attitude/climate of administrators of college football, the needle is not pointing up for ND.
Princeton, Yale, Navy and Army were once football powers. Nothing stays the same and empires do not last forever. We/somefans are just slow to respond or accept the changes.

 

[ndfi65]

why don't you want to hear that ? you and others are obviously dissatisfied with the current coach. who then would you prefer that is a legitimate viable option ? who in the past 4 coaching searches that showed serious interest in the job would be a better option than brian kelly ? we'd all like an urban meyer or nick saban but they're not interested. you're a low-hanging fruit poster. easy to bitch,bitch bitch without offering opinions on how to correct this horrific situation you perceive the notre dame football program is in.

Never said horrific Mr. coach, just mediocrity at its finest where you and your cast of bk supporters think 8-9 wins is great for ND. I don't think it is

 

[perseverare]

^ but after all these years, you need to adjust to what is referred to unfairly as 'the new normal',
The concessions made at other universities in order to WIN hav accelerated down a slippery slope that ND as an institution is not willing to go down. This is very evident and reflected in so many ways.

Asking ND to compete on even plane with those programs is really 'pumping sunshine' at a delusionally toxic level.
9-3 is not just the new norm! it is actually good!

 

[Java65]

come on: credit where credit is due; '15 was probably Kelly & Co.'s best job while at ND.

And, realistically I doubt anyone not named Saban or Meyer could get ND at the perennial Top 5 level.

If th team plays it's best and the staff doesn't shoot itself in the foot, that is about all the fan can ask for.

This sums up perfectly why I'm on the fence regarding Kelly. I think he's done a fantastic job recruiting and developing players, yes there are some holes but nearly every program has them.

As you said, last season was probably his best job coaching. He did a fantastic job last season. Prior to that every single season he would have games where he did such a terrible job of in-game coaching it cost us wins.

This is why I'm on the fence. I'm not sure we can get another coach that can get the talent and develop it as well as BK has given all restrictions at ND. I'm also fairly certain we could get a coach that wouldn't be so terrible in-game.

 

[NDSMC78]

Never said horrific Mr. coach, just mediocrity at its finest where you and your cast of bk supporters think 8-9 wins is great for ND. I don't think it is

This straw man argument is ridiculous. NO one has ever said that 8 or 9 wins is a great season. But some folks keep repeating it as if that were true.

 

[Java65]

^ but really, consider the location (SB), the weather (brrr!), the administration attitude that college football is still played as an inter-scholastic sport by student athletes (an atta-boy), recent suspension and reasons compared to the other football programs (stoic honor committee), the virtual 20 year lack of national prominence, ....

Look at recruiting trends and the attitude/climate of administrators of college football, the needle is not pointing up for ND.
Princeton, Yale, Navy and Army were once football powers. Nothing stays the same and empires do not last forever. We/somefans are just slow to respond or accept the changes.

I don't buy the weather argument and I never have. I think Meyer and Harbaugh are proving that the weather excuse is just that, an excuse.

The #1 problem, as you point out, is the administration's attitude toward college football. They can pretend that's college football today is played by student-athletes but they are wrong. Not an opinion but a fact. CFB today is a big business paid by semi-pro athletes and ND refuses to acknowledge that fact. I know the "ND Way" crowd will be up in arms but please, lets accept the fact that if, big IF, ND really wants to compete they cannot do so under the restrictions placed on the program.

IMO, ND should either decide to make some changes to compete or join the Ivy League.

 

[echowaker]

Never said horrific Mr. coach, just mediocrity at its finest where you and your cast of bk supporters think 8-9 wins is great for ND. I don't think it is

way to avoid the question. i have never said 8 or 9 wins is great. i'm a realist. again, who would you prefer ? you are obviously dissatisfied. easy to bitch and complain, that takes no thought or effort at all. what do you propose as a viable solution to your dissatisfaction ? you've made it clear that you believe kelly is not the man for the job.

 

[echowaker]

^ but after all these years, you need to adjust to what is referred to unfairly as 'the new normal',
The concessions made at other universities in order to WIN hav accelerated down a slippery slope that ND as an institution is not willing to go down. This is very evident and reflected in so many ways.

