Paul Chryst fired by Wisconsin

[jerbach]

What?? What do you mean it can't be explained? Yeah, it most certainly can be explained. The offense was complete shit, visibly so, and we didn't score and move the ball enough to win the game. The OL was particularly ineffective, and over the course of a sixty minute game, you could end up losing even to a nothing opponent, if you simply cannot get first downs or score enough points.

And that's what happened. I just explained it. It's not some sort of mystical experience that defied the laws of reality. In fact, not only did I just explain it, IT'S ALL EVERYONE WAS TALKING ABOUT in the entire CFB universe, how bad ND looks and how terrible their offense is, just like it was shitty against tOSU. Meaning it was two games in a row when the offense was really bad and ineffective, and throw in the Cal game, certainly the first half was just as futile. And all normal, sober cool heads and observers noticed it and commented on it appropriately.

So do you understand now? Is there some reason you feel compelled to characterize the Marshall loss as some kind of impenetrable mystery? Or were you just being facetious?

I was at the game and saw all the problems that you expertly pointed out. But there was something else missing that I almost never had experienced during all the games I had attended at ND (even when a student and the 2 and 7 season in 1963). Call it what you will (“spirit””mindset”, “will” whatever) the players were not mentally in the game at all. They should have been running through a brick wall for the coach that they wanted.

 

[Joedaly]

Totally. That does sort of give them political cover to do it. You can't be getting hammered by Bret Bielema like that. I don't know if there's bad blood or not between him and Wisky, but that sure gives them an excuse...

It sounds like he burned a lot of bidges on his way out to Arkansas and is hated there now which made the beatdown on Saturday the last straw.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I was at the game and saw all the problems that you expertly pointed out. But there was something else missing that I almost never had experienced during all the games I had attended at ND (even when a student and the 2 and 7 season in 1963). Call it what you will (“spirit””mindset”, “will” whatever) the players were not mentally in the game at all. They should have been running through a brick wall for the coach that they wanted.

I'm just glad it looks like we're not going to go 4-8, which was a total legit concern after the first three weeks. And the offense seems to have clicked, and all of a sudden looks like it hasn't missed a beat. Because it was looking like, IMO at least, it was time to go 'Oh shit'.....

As far as what you perceived from the stands, I don't really like the sound of that too much, as far as MF goes, as the HC in charge of team morale and focus and the various intangible elements, that's not a great sign. Alluding to the whole being the players' friend thing, which is generally not considered a good dynamic in sports, or certainly not in the blood and guts sport of tackle football, where too much fraternizing probably isn't the move.....

 

[savvyandsassier]

It sounds like he burned a lot of bidges on his way out to Arkansas and is hated there now which made the beatdown on Saturday the last straw.

I can believe that. He definitely looks like the sort of dude who's capable of some bridge burning. I'm not a close follower of BB, but he never came off as especially diplomatic....

 

[jerbach]

I'm just glad it looks like we're not going to go 4-8, which was a total legit concern after the first three weeks. And the offense seems to have clicked, and all of a sudden looks like it hasn't missed a beat. Because it was looking like, IMO at least, it was time to go 'Oh shit'.....

As far as what you perceived from the stands, I don't really like the sound of that too much, as far as MF goes, as the HC in charge of team morale and focus and the various intangible elements, that's not a great sign. Alluding to the whole being the players' friend thing, which is generally not considered a good dynamic in sports, or certainly not in the blood and guts sport of tackle football, where too much fraternizing probably isn't the move.....

Even Lou stated that teams can come out flat at times during the season. A comparable game to the Marshall one and what was missing in ours was the Georgia/Missouri game during which Georgia was behind and outplayed most of the game, but found the 'will" (if you will) to win at the end. I guess our game in Florida with Miami was another example in which the team "wasn't there". It can happen.

 

[Irishjohn68]

I'll just go by the facts

Knute Rockne was better than Ara and he was a first year guy

And the multitude of other elite head coaches across the country. Some of the greatest ever

Rockne was 100 years ago. And nice way to cherry pick.

 

[Golson5]

Rockne was 100 years ago. And nice way to cherry pick.

I named over 30 first year coaches that are all time greats or top coaches right now. Thats not cherry picking. Thats facts.

Ara was 50 years ago..... by the way

 

[mbd11]

I named over 30 first year coaches that are all time greats or top coaches right now. Thats not cherry picking. Thats facts.

Ara was 50 years ago..... by the way

At Notre Dame, generally coaches who had previous HC experience have been our best coaches. Rockne was an exception, but he coached 100 years ago.

 

[Golson5]

At Notre Dame, generally coaches who had previous HC experience have been our best coaches. Rockne was an exception, but he coached 100 years ago.

Was it because they didnt have previous head coaching experience or because they werent good head coaches?

How did Weis do after ND now that he had head coach experience? Not well, he got fired. How did Bob Davie do after ND now that he had head coach experience? Not well, he got fired

How did Ty Willingham do with expereience in between Bob and Weis? Not well. Why? Was it the expereience or was he had a poor head coach?

Coaching experience is nice to have, doesn't guarantee you will fail or succeed

 

[Golson5]

So Frost, Chryst and Dorrell all have gotten fired..... good thing they had all that prior head coaching experience going for them !

I forgot that Geoff Collins and Herm Edwards both got the boot this year as well. Both with head coach experience.

So that's 5 guys who couldn't get the job done with previous head coaching experience......

 

[savvyandsassier]

Who the hell would ever bring up Kanoot Rockne's name as a meaningful reference or comparison for just about anything? I mean god bless the guy, and thank you again for inventing the forward pass like that, that was some good looking out....

But your argument must be as weak and feeble as a toadstool if you're invoking the name of Knute frickin' Rockne for anything other than an answer to a Trivial Pursuit question....

 

[Irishjohn68]

I don’t understand what is so hard for you to understand. Head coaches at ND with no prior experience are not good. ND is a completely different animal.

If your a fan of ND you would understand.

 

[Golson5]

Who the hell would ever bring up Kanoot Rockne's name as a meaningful reference or comparison for just about anything? I mean god bless the guy, and thank you again for inventing the forward pass like that, that was some good looking out....

But your argument must be as weak and feeble as a toadstool if you're invoking the name of Knute frickin' Rockne for anything other than an answer to a Trivial Pursuit question....

The guy that built this football program to what it is today. Without Knute, we may be a Stanford.

Regardless, I have probably over 30 coaches, a lot of them hall of gamers and some of the greatest coaches of all time. That's plenty enough evidence, including the great Knute Rockne

 

[Golson5]

I don’t understand what is so hard for you to understand. Head coaches at ND with no prior experience are not good. ND is a completely different animal.

If your a fan of ND you would understand.

Nonsense.

First question, was Knute Rockne a good coach?

Second question, was any of the other first year coaches we hired here good head coaches outside of ND?

The ND is a different animal point is garbage. Put Ryan Day or Dabo or Kirby here and they would have been great.

If you can coach, you can coach

 

[Irishjohn68]

Nonsense.

First question, was Knute Rockne a good coach?

Second question, was any of the other first year coaches we hired here good head coaches outside of ND?

The ND is a different animal point is garbage. Put Ryan Day or Dabo or Kirby here and they would have been great.

If you can coach, you can coach

You need a history lesson.

 

[mbd11]

Was it because they didnt have previous head coaching experience or because they werent good head coaches?

How did Weis do after ND now that he had head coach experience? Not well, he got fired. How did Bob Davie do after ND now that he had head coach experience? Not well, he got fired

How did Ty Willingham do with expereience in between Bob and Weis? Not well. Why? Was it the expereience or was he had a poor head coach?

Coaching experience is nice to have, doesn't guarantee you will fail or succeed

The ones we hired were successful before, though.

 

[Golson5]

You need a history lesson.

Couldn't answer the question because you know it makes you look wrong

So what if MF is successful here? That will blow your ridiculous argument up right?