Asking ND to compete on even plane with those programs is really 'pumping sunshine' at a delusionally toxic level.
9-3 is not just the new norm! it is actually good!

9-3 has always been "good". its certainly not great. it's all about what ones expectations are.

 

[wicker]

ND is much closer to a national title than most here realize

 

[echowaker]

I don't buy the weather argument and I never have. I think Meyer and Harbaugh are proving that the weather excuse is just that, an excuse.

The #1 problem, as you point out, is the administration's attitude toward college football. They can pretend that's college football today is played by student-athletes but they are wrong. Not an opinion but a fact. CFB today is a big business paid by semi-pro athletes and ND refuses to acknowledge that fact. I know the "ND Way" crowd will be up in arms but please, lets accept the fact that if, big IF, ND really wants to compete they cannot do so under the restrictions placed on the program.

IMO, ND should either decide to make some changes to compete or join the Ivy League.

i agree. if nd joined the ivy league tomorrow it wouldn't diminish my interest one iota.

 

[echowaker]

ND is much closer to a national title than most here realize

i agree with this also. they are in the best position they've been in as a program since the early 90's.

 

[Java65]

ND is much closer to a national title than most here realize

While I think ND is much better than they have been in decades, I think it will be very difficult for them to ever win a NC again..here's why.

When teams like Bama and O$U lose a starter to injury they just plug in the next great athlete, and they can do this at any position.

In many cases ND is so limited on who they can offer the, "next guy in" very well may not be a good D1 player. We see this along the DL and at S. ND simply cannot offer enough of the great athletes at those positions overcome injury.

Also, at places like O$U and Bama these guys are full time athletes, the reality is they are semi-pro. They spend their days working out or practicing. ND players simply cannot compete with that. So while the ND player is busy studying or in class the O$U player is in the gym, going over his playbook or practicing his technique.

ND is in a 100m race and other schools are starting 10m ahead.

 

[perseverare]

joining the Ivy League is not such a horrible move. ND could also join with similarly positioned (ideologically speaking) universities to form a competitive conference.

What Java points out is very valid. In eyes of some ND had a banner recruiting day at Jr. day, yet doubtful any of those commits would be found on the roster at Bama or tOSU or LSU or.... That day to me represented a jolt of reality.

Another point Java makes is conditioning. We see how at pro day workouts the ND players look so much further along in conditioning after having spent several weeks at camps solely devoted to enhancing their physical conditioning and adding speed. Consider that there are teams that do that all day, every day from time the athlete arrives on campus!

 

[TheDecker]

joining the Ivy League is not such a horrible move. ND could also join with similarly positioned (ideologically speaking) universities to form a competitive conference.

What Java points out is very valid. In eyes of some ND had a banner recruiting day at Jr. day, yet doubtful any of those commits would be found on the roster at Bama or tOSU or LSU or.... That day to me represented a jolt of reality.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong about every single thing you post???

David Adams - Offers from Ohio State and LSU (plus schools like Florida, Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska, Penn State, Stanford, etc.)
Pete Werner - Offer from Ohio State (plus schools like Tennessee, Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska, Penn State, etc.)
Drew White - Offers from Ohio State and LSU (plus schools like Michigan, Wisconsin, Missouri, Arkansas, etc.)

So in actuality, ever LB recruit we got on Junior Day had offers from both Ohio State and Michigan and 2/3 had offers from LSU (plus all had a mountain of other quality offers)
And that's why people were excited about our Junior Day LB haul...........

It's interesting how your "shot of reality" is actually complete and total bullsh*t..........lol

 

[Java65]

Do you ever get tired of being wrong about every single thing you post???

David Adams - Offers from Ohio State and LSU (plus schools like Florida, Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska, Penn State, Stanford, etc.)
Pete Werner - Offer from Ohio State (plus schools like Tennessee, Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska, Penn State, etc.)
Drew White - Offers from Ohio State and LSU (plus schools like Michigan, Wisconsin, Missouri, Arkansas, etc.)