I guess we will see

Because there is no pressure at Georgia in the SEC and no pressure at Ohio State following Urban and Tressell. And no pressure at Oklahoma following Stoops. Notre Dame is so different that we're the only place there is pressure for head coaches

 

[Irishjohn68]

Couldn't answer the question because you know it makes you look wrong

So what if MF is successful here? That will blow your ridiculous argument up right?

I guess we will see

Because there is no pressure at Georgia in the SEC and no pressure at Ohio State following Urban and Tressell. And no pressure at Oklahoma following Stoops. Notre Dame is so different that we're the only place there is pressure for head coaches

I’ll listen to Ara before I listen to you.

 

[Golson5]

The ones we hired were successful before, though.

Like Ty Willingham and Joe Kuharich and Hugh Devore?

 

[Golson5]

I’ll listen to Ara before I listen to you.

I'll listen to Knute and all the other great head coaches before I listen to one guy

So because Ara said that there is no possible way for MF to succeed? Is impossible because Ara said that 50 years ago.

I guess we shouldn't even play the test of the year then. Let's cancel the season. It's impossible. I dont know how we beat Mack Brown and all his experience. Miracle

 

[mbd11]

Like Ty Willingham and Joe Kuharich and Hugh Devore?

Leahy, Parseghian, Holtz, Kelly.

And Willingham did have some success at Stanford - took them to the Rose Bowl. He seemed like a good hire at the time.

 

[Golson5]

Leahy, Parseghian, Holtz, Kelly

You said the ones hired before were successful? Were all of them that had hc experience successful or were the ones that were good coaches successful?

Thats the point you and others are missing. There is no guarantee of success hiring a coach with experience or with no experience.

If a guy can coach, he can coach. Period.

There's been more than enough examples of coaches who didn't need experience to prove that it is not a prerequisite for success. Being a good coach is

 

[mbd11]

You said the ones hired before were successful? Were all of them that had hc experience successful or were the ones that were good coaches successful?

Thats the point you and others are missing. There is no guarantee of success hiring a coach with experience or with no experience.

If a guy can coach, he can coach. Period.

There's been more than enough examples of coaches who didn't need experience to prove that it is not a prerequisite for success. Being a good coach is

There’s no guarantee, but the chances are better if they have a proven track record.

 

[Irishjohn68]

I'll listen to Knute and all the other great head coaches before I listen to one guy

So because Ara said that there is no possible way for MF to succeed? Is impossible because Ara said that 50 years ago.

I guess we shouldn't even play the test of the year then. Let's cancel the season. It's impossible. I dont know how we beat Mack Brown and all his experience. Miracle

You think Ara was talking about on field success only? Go listen or read about what Ara said about being the head coach at Notre Dame. Being the HC is more then on field success. Educate yourself.

 

[Rockne's Rambler]

Are you saying Marcus Freeman is good like that? What gives you that intel? Was it the great performance against Marshall? Don’t confuse likable with good. Our entire nation has an issue with that.

Your point is they win they win is correct, so find the guy that wins. How many weeks are you going absent from the board this time if BYU spanks us?

Who said Marcus Freeman is as good as Rockne? Was it Beachcardinal? I can't find the post.

 

[wi_hoosier]

Not that he's a great coach, but you wonder what's the hurry? Wisconsin is not going to land another Barry Alveraz anytime soon.

Big money donors were p'od about the 34-10 home loss to the former HC. There was also rumblings that Chryst was old school and didn't align much with NIL. There was also growing concern that their loved DC may be inline for a promotion very soon. Basically giving Leonard a test drive on leading the program.

 

[HDK]

West no chance, come on

Dr J he was the first high flyer, all respect, couldn't really dribble with his left hand well,couldnt pass like lebron, no

Bird, love him, I'm a celtic fan, not nearly the athlete of Lebron or defender, nor durable, no. But he's in my next tier. Def above dr and west

Kobe, lebron was better, better passer, better team player, more efficient.

Wilt, played in an era where there were only 8 teams and he towered over everyone. Only won 2 titles.