So in actuality, ever LB recruit we got on Junior Day had offers from both Ohio State and Michigan and 2/3 had offers from LSU (plus all had a mountain of other quality offers)
And that's why people were excited about our Junior Day LB haul...........

It's interesting how your "shot of reality" is actually complete and total bullsh*t..........lol

You miss the point. For every one of those guys you mention O$U get's 2 or 3 of the same quality player.

Also, 3 years from now while Adams, Werner and White are busy in class O$U players will be in the gym or going over their playbook.

 

[Java65]

joining the Ivy League is not such a horrible move. ND could also join with similarly positioned (ideologically speaking) universities to form a competitive conference.

What Java points out is very valid. In eyes of some ND had a banner recruiting day at Jr. day, yet doubtful any of those commits would be found on the roster at Bama or tOSU or LSU or.... That day to me represented a jolt of reality.

Another point Java makes is conditioning. We see how at pro day workouts the ND players look so much further along in conditioning after having spent several weeks at camps solely devoted to enhancing their physical conditioning and adding speed. Consider that there are teams that do that all day, every day from time the athlete arrives on campus!

At some point ND has to make the decision to compete in Div 1 or join the Ivy League. There is now a generation of CFB fans that know nothing more of ND football than a solid program that has a great year ever 2-3 years.

As fewer and fewer people become fans, TV ratings will drop, fewer sales of merchandise, etc. As you point out at one point Army and Navy were CFB powerhouses and time dismantled that.

 

[hvillebill]

You miss the point. For every one of those guys you mention O$U get's 2 or 3 of the same quality player.

Also, 3 years from now while Adams, Werner and White are busy in class O$U players will be in the gym or going over their playbook.

So, what are you suggesting? That ND have players not attend class in order to compete?

If other teams are doing that, then let them. If you win by cheating, then you've won nothing.

 

[deadirishpoet]

At some point ND has to make the decision to compete in Div 1 or join the Ivy League. There is now a generation of CFB fans that know nothing more of ND football than a solid program that has a great year ever 2-3 years.

As fewer and fewer people become fans, TV ratings will drop, fewer sales of merchandise, etc. As you point out at one point Army and Navy were CFB powerhouses and time dismantled that.

Josh Adams is a beast and at some point be in the Heisman conversation

 

[TheDecker]

You miss the point. For every one of those guys you mention O$U get's 2 or 3 of the same quality player.

Also, 3 years from now while Adams, Werner and White are busy in class O$U players will be in the gym or going over their playbook.

I'm not the one missing the point.....you are.

Perse decides to start bemoaning the Junior Day....pointing out the recruits we're excited about would never get offes from "Ohio State, LSU, or Alabama"...............and in fact they all have some of those exact offers and more besides

If you want to argue "I think Ohio State, Alabama, and LSU recruit a greater volume of high level talented than ND does"......that's fine. We can have that discussion and for the most part you'd be correct
But that's a totally separate point than what I was responding to

Also,your argument doesn't preclude Notre Dame from beating those teams or finishing head of them for playoffs or NC's (at all), it just makes it more challenging to do so

 

[Java65]

I'm not the one missing the point.....you are.

Perse decides to start bemoaning the Junior Day....pointing out the recruits we're excited about would never get offes from "Ohio State, LSU, or Alabama"...............and in fact they all have some of those exact offers and more besides

If you want to argue "I think Ohio State, Alabama, and LSU recruit a greater volume of high level talented than ND does"......that's fine. We can have that discussion and for the most part you'd be correct
But that's a totally separate point than what I was responding to

Also,your argument doesn't preclude Notre Dame from beating those teams or finishing head of them for playoffs or NC's (at all), it just makes it more challenging to do so

Yea, I reread what Perse wrote and maybe you are correct.

But I am completely correct on our ability to compete with those teams. I would think the beatings we took at the hands of Bama and O$U should be more than enough evidence to prove we aren't in their league. Is it impossible for ND to win a NC? No, but it is extremely unlikely.