Mj Lebron Magic Kareem Russell is the first 5

You missed on Shaq Duncan Olajuwon and Oscar who were better than some you had mentioned

Don't forget Elgin Baylor.

 

[IrishBeer]

Who said Marcus Freeman is as good as Rockne? Was it Beachcardinal? I can't find the post.

Good enough that he can’t beat Marshall and we are getting outranked by the likes of Kansas, Syracuse, and Wale Forest. Programs that haven’t landed a recruiting class in the top 25 in the modern era. He’s a likable figure, but he needs to prove he can win. Nice guys finish last.

 

[Golson5]

There’s no guarantee, but the chances are better if they have a proven track record.

Sometimes. Not necessarily though

 

[Golson5]

You think Ara was talking about on field success only? Go listen or read about what Ara said about being the head coach at Notre Dame. Being the HC is more then on field success. Educate yourself.

Yep. So cancel the season. No chance at success. It's impossible.

 

[Golson5]

Don't forget Elgin Baylor.

Great player. A step below imo

 

[mbd11]

Sometimes. Not necessarily though

Most of the time, at Notre Dame. ND's a tough job, and I think that previous experience is very valuable. That being said, I hope Freeman bucks the trend, and I think he can.

 

[Golson5]

Most of the time, at Notre Dame. ND's a tough job, and I think that previous experience is very valuable. That being said, I hope Freeman bucks the trend, and I think he can.

Maybe in the past. Every big time program is similar now in terms of pressure. It's no cake walk in the sec and Kirby did it.

We shall see. I think Freeman will be fine

 

[Irishjohn68]

Great player. A step below imo

Post less.

 

[Golson5]

Post less.

He is very rarely ranked inside any outlets or publications top 15. He's in the 12 to 20 range type player

Don't worry about what I do. Worry about yourself

 

[ftnfan62]

The Marshall game is an out of character experience that can't be explained - perhaps even by those on the inside. It is too early to make any decisions about Marcus Freeman. I am going to Las Vegas and I truly expect that it will be worthwhile.

About as much as losing to Tulsa. Similar game. Last minute pick. I’m heading to Vegas as well. Go IRISH!

 

[banmate6]

There’s no guarantee, but the chances are better if they have a proven track record.

Exactly. It is interesting that so many don't consider this from a statistical perspective. And don't classify it within date ranges and other factors.

I bet a survey would produce the following:

• A 1st time coach has higher odds of a poorer record than a winning record.
• More so as you move farther into the future.
• More so the bigger the program with bigger expectations.

I know for sure this is the case as ND. Start from Faust. Holtz and CBK stand out from him, Davie, Willingham, and Weis. So far MF is 2-2, with a lot of season left to play. Although things look better last 2 games, nothing is certain, with tough games coming.

And by the way, a coach just like a player doesn't suddenly become good. So many variables factor. Hence the need to gain some insights with statistics, which aren't the be all end all...but like I said, they provide insights.

In this case, a 1st time coach at a big program like ND is more likely to fail than succeed.

 

[tbonesays]

Alvarez had down stretches at Wisky after going 10-1-1 he had 4 season were Wisky finished 8-4 or worse
He had a great 3 year stretch where Wisky won 2 Rose Bowls then had an 8 year stretch where his highest ranking was 13 but 4 of the years they finished unranked.
Chyrst won a Cotton Bowl and the Orange Bowl and his record was better than Alvarez but ok

No one ever mentions his Cotton Bowl opponent, Western Michigan University, Wiscy won by one score. I will give Chryst credit for the Orange Bowl win over Miami as it is a home game for the Canes, even though the 17 Canes went off a ledge after drubbing us. And his sleep through bowl record was good.

I guess Wiscy just wants to get occasional upsets of Ohio State such as Iowa and Purdue recently have. The Badgers just were not competitive in the big ones.

 

[d1042]

Who said Marcus Freeman is as good as Rockne? Was it Beachcardinal? I can't find the post.

Brandon

 

[d1042]

Don't forget Elgin Baylor.

they even named a University after him!